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2 Stroke Engines And Alternative Fuel
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Posted by: duke---------------------

I posted this inquiry on the "modern technologies board", but didn't receive any comments. This board is more active so I thought I would inquire here. With all the discussion about alternative fuels, in all their various guises, has there been any comments about the adaptability for 2 stroke motors, noting the peculiar properties? I would imagen the that there would be some consideration since 2 stroke motors serve as the powerplant in mopeds and scooters: two very popular forms of transportation in Asia and Europe.

Posted by: CaptainObvious---------------------

Alternative fuels, such as E85, contain less BTU’s than gas – about 100,000 BTU’s per gallon vs. 140,000. This is what leads a vehicle designed to run on gas (or Flex Fuel Vehicles) to have derogated mileage when operating on E85. BHP suffers accordingly.

However, E85 has an octane rating of about 102. So if an engine is designed to maximize the octane potential of E85 by increasing the compression ratio, both mileage and power return to the level seen with gasoline.

It seems to me that through reconfiguring the porting on a two-stroke, one could fully exploit the potential of E85. The same is true with a four-stroke. There’s more to it than a simple piston change I’m sure.

Of course, all of the four-stroke haters will joke that they thought that the 4-strokes could use bio-diesel

I just wanted to beat them to it.

Posted by: G. Gearloose---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

However, E85 has an octane rating of about 102. So if an engine is designed to maximize the octane potential of E85 by increasing the compression ratio, both mileage and power return to the level seen with gasoline..

Well not really, it will increase efficiency but upping compression does not magically create BTUs per volume fuel, equivelence is an overstatement.

Posted by: ridejunky---------------------

The viability of ethanol is still debatable because of the amount of energy required to convert corn into alcohol. At present it costs more to produce ethanol than petroleum based fuels even with crude selling above $70/barrel. The up side is that it is cleaner burning, is made from a renewable resource and will lessen our dependance on foreign oil. The fact still remains that we are looking at high fuel costs unless the oil producing nations increase production and our own refineries become more efficient. It still comes down to supply and demand and the U.S. and China put up high demand.

Posted by: Masterphil---------------------

Lets not forget what ethanol does to the wonderfull throttle response that 2T's have. It turns to crap.

Posted by: Green Hornet---------------------

"The viability of ethanol is still debatable because of the amount of energy required to convert corn into alcoho
I have read it takes more energy to create Ethanol, than is created"
Thats an Oxy-Moran, huh
AND there is not an adequate supply to meets the New EPA Criteria. That is driving the cost up also. The ethanol should be suspended at this time-Its not fesible at this time.

Posted by: duke---------------------

I know that for cars, more specifically race cars, since thats one arena where the use of alcohol based fuels has long been used and tested, that engines run cooler, but consume more fuel. The stress placed on lubircants is greater too, but generally "alky" in all its various guises was easier on motors then race gas. This was based on my own readings and in conversing with a few people I knew who, besides once racing blown alky funnycars and dragsters, raced in classes where pump gas (read racing gas) was the only means of fuel allowed.

China's middle class emergence is a double edged sword. It provides manufacturers with a huge customer base, whose numbers are starving for disposal goods. So too can be said of India. However, it places the costs of goods higher overall because the supply demand ratio has been distorted, making it a sellers market.

China has the reputation that Japan did in the early post war years in that their product quality is suspect. But give them a few years, and things may well be different. Their demand for cheap transportation may justify the cost in developing a clean burning full size two stroke. Currently scooters and mopeds fill this need.

The Chinese are known more for their ability to mimic another company's product, as opposed to starting on their own from scratch. Check out some of the XR based web sites and you can read where these guys are chomping on the bit for China to release a copy of the air cooled XR's that feature a better level of quality over what is currently being offered.

The real downside to this is that its going to be really difficult for the rest of the modern, developt world to convince them to adopt a sense of enviromental concern about the way they run their factories and dispose of their waste. I wonder if there will ever be dual sport rides offered in China, or Baja type off road packages..LOL I mean MX has drawn the interest of many young people there already

Posted by: CaptainObvious---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Gearloose

Well not really, it will increase efficiency but upping compression does not magically create BTUs per volume fuel, equivelence is an overstatement.

I didn't say that increasing the compression ratio would "magically create BTUs per volume fuel".

Increasing the compression ratio is just one of many ways to increase horsepower. The octane rating of E85 allows for much higher, and more efficent, compression ratio. This restores, and can potentially increase, horsepower.

Posted by: sailnaked6842---------------------

[QUOTE=CaptainObvious]Alternative fuels, such as E85, contain less BTU’s than gas – about 100,000 BTU’s per gallon vs. 140,000.

it is actually 80,000 BTU's for E85 and 124,800 for gasoline

Posted by: sailnaked6842---------------------

also, since we have so many people bashing E85's energy consumption, here is a DOE report;

According to the DOE, the growing, fermenting and distillation chain actually results in a surplus of energy that ranges from 34-66% also according to the DOE is that the CO2 that a engine produces started out as aptmospheric CO2 that the cornstalk captured during growth, making the ethanol greenhouse gas neutral.

Posted by: QLD_KDX---------------------

I was reading somewhere that putting just a smidgen (3000:1) acetone in the fuel will result in a more complete and cleaner burn. I'm going to try it in my diesel 4x4, but not sure about the 2 stroke though. Anyone else heard of or tried this??

Andrew

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2 Stroke Engines And Alternative Fuel

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