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Stewart faster???

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Posted by: rodH---------------------

Man, I keep reading stuff on this site before actually seeing the race. It is interesting that the Bubba fans say "JBS woulda coulda shoulda won if......."

Interesting that they throw out races like the SX were ricky crashed and broke his linkage, Hangtown moto 1 where he had the holeshot and crashed, etc, etc.......They also act like this race-High point, would have been JBS win a win, IF he didn't crash, interesting that they dismiss where Ricky was faster and setting up some lines to pass and cased a whoop (clearly Ricky made a mistake, but didn't JBS make just as big if not bigger a mistake than RC???).

Also, interesting that James was MUCH faster in practice, and also at the mid-early point in this race, but Ricky is CLEARLY faster later (endurance??? Experience???) and is clearly faster in traffic.

I will admit, JBS might be faster most of the time for the short term, MX is not a "sprint".

Don't act like RIcky clearly would have gotten 2nd had JBS not crashed, if you throw out that crash, throw out Rickys case and Ricky still wins.

Perhaps Ricky knows the "edge" just a bit more than Bubba (maybe too obvious to mention).

Flame away!!!



Posted by: TheGrinch---------------------

That's the thing about sport. There are so many variables that can effect the outcome. I could have won heaps of races if only I didn't fall, or if only the chain didn't come off, or if only the bike didn't stall in the corner, or if only none of the faster riders turned up :-). If only's don't win trophies at the end of the season.

We all have riders we would prefer to win & that can make us biased.



Posted by: YamaB---------------------

JBS IS faster... He left RC early in the race until he got held up in lappers... Later in the race when RC passed him, he passed RC back fairly quickly and then opened up a good sized gap after RC bobbled... If JBS hadn't ate it, I'd say he would have had about a 90% chance of winning the race...

Unfortunately for him, faster alone doesn't win championships... RC should be able to coast to another championship...



Posted by: JST122---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by YamaB
RC should be able to coast to another championship...



RC cant coast just yet. There are still 20 Motos left in the season and an available 500 points left to earn. Way too much can happen in 20 Motos to count Stewart out this early. If (and its a big IF) JS were to win every moto here on out and RC were to be the runner up, JS would pick up 60 points on RC and right now RC is up 48 points. So it is RC's championship to lose right now but one mechanical DNF or bad crash from RC and the tides completely shift. Sure if JS was out for more races I would say RC can coast because as we have seen over the last several seasons, no one else can touch RC, Stewart is the only guy who has proved he can match RC's speed right now. But the season is far from over and if nothing else we should have many more exciting motos to go.



Posted by: ellandoh---------------------

Stewart has proven nothing at the outdoors. hes taken one moto where RC went down in the first turn. he lead a few laps and went down trying to keep pace. if he would have stayed up , it would have been only delaying the inevitable when riding over your head.

if races were 1 lap JS would probably be untouchable, if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle



Posted by: JuliusPleaser---------------------

Nicely put.



Posted by: rodH---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by YamaB
JBS IS faster... He left RC early in the race until he got held up in lappers... Later in the race when RC passed him, he passed RC back fairly quickly and then opened up a good sized gap after RC bobbled... If JBS hadn't ate it, I'd say he would have had about a 90% chance of winning the race...



I guess you didn't understand my point. I thought for a bit that JBS was gonna start pulling away (esp after reading this site about the race and everyone saying that JBS "woulda won"). Then RC came charging back, he was clearly pushing JBS (just like JBS was pushing RC at the beginning). It was NOT only in traffic, but on the open track as well (go watch it again). It isn't until RC cased the jumps when Bubba pulled away.


What I am saying is, if people say JBS "woulda won had he not crashed" I can say "RC woulda won had he not cased the jump (he was clearly on BS butt and faster)" Frankly, RC knows the limits much better, I would rather live with his mistakes than JBS's. Ironically, the ONLY moto JBS has beaten RC is when RC fell at the start and spent had to wait and take forever to start the thing. Like I said, JBS might be faster than anyone for a few laps, but that doesn't last so far in outdoors.



Posted by: YamaB---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellandoh
Stewart has proven nothing at the outdoors. hes taken one moto where RC went down in the first turn. he lead a few laps and went down trying to keep pace. if he would have stayed up , it would have been only delaying the inevitable when riding over your head.

if races were 1 lap JS would probably be untouchable, if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle


You talk as if he was totally out of control out there... That rut kicked his bike funny leading up to the jump, and as a result he ate it... Hardly a stupid mistake... RC made a major bobble trying to keep JBS's pace, so was he also riding over his head??



Posted by: ellandoh---------------------

he failed to get his bike in proper form in preparation for that jump, something that would not have happened if he were riding , lets say CR pace. i did not see the whole race nor did i see RC bobble, i do know that RC recovered it and took a 1 - 1 for the day.



Posted by: ellandoh---------------------

im still wondering what JS has proved outdoors besides 250 two strokes give him a belly ache?? apparently he was great on the lites. since moving up all ive heard are excuses from his followers that are starting to remind me of the CR syndrome



Posted by: Someone---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellandoh
Stewart has proven nothing at the outdoors...


Now THAT's some funny ass shiznit!!!



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

You seem to enjoying someone's mis-fortune?
The ONLY difference between those two is RC saves what JS doesn't. Yet.
And the CR thing? MAJOR stretch.

BTW, the latest JS newsletter is up for everyone's dissection
http://jamesstewartonline.com



Posted by: ellandoh---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Someone
Now THAT's some funny ass shiznit!!!


lets see a list


edit: maybe i should have said liznist



Posted by: Mxrider26x---------------------

I know I am going to get a lot for this but, this is James's second year in the 250 class and when RC came up he didn't have to deal with any great riders. Also, I don't see why all you RC fans are saying that James can't do endurance races. That was pretty close to the end and that mistake could have happened to anyone. If RC crashed like that it would have been a "freak accident" but when JBS does it, it is "a stupid mistake" I just think it's annoying how you say that JBS couldn't have held the lead when the only reason he didn't pull away was because he hit a bunch of lappers on a lap. RC made more mistakes than him that race but JBS's was just more obvious.



Posted by: Someone---------------------

Good RC bashing in that newsletter.



Posted by: karterron---------------------

James is faster, only problem is he can't run that pace for an entire moto. He is so close to the edge that all it takes for a BIG crash is a little back end slide out of the turn which lead to a cross rut. Nothing a Pro doesn't run into at every National, difference was at JBS pace it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Ricky knows it to and realizes all he needs to do is pressure James to force mistakes. When Bubba learns to turn it down to a level he can run for the entire moto's he will still win. When Ricky retires!!!!!

Until then, JBS will never beat Ricky for an outdoor Championship. He can't match Ricky's endurance and speed for the duration.



Posted by: Someone---------------------

Wow, so many people on this site should be coaches/trainers for these pros since they know everything. I hope James reads that last post and can see what he's doing wrong so he can become a better rider. Kudos to karterron.



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:
Wow, so many people on this site should be coaches/trainers for these pros since they know everything.
Trust me on this.. there are other sites with WAY more "experts", lol.



Posted by: Someone---------------------

I am an expert too(in my own mind), it's just no one shares allot of my opinions so I just disagree with theirs instead of sharing mine and giving away free $$$ advice.



Posted by: rodH---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Someone
Wow, so many people on this site should be coaches/trainers for these pros since they know everything. I hope James reads that last post and can see what he's doing wrong so he can become a better rider. Kudos to karterron.



Actually I am a Physical Therapist, Athletic Trainer and Strength and Conditioning Specialist. Thanks for reminding me

btw, the "only" reason RC caught up was NOT because of lapped racers (btw, isn't that part of the challange?) he kept JBS's pace and was right on his tail for a while there, UNTIL RC made his mistake.

I think the BIG point is, a LOT of guys can go fast, but can they go fast that LONG without making a mistake (remember, most injuries occur later in a competition, where proper "form" (biomechanics) physical and mental fatigue set in. This is why I think RC was catching him (better training and more experience) and why RC's "mistake" wasn't quit as bad as bubbas.



Posted by: robwbright---------------------

The person who is "faster" is the one who finishes the race/championship first.

Perhaps Ricky could ride faster than he does if he wanted to increase his # of crashes by 20%. . . But then he wouldn't win the championship, would he? I've always thought Windham looks as if he could ride faster than he does, but he's got a wife and two kids and he's still making a LOT of money. One can hardly argue with his approach if he is "holding back" just a bit to keep his health.

I KNOW I could ride faster than I do, but I don't have insurance and I have to be at work this morning.



Posted by: Vic---------------------

Bubba is faster- 'til he gets tired.

RC doesn't get tired.

JBS = F.O.A.T.

RC = G.O.A.T.

That is all.



Posted by: Tony Williams---------------------

I can recall that any national race moto that RC has lost in the last over three years was due to RC's mistake. The single moto that RC lost to CR last year was when RC biffed a whoop section. He got second in that moto. He still went perfect season overall, for three years straight.

This year, he fell in the first moto after holeshotting, the only other moto that RC lost in the past 3 and a half years. He got third. Other than that, 1st place in EVERY MOTO.

Very few of the races that RC won (97% win rate) had anything to due with the other guy's mistake. Stewart was there last year and this year.

The GOAT is truly at the top of his game, and the only place to go is down. Until then, I'm hoping that JS gets better soon, and stays better.



Posted by: Ryone---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by robwbright
The person who is "faster" is the one who finishes the race/championship first.

The person who makes it past the checkers is the one who wins... doesn't mean he was "faster". I can race Bubba for a lap, and if I didn't crash and he rag-dolls like last weekend, I'll finish first. But, that doesn't mean I'm faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robwbright
Perhaps Ricky could ride faster than he does if he wanted to increase his # of crashes by 20%. . .

That's what I think, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Williams
I can recall that any national race moto that RC has lost in the last over three years was due to RC's mistake.


Don't forget about Bubba using him as a landing ramp at Unadilla last year. K-dub got first in that moto, and RC soldiered on for second.

I'm starting to really respect Bubba lately. His character and personality have improved a lot since he was in the 125s. He's giving RC props while hanging with him at the same time. He won't de-throne RC, but he deserves the championships that are coming his way.

After seeing that crash, I thought about the crash he had at Daytona in SX, as well as his crash when he landed on RC last year. I wish someone would put all of his wrecks together in a segment... he's had some pretty violent ones.

Ryan



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:
he's had some pretty violent ones.
as has RC ... IF Stewart learns to save 'em like RC does, watch out.

We nearly lost RC for the year at Dallas, he was so close to hitting that boat. THAT was a MASSIVE save.



Posted by: Ryone---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiewan
as has RC ... IF Stewart learns to save 'em like RC does, watch out.

We nearly lost RC for the year at Dallas, he was so close to hitting that boat. THAT was a MASSIVE save.

No joke... as well as the St. Louis wreck in the whoops.



Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryone

I'm starting to really respect Bubba lately. His character and personality have improved a lot since he was in the 125s. He's giving RC props while hanging with him at the same time.


Yup, James is looking hard at what it takes to be a champ. Speed plus attitude equals maturity. Looks like he's growing up, and if he continues..........championships will follow. (even IF RC wasn't retiring)



Posted by: sunsetjenn---------------------

Okay, first off, I have to admit...I don't like RC. I will always be a McGrath fan. But, RC is a fast guy better than most. Bubba will always have the potenial to kick some major butt, and he is way younger than Carmichael. So I will have to say, RC better look out, althoug Reed can't keep up, Bubba surley can!



Posted by: Spider---------------------

No one on here can say that stewart is riding over his head, because no one knows for sure that he is when some people ride thats how there style is i know alot of people that used to say the same thing about ricky. Also a mistake like stewarts isn't something that is that easy to avoid i know from personal expierence that sometimes things will come out of no where and make you hit the ground. Also if your looking for mistakes from someone pushing to hard look back on daytona two years ago and RC's attempt to catch reed.



Posted by: Mxrider26x---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider
No one on here can say that stewart is riding over his head, because no one knows for sure that he is when some people ride thats how there style is i know alot of people that used to say the same thing about ricky. Also a mistake like stewarts isn't something that is that easy to avoid i know from personal expierence that sometimes things will come out of no where and make you hit the ground. Also if your looking for mistakes from someone pushing to hard look back on daytona two years ago and RC's attempt to catch reed.


Agreed. Especially the last part.



Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiewan
We nearly lost RC for the year at Dallas, he was so close to hitting that boat. THAT was a MASSIVE save.

The GOAT almost hit a BOAT racing the FOAT?

dang that's gay.

oh, and anyone else think Stewart's crash looked VERY Pastrana-like?



Posted by: JMD---------------------

Man, I don't know how Stewart can keep walking away from crashes like that! I endo over a stinkin' log in Oklahoma and I wind up with a broken collarbone. He does a pike position flip over the bars from 20 feet up, hits the ground like a javelin, head-first, and doesn't break a thing. Wish I could bounce like that again. The kid is tough, I'll give him that.



Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Holy monkey, I was out of town and haven't even seen his crash^^^ But based upon your statement, how can we say the kid wasn't riding over his head.
I think Pred hit the nail on the head........something about Bubbles that seems right in plain with Pastrana........wicked talented one weekend, crash your brains out soon after....it draws us in, but ends up burning us out.



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:
wicked talented one weekend, crash your brains out soon after
And whats the win record against RC with neither of them crash?



Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Crashing is a big factor in who wins..........You root for Stewart.......I know that. I used to root for Pastrana, he's fun to watch, but he's not going to win in the long run. Cha-ching! (money's on RC)



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

You didn't answer my question

Actually? I root for exciting racing and the underdog doing well. Right now, that just happens to be James. What really gets me? Those swinging from RC's nads proclaiming "GOAT" everytime they post. Uh... EVERYONE knows that by now, restating the freakin obvious is burning bandwidth



Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-Strokes 4-ever
wicked talented one weekend, crash your brains out soon after....it draws us in, but ends up burning us out.


I totally appreciate, relate to, and honor your rooting for the underdog. And to tell you the truth, I don't keep up with things enough to know who has the best come-from-behind crash stats.
I guess the main irritation of mine is Bubba showing SO MUCH talent, but not putting it all together.......which leaves Ricky in position to capitalize (smart in my opinion).
"GOAT" is a real bold name........but has he not he earned it? (the nickname WAS thought of by his fellow racers) Sounds like respect to me.........



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Sure he's earned it.

I just appreciate BIG TIME seeing someone actually try to beat him... JS is the only one with enough HEART in YEARS. That alone should get him some slack from the pro bench racers.



Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Totally agree..........
If I were to fantasize for a moment.......30 years off my life, factory/parents to finance my desire, the self dicipline to train.....stay away from the all attractive night life that comes with "stardom", and EARN a place on a pro starting gate...........Then RC woops my butt (and everyone elses) year after year , pretty soon my only saving grace is calling him the "Greatest of All Time."
I used to root for someone to give McGrath a run......... those times were boring too. But it dosn't take away the fact that a champ is a champ.



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Yup.. and the bench racers hated RC when he started challenging the "King". "No way can he beat the King, he crashes too much". "He's not the King!"

Same thing, different year.



Posted by: TheGrinch---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiewan
Yup.. and the bench racers hated RC when he started challenging the "King". "No way can he beat the King, he crashes too much". "He's not the King!"

Same thing, different year.






Posted by: Someone---------------------

"We mock what we don't understand".



Posted by: TheGrinch---------------------

Someone - Are you referring to anyone in particular or the all the non JBS supporters?



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

I should have said, "Same thing, different bandwagon".



Posted by: Vic---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiewan
EVERYONE knows that by now, restating the freakin obvious is burning bandwidth




You mean like this?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiewan
IF Stewart learns to save 'em like RC does, watch out.




LOL



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Not sure I get it Vic.



Posted by: Someone---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrinch
Someone - Are you referring to anyone in particular or the all the non JBS supporters?


Pretty much the people who have no faith in JS's ability to walk away from RC indoors and outdoors (and call it "riding over his head"). Laptimes don't lie in my book.



Posted by: James---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Someone
Pretty much the people who have no faith in JS's ability to walk away from RC indoors and outdoors (and call it "riding over his head"). Laptimes don't lie in my book.
Titles and crashes don't lie either.



Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

RC sucks



Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

^^^dot com?



Posted by: MXobssesed4---------------------

well, at Red Bud, RC crashed got up and SMOKED JBS, even gave him a nod at the end of the race, point is indoors i'll give it to JBS, outdoors, RC no doubt, anyone who says different about RC being not as fast as Stewart outdoors is on the wagon



Posted by: Someone---------------------

After watching this season, and the races that JS and RC battled it out with no crashes, I realize I was wrong at the start of this season.

No one in the world can match RC outdoors.



Posted by: funkypunk97---------------------

Give RC credit.....

At the start of the season you were not alone in thinking Bubba was faster. Fact is RC himself admited JBS was faster and that he needed to find some speed.

But RC has the ability to just reach another level when pushed, he finds the speed. And so far no matter who pushes him, he is able to push back and win. No matter who tries to set the bar higher, RC just equals it and betters it.

It's obvious that RC is as fast as humanly possible. I just don't think it's possible to go any faster and not crash. And with his endurance and pure desire he is literally unbeatable for an entire season.



Posted by: Rhein---------------------

Yeah he is fastest when he is using AMA illegal fuel. Cheating POS issed:



Posted by: KX Jim10---------------------

JS can be faster for one lap. RC is faster for 35 min.It does not matter what bike JS is on 125,250,450. Same results as last year. Both are great riders,but RC is still the GOAT.



Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhein
Yeah he is fastest when he is using AMA illegal fuel. Cheating POS issed:


Who are you talking about? Both RC and Bubba have been caught using illegal fuel. Chad Reed and Michael Byrne, too.



Posted by: john3_16---------------------

No matter how many outdoor laptimes you show them some people just have trouble admitting that RC is faster outdoors...Whether it's setting the fastest lap or being faster for the entire moto...RC has the ace outdoors...

People keep saying that JBS sets faster laps..Look at best laptimes in races that both riders have competed in...RC has consistantly aced this speed criteria.



Posted by: yarbonwick---------------------

I don't think anyone can argue that JS wasn't riding hurt for last 3/4 of the season. And sense he was no longer in the points race, I "firmly" believe that Kawasaki sit the kid down and had him focus on the bigger picture. We'll never know now with RC retiring...oh excuse me...."semi" retiring. Someday we'll be seeing threads like "RV faster than JS?"



Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by yarbonwick
We'll never know now with RC retiring...


???...... Seems to me RC made a pretty stong statement this year, and last year, and the year before..........I think Stewart understands that better than a lot of us "arm-chair racers."



Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

Since Bubba joined the big boy MX class, there have been 24 nationals.

RC has won 21, Bubba has won 3.

Of the 48 motos, RC has won 41. JBS has won 5.

National points over the last two years: RC = 1,133 JBS = 519

Titles over the last 2 years: RC = 2 JBS = 0

RC's worst ever MX class finish: 1st

Bubba's best ever MX class finish: 4th


So yea, I guess overall they are equally matched. Pretty much a toss-up as to who is better/faster



Posted by: Vic---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt bike dave
Since Bubba joined the big boy MX class, there have been 24 nationals.

RC has won 21, Bubba has won 3.

Of the 48 motos, RC has won 41. JBS has won 5.

National points over the last two years: RC = 1,133 JBS = 519

Titles over the last 2 years: RC = 2 JBS = 0

RC's worst ever MX class finish: 1st

Bubba's best ever MX class finish: 4th


So yea, I guess overall they are equally matched. Pretty much a toss-up as to who is better/faster



RC NAD SWINGER!!!!


You and your silly facts.



Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

There are plenty more facts where those came from.

But no matter the facts, plenty of people will say RC is/was not as fast as Bubba.

To that I say ..."Scoreboard."

BTW, that is the same word I use when people say Bubba is better at SX than McGrath was.



Posted by: Vic---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt bike dave
There are plenty more facts where those came from.

But no matter the facts, plenty of people will say RC is/was not as fast as Bubba.

To that I say ..."Scoreboard."

BTW, that is the same word I use when people say Bubba is better at SX than McGrath was.



Yeah, but..... ;>)



Posted by: deano25---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider
No one on here can say that stewart is riding over his head, because no one knows for sure that he is when some people ride thats how there style is i know alot of people that used to say the same thing about ricky. Also a mistake like stewarts isn't something that is that easy to avoid i know from personal expierence that sometimes things will come out of no where and make you hit the ground. Also if your looking for mistakes from someone pushing to hard look back on daytona two years ago and RC's attempt to catch reed.

u boys really like bubba don't ya's



Posted by: MXobssesed4---------------------

Hey can anyone who's been following the races tell me if this is true or not? Me and my friend were arguing who's better in supercross, i said JBS, but he said the only reason he beats Carmichael is because of Byrne blocking RC at the starts and such, i've only recently been watching so is there any truth to this?



Posted by: kawicam250---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MXobssesed4
Hey can anyone who's been following the races tell me if this is true or not? Me and my friend were arguing who's better in supercross, i said JBS, but he said the only reason he beats Carmichael is because of Byrne blocking RC at the starts and such, i've only recently been watching so is there any truth to this?



no, there is no truth is that, he's just stubborn because bubba's a faster, but not as consistent as carmichael. in a stadium, bubba is better. outdoors, bubba had some awful wrecks this year, but this is the only MX season ive ever watched, so i cant be too sure.



Posted by: MXobssesed4---------------------

i've been watching the nationals this year, RC is deffinately faster outdoors




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