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Rich .. and other "Street Shooters"...
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Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

A retoucher at work turned me on to this....

You really need to submit that Birdman capture!!!!!
http://www.doubleexposure.com/image...able/index.html

Scroll down towards the bottom.

I'm putting this one in, so ... you've GOT to submit yours.
Just don't forget us little people when you win it all.

http://bvostudio.com/full/people_dallas3.jpg

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Or this one? I'm torn between the two. Thoughts?

http://bvostudio.com/full/people_dallas2.jpg

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

BTW... the 15th (of this month) is the deadline...

Posted by: oldguy---------------------

Both great shots but in a contest you might have trouble with #1 without a waiver

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Crap! If you find a way to enter without having to frikin' PAY, let me know.
Sorry bro, thought it was ligit.

My bad.

Posted by: fatcat216---------------------

Okiewan, nice to see you putting up some street art. Thanks for sharing.

I'm equally torn on your photos. I'll overanalyze again the "why", since that is really the only talent I have.

The first one (to me)- captures loneliness and isolation so well. The second "despair". As a tandem, they capture my worst fears about life's march.

Thanks also for the web link. There's been a lot of neat photos posted here. I hope everyone will also post a copy here, like Okie did, so we can follow along.

Fats.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldguy

Both great shots but in a contest you might have trouble with #1 without a waiver

Not unless I would be paid.... at that point, I'd give it all to him and would damn sure make the effort to do so.

Posted by: fatcat216---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Crap! If you find a way to enter without having to frikin' PAY, let me know.
Sorry bro, thought it was ligit.

My bad.

Well, then maybe this should be a call out for a little exhibit here?

Posted by: fatcat216---------------------

This photo isn't in the same league, but it is with a similar spirit.
One of the "forgotten", the dregs, the castaways.

Showed more courage, dignity and humor in the face of trouble than anyone I will ever know. I hope you don't mind my little memorial here. It's a little nutty. (The photo was graciously retouched by a friend.)

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Bob - I'll be non-committal and say I liked the original version of photo 1 with the bird in the foreground best.

They are both outstanding shots but I've always liked that first one best. The lighting and his expression just really work for me.

Even Photo District News ( PDN ) & Popular Photography charge a small fee for each entry in a contest. I think they have to in an effort to weed out some of the truly awful submissions.

Whether or not you need a model release for a contest entry would seem to depend on what usage rights to the photo you give the people running the contest by entering. I'll read it later and see if I can figure it out.

I've looked into this a number of times and this article does a nice job of summing it up.

When Do You Need a Model Release?
Written by Rohn Engh

Full text here:
http://rising.blackstar.com/when-do...-release-5.html

and the highlights :

When Do You Need a Model Release?
Written by Rohn Engh
Tuesday, 01 January 2008

The recent case of Virgin Mobile using a Flickr photo in an ad campaign without the model's permission has once again raised the issue of model releases. When are they necessary, and when are they not required?

The rule of thumb is that editorial usage does not require a model release; however, advertising, promotion, and endorsement usage always requires a model release. Most amateurs are not familiar with their First Amendment rights and the fact that model releases are not required for editorial use -- so when a case like Virgin Mobile comes up, early-career photographers tend to panic.

To add to the confusion, some photo editors state that they require a model release when by law they don't need one. They often do this simply to weed out amateur photographers. Pro stock photographers know what's what concerning editorial usage. They ignore the reference to model releases and submit their photos, with or without model releases.

You'll find that photo editors at editorial markets will welcome any non-released photo that matches their current need (when they are going to use it for editorial purposes). Publishers fiercely protect their First Amendment rights. A policy of actually requiring model releases for publication could reduce the flow of quality photos coming into their publishing houses, which would greatly reduce their output, and might even put them out of business.

Since photo editors at most publishing houses hardly ever deal with advertising or other endorsement-type assignments, it's rare that they ever need a model release. When they do need a release, it's usually because they are working on a project of a particularly sensitive nature, such as drug abuse, mental retardation, sex education, etc. In those cases, it would be appropriate to ask for a model or property release.

We deal with dozens of photo editors daily here at PhotoSource International, from small regional magazines to national book publishers. Rarely do they ever ask for a model release. If one does, it throws up a red flag to us as an indication that the photo editor is new to the field of publishing and might not know, not only their rights, but your rights as well. We avoid publishing photo requests from such an editor.

I've met competent photographers who were unaware of their rights regarding model releases and other legal issues, and consequently took years before they got squared away and took the step to properly market their photography.

[Rohn Engh is publisher of PhotoStockNOTES from www.photosource.com. He is the founder of the PhotoSourceBANK, a website visited daily by hundreds of photobuyers, where photographers can list keywords describing their photos.]

It's funny that this came up now. Just the other day I ordered the book " Legal Handbook for Photographers - The Rights and Liabilities of Making Images"

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcat216

This photo isn't in the same league, but it is with a similar spirit.
One of the "forgotten", the dregs, the castaways.

Showed more courage, dignity and humor in the face of trouble than anyone I will ever know. I hope you don't mind my little memorial here. It's a little nutty. (The photo was graciously retouched by a friend.)

Don't sell it short, that's a fantastic shot.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

http://bvostudio.com/full/people_dallas4.jpg

Quote:

Bob - I'll be non-committal and say I liked the original version of photo 1 with the bird in the foreground best.

If I understand, I think you mean a different shot entirely?

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Rohrich

Don't sell it short, that's a fantastic shot.

That picture looks really familiar.

Ditto, nice shot!

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

If I understand, I think you mean a different shot entirely?

That's the one. That is such a good picture.

The bird shot, the Radiohead shot in BW and the two in this thread are in the words of Art Eckmann "bar to bar".

Your outstanding product shots might pay the bills but these pics are way cooler in my mind.

Posted by: fatcat216---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

http://bvostudio.com/full/people_dallas4.jpg If I understand, I think you mean a different shot entirely?

Okiewan,

I like this shot as well, although I won't say best. I have a slight preference for "series" though, so, when I see multiple things that work together...I rarely want to choose. Just arrange.

It reminds me a lot of watercolour paintings of alleys in Provence or Italy. I like the way the hall leads to the off camber wall, and the hazy institutional focus. It has a lot of "feel".

Rick has me wondering about the fourth shot. Radiohead?
Could you be persuaded to post it?

Very nice work.

Posted by: Kawidude---------------------

Did that pidgeon sign a release?

I really like the first shot posted here. Both (between the first and second) scream desperation, but the eye contact in the first one directs that desperation into my eyes. It's really powerful.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

You really need to submit that Birdman capture!!!!!
]

I agree.

That photo is a classic and needs to be seen.

Posted by: fatcat216---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawidude

Did that pidgeon sign a release?

Funny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawidude

... the eye contact in the first one directs that desperation into my eyes. It's really powerful.

Good assessment.

Kawi- was that you or someone else who posted the fisherman with tackle awhile back? You've had some good photos. Any photos to contribute to this concept?

Posted by: fatcat216---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

I agree.

That photo is a classic and needs to be seen.

double ditto that.

Posted by: SINGLETRAC---------------------

im not sure what " bird man" photo everyone is refering to,but if its the one with the fella sitting on the hydrant feeding the pigeons then i must agree. i cant see a pigeon now without that image flashing thru my mind. im not into photography (probably not even spelling it correctly) but that image has stuck with me, and that means alot coming from a cultureless redkneck.

Posted by: oldguy---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawidude

Did that pidgeon sign a release?

I had that coming and thanks Rich for posting that info. I was recently arguing with a person that sets up our advertising about a couple photos of mine he was using but he wanted signed releases. I tried to tell him that the riders were 1)not visually identifiable without doing a check on thier numbers, 2) I have never met a racer that was not more then happy to see their image anywhere. and 3) they were all club members and since it was an ad for the club i didn't think they were needed.
I did relent when he picked a photo of a 12 year old girl Flat tracker and when I called her dad his only request was that I give her a full size Print of the ad for her room.

Posted by: Bspeed---------------------

if you send it in, then my vote is the picture in the first post.

I like:
the eye contact.
the cleaner background.
the space in the foreground.

good luck

Posted by: Bspeed---------------------

in the 2nd image, I do now see the disparty of the melancholy dude versus the people in the back ground that seem to be having fun. But, I think that perhaps the background people need more focus.

"trying to think like a former college professor here" hehe.

either way, its good street work, bro.

Posted by: fatcat216---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by SINGLETRAC

im not sure what " bird man" photo everyone is refering to,but if its the one with the fella sitting on the hydrant feeding the pigeons then i must agree. i cant see a pigeon now without that image flashing thru my mind. im not into photography (probably not even spelling it correctly) but that image has stuck with me, and that means alot coming from a cultureless redkneck.

That's correct singletrack.

Okie- forgive the hijack.
http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=159815

I think between Okie's pigeon haze and Rick's, I won't be seeing pigeons the same way anymore.
(Reminds me of Mary Poppins-"toppins a bag".)

So Okiewan- which one are you going to submit?

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Thanks everyone for the great input .... it's nice to read that some get the same feelings I had/have about the shots.

To me, the "pigeon" shot is very cool... the crack, etc... all leading to the poor soul in the bg... however, I don't think it stands on it's own, ie; needs the other images in the series.

The first one "eye contact" is my favorite... probably due to the reaction I had looking thru the view finder realizing he was looking back... I had stayed in the background, not wanting to be noticed (like a 70-200 2.8 makes that easy, lol); then suddenly "discovered".

Frankly, I felt bad taking that shot, but got some relief knowing WHY I took those shots in the first place... not to make money, but to show real life as it is for some less fortunate. That shot, to me, is an "in-your-face, it's not all good out here" reality check. As in... we all know they are there, but do we really see them? In the big urban landscape, they are just fixtures... akin to a lamp post that you know is there, but never really look at... something you dodge in your hurry to get somewhere.

The other shot "face in hands". I named it "Only If" ... He started out just like the rest of us.. all it took were some bad decisions, bad "luck" if you believe in that kinda thing, to end-up right there on that bench. He can probably tell you in detail about each event that landed him there.

Bottom line, when I shoot street, its not to exploit, it's to attempt to show that these are still people, just one or two bad moves from living the same life "you" do. Whether my stuff instills thoughts such as these for others is neither here nor there... the camera allows me to capture feelings that I don't necessarily get when I see the homeless with just my eyes. Kinda all that matters.

< Spew off >

Posted by: Kawidude---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcat216

Funny.

Good assessment.

Kawi- was that you or someone else who posted the fisherman with tackle awhile back? You've had some good photos. Any photos to contribute to this concept?

Thanks for the kind words fatcat. I don't have many shots that would fit the category, and certainly none that approach the quality of Okie and Rich's images.

I believe Bspeed was the one who posted the images of the fisherman. Those were great shots too.

Posted by: Kawidude---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Thanks everyone for the great input .... it's nice to read that some get the same feelings I had/have about the shots.

To me, the "pigeon" shot is very cool... the crack, etc... all leading to the poor soul in the bg... however, I don't think it stands on it's own, ie; needs the other images in the series.

The first one "eye contact" is my favorite... probably due to the reaction I had looking thru the view finder realizing he was looking back... I had stayed in the background, not wanting to be noticed (like a 70-200 2.8 makes that easy, lol); then suddenly "discovered".

Frankly, I felt bad taking that shot, but got some relief knowing WHY I took those shots in the first place... not to make money, but to show real life as it is for some less fortunate. That shot, to me, is an "in-your-face, it's not all good out here" reality check. As in... we all know they are there, but do we really see them? In the big urban landscape, they are just fixtures... akin to a lamp post that you know is there, but never really look at... something you dodge in your hurry to get somewhere.

The other shot "face in hands". I named it "Only If" ... He started out just like the rest of us.. all it took were some bad decisions, bad "luck" if you believe in that kinda thing, to end-up right there on that bench. He can probably tell you in detail about each event that landed him there.

Bottom line, when I shoot street, its not to exploit, it's to attempt to show that these are still people, just one or two bad moves from living the same life "you" do. Whether my stuff instills thoughts such as these for others is neither here nor there... the camera allows me to capture feelings that I don't necessarily get when I see the homeless with just my eyes. Kinda all that matters.

< Spew off >

Very interesting Okie. I think you helped spark a though for me on the first image with the eye contact. I look at it again and realize that it almost gives me an uncomfortable feeling deep down inside. I can almost put myself in your shoes when you shot that and wonder what my reaction might have been had he lifted his head and and looked in my eyes. I totally get what you're going for with these shots and I think they're important to capture. Sometimes images that make me slightly uncomfortable help to pull my head out of the "comfort zone" that I spend most of my day in.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

The first one "eye contact" is my favorite... probably due to the reaction I had looking thru the view finder realizing he was looking back... I had stayed in the background, not wanting to be noticed (like a 70-200 2.8 makes that easy, lol); then suddenly "discovered".

>

Bob.

That one is my favorite too. To me it shows the empty hallway and the empty look of desperation in the mans face. That, along with the prison garb tells a story of a very empty life gone wrong.

Good job.

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Rich .. and other "Street Shooters"...

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