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Chinese Bikes? Inexpensive Thrill or Cheap Junk?
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Posted by: Blisterphish---------------------

If a non-racer, trail rider, average joe wanted a bike but didn't want to spend $6500 on a new YZ would a Chinese bike be okay? I am looking for answers from people who have ridden, owned, worked on, these bikes.

The reason I ask is that I have a friend who is not mechanically gifted so doesn't want to breath life into a thrashed YZ but still wants to stay in the $1500 range.

That and I'm just curious about the bikes.

Posted by: highmileage---------------------

Inexpensive thrill? Yes

Cheap junk? Yes

Marginally okay? YES

This route is not the savior for the mechanichally inept, the mechanically lazy, or the terminally cheap...

I actually have a couple, as I thought (and still do) that kids grow out of small bikes so quickly and they trash them in the learning process that it was a good route to take. As such, I have a 70cc auto clutch and 124 cc manual clutch Chinese mini.

Here are my observations:

You actually get quite a lot for the $$$. You get a nicer bike, although not the quality of say a Honda, Yamaha, etc. There is just not the attention to parts and fastener quality or manufacturing tolerances/quality control...so remember my previous comment:

"This route is not the savior for the mechanichally inept, the mechanically lazy, or the terminally cheap..."

To make these bikes work...you have to do what it takes to make them right prior to riding: (Here is my quick list)

1) Tear it down to sub assembly's and rebuild. Replace any suspect fasteners, loc-tite, liquid gasket, grease, torque bolts, valve clearances, etc, etc. In some cases you will find that something needs to be shimmed or have a spacer installed to prevent problems, etc and you can take care of it before a problem occurs. Look at everything with a critical eye for weaknesses and creative slight re-engineeering or enhancement.

2) Replace all lubricants with good quality products. Drain the engine oil and replace with good oil, fork oil, brake fluid, etc.

3) Check wheel true and spoke tightness. Safety wire spoke junctions, grease bearings, replace cheap tires and tubes.

4) Tune it properly (jet it, etc)

5) Break it in properly...

6) Change all lubricants again, check valves, all fasteners, etc, etc

We (myself included) have actually beat the snot out of the two little bikes with good results....however it was also alot of garage time/work too.

So my advice is that in the end you save some money, but have to invest the time. There also seems to be at least two classes of Chinese manufactured bikes that I can tell:

1) Pep Boys/Shuck's real cheap junk

2) Varying quality of not so bad/not so good (Roketa, UM, etc)

Posted by: Blisterphish---------------------

I had read a list of do's much like this on another site and wondered if the guy was full of XXXX. It appears not?
It seems the mechanically challenged will either become salty old mechanics or go broke from the labor costs regarless of choosing a new Chinese bike or a thrashed Japanese bike. I personally like getting greasy so it doesn't matter.

I thought about one of these bikes for my son for the same reason you stated in that they go through them so quickly. I ended up buying a 99 PW50 for off that auction site and could'nt be happier with the quality. I paid $550 for it but it is very clean and I know it will be around for my 2 year old when he gets tall enough. I don't know if that would have been the case with a knock-off.

Posted by: gwcrim---------------------

I bought a PW80 knock off (Jianshe) for my boy. He learned to ride in the woods on it. And he rode the snot out of it too. It's still sitting in the garage waiting for the next of my kids to grow into it. Anything that broke, was easily replaced with Yamaha parts, except for body plastic. I didn't notice any parts that seemed to be of less quality than the Yamaha parts that were replacement.

I'm satisfied.

Posted by: highmileage---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blisterphish

I had read a list of do's much like this on another site and wondered if the guy was full of XXXX. It appears not?

Its not really as bad as it sounds up front. The thing is that you should be aware that a little quality time invested with the brand new Chinese bikes will reward you down the road with much better reliability and less problems.

To do everything I suggested...it really only takes about $100.00 and some time. Think about it, nobody ever really leaves their Japanese/Euro bikes alone too much either without doing their personal ride readiness drills of whatever sort you do.

Posted by: RADRick---------------------

Even if you discount the quality aspect of buying a Chinese-made clone, there are other considerations to buying one.

First, getting replacement parts has often been shown to be difficult if not impossible in some cases. The outlets selling these bikes often have no dealer or service network from which to draw repair parts from. All they care about is making a sale, not building a customer relationship. If you can work on it yourself, great, but if you think the dealer will service it, your likely to be very disappointed.

The second reason, and most important in my mind, is the fact that these ARE Chinese made. Buying goods from a country with which we have a huge trade deficit may get you a lower price, but it does nothing to help the American manufacturer that wants to do business in China. Supporting a communist regime with American dollars should be something we all find abhorrent. American companies can not compete with a country that has no labor protections for workers, uses child labor, uses inferior materials, has little in the way of environmental controls, little patent or trademark respect, takes a protectionist attitude towards outsiders who want to do business there, and can flood the market with such cheaply-made goods. The more we get used to such inexpensive goods from China, the more we erode the American worker and their place in our economy. The money you save today could be the money you no longer can earn tomorrow because the American worker will soon be relegated to nothing but low-paying service jobs. At least the Japanese companies have invested in America and brought high-paying jobs along with their goods. You will likely never see a Chinese manufacturing plant on American soil.
Until the Chinese government opens up trade and makes the imbalance more equal, I try not to buy anything Chinese-made when I can.

Posted by: pkbarbiedoll---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RADRick

The more we get used to such inexpensive goods from China, the more we erode the American worker and their place in our economy.

thank you for posting this. it's the one reason why i could never buy one of these bikes (and why I don't shop at wal-mart).

Posted by: ukkdxrider---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blisterphish

I had read a list of do's much like this on another site and wondered if the guy was full of XXXX. It appears not?
It seems the mechanically challenged will either become salty old mechanics or go broke from the labor costs regarless of choosing a new Chinese bike or a thrashed Japanese bike. I personally like getting greasy so it doesn't matter.

I thought about one of these bikes for my son for the same reason you stated in that they go through them so quickly. I ended up buying a 99 PW50 for off that auction site and could'nt be happier with the quality. I paid $550 for it but it is very clean and I know it will be around for my 2 year old when he gets tall enough. I don't know if that would have been the case with a knock-off.

Posted by: ukkdxrider---------------------

if you make the youngun some stabilizers ell be able to ride it at 3 as mine were , i restricted the slide in the carb so it wasnt as fast and was able to stand on the rear stabilizers to teach them whilst riding

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

I agree completely with Rad on this. From a geo-economic standpoint, he's right on the money.

That being said, should the folks that otherwise can't afford a Jap made bike just forget getting junior into the sport?

I assume since you didn't point out the deficit with Japan, you don't have a problem with the big 4? Well what about Euro made bikes and their protected economies? Last I checked, the Japs destroyed any possibility for an American mfg of dirtbikes to exist, as well as just about every other product they've decided to knock-off and dump on the market. Bottom line, Korea and China are just now doing to Japan and the rest of the world, what Japan already did to us.

Beyond that, China IS communist, that alone may be enough to sway you.

Posted by: mtk---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okie

That being said, should the folks that otherwise can't afford a Jap made bike just forget getting junior into the sport?

No, they should just shop for a used one since a used Japanese bike and a new Chinese bike are comparable in price. The Japanese bike will be much more durable in the long term. After all, a "deal" on the purchase price is no deal if the machine wears more quickly and it is impossible to get replacement parts for it.

To me, that is the biggest problem with these Chinese machines. They are marketed and sold almost exclusively to the non-enthusiast and this market has no idea about maintenance, parts support, and all the rest. The non-ethusiast sees a low purchase price and decides to get in the game, only to find that their machine is a poorly-built POS that they'll never unload or actually get to ride.

From my own personal self-interest, a stone-axe reliable XR is hard to beat from a "sink the hook for life" standpoint. Give a little kid an XR he can ride the wheels off of at his whim and you're much more likely to have him end up a full-on bike junkie like all of us on here, compared to some Chinese junk that is always broken when he wants to ride.

Making new riders is the name of the game. Watching a little kid ride off for the first time, with a little bit of assistance from you, is awesome.

Posted by: Sambolio---------------------

I tell my friends all the time if you want to ride dirt bikes buy an old, and I mean old dirt bike and make it better. 76 to 86 ride it for a year then get a new one. I have two bikes made in china and they stink. They're made out of cheep metal, you cant torque down on them and their under powered. Do not buy them they stink up your shop the packaging they send them to you in is stronger than the bike is. No question!!!! And besides if you want to get in to the sport you should know something about its history v.i.a. riding its bikes. because China is not its future unless you like things that smell..

Posted by: RADRick---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okie

I agree completely with Rad on this. From a geo-economic standpoint, he's right on the money.

Careful, that can only get you in trouble here.

Quote:

That being said, should the folks that otherwise can't afford a Jap made bike just forget getting junior into the sport?

No, but perhaps they can scale their needs back a bit. No one I know my age that rides started out on a brand new bike. The popularity of the sport and the way kids grow up and out of small bikes means there are a lot more used, good condition bikes out there than just 10 years ago. The kid won't care if his first or 2nd bike isn't new, so long as he/she is riding. The new bike is more important to the parent(s).

Quote:

I assume since you didn't point out the deficit with Japan, you don't have a problem with the big 4? Well what about Euro made bikes and their protected economies? Last I checked, the Japs destroyed any possibility for an American mfg of dirtbikes to exist, as well as just about every other product they've decided to knock-off and dump on the market. Bottom line, Korea and China are just now doing to Japan and the rest of the world, what Japan already did to us.

The difference is that Japan has opened up its borders to foreign investment, China hasn't. Japan has made some attempt to enforce copyright infringement, China hasn't. Japan has made substantial investment in the US that benefits many Americans, China hasn't. Japan doesn't achieve its pricing advantage on the backs of a downtrodden labor force like China does.

Quote:

Beyond that, China IS communist, that alone may be enough to sway you.

That alone SHOULD be enough to sway any American. Granted, we can't avoid Chinese goods altogether what with all the opportunists who import them into the US solely for profit with no concerns of nationalism or conscience. But we should try to whenever possible if for no other reason than enriching a country that despises our way of life and would like to see us gone is a bad business decision. Oh, and the fact that they number in the billions compared to our puny 275 million should be cause for concern.

Posted by: mtk---------------------

Hey now, we've got 300 million of us now, not 275 million.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

import them into the US solely for profit with no concerns of nationalism or conscience.

Can't disagree entirely, but WalMart didn't become the largest retailer on the planet because John Doe American gives a CRAP about anything but price. THAT is real. So instead of the mfg jobs, we've become a work at WalMart for 7.00 society. Good thing they sell their crap cheap, their own employees "may" be able to afford it.

Years ago the sticker on the box that said "Made in America" meant something to a lot of us.

Then it became: "Assembled in America".

Then, the standards were lowered to the point that a truck made in Canada only had to have an American hand touch it somewhere during the mfg. process to be "American Made" (jest of course, but really, it's not far off...).

Now? All those logos are gone.

Posted by: kingbrian---------------------

so now that this turned into a political forum im a broke bike enthusiast that doesnt want my 4 year old girl or 5 year old boy to miss out on the fun that i had wen i learned to ride. i started on a 1982 rm60 that my stepdad traded for an L.A. kings jacket. the kick start shaft was stripped so i had to push start it any time i wanted to ride which was every waking second. and the seat which got nawed off by the previous owners dog was now a bunch of old towels in a leg from a pair levis that was held on to the bike with metal coat hangers. i knew nothing of dirt bikes back then except that i was the baddest rider ever and i would even swear today that rm60 would smoke my wr 250. simply because i knew nothing better and im glad. i would love for my kids to start on cheap chinese crap im a mechanic so i can fix it. so now that im done remminessing where can i get these chinese crap bikes?

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Check your local Pep-Boys. I know Autozone carried them for a while but couldn't deal with all the unhappy customers who couldn't get support or parts.

Posted by: RADRick---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingbrian

i would love for my kids to start on cheap chinese crap im a mechanic so i can fix it. so now that im done remminessing where can i get these chinese crap bikes?

If you have the ability to turn a wrench, why not just buy a good used Jap bike for your kid? You can both share in the joy of fixing it up, instill in him an understanding of maintenance and value, and skip all the geo-political ramifications of supporting a Communist country with American dollars. Sounds like a win-win to me.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone assails me for my use of the term "Jap bike," unless you can specifically state why this is offensive to anyone, don't bother to reply. The English don't mind being called Brits, The Australians don't cry over being labeled Aussies, the Canadians beam when called Canucks, the French don't mind being Frenchies (or maybe we don't care what bothers the French). Calling someone from Japan a Jap does not have the same negative connotation as calling the Chinese Chinks or a Spaniard a Spic. It's simply a shortening of the original word. I have a few Jap friends and they don't understand the problem with the term, either.

Posted by: mtk---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Actually, Wal-Mart used to be all about American products when the old man was still alive. He became the largest retailer in America and ran his retailer competition into the ground, but he also understood the importance of supporting domestic manufacturing even if it cost a little more to do it. But after he died and his kids took over, they became all about the bottom line and the massive influx of Chinese products into Wal-Mart began. Current Wal-Mart management pays no heed to country of origin, only to the bottom line price, and that isn't good for the long-term.

Posted by: Sawblade---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtk

I just love it when someone tries to invoke Sam Walton’s name to justify information, which they perceive as fact. Here are some facts from a 23-year associate that started at the bottom of the ladder.

The “Buy America” program was in place for a number of years, but as the manufacturing base moved production off shore, many items were no longer “Made in America”. This was due to a changing global market. Manufactures, not Wal-Mart, decided to move production off shore. Today, Wal-Mart has relationships with 61,000 U.S. suppliers, spent $200 billion on merchandise in 2005, and supported more then 3 million American jobs.

After Sam Walton’s death, his kid’s did not take over. Even at that time, most of the Walton family was not involved in the day-to-day operations of the company. Companies are in business to make money and build shareholder value. Show me a company not concerned about the bottom line, will you won’t, as there would not be a company.

Mr. Sam started a small company in 1962 with a simple plan. Sell merchandise at an every day low price, control expenses and take care of your customers and associates. Those core believes are still in place today, as they were in 1962. However, the global market place has created a much different world, whether you want to admit it or not. Yes, we want our suppliers to make a fair return on their investment. If it weren’t for our suppliers and 127 million customers we serve every week in the US, we would not be in business or have had the success that we have. Bottom line, show me a better-made product with a lower cost and better customer service then your competition and I will be very interested, regardless of where it is manufactured. That is today;s global market, not yesterdays wishful thinking.

Today with Wal-Mart’s sustainability goals, to be supplied 100 percent by renewable energy; to create zero waste; and to sell products that sustain our resources and our environment. Having given more than $245 million to charity last year, including being the leading major corporation to assist in the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita with cash and merchandise donations, our focus on Health and Wellness and our growth over the last 14 years since Mr. Sam’s death, I feel he would be damn proud as I have been for the past 23 years.

O yeah, I wouldn't by a Chinese bike myself as they are junk from what I can see. But isn't that what was said about the Japanese 35 or 40 years ago?

Posted by: RADRick---------------------

Sawblade said: "regardless of where it is manufactured"

Right there is the problem, as I see it. We have no nationalist conscience, just a slavish devotion to price no matter what the repercussions to our own economy or workforce. When the first gas crisis hit, people bought Jap cars with little thought to how it would affect the American car manufacturers. While the competition helped to eventually increase the quality and lower the price of American cars, it made a negative impact on the American auto worker. Tariffs and quotas helped save the industry and force the Japs to invest in our country, but the American auto industry was diminished and has never really recovered. Ask any long-time GM employee who may never see their pension money how their life has been affected by the American consumer's lack of foresight and nationalism. We are being turned into a country of servants rather than industrialists simply because we prefer to pay a lower price than support our own. When all of our middle-class is gone and the only ones left are the rich that can afford college and better jobs, and the poor who can only afford to shop at Wal-Mart and recite, "Would you like fries with that?" a hundred times a day in their job, maybe we'll wake up and see that we should have been a little more cautious about allowing whole domestic industries to die in favor of cheap imported goods.

Posted by: RM_guy---------------------

Ride or Die,
You're pretty sharp for 13! If a bike form China ia all you can afford then buy it. You can make it up the the rest of the country when your more established in life.

I'm more concerned with your parents not wanting you to ride but you're determined to ride anyway. It will be a lot easier for you in the long run if you work with them. You sound pretty responsible so use that in your discussions with them. Set ground rules with them and DON'T break them. I don't know how you broke your bone but take a hard, honest look at what happened and learn from it. Show your parents that you can be responsible and learn from your mistakes. Good luck.

Posted by: RM_guy---------------------

Hmmm...what happened to Ride or Die's post??

Posted by: Ride or Die---------------------

Ya what did happen to it? And thanks Rm guy. But my parents don't have a problem with me dedicated to riding. Its just the last bike they helped me buy was a used 82 husqvrana 250 2 stroke. Waaaay too much power for me. And it was very beat and only paid 200 for it. They where just scared for me because the 2 shocks in the back busted and i went over bars and the bike tumbled over me breaking my back. They just don't want me to be jumping and the only reason they arent helping me is that they want to teach me responsibility. They are defanitley behind me riding. I could never find anything i had a nack for my dad likes to hunt, my brother likes to fish, my sister likes cars, and my mom likes to teach, I treid everything from piano to paintballing etc. etc. But the only thing i actually enjoy doing is going for long slow rides in the woods with a bunch of friends and exploring new places. And i also love guitar

. But my parent want me to respect the bike. Which i do respect everything with a motor, even the samll dirtbikes. My dad says that you can never master the bike. Once you become to over confident is when you get hurt. Which this is why i got hurt the last time. I wanted to be the show-off so i tried jumping higher and higher.

thanks,
Ride or Die

P.S. I'm not sure what happened to my post?

Posted by: Ride or Die---------------------

I still cant find any used jap bike sin my area

. And about these chinese bikes. If i lay them down a couple of times or maybe drop it. Are they going to break. Like my friend is riding a CRF150. Is it going to compare to that at all?

Posted by: Vic---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RADRick

Sawblade said: "regardless of where it is manufactured"

Right there is the problem, as I see it. We have no nationalist conscience, just a slavish devotion to price no matter what the repercussions to our own economy or workforce. When the first gas crisis hit, people bought Jap cars with little thought to how it would affect the American car manufacturers. While the competition helped to eventually increase the quality and lower the price of American cars, it made a negative impact on the American auto worker. Tariffs and quotas helped save the industry and force the Japs to invest in our country, but the American auto industry was diminished and has never really recovered. Ask any long-time GM employee who may never see their pension money how their life has been affected by the American consumer's lack of foresight and nationalism. We are being turned into a country of servants rather than industrialists simply because we prefer to pay a lower price than support our own. When all of our middle-class is gone and the only ones left are the rich that can afford college and better jobs, and the poor who can only afford to shop at Wal-Mart and recite, "Would you like fries with that?" a hundred times a day in their job, maybe we'll wake up and see that we should have been a little more cautious about allowing whole domestic industries to die in favor of cheap imported goods.

It's called, "The Free Market". Money will go where it's treated best. As wages and benefits rise in China and elsewhere, so will prices. That will bring competition from other countries, including the USA. The USA has been priced out of many markets due to ridiculous union pay structures and over-regulation, among other things. I don't know if you've noticed, but the US economy is thriving. Some people over here must understand how to take advantage of the cheap labor over there.

Your ranting sounds communistic.

Posted by: endofsilence808---------------------

china bikes are funny. if you dont like you kids buy them one. they will prob break them in half and never ride again. nice welds on them also, if you like crap buy them. have fun getting parts. or so i hear. those things are a disgrace to motocross and dirt riders all over.

Posted by: RADRick---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic

Wow, where I come from calling a person a Communist is a major insult. You should look up the meaning of Communist before you tag someone with that label. Being a Nationalist is far different from being a Communist.

I know what free enterprise is and how it works. What I take issue with is the fact that we have a monumental trade imbalance with China. They let us buy many of their goods, but they don't let us sell them many of ours. They can produce goods cheaper because they have little to no controls on labor or environmental concerns. We do not play on a level playing field.

As for the current state of our economy, you should really take another look. The housing market has been driving it for several years now and it appears we are on the cusp of that bubble bursting. Several counties in CA are seeing double- and triple-digit increases in foreclosures (Look at Placer County, for one). In Florida, the housing market is slowing down considerably as has new housing construction. A year ago it would take 1-2 weeks to sell a property, now it takes 6 months or more. The opportunists that pushed prices up by "flipping" houses for a quick profit have all but disappeared leaving the no-money-down buyers in a negative equity hole that many will just walk away from. The auto industry is on the verge of serious collapse with GM about ready to enter bankruptcy. Is that your idea of thriving? The tech sector has been in the doldrums for several years and is hoping a new Windows version will pull it out. If Microsoft doesn't address some of the real problems facing Windows' users with their new Vista version, things won't get much better for the computer industry anytime soon. The price of oil is affecting every strata of business and consumer spending, which are both on the decline. Meanwhile, we continue to enrich a country (China) that refuses to allow us the same inroads into their economy, refuses to make any meaningful protections of copyright and intellectual property rights that would spur more equal trade, and continues to provide aid to our enemies.

So go ahead, buy that Chinese-made POS. I'm sure your conscience will be clear.

Posted by: Ride or Die---------------------

Sheesh i didn't mean to start a riot or get everyone mad.

Posted by: Vic---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RADRick

Wow, where I come from calling a person a Communist is a major insult. You should look up the meaning of Communist before you tag someone with that label.

Re-read my post. I didn't call you anything.

I will admit that the economy shows some signs of slowing, but I really don't think you can blame it on China. I don't think China is reponsible for GM's problems, either.

I have no intention of buying a POS- Chinese or otherwise.

Posted by: Vic---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ride or Die

Sheesh i didn't mean to start a riot or get everyone mad.

I aint mad.

Posted by: Ride or Die---------------------

Lol

Posted by: Patman---------------------

"Wal-Mart is responsible for approximately 10 percent of the United States' trade deficit with China."

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/27829

I recall seeing this documentary, it was rather interesting.

Posted by: RADRick---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic

Re-read my post. I didn't call you anything.

You said: "Your ranting sounds communistic."
You called my words Communistic, which, by extension, was about the same thing as calling me a Communist. As an anti-Castro Cuban-American, I take offense to that.

Quote:

I will admit that the economy shows some signs of slowing, but I really don't think you can blame it on China. I don't think China is reponsible for GM's problems, either.

I never said China was solely responsible for anything. In fact, I was pretty clear that alot of the problem is directly attributable to the American consumer who spends their money with little or no concern on how it affects our economy and our country. In any case, it took a number of years for the Japanese auto and motorcycle industry to decimate our own. Things like that happen over time, not overnight. By the time we realize what's happening by buying all these cheap Chinese goods, it will be too late. We are so intoxicated with lower prices and willing to accept lower quality that when we finally wake up to what's happening there will be no domestic choices available to pick from. Just like Japan supplanted our electronics industry, China will do the same with many others. The difference, as I said previously, is that China does not share Japan's philosophy about doing business with America.

Quote:

I have no intention of buying a POS- Chinese or otherwise.

Glad to hear that.

Posted by: RADRick---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patman

"Wal-Mart is responsible for approximately 10 percent of the United States' trade deficit with China."

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/27829

I recall seeing this documentary, it was rather interesting.

Very interesting.
One quote: "Our trade deficit with China has ballooned since its entry into the WTO in 2001, contrary to the promises made by politicos of both parties at the time.

The imbalance -- in combination with soaring fiscal deficits, a low savings rate and high energy costs -- has become a real threat to America's middle class."

Sounds alot like what I've been saying. Globalization is the tool that wealthy industrialists and bankers will use to control worldwide markets. Look into the histories of the Masons, the Bilderbergers or other such secret societies and you'll get shivers. Globalization allows these powers to manipulate countries into wars and then profit by dealing with both sides. That's just one example.

Posted by: Vic---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RADRick

You said: "Your ranting sounds communistic."
You called my words Communistic, which, by extension, was about the same thing as calling me a Communist.

If you say so.

How would you solve this "problem" of people buying what they want at prices they want to pay?

This is bad?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...rets/stats.html

Posted by: RADRick---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic

If you say so.

How would you solve this "problem" of people buying what they want at prices they want to pay?

Education. Most people are ignorant of the trade deficit between the US and China. Perhaps if they were made aware of how much that deficit costs us as consumers in other areas, they might be more responsive. Also, while their will always be a demand for western goods in emerging countries, many like Japan have a nationalist attitude towards protecting their own industries. They buy many goods made in their countries if for no other reason than to show their pride. We used to do that, but now we are obsessed with price to the point that we'll even buy goods from a Communist country or one with a dictator so despotic that he murders his own people. We have no collective conscience any more about what we buy, where it comes from or how it was produced. That's despicable.

Quote:

This is bad?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...rets/stats.html

Uhm, yes. When those numbers come on the backs of exploited workers, especially children, or at the expense of the environment. Here's one example: several years ago a major motorcycle manufacturer moved much of its chrome plating to an offshore country. They did this because environmental restrictions in the US had made the process so costly that it was easier to outsource it to a 3rd world country that has little regard for the environment or labor laws. The country in question was so hungry for new revenue that it gladly accepted the business despite the fact that the improper disposal of waste byproducts from the chroming process led to the poisining of thousands of its people. Our greed for lower prices is not only shortchanging the American worker, but leading to what will surely be environmental disasters of the future. Union Carbide found this out the hard way when its plant in Bhopal self-destructed back in the '80s. An unseen result of over-zealous environmentalism is that we are now foisting our problems on an unsuspecting and needy 3rd world all in the name of profit.

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