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OT: Home mill/lathe solution

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Posted by: Papakeith---------------------

I've been tossing around the idea of getting one of those home/light industrial 3-in-1 mill/lathe/drill machines for a while now.
I'm looking for input from anyone who either has one of these units, or has researched getting one like I am doing now.

What are the pitfalls of these machines? Who are the major players in this market? Would I be better off saving my money and buying seperate machines?

Any information is appreciated.


Posted by: KiwiBird---------------------

If you have the room for separate machines that is the way to go.

I researched them all and wound up with a Shop Task.


Posted by: mtk---------------------

Hit the usenet newsgroup rec.crafts.metalworking. That's the place to go for home shop info.


Posted by: MONKEYMOUSE---------------------

Check out a company called WET they have a mill that is very nice and rather inexpensive, can be used as a drill press as well. Have one at school and it is a dream to use.


Posted by: WaltCMoto---------------------

A friend of mine has one, but I cant remember which one. When I saw it, my first impresion was that it was a glorified drill press. It seemed rather light duty for milling operations(IMHO), but Im used to full sized machinery. Lathe seemed kinda small too. He says it now makes a nice clothes rack. Overall Id say pass on it, unless its light duty projects you have in mind.


Posted by: Papakeith---------------------

Kiwi, there are three cosiderations in my mind.

'
The projects I'm looking to attempt are varied. Generally, I just want to have the tools available to me to create stuff that my brain comes up with. One thing in particular I want to make, is my own AR receiver. I have a bunch of little things I'd like to attempt to make too. Basically, I want to make chunks of metal into metal shavings.

I'll check out the newsgroup and the manufacturers mentioned. The machine on the top of my list right now is a Smithy. What made you choose a Shop Task?


Posted by: mtk---------------------

Making an AR receiver on ANY machine is quite a challenge. You'd best be a master machinist. Doing on on a 3-in-1 means you'd best be a machining god.

This ain't woodworking. Holding precision tolerances is a serious challenge and doing it on a crappy machine makes it even harder.


Posted by: Papakeith---------------------

MTK, Thank you for your viewpoint. I completely understand that I won't be churning out precision products the second I lay hands on the first machine I come across. I am aware of the challenge it presents. I'm not in this to make money. It will be a hobby, for fun, relaxing. For me, it's all about learning a process. Whatever I make I will be learning a new skill set. That alone intrigues me. Even if I do end up making a paper weight. Don't focus on the receiver. I'll save that for a week or two after I get the mill set up and I'm familiar with it.

Machining God? It's doubtful I'll need to be that good. More likely it takes someone who can read a blueprint/schematic/layout or whatever they call them in machine shops , follow setup proceedures, and read a micrometer and a caliper. Then again, it's something I've never done, so who knows. . you could be spot on.

I agree that none of it is possible on a junk machine unless I possess some higher power. That's why I've laid the question out here. With the limited space and power availability I presently have, do you have any suggestions for non-junk machines that might fit the bill?


Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtk
This ain't woodworking. Holding precision tolerances is a serious challenge and doing it on a crappy machine makes it even harder.


Keith: I want to ditto the above quote, but from the other side of the issue.

I would never buy a Shop Smith or any similar muti-task woodworking machine because they tend to do everything half ass and nothing well. Woodworking doesn't require the tolerances of metal working, but sometimes tolerances can be very unforgiving regardless of the material. At least metal doesn't have differential expansion across a face unless it is the result of heating. It really sucks to have a joint open up and creating one on an all purpose machine will almost guarantee failure.

Regarding space, I am in the space business! Have space will travel. I am going to be there in July for a few days I'll be glad to give you some ideas then on how to enlarge your space!


Posted by: KiwiBird---------------------

PK - I got my Shop Task in mid 90s and the other machines had a very close fit between the mill and the lathe so you really have to remove the chuck to use the mill for anything but the smallest stuff. It also has separate motors for lathe and mill. It is upgradeable to CNC. Spindle bore was the biggest. At the time it was the best available.

The mill is ok but requires careful use for any accuracy however the lathe is good for .001 or better in the correct hands (not mine - my precision flucuates quite a bit). As MTK says it'll take a while to achieve high end results but that's half the fun.


Posted by: Papakeith---------------------

Thanks Tony, I've got some ideas already cooking on the space requirements. Once I get Rooster (yard boy:laugh up here, and I can get some digging done. I'm planning on pouring a floor for my current garage. I'll also be pouring a slab on the backside of the garage for future expansion.

Regarding the 3 in 1 machines. For the money spent they don't seem to be as bad as you all seem to make them. Am I missing something here? Is it possible to get a usable Mill for similar money? I'm not looking to repair anything. I want to set up and go.


Posted by: Papakeith---------------------

kiwi, what made you choose a 3 in 1 over seperate machines?


Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papakeith
Regarding the 3 in 1 machines. For the money spent they don't seem to be as bad as you all seem to make them. Am I missing something here? Is it possible to get a usable Mill for similar money? I'm not looking to repair anything. I want to set up and go.


Papakeith.

I have to agree with everyone here on the 3 in 1 machines. A couple friends of mine have them and they only use them for drill presses now.

They are very limited in size. There is not very much travel on the beds and like Kiwi said, not much room between the bed and vertical chuck. Only good for very small parts.

May I recommend that you try to find someone selling an old American made mill and lathe. These are available through the recycler or maybe that online auction site. I purchased an old Index mill several years ago for $1,100.00. It belonged to an old machinest that took very good care of it. My first lathe was an old Logan that I paid about $ 600.00 for. Still use it today. I upgraded to a larger, brand new Aisian built lathe a few years ago but, my old American made lathe holds a closer tolerance. Many of the smaller lathes are 110V also.

If you find one, inspect it closely. You can usually tell the condition of a lathe by looking at the way's. Are they clean or do they have a bunch of nicks in them from abuse. Same with a mill. Look at the table. Operator abuse will show up here.

Most mills are 220V and many of them are 3 phase. If you have a dryer outlet in your house, it should be 220V and you could wire it off of that. If you find a mill that is 3 phase, you can buy a phase converter to run it off of single phase. You can usually find a 3 phase machine for less money than a single phase one since most people don't have 3 phase power.

If you are mostly interested in learning and making chips, an older machine may be the way to go. If you get serious about it you can always upgrade later and sell your old machine for at least what you paid for it.

Just my $ .02

Ol'89r


Posted by: KiwiBird---------------------

Space PK, had none.

Don't think the 3in1s are useless - my buddy made some stuff on my machine to .0005" but he IS a watchmaker and .0005 is what he ALWAYS works to.


Posted by: Papakeith---------------------

Thanks89r. You bring up another issue for me. If I do go hunting for a purpose built indrustial mill, how can someone like me (no knowledge of mills) go about the business of deciding if a machine is good. Now I know to look for damage on the bed. Other than that what should I be looking for? What model/manufacturers should I steer clear of. I really want to avoid rebuilding/ replacing bearings, pieces and parts.

Then there is the whole matter of tooling.

Uggghh.


Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papakeith
Thanks89r. You bring up another issue for me. If I do go hunting for a purpose built indrustial mill, how can someone like me (no knowledge of mills) go about the business of deciding if a machine is good. Now I know to look for damage on the bed. Other than that what should I be looking for?

Then there is the whole matter of tooling.

Uggghh.


PK.

The good thing about buying a used machine is they usually come with a lot of tooling. If you buy a bare machine, you can spend as much on tooling as the machine.

If the machine is set-up, take a piece of stock with you and machine it or have the owner machine it. Mic the piece and check if there is any taper or varience in the cut. If the machine is not set-up to run all you can do is inspect it and grab the quill and try to move it to see if there is any play. Play in the tables can usually be adjusted out.

Most machines built in the USA are pretty good. I would stay away from the Asian built machines, especially the early one's.



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