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Magazine Picks on Best 2006 250F
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Posted by: Combat767---------------------

I currently subscribe to only one dirt magazine, but I am curious as to what bike each Magazine(Set of test riders) chose as their favorite. I know each bike may be suited better for some, but to keep this simple, what are the picks of the magazines.

RacerX (250F) - Posted on their web site
1. Kawasaki
2. KTM
3. Honda
4. Yamaha
5. Suzuki

Transworld (250F)
1. Honda
2. Kawasaki
3. KTM
4. Yamaha
5. Suzuki

Cycle News ???
MXA ???
DirtRider ???
Others???

Thanks!

Posted by: Combat767---------------------

I posted this for the 250F's first, but would like the same information on the 450's as well.

RacerX (450F)
1. Kawasaki
2. Yamaha
3. Honda
4. Suzuki
5. KTM

Cycle News ???
Transworld MX ???
MXA ???
DirtRider ???
Others???

Thanks!

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

The the "wrong bike" thread in this forum.

Posted by: cnielse5---------------------

Not to steal you thread or any thing but I am curious to see what the magazines 250 2 stroke shoot out winners were.

I have the dirt rider mag and they picked the YZ 250 if I remember right.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Transworld, 250 2-T's:

1. YZ
2. RM
3. KX
4. CR
5. KTM SX

Posted by: Patman---------------------

Many of the magazines I've picked up recently seem to be really stoked about the Kawasaki & KTM more than any of the others.

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patman

Many of the magazines I've picked up recently seem to be really stoked about the Kawasaki & KTM more than any of the others.

That's because they won't own them after a full season of racing.

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

Don't pay much attention to the mags and how they rate bikes but I'm thinkin about adding another red bike to the stable. Got a ride on an 06 CRF 250 and I think it would fit in the garage.

That bike handles better than any 250F I have ever ridden

Posted by: Patman---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Rohrich

That's because they won't own them after a full season of racing.

LOL! Ain't that the truth!

Maybe it should have some fine print that says "This is our pick if we didn't have to pay for the bike and parts and didn't have to maintain it. If you are not like us then buy a Honda!"

Posted by: 380EXCman---------------------

Quote:

If you are not like us then buy a Honda!"

Uh Huh. OK!

Based on my experience and regarding reliability and maintenance I would rank them this way.

Yamaha
KTM
Honda
Kawazuki (no experience with the new Kawasaki)

Same order for 250’s and 450’s.

That however is not the order I would buy them in. I would never buy a 250F. As for the 450's?

Yamaha (5-speed) A way smart move! Awsome valve train.
Honda (5-speed)
KTM (Love the WP suspension, no 5-speed)
Kawasaki or Suzuki (Tied)

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

No question that the Yamahas are the reliability leaders, and the KawaZuki 250F abortion isn't fit to own if you pay for your own parts or if you'd rather ride then wrench.

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

My KXF has been pretty reliable I think. In 2 years the only thing that has broken was a siezed crank a month ago...not too bad. I did valves 9 months ago or so with a really good 5 angle valve job so hopefully that will make the valves last.

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by KawieKX125

My KXF has been pretty reliable I think.

Didn't you have multiple cam bearing seizures?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_Silidker

Thankfully, the caps are so freaking soft when both of mine siezed, I used 800 grit to smooth the bearing bores out and they have been fine since.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_Silidker

Mine just siezed again today! Jeesus this annoying, I am gonna split the cases and clean the oil screens.

Yeah, that sounds like the gold standard in reliability.

Posted by: biglou---------------------

I don't think the blue '06 450 is out yet.

Posted by: john3_16---------------------

People are very sensative when it comes to quality and reliability...Nobody likes the idea that they spent $6,000 on a excellent performing (when it runs) piece of junk.

If a magazine says their bike is the best then love to repeat the good things the mag says about their bike......If mags say the Honda has the superior build quality/ease of maintenance/fit and finish they retract and say the mags don't know anything....Bottom line they only want to believe the mag when it says something favorable about their bike...
I was at the international motorcycle show last weekend and had the chance to inspect several brands back to back....The Yamaha's and Honda's looked excellent from a quality standpoint...Everything flows and each part looks as though it was designed with the entire bike in mind.

By contrast the RM80, RM125, and RM250 look like antiques...Engine castings, frame design, and fit and finish appeared to be several steps below the Yamaha/Honda/Kawasaki....

Posted by: J.B.426---------------------

Almost every mag always says the Hondas have the best "fit and finish". While it is good, I think now that I compare my 06 YZ250 with my 04 CRF450, the Yamaha is much better in this regard. The rear fender on the CRF is crooked and has been since day one. Others have said the same thing. The seat on the Honda does not fit as well as the Yamaha, the rear portion flares up a little. The mudflap on the Yamaha is a better design and material. The rear axle on the Honda had the threads stripped when torqued to Honda's spec.

Just a few observations. This Yamaha is the best put together, quality bike I've seen.

Posted by: Combat767---------------------

Not sure what you mean by wrong bike, but you can move this thread to where you think it should be? I'm hoping the thread will be a living thread (Living Document) and grow as information becomes available.

Thanks!

Posted by: Combat767---------------------

Thanks for the input so far! I look at the magazines as a smorgasbord of consumer information, and back that up with what I gather from DirtRider.net, and the crew I ride with. If several magazines lean towards one bike as a better choice, than the odds are it most likely will be. It has served me well over the years, and I love to read and hear about the latest bikes and the technology that goes into them..

Thanks!

Posted by: JustinC---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by KawieKX125

My KXF has been pretty reliable I think. In 2 years the only thing that has broken was a siezed crank a month ago...not too bad. I did valves 9 months ago or so with a really good 5 angle valve job so hopefully that will make the valves last.

only a seized crank, new valves and a valve job? doesnt sound too reliable to me.

Posted by: karterron---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinC

only a seized crank, new valves and a valve job? doesnt sound too reliable to me.

Not bad at all for a 4 stroke. What he describes is really not much different than what you would to a 2 stroke over 2 going on 3 seasons. I always did a top end on my 2 strokes every year and a crank every 2 to 3 depending upon the number of hours on the bike.

If your thinking a race bike should have nothing happen over 2 seasons, well you may be expecting too much out of any of them. You can't get that out of a 2 stroke or 4 stroke if you are racing and following Mfr recommendations on maint intervals.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

When honda went for lightness in a big way a few years ago they downgraded on quality IMO, some of the fastners etc isnt as good as the older models.

Posted by: J.B.426---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcusgunby

When honda went for lightness in a big way a few years ago they downgraded on quality IMO, some of the fastners etc isnt as good as the older models.

I think you have a good point there.

Posted by: JustinC---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by karterron

i had an 02 yzf 250 that i bought used in 03, i didn't even know how many hours were on it when i bought it. i rode it two more years at least 2-3 times a week. the only thing that i ever needed to do to the engine was a minor valve adjustment once, it still ran as strong as the day i bought it when i traded it in.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcusgunby

When honda went for lightness in a big way a few years ago they downgraded on quality IMO, some of the fastners etc isnt as good as the older models.

What is a "few years ago" ??
I've had Honda's of pretty much every year since 2001.. haven't seen any fall-off in quality? Are you guys talking about when it went aluminum?

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

No okie actually 2002 -they downsized bolts like the seat ones, stuff like the ones holding the rad scoopes etc seem a little softer now(since about 2004?) as well??

Its not a big thing ,and they dont snap like older kx bolts did, but the bikes dont feel as substantial(well there not , they are lighter) as they used to, its just people have a percieved quality thing with crs that i dont 100% agree with, im not saying they are junk but they are not some premium over the others IMO.Its very like VW in europe, they are branded as high quality products above others like ford etc, in reality consumer testing has shown they are near the bottom in actual reliability.

Ive heard of many crf 250s need shimming at 5-10 hour intervals, now rich will tell me how bad my kxf is, but i dont hear of kxf riders doing this, just crf ones, thats not quality IMO.

Posted by: karterron---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinC

Key point is racing competitivlely and following manufacturer's recomendations. Sure you can stretch that and roll the dice that nothing happens, but these are race bikes and anytime you stretch what they recommend you roll the dice your motor doesn't go up in smoke. You may not notice a difference in performance, but there is. Even a 2 stroke top end drops off after a few moto's. You may not have noticed it, but it did drop in performance the more time you put on it.

Competitive racers will be happy if all they have to do to their 2 or 4 stroke is a top end every year and a bottom end every 2 years. That's not unreasonable by any means.

Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 380EXCman

Uh Huh. OK!

Based on my experience and regarding reliability and maintenance I would rank them this way.

Yamaha
KTM
Honda
Kawazuki (no experience with the new Kawasaki)

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcusgunby

Ive heard of many crf 250s need shimming at 5-10 hour intervals, now rich will tell me how bad my kxf is, but i dont hear of kxf riders doing this, just crf ones, .

You need to get out more Marcus.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

I did nearly 70 hours on my kxf, and just oil changes

thing is the bugger wont sell ;(

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcusgunby

I did nearly 70 hours on my kxf, and just oil changes

thing is the bugger wont sell ;(

Most people have far worse luck with them than you did, and it really seems to kill the resale value.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Dont suppose the few changes to the 06 will make much difference overall? i know from mainaining a fleet of dialysis machines, one relaible one doesnt mean they all are, and vice versa, you have to have a fleet to really know how well made something is, this is where big teams get the jump on normal riders, they soon learn what breaks and how often, then they can see how one brand fares against another.

I wish everyone would stop posting scary stuff on the kxf as i will never sell it, i dont care if its true

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

I'll save up my posts till you sell your bike Marcus.

Posted by: jbO250f---------------------

actually the kx250f is rated the best and it handles the best, the only issue with that bike is the sound is crazy loud. it is rated the best , better than the crf250 and it handles better. it is supposedly kawasakis best motorcross bike ever made, the aluminum frame gives it sick handling.

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbO250f

actually the kx250f is rated the best and it handles the best, the only issue with that bike is the sound is crazy loud. it is rated the best , better than the crf250 and it handles better. it is supposedly kawasakis best motorcross bike ever made, the aluminum frame gives it sick handling.

WELL, I 'm convinced.

Posted by: W00TsP0P---------------------

Can't say much for the ohsixers since I don't have the clout for the factories to give me one to test.
But I can speak for my 04CRF250R. It has never been raced and I am approaching 130 hours and I am dying in anticipation to test out my valve shimming skills. The bike exceeded my expectations when I bought it and it continues to out perform everytime it is ridden. Starts like a dream even when hot, flipped over and flooded.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbO250f

Humm.. put red plastic on it and it is a CRF

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Sold my 05 kxf BTW-im still tempted to get a 06, i looked at a yzf but it looks real plain jane compared to the kxf, i know its silly to go for the looker but hay -love does strange things

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcusgunby

Sold my 05 kxf

So does that mean I can go back to being honest about these things Marcus?

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Yes i spose

you have to admit the 06 kxf is the closest thing to a works bike released?? i know the next comment, it needs works type service intervals as well

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcusgunby

you have to admit the 06 kxf is the closest thing to a works bike released??

Marcus - Gasoline is to be used for running the bike, not huffing yourself into a halucinogenic state.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

How so Marcus (works bike)? Serious question.

And now not so serious....

It was funny reading the review in DirtRider... about Kawasaki getting the alum frame right the "first time", lol... pretty wise letting Honda work out all the bugs. And "you'd sware you were sitting on a CRF".

No doubt it's a great bike, but let's not give up too many props for the R&D, which mainly involved buying a CRF and breaking it down

Posted by: J.B.426---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

No doubt it's a great bike, but let's not give up too many props for the R&D, which mainly involved buying a CRF and breaking it down

No doubt Kaw did some of that. I was looking at the KXF250 and CRF250 frames together and they are pretty different though, the geometry of the spars as they come down to the foot peg and the welds on the cross sections, or lack there of on the CRF. Check it out, kind of interesting. Of course Honda did all the dirty work on the twin spar design.

You have to admire how Yamaha went a totally different direction with their aluminum frames though. We'll see, I guess, if one is better than the other.

The Kaws are great looking bikes this year, and the Hondas have always been great looking. Myself, though, I like the Yamahas right now.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Okie i guess it maybe just me but with wavey disks, showas suspension, works like braking power, very high compression pistons, anodized clamps, renthal bars, To me it seems like the std 06 kxf is more trick than langstons 05 factory bike?

Posted by: zcookie49---------------------

Honda tore down the Yami to build their bike back in 02 as well, I would imagine.
I got a chance to look at the 06 KXf, CRF, YZF 250f's, all together at the dealer the other day. I agree that the Kawi has nice looks. But, attention to detail definately goes to the honda and Yami. For instance, both the crf and yzf have oil filler caps, plastic, easy to use to fill. Where as the Kawi has the old style, use a quarter to open filler, that eventually gets chewed up. Not a big deal, but attention to detail.
yeah the Kawi has lots of goodies, but so do the other bikes. Honda has the renthal bars and the double pipe, the Yami has the oversized pro tapers w/ adj trip clamp, titanium foot pegs and rear shock, etc.
Shame on Suzuki to throw up their bike with Bold New Graphics.
. Looking at the Kxf and the RMZ450 frames, I was impressed that Yami went different with their aluminum, (unk if it is better than perimeter or not), continuing to be the innovaters they are as opposed to being immitators... just my thoughts.

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcusgunby

Okie i guess it maybe just me but with wavey disks, showas suspension, works like braking power, very high compression pistons, anodized clamps, renthal bars, To me it seems like the std 06 kxf is more trick than langstons 05 factory bike?

I'll get excited when they address the fundamental design flaws rather than bolting on pretty parts.

Posted by: zcookie49---------------------

yeah, I was wondering about that. From what I have heard, the motor on the kxf/rmz seems to be the most problematic/unreliable of the bunch. Kawi changed most of the bike, which everyone seems to love, but the motor appears to be carried over (with some tweaks) . One of the test articles I read even stated that the exhaust pipe is the same from last years, that you can bolt up last years to this years. I am not a motor expert by any means, but I am guessing that if you changed a motor completely, you would have to make a change to the pipe, no?
Just an observation.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

its a rework of the current motor.But the yz one is and its about a zillion years old, to be fair its a good design but it sits tall.

Posted by: john3_16---------------------

Kawasaki was the first to build a perimeter frame for MX bikes.....Honda was the second (or was it cannondale) to use a perimeter frame..The diference was Honda's was aluminum...Who copied who ? I guess both manufacturers can claim one copied the other. But Kawasaki was the first utilizing the perimeter frame on a dirtbike.

All the manufacturers have been building aluminum perimeter frames for years in their sportbike lineups...So it's not like none of them had any previuous experience building one...

Posted by: zcookie49---------------------

agreed.

Posted by: motodawg---------------------

My son, fastpuppy (DW2002), has ridden the '06 YZ250F and declared it to be the 250F to have. Seriously, he now races intermediate and has picked up quite a bit of speed in the past few years. We have an '04 250F and 450F which have been raced hard since I bought them new in the fall of '03 and they have not let us down. The 250F had a Wiseco come apart last summer, but the 450F had never been apart until a week ago when we gave up and did a topend just for fun. Seriously. The valves and cylinder were perfect. No excess wear, no leakage, simply... like new. Slapped in a new piston and rings, geared up and went arenacross'n for 2 firsts and a second last weekend.
However, while he also wants the new YZ450F we would like to find more info. BECAUSE he was up against a new KXF450 at the last two AX's he raced in and they are just damn fast. Period.
We will buy the Yamaha's regardless, but from what I've seen at the track so far Kawasaki may have the baddest, stock 450F out there for 2006.

Posted by: zcookie49---------------------

looks like the yami 250f didnt get great reviews for keeping the same engine and cornering (state to move the bars).
.
I believe the yz450f has gotten a brand new motor and the 5 speed tranny. should be good. I also agree that the kxf450 has gotten great reviews. cant wait for my yellow/black yz450f though, now telling me that none are coming in dec, have to wait till jan.. bummer.

Posted by: motodawg---------------------

Funny, those remarks on the Yamaha handling. It's not really a problem for my 16 year old, it makes you wonder what's going on with those retired pros who work for magazines. Our '04 250F turns with the best of them and since the replacement of the stock link with a Storm Cycles link, our 450F turns tight with the best of them. Yeah it's still heavy, but it will hold a rut and slice the inside all day long. Best $130 I ever spent on the 450F.
The YZ250F engine is bulletproof and hauls with a pipe, cams and wiseco. I'm glad they didn't change it much. While redesigned for '06, the 450F engine is still just a refinement of the same configuration engine. My dealer/sponsor tells me our yellow 450F will make it in Dec. and our yellow 250F is waiting for me to pick it up. I'll probably slap on some Dubach pipes, 756's, mixture screws, throw a couple teeth on the rear sprockets for AX, and go racing!

Posted by: zcookie49---------------------

By the time mine gets in, if January, I probably wont be able to ride it due to the ground being frozen here in Maryland (eastcoast). Im thinking of just dropping the forks and shock and sending them out to be set up.
Factory connection is right up in Mass, any other suggestions on who to send suspension to? I have had some local suggestions, but am leaning towards a full blown company to ship them out to. I think Enzo specializes in Yamaha, maybe I am wrong. Are there any other companies that would specialize in Yamis or does it really matter? thanks for any input.
BTW - I always wanted to send out my 250f suspension and never got around to it. Everytime I ride it I am reminded to do it since I weigh 190.

Posted by: motodawg---------------------

zcookie, we got our y&b YZ250F today and the dealer said the 450 would be here in a couple weeks. Maybe your dealer needs to make a phone call or something. They are shipping!

Posted by: john3_16---------------------

Back to the original topic....

Transworld 250F shootout

1. Honda CRF250
2. Kawasaki KXF250
3. KTM 250 ( Not sure on this placing it might have been the Yamaha in 3rd)
4. Yamaha YZ250F
5. Suzuki RMZ250

Posted by: ruffryder19---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by john3_16

Back to the original topic....

Transworld 250F shootout

1. Honda CRF250
2. Kawasaki KXF250
3. KTM 250 ( Not sure on this placing it might have been the Yamaha in 3rd)
4. Yamaha YZ250F
5. Suzuki RMZ250

transworld shoot was lame! kawasaki definatly should of got the 1st place. Honda got the best motor, from what I hear it is the one of the weakest from the pack. And KTM should own the fit and finish, not the honda.

Posted by: john3_16---------------------

I didn't think the Honda would get the best motor vote but it's definitely not the weakest..The Yamaha and Suzuki looked the weakest on the dyno....

Posted by: procircuitdudecr26---------------------

Honda won in transworldmx

Posted by: Combat767---------------------

Thanks for the help so far. Looks like the magazines are pushing some of the reviews out an issue or two. I'll get them posted as soon as I get the information.

Thanks again!
Carl

Posted by: Rouse5369---------------------

i love my 06 crf 250 R great handling this thing is a machine baby.

Posted by: Trigger1911---------------------

Remeber! The mags write about bikes who advertise in them. Where is Husky for these shootouts?

Posted by: motometal---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

What is a "few years ago" ??
I've had Honda's of pretty much every year since 2001.. haven't seen any fall-off in quality? Are you guys talking about when it went aluminum?

Back when I bought my '03 CR, I had an '01 CR to compare it to side by side. Like others have said, they have cheapened up fasteners, rear brakes, radiators/supports, and a few other things. Still a great bike in my opinion, though

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Maybe someone could offer up the best thread on the inherent insufficiencies of my new bike? I'm sure I could find one, but if anyone could best summarize the problems, I'd be grateful. Thanks.

Posted by: rodH---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trigger1911

Remeber! The mags write about bikes who advertise in them. Where is Husky for these shootouts?

I never see Husky's at the races or the desert, so I guess they are all hiding somewhere.

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Magazine Picks on Best 2006 250F

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