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Woods Racer - KTM, YZ, RM, or KX ??? Leaving the 4stroke!

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Posted by: PsychoCW---------------------

Week after week of pain from trying to quickly maneuver a 450EXC in the GNCC's and District 5/7 harescrambles has left me wanting a lighter and quicker handling bike. I do like the 2stroke KTMs but I did get the chance to ride a 2000 YZ and thought the handling and flickability was better than my old 98KTM MXC that I just sold. The engine surprised me with decent low end pull.

So the question is - how do the 2005/2006 bikes stack up? Sounds like the 2006 YZ an RM are even lighter and could be converted into pretty nice woods machines. And I'm sure the new KTM 2 strokes have improved since 98. Anyone had the opportunity to compare yet? Based on the specs the 2006 YZ250 is about 14 pounds lighter than the KTM250 EXC - seems like that would make quite a difference.


Thanks for any input!
happy trails

2004 KTM 450EXC - soon to be for sale


Posted by: biglou---------------------

Other than the stock gearing, my 05 YZ seemed to do pretty well on my first "trail ride" with it last weekend. Like you said, lots of low end grunt, IMO. Too bad they don't make the WR trans version of that bike.


Posted by: n_w t_ b_kes---------------------

The most common I see that are converted to woods riding are the kx and yz. I would say go for the YZ.


Posted by: PsychoCW---------------------

I'm definately leaning towards the YZ. Biglou - how tall is first on the YZ? Do you think its too much to gear down? Anyone know if you can get any aftermarket WR trans for those?

Thanks


Posted by: CR Swade---------------------

the 05 250E and the 98 250E have little in common, excpet for being made by KTM. The forks are drastically better, in fact stock are better than any revalves I have owned. The frame, steering head, rear suspension, engine, literally everything is so much better. Th engine is just about perfect in terms of delivery for woods work, plus the bike is substantially lighter than the older KTM's...nearly 10 lbs in full enduro trim. The handling is about as trail perfect as I have found...so much so that last year at the demo ride at DW I swore off converted MXer's and went back to KTM's.

As far as the YZ, yeah its good, but dollar for dollar it won't touch the KTM in really snotty/rough stuff. If you tried to ride a stock YZ at speed in the woods compared to a stock 04/05 EXC it would pretty much be a no-brainer. If you want to spend a bunch of cash on converting a MXer, the RM and YZ do very well, but when it gets nasty they still show their MX breeding.

Plain and simple, the 250E and 300E have evolved the engine to give high HP w/ a four stroke style delivery, but light two stroke handling and ultra light bike weight. Plus you don't have to drop another $1500 making it woods ready (tank, suspension, guards, 18" rear wheel, lighting coil/headlight). Lastly, in many states you can tag it, which came in nice this past week in Colorado riding in to little towns to fuel up after running nasty sidehill singletrack @ 13,000 ft...singletrack that requires a smooth bike and linear power w/ wide ratio tranny (low first gear and tall 5th, good for about 83-85mph).


Posted by: Matt R---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoCW
...thought the handling and flickability was better than my old 98KTM MXC that I just sold. The engine surprised me with decent low end pull.


Have you considered a GasGas EC250 (or dealer edition)? The GG's feel the way you describe. Their bikes have a smaller frame feel with a 250cc engine. I rode my friends KTM 250EXC and it feels stretched out and sluggish compared to mine. My GG handles great in tight woods and when the trail conditions are at their worst.


Posted by: biglou---------------------

I'm sure gearing it down would help. Not sure about how tall it is. I mentioned to someone that "I never thought 1st was all that tall until I hit the woods with it for the first time!" I'm mostly a track queen, and a slow one at that. I'm even worse in the woods, lol.


Posted by: funfactor1---------------------

On the YZ250 drop 1 tooth on the front add a flywheel weight and put on a set of dunlop 752 tires and you have a great woods bike.


Posted by: PsychoCW---------------------

Wow - had no idea about the WR400/426 tranny nor the Suzuki options. Thats great info ...thanks! The tranny really was the only issue I had no solution for. Have to see what the cost is for one of those. So does Suzuki use the 400 trans. for GNCC racing?

Well its pretty much down to the KTM300 or 250EXC and the YZ250(with many mods). I do want to look at the GG and the Husqvarna. I grew up racing Hodakas then a Husky so I have a fondness for the electric motor that old WR husky's had.

If you consider all the mods need to the YZ - I can see why KTM is hard to beat.


Posted by: PsychoCW---------------------

Hey funfactor...with the setup you describe do you think 1st is low enough for the tight woods or does it still require lots of clutch work? How do you like the alum frame?

Thanks


Posted by: funfactor1---------------------

1st is low enough without a lot of clutch work and the alum. frame is awsome. imo the alum. frame is the best looking as well.The YZ is really A great offroad bike as well as A track bike.


Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

I'm going to back-up the guy with the praise for Gas Gas. I rode one, and it's the sweetest "nasty trail" bike I EVER threw a leg over! However, I'm a contractor, have worked on my dealers and their employees homes, and am locked into that loyalty... and they only sell the Jap. bikes. I think the RM is really good, but like any MX bike, I've got a lot of $ in parts, motor work and labor, to make a "trail friendly" bike.
If you're free to make any decision... I would say, Gas Gas, KTM, Suzie, Yam, Kaw. In that order. Good luck...

Hey, CR Swade... thanks again, my son loves the boots!


Posted by: placelast---------------------

[QUOTE=PsychoCW]Wow - had no idea about the WR400/426 tranny nor the Suzuki options. Thats great info ...thanks! The tranny really was the only issue I had no solution for. Have to see what the cost is for one of those. So does Suzuki use the 400 trans. for GNCC racing? [QUOTE]

Plan on $350-500 to do the WR conversion if you use the whle set (not always required).

No, not for GNCC AFAIK but for the WORCS events, according to the short Cycle News blip (from my memory). I can look for it and retype it here in its entirety later.

I did talk to Webb once on the phone but it was about something else altogether.


Posted by: PsychoCW---------------------

After looking at the ratios I think I would try 4 and 5th first. That would take care of the top speed when gearing down a tooth on the sprocket.

I'm hoping to get a closer look at the 06 XC KTMs and the YZs this weekend. If not maybe there will be a few at the AWRCS in Boyers, PA in two weeks.

There's supposedly a GG dealer in Maryland but haven't been able to contact them yet.

I read a nice writeup on the mods to Hawk's bike and it sounds like a pretty easy setup for the main parts.

The new KTMs are pretty darn expensive! Maybe a leftover 05 YZ is the best route price wise. Doesn't sound like there are many significant changes between 05 and 06 on the YZ except maybe the forks. But I'll have to have them redone either way.

Thanks for all the info so far.....very helpful!


Posted by: CR Swade---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoCW
After looking at the ratios I think I would try 4 and 5th first. That would take care of the top speed when gearing down a tooth on the sprocket.

I'm hoping to get a closer look at the 06 XC KTMs and the YZs this weekend. If not maybe there will be a few at the AWRCS in Boyers, PA in two weeks.

There's supposedly a GG dealer in Maryland but haven't been able to contact them yet.

I read a nice writeup on the mods to Hawk's bike and it sounds like a pretty easy setup for the main parts.

The new KTMs are pretty darn expensive! Maybe a leftover 05 YZ is the best route price wise. Doesn't sound like there are many significant changes between 05 and 06 on the YZ except maybe the forks. But I'll have to have them redone either way.

Thanks for all the info so far.....very helpful!



Check around on the KTM pricing. I know Cycle Zone here in Kansas will ship bikes and usually beat many dealers pricing even after shipping. I bought from my dealer here in KC and got my bike for under $5800, which was a killer price on a EXC.

2 strokes, glad the boots worked out. You guys gonna be able to make the race and KTM demo ride we are putting on in September? Should be a good one


Posted by: placelast---------------------

Per Cycle News, Sept. 11, 2002:

“The Yoshimura Suzuki team showed up at the (WORCS) Gorman race with brand-new 2003 DRZ400s. The bikes, ridden by Mike Keidrowski, Steve Hatch, and Rodney Smith, were, of course, highly modified and punched out to 450cc. Keidrowski and Smith’s DRs use RM250 transmissions, while Hatch’s bike uses a standard DR tranny…”


Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

2 strokes, glad the boots worked out. You guys gonna be able to make the race and KTM demo ride we are putting on in September? Should be a good one[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the invite. Our club...(Midwest Trail Riders) puts on a a missoiri hare scrambles in the middle of Sep., then a poker run, then a halloween ride...... busy season coming up. 2-Strokes


Posted by: PsychoCW---------------------

Well stopped by a dealership and checked out 2005 YZ, RM, SX 250s. Sales guy races a YZ250 but likes the KTMs suspension and handling better. Interesting....I was always under the assumption that the YZ had the better suspension. Maybe not. He felt the KTM suspension kept the rear wheel planted better and just handled the roots and rocks better than the YZs (even after having the YZ susp setup). The 06 250XC sounds like a great machine. Didn't want to blow cash on another new bike but with the 2strokes no longer being sold after 2007 I figure I might as well get one while I can.

Thanks everyone for all the input. Have a very nice 2004 450EXC for sale now )

Now I just need to find a decent deal on a 06 250XC. This guy was talking around 7,200 which seems crazy.....I thought they were 6500 MSRP!!!


Posted by: truespode---------------------

I'm seriously considering a 2005 Dealer's Edition Gas Gas EC300.

They are soooo nice.

Ivan



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