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Kdx 220 Piston
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Posted by: KDX CRAZY---------------------

Could we have some input from people that have actually had problems with the 220 piston and at more or less what age of the bike .
Please not from people who have heard of the problem , those of you that have had it with your own bikes .

Reason I am asking this is there seems to be panic amoungst buyers of 220's .

Thanks

Posted by: adam728---------------------

I purchased my bike new July of 04. I tore it down in December of 04. My piston took out the cylinder.

The problem was the tiny pin that locates the end gap on the ring backed itself out of the piston and put a huge groove about .050 deep in the cylinder wall on it's way to freedom. Other than that everything looked great. Dealer got me all my parts (piston, rings, gaskets, cylinder) under warrenty, but I put in a Wiseco instead of the stocker. Sounds like my problem was kinda a freak thing though, seems no one else has seen it happen before.

Posted by: spivv39---------------------

If you type in "220 piston" in the search box you will find my post about this problem and many others who experienced it!

Posted by: oldturtle---------------------

Hello KDXcrazy. I do not fit your request for someone who has had piston failure but here is my opinion anyway. Piston skirts breaking off and falling into bottom end is nothing new with 2-strokes.This has been happening to every brand and every make of 2-stroke that is not maintained properly. When the piston gets too loose and sloppy in the cylinder then the piston does not just go up and down anymore but will start rocking back and forth. We call this piston slap. This is very bad and will eventually cause piston skirt to break off. The situation with KDX hardened cylinder walls is that now the cylinder will have negligible wear and essentially all the wear is on the piston front and back surfaces. Before hardened cylinders 2-stroke riders routinely bored out barrels and replaced pistons regularly. Now top ends will go much longer but too many riders postpone top end maintenance thinking they will last nearly forever..
I am now on my 4th KDX. I had 3 200s and now a 220. I also have several friends with KDXs so we have many years of combined experience. The most common top end problem is with sticking KIPS valves and resulting stripping of plastic gear teeth. The KIPS valves need to be removed and cleaned every year. While doing this work the piston needs to me checked with micrometer and if any substantial wear the piston needs to be replaced. The piston rings need to be replaced regardless of condition of piston. Fresh rings will greatly extend the life of any piston.
I do not buy into the paranoia about faulty KDX220 stock pistons at all. I do buy into the occaisional situation of excess piston wear with no maintenance and resulting piston breakage. Although nothing new and certainly no epidemic the internet allows us all the opportunity to spread whatever message we choose. Since stories get blown all out of proportion the readers need to be very selective with amount of crap we are willing to swallow.

Posted by: canyncarvr---------------------

re: 'I do not buy into the paranoia about faulty KDX220 stock pistons at all.'

You won't take it personally then if I laugh myself silly at your expense...right?

I just looked at a 220 piston with something like three hours on it. Skirt is split in several places.

Think as you like. Fact is a good number of 220 riders have found their relatively new (off the showroom floor) pistons to be busted or close to busting.

Others have ridden them THRU failure..some resulting in severe bottom end damage.

Many have ridden their ART-pistoned 220's for years with no problems.

No reason to be paranoid about it. Simply realize it's the fact of the matter..and FIX it.

Or...don't...and take your chances.

Taking the tone of 'crap to swallow' is a bit harsh, isn't it? That's where MY 'tone' comes from. Honestly, no offense meant.

I do wonder about 'plastic teeth' on the KIPS. I evidently haven't seen near as many KIPS systems as you have.

Posted by: oldturtle---------------------

Hi canyncarvr. We have guys on this board with 5 hours on their motor and are worried about riding because they cannot afford a new Wisco piston and have believed someone that the motor is about to explode. This sounds an awful lot to me like a commercial for Wisco Pistons. It is sure going to require a lot more evidence than you have presented before I start worrying about my 220 piston.

Posted by: Domenic---------------------

JEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm worries about 200's piston now..Going to tear it down tonight..

Posted by: lepper---------------------

The proof is 9 years of of the 220 pistons falling apart. You can believe what you want to believe.. it's a free country but I have seen alot more proof that they do than not. $100 is very, very cheap insurance if you ask me. If I had a 220, it would be the first thing I did.

Posted by: lepper---------------------

Just one quick example...
kdx220r 2003 with 350mi on the odometer

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37049595@N00/

Posted by: kx200---------------------

I must be on borrowed time; my 1997 has over 4000 miles on it. After seeing some of those photos I will tear it down this winter. Right after the Gas Gas 300 and the KX200.

Posted by: adam728---------------------

Another thing to consider is if the bike is stock or modified. A stock, plugged up 220 doesn't rev for crap and the stock piston should last quite a while. However, throw some mods on there that increase power and let it rev and you might be looking at problems.

My bike is all hopped up now, and I won't run a stock piston.

Posted by: lepper---------------------

No... not really. It will still happen if it's stock, it may happen sooner modded but the piston that Ma Kaw puts in are junk. It's not an endorsement for Wiseco but they are the only piston manufacturer who makes one that works for the 220. Pro-X pistons are overruns of the OEM pistons.

Posted by: KDX CRAZY---------------------

Thanks for the input guys .

I wonder why if the piston is so bad that Kawa has not upgraded it in all these years .

Posted by: xsnrg---------------------

The 220 I rode this year had same failure. Stock piston, skirt broke and fell into bottom end and cracked the case. Just replace it preventatively...much cheaper than if it fails. The bike is a 2000 and it failed this past spring. That doesn't tell you much about hour many hours were on the piston though.

Posted by: oldturtle---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by canyncarvr

You won't take it personally then if I laugh myself silly at your expense...right?

Taking the tone of 'crap to swallow' is a bit harsh, isn't it? That's where MY 'tone' comes from. Honestly, no offense meant.

I do wonder about 'plastic teeth' on the KIPS. I evidently haven't seen near as many KIPS systems as you have.

Here is info on gears that will strip. See part numbers 12005A & B. These two parts get stripped by shaft number 49046/A/B.
http://www.powersportspro.com/parts...isplayfiche.asp
These are for 1990 model since these were last year I had any problems with KIPS gears. The newer models have been changed.

I happen to be a major believer in preventive maintenance so I will certainly do the KIPS cleaning and piston inspection after about the equivelent of one years riding. We will just never agree on the justification for panic amoung owners of very low hour stock KDXs.

Posted by: canyncarvr---------------------

The KIPS failure you mention is part of the 'heritage' of the KDX..particularly earlier (than 'H') models.

My point was the word 'plastic'. Used as a noun, it's wrong. As an adjective? OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lepper

The proof is 9 years of of the 220 pistons falling apart. You can believe what you want to believe.. it's a free country but I have seen alot more proof that they do than not. $100 is very, very cheap insurance if you ask me.

That sums it up well.

To say, infer, imply or otherwise suggest that it's all crap...something blown way out of proportion may lead some 220 rider to discount the fact of the matter. That would be a disservice to that rider for sure.

Personally, I'd rather that not happen. ..not that it would have any effect on me whatsoever. No my yob!

If you get the chance...LOOK at a new 220 OEM piston and compare it to an OEM 200 piston. You can have NO clue what you're looking at or for...and you will STILL see the problem on the 220 piston. Well, at least that was true for 220 pistons I've seen. Maybe they are not ALL lousy. The ones that aren't are probably the ones that last!

Why hasn't Ma Kaw fixed it? Good question....no sensible answer.

Cheers!

Posted by: crhines---------------------

My piston skirt shattered after 30 hours. I was fortunate that it didn't do any major damage, but it still cost me $700 to re-plate the cylinder and crack the case to fish out all the metal parts.

Posted by: glad2ride---------------------

Was there some reason why you didn't switch to Wiseco before it cracked?

Posted by: ridejunky---------------------

Mine was fine after years of neglect. The dealer said that the stock piston was way better than a Wiesco, cast not forged. I got the Wiesco anyway and I must say even if you are blind and clueless you can see the Wiesco is better quality. There is no rumor of grenading Wiescos that I am aware of so I found it to be inexpensively comforting to change it.

Posted by: COMBEN---------------------

until I read this thread I didn't know there was potential problem with the 220R piston....I have had 3 of them (220R's) one with 7/8K miles+ and all was fine on the piston, but if it's not an isolated problem then I count myself very lucky.

On the flipside, if Kawasaki had a big problem and they were failing under warranty then one would think they would of addressed this issue...warranty costs , means parts, labour endless paperwork, admin hours and more cost?

Posted by: crhines---------------------

I purchased my 99' KDX220 used, and shortly after, my motor unexpectantly seized on a dessert ride in NV. The motor suddenly made a loud rattling sound - It sounded like a rock was trapped in the front sprocket cage, and then the motor stopped. When I tore down the top end, half of the piston skirt broke off and shattered into a million pieces. Luckily I was almost at idle when the piston went, so there was no damage to the lower end (cases). I still had to crack the cases to clean out all the metal parts.

FRP rebuilt it for about $700.

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Kdx 220 Piston

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