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Flaggers are getting worse all the time
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Posted by: oldguy---------------------

The last couple years one of my biggest complaints in amateur racing is the quality of flaggers. I realize almost all are volunteers and I applaud them for their efforts because without them weekend racing would not occur. This being said I and my wife have spent hundreds of weekends flagging and trying to train flaggers but the quality seems to be dropping.
Tonight watching the Milleville round on TV I see why. The Official AMA flaggers are even worse. The crash between Hamblin and Reed which could easily have ended either racers season to me falls solely on the flagger.
At the race we were seated in a location with an unobstructed view of Reed when he went down and of course we watched him struggling to get his bike restarted. While watching I commented that the flagger was back of the lip on the uphill and the riders couldn't see him. The broadcast tonight isn't clear on whether I was correct but what I missed at the race was the flaggers reaction- he abandonned his post and wandered back to look at the carnage. The next thing he did was drop his flag on the ground and start trying to pull the bikes apart.
In my mind the flagger is there to protect not only the downed rider but every other rider on the track and here this idiot is pulling bikes apart. You would think that the OFFICIAL AMA FLAGGER who has been placed at a critical track location would know his job. This was not one of the local hired flaggers (they only wear a Tshirt designating them as track crew) as evidenced by the uniform.

Posted by: YZ165---------------------

That flagger is about as sharp as a bowl of mashed potatoes.

Posted by: DanAKAL---------------------

Being a woods rider and still loving the sport I do a lot of flagging for our MX since I'm not racing. I usually have the checkered flag and stop watch though. We often use local sports teams and organizations as corner flaggers. There is the occasional problem with the soccer or hockey teams but more often than not they have very quick flags and are on top of almost every incident. I take them through about a 15 minute explanation of what is expected of them and if they error then error on the side of caution. All in all I have been very pleased with them. These children, 12 - 16, simply love being involved.

There is one very great stand out. I have seen none better than the Young Marines (USMC ROTC). After discussing things like a Drill Instructor for about 15 minutes these are simply the best corner flaggers that I have been acquainted with. They are more than aware that if there are fifteen riders on the track and one goes down then they have fourteen more to look out for. The down rider will have plenty of help. There would have to be a 100,000 enemy soldiers, 300 tanks, and fourteen bombers bearing down for them to desert their post. They are very aware of their surroundings and everything that is going on in their field of view. A huge WELL DONE and Thank You to the Alaska Young Marines!!

Perhaps we could get the USMC to teach the AMA flaggers?

Posted by: whyzee---------------------

Dave,
ya had me at ... "The last couple years" ...

Man I was so pissed seeing that last night. not upset that Chad could not get back on the track and regain his 2nd place, but furious that the flagger was in the WRONG location. Then he left his post to move the bikes. I would not want to see another bike hit anyone, not even him.
I would like to see the flagger fined and fired. I am sitting here shaking my head at this.
How stupid.

Posted by: James---------------------

I am not disagreeing about the flagger, but I was watching and wondering how much effort it would have taken for Chad to roll backwards off of the track instead of sitting there across it while he kicked his bike. He must have known he was in a precarious spot because he was keeping an eye on the traffic coming over the hill.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldguy

The last couple years one of my biggest complaints in amateur racing is the quality of flaggers. I realize almost all are volunteers and I applaud them for their efforts because without them weekend racing would not occur. (they only wear a Tshirt designating them as track crew) as evidenced by the uniform.

oldguy.

This is a subject that really gets me going.

Not only flaggers but all course workers need to know what they are out there for. A course worker meeting before the races would be a good thing maybe?

A few years ago at the start of a GP, there were 4 of us running in tight formation for the lead. We were on a long straight section of the course where the terrain rises and drops off. Very fast section, pinned in 5th. Coming off the tops of the rises, you would catch air for about 20 or 30 feet on the down side.

This was on the first lap and when we came off the top of one of those rises there was a course worker on a little TTr crusing down the middle of the course. This was a very large fellow on a very little bike. First place guy missed him. Second place guy went to the right and missed him. About that time, he looked over his shoulder to see who was coming and pulled right across the course in front of me.

Having just landed, I only had a few feet to do something. I had the choice of hitting him or running off the course. Since the course was on the side of a hill and it was a long way down, I centerpunched the guy and we both tumbled down the hill. Turned out he was a course worker that was delivering water to the flaggers. Didn't have a clue that the race had started or the fact that he was on the course.

Neither one of us was hurt and I was able to get back in the race after rippin the guy a new one. Talk about being pissed.

IMO, it's up to the Promoter to insure that all the course workers know what is going on at all times. They are there for our safety not just for the 'T' shirt. It was bad enough getting taken out after a good start, but at the speeds we were running it could have been very ugly.

Rant mode off.

Posted by: samham---------------------

OldGuy, I agree. We were at Millville as well and watched the whole thing unfold. It was sickening when you knew what was going to happen and the possible consequences. I'm not sure where to turn to in order to bring about a change. Writing the AMA? Flaggers have to be responsible and so does the AMA as it's their event. If "locals" don't cut it, they need to bring qualified flaggers to the events. The AMA also needs to enforce rules. We were on the back stretch opposite the big uphill and a rider went down over a triple....First of all it took forever for the falggers to get out there as well as medics,,,and once they did, a few riders (Walker and Ramsey) continued to triple thru the section landing within feet of the downed rider getting attention. They should have penalized points or laps everytime they tripled under the yellow flag.

Posted by: trakkerman---------------------

I was outraged by the brain fade on the flaggers part. Another thing I saw that seemed odd and nerve racking was when Alessi seized his engine on a hill and then turned around in the opposite direction and rolled down the hill as (it appeared) riders were flying over his head.

That should get looked at also!

Posted by: oldguy---------------------

Samham I think you sitting right by us. We were at the corner after the triple where Alessi went down first moto. I think the downed rider you are referring to was Grant and yes all of the top 6 riders (except Bubba) kept tripling that jump into the corner.
I also noticed several instances where the flagger beyond the downed rider was waving his flag because he could see the downed rider. Talk about screwing up a guys race- go past a downed rider with no flags out then see a flag slow down and there isn't any rider down.

My rant on the flaggers began at the riders meeting Friday when the flag instructions were given.
A yellow flag use caution but you could jump. A waving yellow flag meant the track was obstructed and track personel were on the track so slow down no passing or doubling. Problem was every time a flag went out the worker waved it all over the place- just inviting everyone to ignore them. My son was so fedup when he came off the track because on one lap he lost a position because he slowed and didn't jump and got passed by the rider that did

Posted by: showtime586---------------------

How about what happened to Vohland a few years back at Unadilla?
The problem we have at the local level is track operators are always seeking flaggers from the stands. These kids want to make a few bucks (few being the operative word) and jump out there without any instructions on what to do. Instinctively, they go and try to help a downed rider, instead of positioning themselves to signal other riders of the situation. I remember one real bad crash where the flagger was a 12 year old girl. She freaked and came unglued. We had to run out on the track and get her away from the situation before we could address the real situation. I think the operator paid his flaggers 20 bucks for the entire day. I thought it was bullchit to pay someone so little for such an important job. I excerised my opinion by not riding their anymore. I think you can get quality help if you are willing to pay them something.

Posted by: Rider 007---------------------

Oldguy,
Glad to see someone else has noticed the lack of competency in flaggers, even at the top levels of MX and SX.

The incident that first got my attention was the Atlanta SX (94 I believe). It was the 125 class and a rider had gone down on the backside of the triples, to the left. The flagger walks out onto the top of the first jump and diplays the yellow flag. Problem was, HE WAS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE JUMP!

Pichon was still a ways from this section but it was clear that if the rider and bike weren't removed from the track he was going to be directed right into the downed rider.
My friends thought I overreacting when I started saying (loudly) that we're fixing to have a big mess. As Pichon got closer, it was obvious what was going to happen.
I stood up and started screaming for the flagger to move to the other side of the jump (fat chance of being heard, it was just my natural reaction).

I'm sure you've seen the clip of what happened next. Pichon took off on the left side of the triple and when he could see what he was about to land on, he pushed the bike down and stepped over the bars, ejecting at the height of his jump. He hit the ground so hard that his head whipped forward with such velocity that his goggles flew off. Unbelievable whiplash.
He tumbled and then jumped up, only to pass out and collapse. No doubt a delayed reaction to the headsnap.
It was a miracle that someone wasn't killed.

Ever since then I tend to watch the flaggers at the track to see what goes on. It isn't pretty and Milville was another example, only more high profile.

Something really bad is going to happen if the AMA doesn't step up and fix this. And then they're going to be sued for negligence.

The worst part is that it could have been avoided.

Posted by: FritoBandito---------------------

Too bad we all were there and didn't even know. I would have said hello. Anyway, I was standing in the corner where that rider went down also. That rider was Josh Grant , I think. He was knocked out for 5 minutes they said and it looked like they did very little to protect him from the bikes coming over that triple. As for the Reed crash, I was in about the same location and the video that is on TFS site-Mototalk. came from me. If the flagger would have been a little more aggressive in telling Reed to back off the track, it would not have happened. Both riders were at fault to some degree. Just glad it turned out OK. Maybe I can meet you guys next year.

Posted by: Jon K.---------------------

OK; a show of hands.

How many of you guys doing the griping have volunteered as flaggers? And I don't mean for a minute or two, I'm talking about all damn day!

Oldguy, you have indicated that you have done just that, and of course we (at least I do!!) appreciate it!

By and large it is a thankless job.

And while I agree that flaggers should show a degree of competence, you won't EVER see me flaming any of them. They are, after all, out there doing a tough job. 99% of them are doing it well.

Jonny

Posted by: Ryone---------------------

Jon K,

Agreed it may be a tough job out there flagging all day, but when serious injuries and possibly lives are at risk, incompetence is NOT an option. They're not much different from lifeguards in my opinion. It's not very hard (physically or mentally) to wave a yellow flag when you see a fallen rider or any other danger on the track. It just takes a level head, and a person that reacts well to the circumstances.

Not that it's all the flaggers fault, but I agree with the majority here in saying that ineptitude of flaggers is inexcusable.

Posted by: rickyd---------------------

I think the flaggers have a tough job, lots of action on a MX/SX/ArenaCross track.. Hats off too somebody that volunteers too work during a race.. The flagger did mess up, but he is human and i bet he wont do it (mess up) again.. We all make mistakes..
Unfortunately i saw a flagger get killed at the SF arenacross on the amateur day, took a wheel too the chest as a bike came off a jump, the rider was out of control, landed, jerked the throttle and wheelied into the flagger

Rick

Posted by: gasgasman---------------------

The biggest problem with flaggers is, they're MX fans. They want to watch the race and not pay attention. I've seen guys stick their flags in the ground and watch the racing.
You would think that with the millions they make from the races, they could hire a group of people that could travel the circuit and flag events.

Posted by: showtime586---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon K.

OK; a show of hands.

How many of you guys doing the griping have volunteered as flaggers? And I don't mean for a minute or two, I'm talking about all damn day!

Oldguy, you have indicated that you have done just that, and of course we (at least I do!!) appreciate it!

By and large it is a thankless job.

And while I agree that flaggers should show a degree of competence, you won't EVER see me flaming any of them. They are, after all, out there doing a tough job. 99% of them are doing it well.

Jonny

We had a flagger shortage last night and instead of doing administrative functions, I flagged. The one thing that I do different than most flaggers that are recruited from the stands is that I don't run to help a downed rider. My job is to warn other riders that someone is down, not to render help to the rider that is down. As soon as the coast is clear, I can possibly help remove the bike from the track, but my first priority is to make sure the other riders are aware of the situation.

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Flaggers are getting worse all the time

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