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Court Order to Halt Riding - ON PRIVATE PROPERTY

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Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...240396/1003/rss

Howell Twp. aims to muzzle dirt bikes

Neighbor complaints prompt trustees to seek court order to halt riding at Fisher Road track.

Kevin Shopshire / Special to The Detroit News



HOWELL TOWNSHIP --Township resident Pat Norwood will no longer be allowed to ride motocross motorcycles on his 6 acres on Fisher Road in the northeast corner of the township after the Township Board found him in violation of three township ordinances.

The board unanimously voted to ask the township attorney to seek an immediate injunction to stop operation of the dirt track.

During a show-cause hearing Monday, the board ruled motorcycle racing is not a permitted use in a residential area and operation of a track is a public nuisance. Neighbors began complaining to the township in spring 1995 about the noise, dust and traffic from dirt bikes racing on the property. During winter neighbors complained about snowmobile racing.

Norwood says he only built the track when he bought the property in 2003 for his two sons, then 4 and 6, to ride dirt bikes in a rural setting, and he allows a few friends to also ride with them.

"We ride only on our own property," he said. "I have two other kids and their dads who also come out to ride."

Mike Morrone, who also rides on the property, said the noise from his neighbor's lawn tractor is louder than the motorcycles.

"These motorcycles are about as loud as a horse walking by," he said. "You're telling me if I have a silent motorcycle I can't ride it."

Neighbors disagree, and they have supplied the township with videos of the activity and have retained an attorney.

"It's not just the noise; it's an eyesore and a nuisance," said Fisher Road resident Roman Michalowski. "I like to see the animals, and they have driven the critters away."

Kevin Shopshire is a Metro Detroit freelance writer.


Posted by: gardner154---------------------

I hate people who complain! I own 6 acres of land and have my own track where i live in Texas and I get complaints everytime i go out to ride on my track. Its my land and I paid for it, I should be able to do whatever I want on it.


Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:
Its my land and I paid for it, I should be able to do whatever I want on it.
Until our bikes are quieter... doing whatever you want on your own land won't last.


Posted by: jefpel_1213---------------------

Thats brutal


Posted by: ellandoh---------------------

thats 15 minutes from my house

howell is in livingston county, which has really boomed in the last ten years. one of the fastest transformations ive ever seen. it used to be a place where i'd imagine not much resistance to bikes. now , there are more strip malls , home depots and wal marts than you can stomach. if i was able to get a piece of property to ride on , i wouldnt expect to look in howell. 10-15 years ago it was rural, barns and all. now its suburbanites wall to wall. not surprising


Posted by: bigol3---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiewan
Until our bikes are quieter... doing whatever you want on your own land won't last.


That depends on WHERE you live and the local govt there. I live in the country, and there are no Parish(La.) ordinances to riding on your own property. Of course, anything can change.


Posted by: RS1441---------------------

A friend of mine would ride on his land next to his house he lived in a valley and the sound traveled but he would only use it after 2pm so he wouldnt wake up people who lived around but some people complained took him to court and he won so now he can use his bike aslong as he wants and they cant complain


Posted by: bsmith---------------------

It's not just bikes. Had a friend with a old Farm House, and a Barn. Only had a couple horses. Town moved around her and all the new Million dollar homes did not like the little farm any more. So did all the could to change the zoning to no livestock.
I've even been turned into the EPA for manure run off into the wet land, even though I also own the wet land. Then turned in for a well going bad, again not my fault.Then I was turned into the county because my dogs barking broke the noise ordinance. I lock my dogs up at 10pm so I can sleep, so I proved it wasn't my dogs, and that the loon just was after me.

People just don't want you to do anything, and I guess I'm no exception. The guy I currently hate is the Ultralight guy. He just bought 10 acres and put up a shop. No house, just a place to come and fly his little 2 stroke ultralight.

I can put up with the Commando who shoots for 8 hours a day once a month to the east, or the Airman and his buddies skeat shooting to the north, or the neighbor kid on a KTM 65 going round and around for hours to the west, and even my mother-in-law to the south, but I feel my privacy is violated every time he flys over. I got 2 ponds, and about 10 acre steptoe that sticks up between them, I do beleive he thinks it's cool to circle the hill, and come out right above the house!
I swear the next time he flys right over my house we are both going to end up in the ER, me for a stuck foot and him due to a severe impaction

Last year I was out cutting wood, on anther farm down the road, about 2000 acres and I'm in the middle of it, this SOB found me, and circled, I felt like a dying man in the desert being circled by a buzzard. All this area and he hunted me down!


Posted by: The_good_ol'e_boy---------------------

yea i heard about that howell guy having to close his track from some of my buddies in school. i live in southlyon witch is about 40mins away from that. seems like there is a new sub being built every other month. someone should complain about all the new houses constantly being built.


Posted by: cujet---------------------

Ya know, I have a 30 foot by 175 foot drainage easement on my 2 acres. The liberal govt here has ruled that it is a public easement. As such the public is allowed to use it for whatever they want! 3AM noisy 4 wheelers is what I get.

Funny how the law goes! Cannot ride on your own prop, yet others can use your prop to do whatever they want!

I am all for stealth bikes!

Chris


Posted by: islandrider125---------------------

i dont get people i mean ive rode my 4 stroke and people dont even notice im ridin and with my two stroke they cry about it people today just need to tough it out


Posted by: FruDaddy---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gardner154
I hate people who complain! I own 6 acres of land and have my own track where i live in Texas and I get complaints everytime i go out to ride on my track. Its my land and I paid for it, I should be able to do whatever I want on it.
So if I were to buy the property next door and have loud parties all night every night, it would be OK since I would be doing it on my porperty. Perhaps, I could open up a race car shop and tune the cars at 3 AM on work days. Maybe I could even build a drag strip and use it all night to test the cars that I work on. There is a drag strip and circle track about a half mile from me, and I frequently hear the cars practicing, and I can even hear the announcers when it's race night. My point is this, it is your property, but you need to be sure to show a little respect for your neighbors. It actually helps to get to know them. I have a house in GA on a half acre, and my neighbors don't mind if I ride in the backyard, but I have gotten to know the nearest neighbors, only ride during mid afternoons, and not for more than about an hour at a time.


Posted by: HajiWasAPunk---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by FruDaddy
So if I were to buy the property next door and have loud parties all night every night, it would be OK since I would be doing it on my porperty. Perhaps, I could open up a race car shop and tune the cars at 3 AM on work days. Maybe I could even build a drag strip and use it all night to test the cars that I work on. There is a drag strip and circle track about a half mile from me, and I frequently hear the cars practicing, and I can even hear the announcers when it's race night. My point is this, it is your property, but you need to be sure to show a little respect for your neighbors. It actually helps to get to know them. I have a house in GA on a half acre, and my neighbors don't mind if I ride in the backyard, but I have gotten to know the nearest neighbors, only ride during mid afternoons, and not for more than about an hour at a time.


you forgot to mention the crack business you'd be running to pay for all your habits


Posted by: FruDaddy---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by HajiWasAPunk
you forgot to mention the crack business you'd be running to pay for all your habits
Yeah, I left that out for legal reasons


Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------

I was taught that people in general are @##holes, you can't satisfy all the people all of the time, and my favorite , opinions are like #$$holes everybody has one, and since being around local politics .some have two and they can talk out of both of them! No matter what you do to appease the local snivelers they will find something else to snivel about! Communication is a wonderful thing,.


Posted by: Wrekt-1---------------------

Money makes the world go round. Betcha if he was turnin a profit and a nice piece was going to the local townspeople, they'd shut the ....up real kwik. I live about a mile away from one of those damned RC car tracks. Talk about annoying sound. Like a friggin giant ass fly is hoverin around, and like I said, it's a MILE AWAY! But he is makin some serious bucks and kicks out to the town...Also, you can do w/e the hell you want on your property...As long as it's within the law. **** I used to work on cars and bikes all the time...up til 10. then it was time to shut down. If you wanna dig a hole to china in your back yard, go for it, just don't make noise or be a public disturbance past 10pm.


Posted by: ur730im911---------------------

it doesnt matter its your property if its country theres no noise laws at all they cant do much


Posted by: Mully---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ur730im911
it doesnt matter its your property if its country theres no noise laws at all they cant do much


Really?? Please post a link showing this S.W.A.G. statement you just made.

Mully


Posted by: BBking25---------------------

i can't believe this.... and this isn't good for my grandpa's 175 acre farm where we ride during hte holidays (its outta town) but my cousins ride their often...they hunt their, but i'm sure its fine, though their is a neighborhood leading up to it there is only one house thats near it and they ride their ATVs on it (and they made jumps )

so i'm guessing we'll be okay - but it was annoying that people dumped trash on there, but we allow others to ride to help form trails


Posted by: countryrider---------------------

I have the same problem, city people are moving in all around us, me and my buddies are getting hounded for riding our quads and in the winter our sleds. We have been ridin here for a while and now people are moving into the area and telling us what we can and cant do, it just sucks.


Posted by: vintxrgr---------------------

well i have neighbors on 3 sides (front left and right). one i just picked up 5 carona long necks they threw in our back yard(could have shred my tires :O) and do multiple thing to our house and property that we could easyly take themto court for, the others are just about the same and the ones across the street cant hear mybike!

i usealy ride in the middle of the day on weekends and after football or off season at 5;30 6 ish, and no one has had a problem accept one of them and i tryed to work it out with them but it ended with it could be a lot worse so i wont ride after it gets dark or befor noone. so if you have neighbors its worth talkin to them.

also we are getting ready to move is there any one who has checked out the track in florence TX? if it works out as planned i will live only about 2-5 miles from it i just have never gotten a chance to go out there


Posted by: Halfast816---------------------

My complaint is with the people that move in or build next to an existing track then take action to try to close it down. The instance which I describe is factual. Our track was up and we practice three times a week. There wasn't a house within eyesight. Progress and urban encroachment ended this. Still a few years without hassle until the neighbor across the street sold his land and house. The new owner talked to us before he bought to find out how often we would ride. No more than 3 times a week to which he seemed fine with. I don't think the ink in his signiture dried on the deed before he went to the town board and began circulating a petition to stop the enviromental blight on the landscape and noise polution. You all know the ending, well maybe not. He now lives across the road from a pig farm........I'm still zoned agricultural. When my pigs need to keep cool I point the barn fans to blow across the road. Oh yes and they sleep much better listening to a little 'Sabbath' which I can legally do until 10pm everynight. Maybe he will yearn for the peace and quiet of the track back......or I'l be stuck with these d@m pigs.


Posted by: mdkuder---------------------

Have a bunch of people over to shoot your guns if that is allowed, as I don't know if you are in the city limits.


Posted by: wardy---------------------

you know whats really funny. how many people PAY ATTENTION to our government when it comes to personal property rights? I am sure that people in this thread do for sure, but generally most people dont' think about it. THey ASSUME, it's their place they can do what they want, so so mis-informed. We fought zoning of all things big time here, and won for 5 years until the county board put it in place anyway, against the will of the voters.

Next time you vote for a commissioner, alderman, any of those kind of clowns, find out thier stand on you property rights, it is the second most important rights you have. Local government matters more then federal any day of the week.

wardy


Posted by: ZeCatfish---------------------

I'm 38 and growing up grandma always said this is america, you can do what you want and no one can make you do anything. Well Grandma is long long gone now.
She'd be rolling over in her grave to see AmeriKa today.
People have entirely to much time on thier hands if they have time for this stupid kinda lawsuits.


Posted by: James---------------------

I don't really see the problem with restricting riding on 6 acres in the middle of a neighborhood. Sorry.

I wouldn't expect to be able to get away with a shooting range on 6 acres in a neighborhood either.


Posted by: CRASH39---------------------

Well I am out here in the country in Indiana. I'm on about 2 achs and have permission to run on the farmers land. How ever there are some houses built up. A neighbor that moved from Chicago jump on me all about my loud bike. Told them sorry that I was rude. So I removed the exhaust and kept ridding. The local sheriff is 19 mi away in all directions, I am also on the 4 county boarder. Unless someone is getting killed, their not comming, all the DNR wants is to see my bikes paperwork. Anyway my neigbor leaves me alone and I put back on my EXhaust...


Posted by: WaltCMoto---------------------

My buddy owns a 120 acre farm where I ride. There is a 20 acre wooded area where we ride trails. A new subdivision of $400K homes popped up next door and 1 of the new residents came over and complaned about the noise, which was typically 2 bikes for 1-2 hours on a saturday afternoon. My friend, the land owner says if forced to stop riding, he will sell his land to the condo developer who has been hounding him to sell for the past 5 years! The naging neighbor walked away.


Posted by: CRASH39---------------------

Well I would have to agree to that. If it changes here I probaly do the same. I like how a nagging neigbor complains because they want to change a area that has been the same for years. Its like they want it to suit them. I seen that from time to time. They stay quiet about the vilont ganges and drug dealers or theives but point the finger at the guy on the dirt bike / ATV. What dangerous outlaws we become, were the worst....


Posted by: Higgsy---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith
It's not just bikes. Had a friend with a old Farm House, and a Barn. Only had a couple horses. Town moved around her and all the new Million dollar homes did not like the little farm any more. So did all the could to change the zoning to no livestock.
I've even been turned into the EPA for manure run off into the wet land, even though I also own the wet land. Then turned in for a well going bad, again not my fault.Then I was turned into the county because my dogs barking broke the noise ordinance. I lock my dogs up at 10pm so I can sleep, so I proved it wasn't my dogs, and that the loon just was after me.

People just don't want you to do anything, and I guess I'm no exception. The guy I currently hate is the Ultralight guy. He just bought 10 acres and put up a shop. No house, just a place to come and fly his little 2 stroke ultralight.

I can put up with the Commando who shoots for 8 hours a day once a month to the east, or the Airman and his buddies skeat shooting to the north, or the neighbor kid on a KTM 65 going round and around for hours to the west, and even my mother-in-law to the south, but I feel my privacy is violated every time he flys over. I got 2 ponds, and about 10 acre steptoe that sticks up between them, I do beleive he thinks it's cool to circle the hill, and come out right above the house!
I swear the next time he flys right over my house we are both going to end up in the ER, me for a stuck foot and him due to a severe impaction

Last year I was out cutting wood, on anther farm down the road, about 2000 acres and I'm in the middle of it, this SOB found me, and circled, I felt like a dying man in the desert being circled by a buzzard. All this area and he hunted me down!


I think if I were you I would talk to the skeat shooters North of you and asking them to do you a favour and shoot the S.O.B. out of the sky for ya. LOL


Posted by: CRASH39---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgsy
I think if I were you I would talk to the skeat shooters North of you and asking them to do you a favour and shoot the S.O.B. out of the sky for ya. LOL







Posted by: mdkuder---------------------

Buy a gross of bottle rockets and light them all at once!


Posted by: DieselTech---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by James
I don't really see the problem with restricting riding on 6 acres in the middle of a neighborhood. Sorry.

I wouldn't expect to be able to get away with a shooting range on 6 acres in a neighborhood either.


What do you mean by "restricting"?

I just bought a place with 3 acres, in a rural area (to my east is 16 empty acres, then a gun range. To my west 2 houses on a few acres each, at most, then 63 empty acres. My neighbor to the north has 17 acres and horses. Across the street is a large subdivision of expensive homes - $250k & up). I am not allowed to ride in my own yard if it creates a "track" - which, by the town's definition is any part of the ground that is disturbed from riding on it. They have an actual ordinance for this - you need a "Special Use Permit" to have a "track", and you need at least 20 acres to get the permit (recently raised from 10). I have ridden in the yard with the kids, and numerous complaints filed. I've spoke to some of my neighbors, and so far, they seem to be ok with the riding so long as 1)it's only at certain times/on certain days, like the gun range, and 2)we don't ride the "loud" machines (like our mx bikes).

Now, we have not ridden at crazy hours, or all day, or anything like that. The most we've ridden was 3 1/2 hours (on the first really warm day after winter) in one day. Yet, due to the complaints, the town has enforced it's ordinance. We don't ride now, and it sucks. I've talked to the town about it, and here's what they said: "You can ride on your property, so long as it doesn't make a track.". They have admitted that it's a noise issue, but that they have no "enforcable" noise ordinance, hence the track ordinance. Total BS, if you ask me. I have told the town, as well as some of my neighbors, that I'd be willing to have certain "restrictions" on the riding (times, length of time, days, etc.) and that I'd install the quietest exhaust that I could get for the machines - but they still stand fast on the requirements of the Special Use Permit (20 acres)!

So, we can ride the loudest machines on our property, and nobody can do a thing about it, SO LONG AS IT DOESN'T DISTURB THE GROUND! But, I can't ride any machines, even if they are in "stealth mode" if they create a "track", until I have 20 acres!!! WTF???

I really don't think I'm being unreasonable at all - hell, if I had the money, I'd buy the 63 acres to my west.....

Oh, and did I mention there's a GUN RANGE less than 1/10th mile to my east? Uh, hello, noise???? Aren't these people used to it yet????


Posted by: sprocket74---------------------

This thread really hits home for me, I live in the interior of B.C. and due to the huge increases in realestate prices in the Vancouver area baby boomers can retire a bit early, sell there house down in Vancouver and buy a house up here at a relative bargin. The problem comes in when the bring there city attitude with them, we haven't had to many serious problems yet but I am sure its coming, I have already had a few heated battles with so called enviro sensitive people regarding the safe use of OHV's. The real issue is that these people are educated, well financed, and have a ton of spare time since they are retired making it hard for a guy with a family to fight them. Best thing you can do is make sure you make it an issue with your local politicians, push the point and make the politicians stand up for your rights. If all else fails dress in your best Phantom Duck outfit and wheelie through down town.


Posted by: sixds---------------------

where i live, anything goes. people go screaming around town on their bikes and no one seems to care. i guess there isnt a track that holds races around here regularly, just a track a guy made that only about 5 or 6 guys use.


Posted by: Diversq---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixds
where i live, anything goes. people go screaming around town on their bikes and no one seems to care. i guess there isnt a track that holds races around here regularly, just a track a guy made that only about 5 or 6 guys use.



Where is that, sounds like my kind of town.


Posted by: thebleakness---------------------

Same thing is going on here. My friends had tracks in their backyards and would ride them all the time...until the county make it illegal. They now have to own 10+ acres and then pay a $500 a year permit to legally ride on that track. 10+ acres doesn't seem like that much but up here, that could run you in the millions of dollars, not to mention that we live in the largest Ponderosa Forest so there are thousands of trees to remove. It just isn't a viable option for anyone other than a multi-millionare with alot of money to blow to just ride.


Posted by: MeanorMX---------------------

I can't stand people who do this. Luckily I have 180 acres to bomb around on, but I feel bad for people like this who have to put up with bull crap. It's my property, how should other people be able to dictate what I do on it?


Posted by: James---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselTech
What do you mean by "restricting"?
I guess I mean anything from no restriction to full on you cant ride on your 6 acres period.

I am not saying the laws they write or the way they go about doing it makes sense most of the time (as evidenced by the stuff you mention).

You could be super responsible about noise, dust, and appearances...but the next guy often isn't. If someone buys a 250k house in the middle of a "neighborhood" (as in the typical housing development in an incorporated town with improved roadways and utilities - for example) I can completely understand their desire to not live next to the 6 acre guy right outside the neighborhood that wants to SX in his backyard...just like I don't want to live next to the guy with 10 pitbulls and 4 junk cars in his back yard.

If you have 6 acres and the next guy has 6 acres and you both live in the boonies surrounded by farms or factories or whatever...I can see where that's different. Your situation sounds more like this than the town neighborhood I envision


Posted by: DieselTech---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by James

You could be super responsible about noise, dust, and appearances...but the next guy often isn't. If someone buys a 250k house in the middle of a "neighborhood" (as in the typical housing development in an incorporated town with improved roadways and utilities - for example) I can completely understand their desire to not live next to the 6 acre guy right outside the neighborhood that wants to SX in his backyard...just like I don't want to live next to the guy with 10 pitbulls and 4 junk cars in his back yard.

If you have 6 acres and the next guy has 6 acres and you both live in the boonies surrounded by farms or factories or whatever...I can see where that's different. Your situation sounds more like this than the town neighborhood I envision


Well, unfortunately the "next guy" was actually the first guy, and he got in a court battle with the town over his track. That's why there's now an ordinance that specifically addresses MX tracks.

I live in a rural area. Yeah, I'm probably the poorest guy in my area - but I'm not a nuisance or the "trailer trash". My lawn stays mowed, there's no junk in my yard, no loud parties, drugs, etc. Is 3 acres enough to ride on? Well, it's not ideal, but it's do-able. My intent was to try and purchase a few acres to my east to get to about 5-6 acres, which is definitely enough. Now I'm considering selling and moving elsewhere........


Posted by: James---------------------

Yeah, I am struggling with the same issue. I could locate way out in the boonies where I know I can ride (for a while) and drive 1.5 hours to work everyday...or just drive 1-1.5 hours to someone elses track. It would be nearly impossible for me to get away with riding on any affordable sized tract of land that would be close enough to work. If we could conquer the sound issue, it would be 10x easier.

The hassle really takes the fun out of it.


Posted by: DieselTech---------------------

The crazy thing is this: I can drive not even 10 minutes away into another town and there's 2 people that have tracks across the street from each other! It's ok in that particular town, but not mine! And I'm the one with the shooting range next door.....

The problem, as I see it, is the people that live here vs. the people that live there. I've got the "more educated, more affluent" folks near me. The same ones that work in the city but try to live in the "country" so they can get some "peace". They move in next to a farm, then complain about the smell.....

Honestly though, I think that I can probably work something out with most of my neighbors if I try really hard to appease them - it's the town that concerns me (zoning laws). The land in my area ain't cheap, so that's why I'm thinking maybe it's better to move. I'd buy some land in the boonies (so it'd be cheap to get) to ride on, but then I gotta pack up the bikes & transport them to & from, etc. It would certainly be a pain in the ass.......


Posted by: pinballwizd315---------------------

I have 5 acres of woods and im going to make a trail. There is a neighborhood behind us but the trail would be in front of the house. The neighbor to the left has 20 acres and im guessing he wont care, then a neighbor with 10 acres to the right doubt they will care. I am just worried about the million dollar houses that just went up behind me. Theres like 3 houses behind me 1 of them already suided us for burning down our trees from an accidental fire. I am going to only ride it from like 1-5 so that they dont have a reason to complain. Do you guys think a 4 stroke will be too loud?


Posted by: tnrider---------------------

what was the result of the tree burning suit. if they won - you are likely screwed. if you won, they will likely try again but you may win - esp since they are doing frivolous suits like the tree thing...

regardless you need to be observant to what they are doing. like when you want to ride one saturday afternoon but notice they have chairs out in the back yard for their daughter's wedding - you may want to pass on riding that day.


Posted by: KaTy M---------------------

We just bought 4 acres in Maryland cuz we all love to ride and of course ended up with an old crappy miserable neighbor who I swear MAYBE leaves his house twice a week for church, well he started spying and was taking pictures of us riding and turned us into the county. The county guy told us "the riding has to stop" and the cops, they have no clue what the laws are for this! I looked up the laws for riding atv/mx on ones personal property and it says you must be no closer than 300 feet from a residence and can ride only from 7am-10pm (much more than I thought). Our neighbors who board a couple of horses ride ALL the time and can do so becuz their bikes are considered farm equipment so now were raising chickens!!! and put up trees and things so the neighbor cant really see how far we are from his house--I'm sure it's only a matter of time though!



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