Originally Posted by XRpredator

sour grapes.

2 stroke whiners will find anything they can to whine about a 4 stroke

Originally Posted by Ryone

RC is looking like Stewart did last year, and vice versa. RC is trying to prove something on every lap (it seems) while JS is being patient and smart. The main thing is that Bubba is keeping pace with RC and Reed while staying in his comfort zone. He's not pushing the edge that RC seems to be pushing.

Originally Posted by Vic

Looks that way to me, too.

Originally Posted by XRpredator

sour grapes.

2 stroke whiners will find anything they can to whine about a 4 stroke

Originally Posted by Ryone

and you'll use any and every opening to point that out

Originally Posted by Ryone

and you'll use any and every opening to point that out

Originally Posted by rodH

Is Ricky better on a 250 2t in supercross?

Originally Posted by XRpredator

sour grapes.

2 stroke whiners will find anything they can to whine about a 4 stroke

Originally Posted by Ryone

the thumpers are advantageous now because they're as light as the smokers and ALMOST as nimble.

Ryan

Originally Posted by rodH

here is a little sample Dirt Rider actual wts, no gas

YZ250=220#
YZF250=221#
YZF450=234#

the problem is, even works bikes will be lighter, but all the components will or could be basically the same, except that the motor in a 250 2t will always be lighter than even a YZF250, and the wt will be higher in the frame. The 2t will always be lighter unless the manuf start putting 10 year old/heavier parts on the 2t.

Originally Posted by Vic

I believe there are minimum weight limits and the works 450s are as light as the two strokes.

Originally Posted by Vic

I believe there are minimum weight limits and the works 450s are as light as the two strokes.

Originally Posted by rodH

Ummm, no there not.

Originally Posted by JMD

The factories could make the 250 two-strokes much lighter than 216 pounds, but they're stymied by the weight limits. I have no doubt they can make the thumpers hit the 216-pound mark, so they all probably weigh about the same. But even at the identical weight, a thumper carries its weight higher and will feel heavier and less agile than a smoker. Add the inertial effect of the extra horsepower, and the bike will feel even more large and unwieldy than a two-stroke of the same weight. But the extra power comes in handy on starts and out of turns, so it's worth the slight handling penalty, I guess.

Originally Posted by XRpredator

There's been one race in the states. RC has had crappy starts in all three of the first races.

People sure are quick to write him off or lay blame on what has proven to be an excellent bike.

Originally Posted by Ryone

Ummm, yeah they are. Factory riders won't ride a heavier bike than they have to. The pros have the means to get their thumpers down to minimum weight, and they do just that.

Originally Posted by Ryone

Although this may not be the actual weight of his race bike, it's very possible for the thumpers to lose a lot of weight from stock with magnesium hubs and clamps, titanium parts, lighter wheels, etc...

Ryan

Originally Posted by rodH

here is the problem with that. I used to race downhill mountain bikes and worked at a shop, I loved to tinker with my bike, trick wheelsets, suspension, etc......(Bikes have been using things like Magnesium parts, Ti Springs, Alloy nipples, butted spokes, etc.....for a looong time). Funny thing is that when you compared my DH bike to a factory DH bike, my bike was actually a LOT lighter. The difference?

1. I wasn't racing for six figures
2. Even though I thought my bike was strong enough, obviously the factories know better.
3. They ride harder and crank harder than I do

etc.....We are only talking about Bicycles here, now 25 foot air on those course.

Now look at what these MX racers ride and how they ride compared to the average Joe. I don't think they are shaving as much wt as you might think (Lance Armstrong has had to have his Road Bikes rienforced because he has too much power and has had bottom brackets fail/break). I guess my point is, ya, they COULD shave some wt, but not as much as you'd think, the bikes still have to be durable.

Originally Posted by nephron

OMG......I don't even have to say it. Pred, you know what I'm thinking. (pssstt, the long-gone leprechauns are turning over in their graves)

Originally Posted by HOT C

Is RICKY better on a 250 2t in supercross ?

Originally Posted by JST122

My opinion on that is if any of the top guys really felt that it was an advantage for them to be on the 2T, they would be.

Originally Posted by robwbright

I'd like to think that too, but I suspect the manufacturers are pressuring or requiring them to ride the 4T. Wouldn't look good for the technology or sales of 4Ts if a 2T won the championship, now would it?

Originally Posted by HOT C

It would be hard for Ricky to run 20 solid laps on a 2 stroke, beat Stewart, and make a podium every round.

Originally Posted by pace

Fixed it for you.

Originally Posted by JST122

Well since the manufacturers are still producing 2 strokes, they still want to sell these bikes as well. I could see your argument if they had no desire to sell 2T's anymore, but that is not the case. In fact, I think it would be huge for the manufacturers if a 2T won in Supercross because that would plug those models while the MX series supports the 4T. At the same time, they arent having any issues selling the new four strokes. 4T's are the new thing and since all of the pros choose to ride the 4T outdoors and the common dirtbiking enthusiast rides MX as opposed to SX, even if the top guys were riding 2T's in SX it wouldnt cause the general consumer not to buy a 4T since most consumers are riding Motocross and not Supercross. Not to mention Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki each have dedicated riders who are signed to specifically ride the 4T no doubt, but Reed, Stewart, and Carmichael are not mandated to ride either bike they have a choice simply because of the fact that they are the top guys and the manufacturers want them to ride whatever they feel most comfortable and fast on. Anytime these guys are interviewed on the topic they have always said that they have the choice to ride whichever bike they want but they have also named the guys on their teams who are specifically signed to ride a certain bike. So to a point the manufacturers do sign riders with the intent to ride a specific bike, but as far as the top guys go their deals are wide open to choose.

Originally Posted by robwbright

It's not an issue of selling 2T or 4T - the manufacturers want to sell 3T and 5T if they could. The pressure from the EPA is killing the 2T and as seen with the KX125, itdoesn't appear the big 4 are going to continue making them forever . . . Most of the 2T's are several years into a total redesign, are they not? From what I can see, my 02 RM 125 is not significantly different from the 05 and 06. Therefore, the big 4 can continue to produce those bikes with a large profit margin. Let's see if/when they do a complete redesign with new technology. That will prove whether or not they really "want" to sell the 2T's.

The racers can say whatever they want, but you don't know what they're being told. Nevertheless, I admit you may be right.

I've got 2/3 of the 2005 SX races on my laptop and Ricky DOES NOT look as fast now as he did last year. Bubba definitely looks faster than he did in 05.

Anytime a politician speaks he says what his supports and bosses want him to say. Being an employee is no different. There are some clients I want to say %$^%&$@*&^%*@ to, but I don't because I have to protect my boss and his reputation.

Originally Posted by Okiewan

So Yamaha can't get the alum frame and the 2-stroke right, but they can with the 450?

Originally Posted by Okiewan

So Yamaha can't get the alum frame ON the 2-stroke right, but they can with the 450?

Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

Suzuki wants to sell bikes and Roger DeCoster wants to wants to win races. Since Suzuki has both 2T and 4T bikes, I'm sure RC is free to ride whatever he wants. He has said it many times in the past, he prefers the 4T.

Who knows, if his loosing streak (3 races is hardly a streak) continues, he may choose to give the 2T a try. If he begins to win races on a 2T, both Suzuki and Roger (not to mention RC) will be very happy.

Originally Posted by robwbright

What's it mean if he continues to lose on the 4T and doesn't switch to the 2T?

Originally Posted by ellandoh

if he switches camps and goes at it with a 2t and starts winning, one of my prayers would have been answered but i doubt that is very high on the big guys list.........so im gonna start wishing in one hand and you know what in the other, we'll see which one fills up first

Originally Posted by XRpredator

sour grapes.

2 stroke whiners will find anything they can to whine about a 4 stroke

Originally Posted by 2strokesrule

motocross racers are better on 450s because there more powerful than 250s because there twice the engine size. so its obvious all the racers are going to pick the more powerful bike if they actually want to win.

Originally Posted by HOT C

It's better you start a thread and explain why you think Ricky can ride a 2 stroke and beat Fonseca, Byrne, Larocco, Tedesco and Reed all on 4strokes, You can't fix the truth. I know you can challenge it though..

Originally Posted by JST122

I have said it before and I will say it again, it doesnt matter what Carmichael, Reed, or Stewart ride - 2T or 4T the top 3 would not be any different, those three have speed far superior to the rest of the field regardless of which bike they are on. All that matters is that they are all on the same equipment so no one has an excuse either way.