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Go Blue!!

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Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

USC gets to stay at home... Michigan gets another shot!
Or does Florida get a shot? Ugg.



Posted by: MXSparx---------------------

I vote Michigan



Posted by: HajiWasAPunk---------------------

You could make a case for either but I'm not crazy about rematches in a league that determines it's champion by polls (computer or human).

But more than anything what this upset will do is put another ounce of pressure on the better-than-it-used-to-be-but-still-not-right-God-forsaken BCS to come up with a playoff.

One other thing, when will the Big-10 grow some stones and get a championship game too?



Posted by: Tennessee Thumper---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by HajiWasAPunk

One other thing, when will the Big-10 grow some stones and get a championship game too?


Yep, they would've already had a rematch this weekend.



Posted by: Tennessee Thumper---------------------

I almost forgot.........

I'm hoping they (the BCS) has problems like this every year until the BCS is dead.



Posted by: truespode---------------------

MICHIGAN BABY!!!!

Then again... I'm biased being born there.

GO BLUE!



Posted by: Timr---------------------

Yeah...because it makes total sense to crown a team the "National Champion" when they can't even win their own conference!

You watch, they may add rule number 413 to the screwed up BCS formula that will state something like "to be BCS/National Championship eligible, you must be the champion of your conference"

That will put an end to the re-match biz...unless the #1 & #2 BCS teams have faced each other once before during the season but they happen to be from different conferences.

So, in the end it will still suck! issed:



Posted by: Timr---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennessee Thumper
I almost forgot.........

I'm hoping they (the BCS) has problems like this every year until the BCS is dead.


Agreed...If the SEC gets screwed again, perhaps they will sucede from the BCS mix. Just take their Sh.. and go home.

However, that's not likely since Mike Slive, Commisioner of the SEC, is the chairman of the BCS committee.

Nevermine that OSU and UM play in the Big 2/Little 8 (really it's nine, but apparently, Math is not their strong suite.)

Insert all of those stats here about UM being 1 - 1 vs teams ranked in the top 25 and having an 8 point victory against 1AA Ball state, etc. etc. etc....



Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timr
Insert all of those stats here about UM being 1 - 1 vs teams ranked in the top 25 and having an 8 point victory against 1AA Ball state, etc. etc. etc....


They also have just one three point loss which was to the supposed best team in the country on their home field. OSU was darn lucky to win that game and they know it. Nobody wants a rematch less than the OSU Luckeyes.

I say play the rematch on January 2nd (or whenever) and then let the winner take the Gators apart a week later, just for fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timr
Nevermine that OSU and UM play in the Big 2/Little 8 (really it's nine, but apparently, Math is not their strong suite.)


At least they can spell..........

What about U of W........number one of the "little nine"? Talk about your under rated teams. They are gonna beat up on somebody in a bowl game and everyone is gonna say "where the heck did they come from"?



Posted by: Timr---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerMan


At least they can spell..........

What about U of W........number one of the "little nine"? Talk about your under rated teams. They are gonna beat up on somebody in a bowl game and everyone is gonna say "where the heck did they come from"?


I knew that I opened myself up on the spelling thing.

Here's more proof of the little nine theory:

Michigan's best win is considered a 27-13 victory over Wisconsin on Sept. 23. The Badgers are 11-1 and have climbed to No. 7 in the AP Top 25 poll, despite having played only one ranked opponent -- the Wolverines -- the entire season

Contrast that agains this:

The 12 teams Florida defeated finished the season with 11 combined wins against opponents which were ranked in the AP Top 25 poll at the time the game was played. The opponents Michigan defeated claim just three wins against ranked teams

and this:

The Gators went 3-1 against ranked opponents, beating then-No. 13 Tennessee, No. 9 LSU and No. 8 Arkansas and losing at No. 11 Auburn. The Wolverines went 1-1 against ranked opponents, beating a highly overrated No. 2 Notre Dame team (that lost to Michigan and USC by a combined total of 46 points) and losing at No. 1 Ohio State 42-39 on Nov. 18.

...certainly makes for a fun debate. Just as some background FYI...I lived in Michigan twice...I'm well familiar with U of M since we had season tix to football and basketball when we moved back in the late 80s. I love the Michigan vs Ohio State rivalry...but in this case, I just don't think they deserve a second chance...someone else deserves a first chance at OSU and since the overated USC blew it, the next in line is Florida.



Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:
I just don't think they deserve a second chance...someone else deserves a first chance at OSU and since the overated USC blew it, the next in line is Florida.


I guess I just don't see it as a "second chance". Let the two highest ranked teams in the country play each other for the championship regardless who they might be. What happened during the regular season does not apply here. If it was Florida vs. Florida State or Florida vs. Miami for the BCS championship, I would have the same opinion.

My guess is that Florida will wrongfully be placed in the number two position and will play the Luckeyes while Michigan will play USC in the Rose Bowl. Whatever collectively generates the highest ratings/revenue.

But, make no mistake about Michigan. They are one of the most exciting U of M teams ever and I have watched about 90% of their games since 1972.

Go Blue!



Posted by: HajiWasAPunk---------------------

If we had a playoff system, I wouldn't care about a rematch (similar to what could happen in the NFL). But we don't so there isn't a fair way to determine the champ. They should take the top 8 and throw them into a playoff. The president at UF has already said he's going to attempt to rally support from other university presidents to get this going. Great thing about this controversy is that it forces them closer and closer to a legitimate system.

UF's record and schedule is more impressive this year than UM period.



Posted by: Tennessee Thumper---------------------

The only thing a rematch would show is who's the best team in the Big10.

conference champs vs conference champs,not runner up.



Posted by: Tennessee Thumper---------------------

Florida is in. .9445

Michigan .9344



Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Sad........what a convoluted mess.





Posted by: HajiWasAPunk---------------------

lol, I was just thinking though, before the BCS we would've had UCLA playing OSU in the Rose Bowl. Now what would that prove?



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Actually, it's not a mess.
Michigan had their chance. All they had to do was win and they'd be in the driver's seat right now.



Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiewan
Actually, it's not a mess.
Michigan had their chance. All they had to do was win and they'd be in the driver's seat right now.




Makes no sense to me. Logically, that is like saying that if two pro teams play during the regular season, they cannot meet again in the super bowl.

Well of course all they had to do is win and so did Florida, but they each lost one game as did USC until yesterday. So why was USC the shoe-in until yesterday?

If the rules state that two teams from the same conference can’t meet for the championship, I will accept that. If the rules state that two teams who have played during the regular season can’t meet for the championship, I will accept that too.

So, we have a “championship series” AND a season long ranking system. However, if we don’t like the rankings at the end of the season, we just manipulate them so that we get a combination of bowl games that we like and that kinda sorta fits someone’s perception of a “championship series”? It’s laughable!

There are only two possibilities. Either quit trying to crown a national champion or develop a true playoff system.



Posted by: Tennessee Thumper---------------------

1. Florida beat nine teams that are projected to play in bowl games. Michigan beat six.

2. Michigan beat five teams that finished the season with losing records. Florida beat two teams with sub-.500 records.

3. Florida's 12 Division I-A opponents had a combined record of 89-57. Michigan's 12 opponents had a combined record of 84-61.

4. Michigan's best win is considered a 27-13 victory over Wisconsin on Sept. 23. The Badgers are 11-1 and have climbed to No. 7 in the AP Top 25 poll, despite having played only one ranked opponent -- the Wolverines -- the entire season.

5. The 12 teams Florida defeated finished the season with 11 combined wins against opponents which were ranked in the AP Top 25 poll at the time the game was played. The opponents Michigan defeated claim just three wins against ranked teams (Notre Dame beat Penn State. Indiana beat Iowa. Vanderbilt beat Georgia. The Nittany Lions, Hawkeyes and Bulldogs, it should be noted, haven't been ranked in seven weeks).

6. The Gators went 3-1 against ranked opponents, beating then-No. 13 Tennessee, No. 9 LSU and No. 8 Arkansas and losing at No. 11 Auburn. The Wolverines went 1-1 against ranked opponents, beating a highly overrated No. 2 Notre Dame team (that lost to Michigan and USC by a combined total of 46 points) and losing at No. 1 Ohio State 42-39 on Nov. 18.

7. The Gators' average margin of victory against Division I-A teams was 13.5 points. They won seven games by 14 points or fewer, six by less than 10. The Wolverines' average margin of victory was 17.3 points. They won six games by 14 points or fewer, two by less than 10.

8. The Gators played Western Carolina, a Division I-AA team, and won by 62 points. The Wolverines played Ball State, which should be a I-AA team, and won by eight.

9. Since the Wolverines last played and lost at Ohio State, the Gators won at Florida State (The Seminoles are 6-6, but rivalry games are tough to win. Just ask USC coach Pete Carroll) and then beat the No. 8 Razorbacks, who defeated then-No. 2 Auburn and No. 13 Tennessee by 17 points each.

10. Michigan didn't win the Big Ten; Florida won the SEC. Winning your conference should be a prerequisite for playing in the national championship.



Posted by: gwcrim---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerMan
OSU was darn lucky to win that game and they know it.

You and I must have watched different games. I saw Ohio State pretty much controlling the game. They OWNED the first half. Close finish? Yes. But it was very apparent that Ohio State was the better team.

Personally, I'd like to see Ohio State play UM again for the championship. Nothing like rubbing dog dooty in their faces twice in one season while taking the National Championship.



Posted by: HajiWasAPunk---------------------

Amen Tennessee Thumper.

I wouldn't care if it was a rematch title game if it was a playoff system that achieved it. And if the Big-chicken-10 had a championship game, OSU and UM could've had their rematch their with the winner going on to the big game.

But as long as were basing the whole thing on voting, UF's season was more impressive than UM's hands down.



Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

TT,

There are a lot of “shoulds” noted in your plea for a #2 Florida team.

I guess there is one common denominator in this whole mess and that is Vanderbilt:

Michigan 27, Vanderbilt 7
Florida 25, Vanderbilt 19

Rivalry games……..UM plays one every time they play a conference game. Each conference game they play is the opposing team’s biggest game of the year, including the Luckeyes. Every team is “up” for the Michigan game…….the legacy is that strong. The big ten is a brutal conference. Joe Paterno thought it would be a cake walk. How has PSU fared against a constant barrage of big ten opponents in the last ten years?

Just look at this year's results:

OSU, 12 and 0, ranked number 1
U of M, 11 and 1, ranked number 2
U of W, 11 and 1, ranked number 7

The two collective losses were to each other. Enough said.

IMO, Florida is an OK team that seems to be somewhat mistake prone. They will be used by OSU to mop the field on January 8. Michigan is currently one of the best U of M teams ever. They are the one team that could possibly beat OSU. Nobody is happier than Jim Tressel.

GW,

It would not happen again and the whole state of Ahia knows that.



Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Wins/losses, who they played?
Still comes down to this: MI just played OSU and lost. They had their shot and came up a little short.



Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiewan
They had their shot and came up a little short.


If the regular season and the BCS are considered one entity or process then you are correct. However, then I think it is time for a change. As I said above, develop a post season play off system or quit trying to crown a champion.

I see the regular season and the post season as two different time periods, which would not preclude another UM/OSU meeting. I want to think it is similar to pro football or most any other sport for that matter (although it does not appear to be, in which case you are correct). One opinion that I read stated that Pittsburgh won against two teams in the playoffs last year that had beaten them during the regular season. If the BCS logic were to be applied, Pittsburgh should have stayed home.

I see Michigan as the “wildcard” team that would (by some twist of fate) end up playing the conference champion in the final game. If the two best teams happen to be from the same conference, then it should be acceptable for them to play for the championship in the post season.

And BTW.......why isn't anyone mentioning 1996?

The consensus around here today is that it was completely unfair to drop Michigan in the polls for the last two weeks when they were not even playing. Schedule and length of season will also need to be addressed if a truly fair system is to develop.



Posted by: HajiWasAPunk---------------------

I do think UM got screwed in one sense. Jim Tressel apparently sustained from voting. That's hilarious, he said he respected both teams. I do expect UF to get beat by OSU and I think Tressel didn't want any part in another piece of UM.

Still I think UF's schedule was more difficult this year than UMs. They beat more ranked teams.

But this debate is exactly why we need a playoff. The BCS maybe a slight improvement over the past, but it sucks to see a sport where they use a scoreboard crown a champion in a manner more befitting gymnastics or figure skating.

And UM's ranking slipped because while they were at home collecting tissues to whip away the tears, UF was out playing an extra conference championship game. Had they lost, they would've fell in the polls.

woulda coulda shoulda



Posted by: Timr---------------------

I agree...with most everything that everyone is pointing out. The only upside is that this is the kind of chaos that is needed to force a change. I am glad that it's not the SEC champion, again, who is on the outside looking in. Look at all of the BCS screw ups: in 2003, the BCS forgot to invite the #1 team in both human polls (thanks computers), in 2001, the BCS sent Nebraska to the championship game after they were killed by Colorado (as a result of that game, Nebraska didn't even play in the Big 12 Championship game, nevermind winning the conf. championship), of course, there was the undefeated Auburn thing too. Yeah BCS!

BTW, the lack of Michigan games in the past couple of weeks is set up that way because that's the way that the Big 10 Commisioners set up the Big 10 schedule. No one stopped them (other than the conference) from scheduling the UM/OSU game from this past Saturday!

It would be great if the Big 10 played a championship game. Of course, as a conf, they don't meet the requirment of having 12 members...let's see who should they pick up? Here's an idea...why don't you get ND? Oh wait, I know, because that would stop their "rivalries" with Army, Navy, Air Force, the coast guard academy and the merchant marines!

Also, if ND were in a conf, they would be part of that conf's TV deal...that would put an end to their one-off deal with the Notre dame Broadcasting Channel (NBC)





Posted by: ur730im911---------------------

damn guys my ex girlfriend even has the yellow W tattoo done on her arm lol



Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Pardon my copy and paste job but this pretty much says it all

Quote:
The Joke Is On Michigan
December 5, 2006
There should be no BCS championship game on Jan. 8.

You read it right.

There should be a Rose Bowl game between the Big Ten and Pac-10 champions.

There, on the fashionable streets of Pasadena, the Ohio State cheerleaders can pull the Trojan warrior off his trusty Traveler and beat the armored stuffing out of him. There, on New Year's Day, Troy Smith, the real Man of Troy, can ease the No. 1 Buckeyes over USC and on to the finish line of a perfect season.

The writers, pounding away on their Royal typewriters, can proclaim Ohio State national champs.

The coaches, swearing off the forward pass as the devil's invention, can do the same.

And afterward, the nation and its sports-loving president can get back to worrying about the war - the Vietnam War, that is.

We're not really saying the old way of determining a national college football champion is any better than the new way.

Both are corrupt.

Both are imbecilic.

Anything short of a playoff is a charade.

What we continue to say is the powerful cartel that rules the sport should be ashamed. And every year we are reminded it's impossible to shame the shameless.

The hilarious thing about this season is it arguably would be fairer to use the old bowl system, no BCS rankings, no pseudo-title game. If the real integrity is in the week-to-week battle, as the power brokers argue, the Buckeyes have done more than enough to lay claim to No. 1. So just like in the old days, Michigan and Florida should have to win some other bowl and pray USC upsets Ohio State to lay their own claim to the mythical title.

Can't you see?

The BCS is such a powerful joke that it has a sports nation arguing who is a qualified runner-up to face the unquestioned No. 1 team in a pseudo-national title game.

This is the kind of stuff boxing does.

It's called matchmaking. It's hype. It's carnival-barking. It creates interest. It creates controversy. It sells.

Only in America could one of the great ruses in sports history like the BCS be allowed to continue. Don King should be BCS czar.

Last year the system did work with a legitimate showdown with Texas and USC. It also was somewhat of an aberration.

Usually there is one too few unbeaten teams or one too many. Two years ago, unbeaten Auburn got ripped off.

This year, Michigan got ripped off.

This is no slam at Florida, although Urban Meyer's uber-politicking was nauseating. After this campaign, don't be shocked when Karl Rove and James Carville are named assistant coaches somewhere.

Look, Florida playing for the national title is no outrage. The Gators deserve it.

Michigan not getting a chance to play for the national title is the outrage.

The Urban myth here is that there is a foolproof way to determine whether Florida or Michigan is better.

All the information was fed into a computer and the two teams came out even.

Humans decided and the resulting biases and presuppositions were embarrassing.

Michigan somehow became less worthy by not playing a game after its loss to Ohio State Nov. 18. We knew idle hands were the devil's workshop, but who would have guessed idle teams were, too?

When USC was in line for the BCS title game, the voters weren't nearly so in love with the Gators. USC was stunned by UCLA, Florida beat Arkansas by 10 in the SEC title game and - voila - Florida shoots past Michigan in both the Harris and USA Today polls with huge swings.

We understand that with a more complete body of work Florida is better positioned and the once-beaten Gators did have a tougher schedule, but how could Michigan drop so precipitously simply by not playing? And before that, how convenient was it to push USC past Michigan, too? The truth is, the Wolverines may have gotten jobbed twice.

One argument has been that a team should at least win its conference if it is going to win the national title.

In what sports bible is that written? What genius thought that one up? What honest person would employ that rationale if the job was to objectively select the best two teams in the nation?

Good grief, the Wolverines lost to Ohio State by three at Columbus. Any oddsmaker will tell you minus-3 is the cost of home advantage.

Why would a neutral-field showdown in the Arizona desert promise anything less than a thriller?

Which brings us to the most probable root of the problem: Too many folks apparently don't want a rematch.

Give somebody else a shot! That seems to be a common refrain. If the argument is rematches are boring - a concept that's difficult for me as a fan of sports history to fathom - that's called preference. If the agenda is to support some school or conference, that's called bias. Neither falls into objective analysis.

There's also wisdom that the voters went this way to make up for Auburn and the SEC getting jobbed in '04. Good grief, Mike Slive is both SEC commissioner and BCS coordinator.

And what of Ohio State coach Jim Tressel?

He refrained from voting in the last poll, not wanting to affect the outcome. Wait. He voted in every other poll this year. His agreement was to vote as honestly as possible. Did Tressel want to avoid voting for one school No. 2, having to play the other and that opponent using his snub as motivation?

These guys are in so deep it's impossible to be objective.

In the end, the college presidents, the alleged paragons of integrity, are the only ones who can stop the charade and force a legitimate playoff. They are the only ones who can direct their powerful conferences. They are the only ones who can trust-bust the business consortiums that use the bowls as tourist destinations to fuel local economies.

An eight-team playoff would mean the same amount of games for four schools that lose in the quarters, one more game for two schools that lose in the semis and two more games for the finalists. Every sport in every division - except I-A football - has a national championship and this one could be held almost entirely, if not entirely, between semester breaks. This season, Florida and Michigan would probably meet in the semis and the winner would likely face Ohio State. And if not, hey, upsets happen.

But you already know all this. Only the college presidents are oblivious. Or maybe they just hate rematches, too.

Contact Jeff Jacobs at

jjacobs@courant.com.




Posted by: cnielse5---------------------

How about that Boise state Oklahoma match up? I personally would love to see Boise state stay undefeated (Since was born and raised in Idaho). I doubt it though. Pred, you need to back me up here.



Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnielse5
Pred, you need to back me up here.

I most certainly will NOT back you up here. Who do you hate? BOISE STATE!!
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/at...tid=11274&stc=1



Posted by: motocross4life---------------------

go buckeyes! looks like florida's playing. read my signature.



Posted by: gwcrim---------------------

Quote:
This year, Michigan got ripped off.


*sniff, sniff*

Quote:
The truth is, the Wolverines may have gotten jobbed twice.


WAAAAAAA............

Could someone please pass me a box of tissues.





Posted by: cnielse5---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRpredator
I most certainly will NOT back you up here. Who do you hate? BOISE STATE!!
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/at...tid=11274&stc=1

Don't tell me You are a U of I Guy!



Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnielse5
Don't tell me You are a U of I Guy!

Class of '91

GO VANDALS!



Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwcrim
Could someone please pass me a box of tissues.


Yeah, yeah whatever. That’s pretty much what we have come to expect from a Duckeye……..or a Spartan for that matter.

Just go to Arizona and stomp on the 4th best team in the country and enjoy your “hard fought” national championship.





Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

until there's a playoff, there'll always be controversy.

and whining from the "coulda-beens"



Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

I will be rooting for the Big Ten!!
I sure hope there is no controversary with THIS national championship for OSU.
Without the convict Clarett the other championship would not have happened.

I agree with Badgerman - PLEASE stomp the #4!!



Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherandson
I will be rooting for the Big Ten!!
I sure hope there is no controversary with THIS national championship for OSU.
Without the convict Clarett the other championship would not have happened.

I agree with Badgerman - PLEASE stomp the #4!!


Speaking of Spartans!

Hey, Sweeprider and I are off tomorrow and may be lurking around the Lansing area……..gotta get the Christmas shopping done, if you know what I mean. Any recommendations on where to find some gifts for the kid? LOL!



Posted by: Timr---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerMan
Yeah, yeah whatever. That’s pretty much what we have come to expect from a Duckeye……..or a Spartan for that matter.

Just go to Arizona and stomp on the 4th best team in the country and enjoy your “hard fought” national championship.



This just in...Michigan stomps USC like a team that deserved a rematch and a shot at the national title!

I've searched all over and I can't seem to find the rest of this story...strange.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. No real malicious intent here.




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