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Furnace repair "racket"
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Posted by: holeshot---------------------

Ok .. my home is about 17 years old and everything is failing and needing repair - the latest thing to fritz is the furnace (heat).

It works intermittently .. I'll wiggle a wire here, tap tap something there or just give an evil stare and the thing starts up.

So I call a few furnace repair guys (they all had a service charge) and the first thing say is, "ahh , your furnace is too old, you should just get a new one for 1600 bucks. By the time you call us out a few times on this old one, it could cost you 3000$ in parts". bla, bla bla.

So I solicited someone. He tried one part, claiming it was new (but it was probably just taken from my neighbor when they called for repairs). We finally settle on a new control valve - the guy tells me, "Ok if I put this in, I'm not taking it out again - if it works then you pay me 350 bucks - if it doesn't work, then you only pay me 200 bucks" I say ok and he installs it (about 10 minutes work) and the furnace appears to be working. I pay the guy and he looks at me with a smirk, "be prepared for a cold cold winter ...ahaha. You should really get a new furnace from us." He quickly left.

Of course, that wasn't the problem at all (it still works intermittently). But he's got my 350 bucks and I have a feeling the valve he put in isn't new as he claimed.

My whole issue with these guys is that they don't really seem interested in repairing your stuff - they're just interested in seeing how they can scam you best and then chuckle about it later over coffee (or beer). They're "licensed to steal".

I'm in the wrong biz - this heating and cooling repair stuff is lucrative - I wonder how I can get in on it?

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

There are lots of parts houses that specialize in furnaces. I had a blower motor problem and saved about $400 by buying one at jobber price and changing it out myself.
There is a Marcone warehouse close by that I can get anything at all for appliances, and their online catalog is great.
Fix-it-yourself parts places usually get the parts at same price we can, but they will provide great help explaining things.

Posted by: holeshot---------------------

I will try and find a place to sell me parts and just replace until I get it right. (this is what the repair guys do anyway). It's better than having leeches charging silly prices for parts that can be replaced by anyone.

Thanks for the info.

Posted by: Isobareng---------------------

An intermittent problem like you reported is 9 times out of 10 a bad connection at a terminal block or connector. a quick way to tell which wire is the culprit is to set your furnace controls to demand heat. using a wooden tooth pick gently press on each wire from the back of the connector and wait for a heater start sequence the bad connection should revel itself.

also you may have to put a bit of tape over the door shut off switch during the test

hope this helps

Posted by: gettrac---------------------

A couple of HVAC classes at the local junior college will usually pay for itself..... and it's good for the marital relations when the wife isn't cold all night....lol.

Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------

If you know a guy that can bend you some duct work, changing it out is a piece of cake. Safety and cheaper gas bills can pay off. Newer efficient furnaces intake and exhaust straight out the house in pvc, bye bye chimney in a lot of cases.

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by holeshot

I will try and find a place to sell me parts and just replace until I get it right.

www.grainger.com

these guys got purt near everything

Posted by: sparkysakitas---------------------

check the contactor on the electrical side of your furnace sounds like it is sticking open

Posted by: Patman---------------------

I look at it this way. I know what I make an hour and I know what my employer charges for my time per hour, the difference pays for my benifits, equipment, office, support staff and of course profit. The same applies to the guy fixing furnaces his employer has costs associated with him running around fixing things people can't or don't want to fix themselves. I had a similar situation last month. No hot water on a very cold day. So I can either go get a new water heater for $425, remove the old one, carry it downstairs and throw it in my truck then haul the new one upstairs, switch it over to LP from NG and install it, then haul the old one off to a dump OR I can pay the plumber $600 to do it. I ended up getting a better quality unit than I could have purchased at Lowe's/Home Depot, didn't miss a day of work when I had a ton of stuff to do and didn't have to mess with disposing of the old one. Sure the guys had to of made more than the difference but I really don't care because I didn't have to deal with it. The flip side is I could have spent $1,000 getting the barakes system on my Bronco totally overhauled with average componants or I could spend $500 and a few hours doing it myself with much better parts. Since there was no pressure to get it done (it's a spare vehicle) and I happen to enjoy doing my own mechanical work I did it myself. Bottom line is that you can try and fix things yourself or you can pay somebody to do it. Sure they may be as clueless as you but they are motivated to do a job you chose not to and I can accept that I will need to pay somebody fairly to do this.

BTW it was a bad thermocouple on the water heater and I knew it was but it sits above my master bedroom and was 6.5 years old filled with well water. The chance of it blowing out in the next couple years was pretty high so replacing it now and avoiding the water damage was my reasoning. The plumber was really pushing for the $125 repair but I insisded on the replacment to avoid the greater expense down the road because we had one blow at our old house. Sort of preventative maintenance.

Posted by: oldguy---------------------

I'll never understand why you Texans put your water heaters in the attic where they can spew all over

Put em in the basement where they belong

Couple years ago our furnace/AC, 15 years old, started nickel and diming us with constant repairs. I had another member at the track over hear me talking to another guy about it and how I was fed up with it. He came over and looked at the system and after inspecting it said besides being pretty much worn out that many of the past repairs were causing the newer problems. He gave me a price for an all new system (side job for him but his agreement with his employer was if he bought it from the shop and then paid the shop $100 they would fully warranty it) and told me to call around for estimates but to be sure evryone quoted the same quality system. No one came within $1000 of his price and many said I was looking at way to high end equipment. Soon after he came out hauled away all the old system and installed the new one. For the first time I could ever remember I could not hear everytime either the heat or A/C kicked in. Unfortunately 3 months later we found out we were going to relocat but when we listed the house the Realtor really was impressed with the new system as were the first people to look at the house (they bought it). Don't know if the system sold the house but it sure did not hurt.
Check aroud and see if there are any guys with recomendations that would do a side job and if they can work the deal with their boss- He still sells the unit and makes the money to cover the warranty

Posted by: Patman---------------------

Well if you lived on a rock you too wouldn't have a basement LOL! Next house will be MY way, all equipment in a room off the garage.

Anyway I was thinking a bit more and have a similar suggestion to Oldguy. Check around at the tracks or places you ride, often you'll find somebody that does what you need and with a coomon bond you can often get good service and priceing. For example: My Internet provider rides and live down the road from me, I chose him first because it was the only high speed option in the remote area I live in and then we both found out about dirt biking when he showed up to oversee the install. Turns out the installer also rides! I get awesome service whenever I have an issue and even a few extra perks for no charge. When we built out current home I opted out of letting the contractor do the deck because a club member was a deck builder. Again I got an awesome end product with excellent materials for an exception price! I just sold a Pit Viper MX125 rolling chassis to a local rider/DRN member for a smokin' price because of the common bond of DRN. The only reason I didn't go this same route on the water heater was because I needed it done ASAP.

Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------

What goes up, must come down. Around 500 pounds with water for a 40 gallon heater, sure hope no manmade prodcts were used in construction, like osb sheathing. Got a metal pan under it with a 1 inch drain, that will not drain quick enough for a full leak, outstanding! Must be some beefy headers to hold that up in a small area. Do you have one of the newer gas sealed burner water heaters? They make 3 styles, draws air from the sides, draws air from the bottom, and power vents, they exhaust outside by a blower. The ones that breath off the bottom are the biggest joke there is, well besides the flash heaters they advertise from menards. they serve 1 fixture, read the fine print. Electric heaters are still not worthy either. The bottom feeders have a fine screen in the bottom, it is not big enough and clogs from debris very quickly. If you have one look at the flame when it is on, yellow flame, not enough oxygen. And will destroy the thermal couple. To be building a new home now and not dumping the money into a full boiler system is throwing potential money away. The only system that is economical and will truly save you money in the long run. The heating and air industry is getting the job of being responsible for the newly found issues of providing enough clean air inside homes that are sealed tight and have flame burning appliances. Your furnace is stealing your air! Commercial buildings have had air handling units for years, go figure. Never forget, fools with tools are everywhere!

Posted by: holeshot---------------------

I reconnected the spark wire onto it's barb (works almost like a motorcycle spark) and the thing seems to be working now. Maybe that was the problem or maybe it's possessed.

I've already replaced the water heater. I guess this is more of a flame towards aging appliances than repair services.

I miss the good old days when I was a carefree renter.

Posted by: Lorin---------------------

One thing I found recently when my heater stopped working was that the web has a TON of information. I googled my heater model, then input the symptoms, then found detailed information on possible issues, repairs, etc., to troubleshoot the problem. With this information, I was able to narrow the problem down in less than an hour. Problem ended up being a bad igniter. Short trip to the local supply store, and $50 later, and I was up and running again. That said, I do agree that the options are limited: 1. do it yourself and take your chances, or 2. pay someone else and be done. My determining factor was the potential amount of money it might have cost upfront IF I had come across someone looking to "make a fast dollar" at my expense.

Posted by: Clint3240---------------------

i repair heat and a/c, not giving enough info, by the controll valve do you mean the gas valve? the guy that came to your house must not know much, 17 yr old systems are pretty basic, what kind is it? this is a late post so i dunno if you took care fo this issue. you said it has a spark igniton? the controll board for that has relays in it that will stop working after a while, or the flame sencor could not be working correctly, need more info on heater.

Posted by: holeshot---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clint3240

i repair heat and a/c, not giving enough info, by the controll valve do you mean the gas valve? the guy that came to your house must not know much, 17 yr old systems are pretty basic, what kind is it? this is a late post so i dunno if you took care fo this issue. you said it has a spark igniton? the controll board for that has relays in it that will stop working after a while, or the flame sencor could not be working correctly, need more info on heater.

It was the spark ignition module, 100% lockout (the module that the ignition wire originates from). We thought this the problem from the get-go, but the guy tried part in that was obviously used (judging from the yellowed sticker on the so called "new" module). I went to a store that sells this stuff and bought a true new module - presto, works like new. Anyone need a slightly used gas valve?

You're right, these things are pretty basic. Gotta get back to something more interesting. (like motorcycles).

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Furnace repair "racket"

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