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Federal oil reserves tapped.

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Posted by: cnielse5---------------------

just heard news that we are going to tap into feral oil reserves. now the party starts.


Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

Doesnt mean much. There are several refinerys on the Gulf Coast that are either not operating or operating at reduced output. We won't see relief for some time


Posted by: bike_rider250---------------------

doesnt mean much gas prices are going to be going up as much as 20 cents a L where i live


Posted by: MikeT---------------------

Like it even matters...... The gas companies will just say that it's not the oil that is in short supply, it is the lack of refineries. If that doesn't work, they will say it is the broken pipelines, or the pumps are down or the wind is blowing in the wrong direction or.......

They find any excuse.


Posted by: Uchytil---------------------

Last night here in western MI. Same gas that was in the tank one day ago when it was 50 cents cheaper. Price gouging - Feds need to cap it. Oil barons need to cap it. Reserves, LOL, what a joke. Nobody want refinerys in their backyard - another problem. Solution, build refinerys (where hurricanes and earthquakes are less likely to disrupt production), tap the north, make some fuel.


Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Senior is correct, it will not make much difference.

Rescinding the fuel blend requirements for gas and the sulphur regulations by the EPA Chief will help.

The BANANA theory is alive and well in America. Everyone loves the fuel available at the pump, but no one wants a well or a refinery anywhere near them.

The real solution has been staring us in the face for many years.

Conservation
More hybrid vehicles
More motorcycles
Ethanol
BioDiesel
Drilling in ANWR and all the places the lefties have kept out of bounds for way too many years
Exempting refineries from frivilous lawsuits that do nothing but line the pockets of lawyers
Reduce regulation roadblocks to building new refineries

there are bound to be more ...

The Flat Tax would be a good way to cut things loose


Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Anyone who knows me knows that I can be very opinionated and blunt at times. My loving wife is worse than me.
She also had it in her head that we were being price gouged at the pumps, when the price went from $2.69 to $3.19 a gal. overnight. I discussed this issue with her and voiced that there are several factors involved, and I'm not convinced we are being gouged at all. The last time we had a drastic change in gas prices there were several federal investigations into price gouging by the retailers and/or the oil companies. None of the investigations showed any price gouging at any level.

After the wife talked to TripleA, IN attorney general, and a couple of congressmen, she too was convinced that there is indeed no price gouging going on by the prices we have seen.
She was given some explinations that she apparently completely understood and now agrees with. (oh, if it were only that easy for ME to convince her of anything...lol...)

Folks, my take is that there is no price gouging. In fact, this issue has nothing to do with price other than it is a deterant from buying gas. Yes, a deterant.
The problem is supply. There is a shortage of refined products.
When we have a shortage and a high demand, prices always soar. It's that nature of the free market, not simply a matter of big business taking advantage of you and I. Even though some would politicize the situation and have you THINK that you are being gouged by the big oil guys in Washington DC.

Government regulation and restriction have throttled the oil industry to a point that they cannot keep up with current demand. Even when the flow of crude was untouched, there is no way for the current level of production in the US to keep up.
So when a catastrophe hits, and slows the crude flow, the already stiffled refinery becomes even more stiffled, adding to the increase of price.

The release of some of the federal reserve is only a means to keep some crude flowing. The reserve isn't gas, it's crude oil. It still needs refined.
So we are back to the stiffling of the refineries by government evironmental protection regualtions.
With the lifting of many of the current restrictions, prices will fall. Maybe not at the rate we want them to, but they will level out.

I think what we are seeing is more of a "rationing" of gas, rather than a price boom.
When supply is down and demand high, we can either offer the product at lower prices...which means that the public will buy until it is gone.
By raising the price, there will be some at the lower end of the chain that will not buy, or not be able to buy at the elevated price, this allows more product to be available.
But the bottom line is, there is only so much product available, period.
We can either ration the amount of gasoline that everyone wants at a lower price, or ration by raising the price. In any event, when there is a high demand and only so much product available, we much chose the best of two evils. Rationing the amount, or elevate prices for a natural rationing.

Sure you will immediately have the libs scream that the poor will be shut out if the price is unaffordable. Just not fair to the poor guy.
On the other hand, if we keep prices low and end up having to ration the amount we can purchase....(which WILL have to happen folks. this isn't ad endless pit of gas here)
lots of folks will not be able to even get the gas, even though they have the cash for it.

We hear all the time how opening up reserves in ANWAR and the Gulf will cause major economic and environmental problems that we can't afford to have.
Well, look at how the liberal backed governmental regualtions and restrictions has stiffled us as a consuming group. Government restrictions are the cause of most of our problems, not the big oil companies and refineries being greedy.
Hard to get some folks to understand these issues, since the dynamics of the whole things is more than can be stated in a simple explanitory statement.

The libs go overboard at pointing the finger at big oil. And it is because they know that if the finger gets pointed at the real culprits, it will be the ones who championed and wrote legislation that choked our oil companies to death. The libs themselves.
Best to do damage control by blaming others. It's the phoney liberal way to begin with.

Bottom line, and I'm not joking here...it's the DEMOCRATS fault. Yup, it is and can be proven. Far easier to prove this being the democrats fault than it is to prove global warming...yet so many buy off on the global warming thing.
Regulation and restriction that is hinged soley on junk science, is what has us hogtied.
The democrats, and their environmental accomplices, are the ones who pushed this regualtion and restiction on us. Can anyone deny that?


Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Pred was right yesterday ....

Jaybird steps up to the plate ...
The pitcher knows he is facing a deadly bat ...
He waves off the first sign ...
He waves off the second ...
Jay takes a practice swing and steps back out of the box ...
The pitcher is unnerved ...
He knows Jay can put it out of the park ...
He begins his windup ...
Jay croutches over the plate ...
The pitcher begins his windup ...
It is going to be a mighty pitch ...
The pitcher releases the ball ...
It is a wicked curving slider knuckleball ...
Can Jay hit it ...
Can Jay even see it ...
Jay begins his mighty swing ...
The bat connects with the ball ...
The sound of the impact echos off the stadium walls as Jay hits it out of the park!




Posted by: michigan---------------------

Jaybird,

There is no way a properly maintained non-ringed chain will last as long as an o-ring chain on my dirtbike... but I totally agree with your statements on the gas situation.

Maybe this will start a new trend in transportation? It would be nice to see more people on motorcycles and fewer soccer moms in Excursions.


Posted by: taraker---------------------

Man, this group is dumber than a bag of rocks.

First off, make no mistake about. The politician, republican and democrat alike, are out to screw us, the people. They use terms like liberal and conservative to keep us fighting amongst ourselves while they’re busy getting paid by the mega corporations and super rich.

Exxon, Shell, BP all know that the day of gas guzzling cars are coming to and end. Toyota has produced a working and effective hybrid motor that is being offered in more and more models everyday. Alterative fuels are getting closer to producing the same power as gasoline and the bean counters at the gas companies have taken notice and attached a dollar figure to these technologies, and that dollar figure ain’t showing the big black pretty number they’re used to seeing.

The bean counters at the big earl companies have sent a memo to the executives saying “Hey boys, we ain’t gonna be making boat loads of money in another five years so ya better start raping the public now or the stock holders will be so ticked at you and you’ll lose that 400 gazillion dollar retirement package!”

So the Ken Lay clones devise a plan to raise prices, BEFORE THESE TECHNOLOGIES HIT THE BOTTOM LINE, but they got that damned pesky government thing in the way so they start the rumor mill going. Blame it of the liberals and blame it on the soccer moms driving the SUV’s and get Stone Phillips / Barbara Walters to do a two prime time TV special on it while the lobbyists pay off the local grafters (politicians) and that’s where we are. Just another day in the land of the free……..

If Marx was right were all gonna end working for Wal-Mart or Microsoft anyway. I just hope its Microsoft as I really hate that blue vest…….

Schools out, ya’ll go back to work now………………..


Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by taraker
Man, this group is dumber than a bag of rocks.


Ha, you looked in the mirror lately tarpaper?


Posted by: D Lafleur---------------------

Food for thought. When you say oil, people think, gas for my car. Stop at your desk and look around. Do you see any plastic? Take a good look around your house, unless you are living on a tropical island, eating fruit from the trees and wearing the leaves, your life is surrounded by products of an industrial nation that revolves around OIL! The price of these products is normally driven by a bunch of guys in very nice suits on Wall Street. There is a cost per BOE (Barrel Of Oil Equivilant) that dictates the minimum cost of Oil, unless you count the late 80s and early 90s when no one felt sorry for "Big Oil" when they were either breaking even or loosing their shirt.
Now most people arent aware of a simple fact. Three years ago the amount of oil being consumed began exceeding the amount of oil being found (exploration). It wont take another 20 years for the amount being consumed exceeds the amount proven, depending on which expert you would like to believe. From there we begin the process of "drinking from the dried well" We have to change our habits, and learn to conserve, develop alternatives, etc.


Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

D Lafleur

Spoken by a man that works with the stuff ever day folks. Listen up!

Thanks for stepping into the fray. Yes you are right, nobody bitches at all when big oil is loosing their collective shirts, only when the consumer thinks he is.

Isn't the price still less than the late 70's early 80's when inflation is factored in?


Posted by: D Lafleur---------------------

Now for the "upstream" side of things. You upstream guys can jump in at anytime. There is only so much refining capacity in the US, as Tony said. I dont know the number of blends required to meet the Clean Air Act, but I do know that the requirements have created a bottleneck of ~ 10% due to process changes. Add a storm like Katrina to the mix and you loose 30% of your refining capacity, a major transportation system for the product, etc. and the world does become a different place.

Despite the fact that half of the people in this country didnt know anything about the New Orleans region, they will feel the impact.

By the way the Gulf Of Mexico operations did begin to restart yesterday and will continue be restored.

The human spirit is an unbelievable thing!


Posted by: D Lafleur---------------------

If we where paying $7.05 per gallon for regular gasoline, we would be keeping up with inflation from 1970. That doesnt factor in the Oil Embargo of 74.


Posted by: Patman---------------------

My truck will be topped of with B100 this afternoon, just doing my part to keep the world smelling like McDonalds.


Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patman
My truck will be topped of with B100 this afternoon, just doing my part to keep the world smelling like McDonalds.


Whoo Hooo ... I want some ... fries that is!!!


Posted by: cnielse5---------------------

Hey Carrot taker.
Think about this, Higher Gasoline prices actually help alternative fuel vehicles come to the public faster. The reason that the gasoline/diesel internal compustion engine has been the mainstream way of powering vehicles for so long is that for the amount of energy you get from these engines has been so cheap. I work in the automotive field and a year ago I read a report on how much a gallon of gas would have to cost to justify the additional cost of a hybrid, hydrogen fuel cell, or other alternate fuel. this report only focused on Hybrids, Hydrogen, and Biodiesel engines. It projected that at $3 per Gallon hybrid began to be more cost effective. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles were projected to offset cost at $7.50 a gallon, and Biodiesel was at $4.25.
So Mr. Tarcaterer, your bean counters would be fools to suggest raising prices because they actually are helping develope alt. fuel technology fast. You had better listen to the wise master Kiwibird.


Posted by: taraker---------------------

I always liked those reports from Exxon too, so fair and balanced


Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

I really want to believe that this is all just a result of simple economics as has been suggested above. I am really a very conservative person, economically, but this whole scenario has yet to pass the smell test with me……….mainly for two reasons:

1. I have not yet seen any evidence that supply is low. Everyone has been able to purchase as much gas as they can afford……….any time, any place (with the possible exception of Georgia, this week).

2. The price of gas was showing a downward trend throughout the eighties and nineties (in real dollars) up until summer of 1999. Maybe world wide demand has increased during the last few years but wasn’t it also increasing during that twenty year period?

I tend to relate the gasoline issue to another commodity that is essential for survival in modern society………beer! The price of beer does not fluctuate wildly based on short-term swings in demand. The price does not increase during summer or in anticipation of the weekend. And, if the price of Miller Lite goes up, I have the option to buy Bud or Coors. If I am short on cash, I can buy Busch. I do not have an option with gasoline. I either pay the current price of $3.39/gallon or I sit home and “conserve”. There seems to be no competition relative to gasoline which would result in a choice for the consumer. Why is that?

If Jay is correct (and I believe in my heart that he is) then maybe these outrageous prices will cause enough of a public outcry for the problems, those that are political in nature, to be addressed.

Incidentally, I don’t see us all driving electric cars and trucks five years from now. Heck, stand on a busy intersection and count vehicles for half an hour…………..count just the ones that are less than two years old! Where will they all go?


Posted by: D Lafleur---------------------

Badger, your #1 is it Gasoline or oil you are talking about.

Crude Oil is a non replenishable energy source and will run out. The experts are mixed on when that will happen based on current demand vs. growth vs. new exploration vs technologies to maximize production.

People need to remember that crude oil in the reservoir is not like oil in a tank. In a tank you can almost bet that 99.9% is recoverable, not so in a reservoir. Artificial stimulation technologies have improved the rate of recovery, bet we are nowhere near the 90% mark. That is the difference between some people's estimates and others.

Gasoline on the other hand is a refined product and current U.S. refining capabilities do not have enough margin to offset a major event, hurricane, refinery fire, etc.


Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Lafleur
Badger, your #1 is it Gasoline or oil you are talking about.


I was speaking of gasoline.

Michigan has historically had some of the highest prices in the country for gasoline. However, I am confident that I can drive to any town in the state this weekend and buy as much of any grade of gasoline as I want, as long as I am able and willing to pay the $3.39/gal asking price.

As far as running out of oil.........there are many differing opinions on that issue. I believe there is a lot more oil in different forms and locations than most would want us to believe (just my uninformed opinion). However, obtaining it may not be economically feasible given current technology. In addition to developing alternative sources of energy, there needs to be strong focus on obtaining some of this oil that is not low hanging fruit.


Posted by: SpDyKen---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan
It would be nice to see more people on motorcycles and fewer soccer moms in Excursions.

Yea, save those Excursions for us trailer-towing, dirt bike riding folks that NEED them!


Posted by: Wraith---------------------

Hopefully they can get back into the swing of things soon. I saw this on a site.

Colonial Pipeline Co., the largest petroleum pipeline operator, said on its Web site Tuesday that it was close to restarting a pair of fuel pipelines that were cut when the company lost power Monday when Katrina hit.

Plantation Pipe Line Co., which has a pipeline that runs from Baton Rouge, La., through six states into the Washington, D.C., region, said its main gasoline pipeline was mostly idle, the Washington Post reported.

Placid Refining Co. said it will start receiving a 1 million-barrel crude oil loan from the government’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said Wednesday DOE will open.

Bodman said the government has received at least three requests from companies for SPR loans.

Workers at the large Louisiana Offshore Oil Port, which did not sustain major damage from the hurricane, were preparing to begin unloading fuel tankers again on Thursday, Bloomberg reported.

Port Fourchon, La., which sustained flooding from the storm and is a major intake land port for oil and gas from the Gulf of Mexico, reopened Wednesday, Bloomberg said.

Good news? I know Missouri had Convoy of Hope already leaving the day after it hit, how long was it before the gov. got the funding for Katrina, wait this isn't the Flame Forum this is Federal oil reserves tapped...................... Anyways



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