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States that provide ORV
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Posted by: Shaw520---------------------

I wouldnt normaly rant about something like this online, but maybe someone can inlighten me.;
I spend a fair amount of time in Colorado where the OHV system caters to dirtbikers, atv, jeeps and the like,.. providing many places to endulge.
And then you have states like NY,...... for the people that dont know, NY is a very large state with hundreds of thousands of 'state owned' wilderness/acres. When you purchase a motorcyle (ORV) in NY you pay anywhere from 6-9 percent sales tax, you are also required to register it as an ORV and pay the state another $15 per year. Yet NY provides nothing, not one acre, for legal off road vehicles. In fact they mention something in the laws about it being 'unlawful' to operate any motorized vehicle on any State lands. The only legal area's to ride are privately owned lands holding events that are sanctioned, or waivered, or payed for, ect.
Now heres the kicker,.. NY state does not require you to have a motorcycle drivers liscense to register and purchase a motorcycle. So some fool can go buy any YZFR 1100, leave the dealer parking lot, and kill himself or possible someone, (more likely himself).
Which exactly what happened here the other day at a local dealer, (in the parking lot!)... and what spurred me to write this rant.

Posted by: ysr89---------------------

I know what you're saying, I don't understand why states close riding areas, but don't open any new ones. I live in NH, a HEAVILY wooded state, and there are very few places to ride. If states opened riding areas, and charged maybe $10 admission, they would make a killing!

Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

I live in California, and the state has it's own system of parks, the State Vehicle Recreation Areas (SVRA's). http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/ This is in addition to the opportunities we have to ride on national forests and BLM land. Hollister, Carnegie and Hungry Valley (Gorman) are SVRA's.

Unfortunately, the state has not expanded its SVRA system since the 1970's, despite collecting funds to do so from our OHV registrations. A large park was proposed for near where I live, but it was shot down and the state bailed out at the first hint of opposition. A large addition to Carnegie was bought and paid for, but never opened. Basically, it looks like they will never build/acquire another SVRA in California.

Posted by: Patman---------------------

I think alot of it has to do with a few different closely related issues. People are generally more inclined to complain than get involved. The AMA has proven pretty worthless for the vast majority of us off road users. Most of the politicos are crooks. And the greenies are more organized than we are.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaw520

When you purchase a motorcyle (ORV) in NY you pay anywhere from 6-9 percent sales tax, you are also required to register it as an ORV and pay the state another $15 per year. Yet NY provides nothing, not one acre, for legal off road vehicles. In fact they mention something in the laws about it being 'unlawful' to operate any motorized vehicle on any State lands. The only legal area's to ride are privately owned lands holding events that are sanctioned, or waivered, or payed for, :

Sounds like Riverside county California. Here in lovely Riverside county, we have just about the largest population of registered off road vehicles in the whole state. But, we have the worst excuse for a ohv park in all of the state. Wildamar (sp), twenty whole acres of a rutted out sandstone hill side. The whole area can be covered by an inexperienced beginner in less than one hour. It is located in an area that most people can't even find. It is a dangerous and ridiculous excuse for a ohv park. Here our green sticker funds are used to fund the police department for their fancy Ford diesel hauler, their fancy toy-box trailer and all of their expensive Polaris quads. They are paid through our green sticker funds ($160.000) to ride the hills and give us tickets. (That is, if you stop for them.) Other countys have very nice and well maintained riding areas and use the money in the way it was intended to be used but not Riverside county. In Riverside county they use the money against us.

The enviro wacko's use our green sticker funds to protect animal and plant species and provide buffer zones around cycle parks that don't even exist. They use it for everything except what it was intended for. Going to meeting and trying to change this is fruitless. After attending countless meetings and writing countless letters, I have given up. We have had private landowners try to open ohv areas at their own expense on land they own. The county has made it so hard and expensive for them to do this, they have given up. We are told that a certain area cannot be used for a ohv park because there are endangered plants or animals on the property and we can't do that. But, six months later they are bulldozing the plants and animals to make room for new homes. Lying bastages!!

In the past we have even had to sue the Governor of the state for stealing our green sticker funds and using them in the general fund.

After paying these fees since they first came into existence over 35 years ago, I am taking a new approach. I have dualsported my thumpers and have put the rest of my green sticker vehicles on certificate of non operation. That means I don't have to pay the green sticker fees as long as the machine is not operated. Since I only operate them on private property or paid private tracks, they can take their green sticker funds and stick them where the sun don't shine. If I want to ride at a green sticker park I will take one of my street licensed thumpers. If I want to ride one of my green sticker machines, I will haul it in my enclosed trailer to a private riding area. Perfectly legal.

We are getting screwed, over and over. I am tired of obeying the law and still getting screwed and now to add insult to injury they have doubled the green sticker fees to $ 50.00 for each vehicle. I will ride when I want and where the hell I want and they can take their green sticker fees and shove em'.

It's time for some civil disobedience in this country. We are getting screwed by almost everyone we deal with. From the Federal government on down. Very few people will take the time out of their busy days to attend a meeting or even write a letter. They figure their time is more important and sombody else will do it for them. Maybe we deserve what we are getting. We will drive many miles to ride or even to buy a part for our machines, but won't drive 30 miles to an important meeting.

If people don't start to stand up for themselves and for what is right we won't have anyplace to ride. We will be branded as criminals for trying to enjoy our sport. This is already happening in many places.

At this point and time in my life I really don't care what the rest of you do. I'm going riding. Legal or not.

Ol'89r

Posted by: holeshot---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

But, we have the worst excuse for a ohv park in all of the state. Wildamar (sp), twenty whole acres of a rutted out sandstone hill side. It is located in an area that most people can't even find.
Ol'89r

Yeah..I went to that place once. There were no signs, but I evently found it when I stopped and asked directions. Most locals don't know where it is.

Then when I finally got there, I saw a sign that said I needed a forestry adventure pass. There were boxes there that you could stuff money into if you didn't have a pass, but after looking at the place, I figured they could stuff it. Didn't even take the bike off the trailer.

I remember reading the "reader's write" section in a magazine back in the seventies (when the green sticker thing just started). Some guy wrote in and was ranting that the green sticker funds were just a method to corral and regulate riders and that people were lunatics if they thought the funds were for the rider's benefit. The prophecy has come true.

Posted by: Shaw520---------------------

I agree with you whole heartedly 89er, I have been raising my children to respect the law and our enforcement authorities, (both my kids are now 15/16 and they ride),. but its getting harder to do that when they continue to take advantage of our rights, and make me out to be the 'unlawful' one.
NY state charges sales tax EVERYTIME the vehicle is sold, so depending on how many times the vehicle is sold, the state could have made several thousand dollars on one vehicle. Yet there hasnt been one dime of that money spent on providing a legal place to ride. In fact they are using THAT money to buy quads and wait in the woods to give us even more expensive violation fines. I was recently handed a $180 fine for no insurance on my bike, I tried to explain to the officer that you cannot buy insurance for an 'offroad use only' vehicle, he told me to explain it to the judge. Making outlaws out of what were once good law abeiding folks.
I have lost complete respect for our law enforcement system here in NY, Its one thing to put these laws on the books in the event they are needed, but thats not what is happening. They're abusing these laws to pile revenue. sad

Like I have previously stated, I have logged many offroad miles in Colorado and have not been disapointed with their system, it works.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaw520

NY state charges sales tax EVERYTIME the vehicle is sold, so depending on how many times the vehicle is sold, the state could have made several thousand dollars on one vehicle. Yet there hasnt been one dime of that money spent on providing a legal place to ride. In fact they are using THAT money to buy quads and wait in the woods to give us even more expensive violation fines. Its one thing to put these laws on the books in the event they are needed, but thats not what is happening. They're abusing these laws to pile revenue. sad
.

We also have the 'used tax' here in California Shaw. Every time a bike is sold, it is taxed. On top of that, like holeshot pointed out we have the adventure pass fee. We have to buy green/red stickers for our ohv's and also buy an adventure pass to park our tow vehicles in the national forest. Tax on top of tax. How many ways can they figure out to tax us for the same thing?

The local sheriff has found us as a source of income. Before they stole our green sticker fees and bought their quads, the trails up in the hills were barely visible from the freeway. They were narrow single track trails not any wider than a rabbit trail. Now, since the sheriff has been riding their quads up there, all of the trails are two track and wider. They can be clearly seen from the freeway now and this attracts the four wheelers which makes them even wider. Guess who is getting blamed for this? That's right, the dirtbikers.

The local paper is full of letters to the editor about how those nasty dirtbikers are cutting up the hills. When we write a letter to the editor explaining the truth, it doesn't get printed.

I have had a complete butt-full of this crap and I'm not going to take it any longer. I will gladly pay a fine, (if I get caught) rather than play this game any more. It will cost me less in the long run than paying all of the fees on top of fees, year after year. All for nothing. And if it comes to it, I will move out of the state of Kalifornia.

I read in the paper last week about how the enviro nazis are trying to stop the expansion of fort Irwin to protect the desert turtle. The army told them to take a hike because we are in a time of war and the army thinks tank training is more important than protecting the turtle. So, the enviro nazis are going to move the desert turtles to another location. A desert turtle stores its fluids so it can get through the hot summer. When you pick one up, it pees. When it expels it fluids it becomes susceptible to disease and also has to go out of it's hiding place to find more water or moisture. When it does this it becomes prey to ravens. They did this before back in the early 80's and it greatly reduced the turtle population but, they are too arrogant and full of themselves to see what they did wrong. Well, the inviro wacko's answer to this is to shoot the ravens. If I remember correctly, a raven or crow is an endangered species. There is a big fine for shooting one of them. So, who decides which endangered species trumps another? The enviro wacko's have a grant for $200,000 a year to kill 200 ravens per year. That figures out to about $1,000 per bird. But we can't use the money that we, in good faith, paid into our green sticker fund for what it was intended for. The whole freakin world has gone mad.

If we don't start standing up for ourselves I shudder to think what kind of world we will live in in 20 years.

Posted by: a454elk---------------------

Terry, you should really learn to let out those feelings and stop holding things in. And it's WildOmar silly. If you can't spell it, don't ride there!

If anyone has the California OHV stuff figured out, it's be 89r. And I add that he's one of the few, unfortunately, that have done things about it. Like Pantsman said, people whine about it but do nothing to help. At least Riverside County has ONE park to ride in, try living in the depressed nation known as the OC. All we have is the real housewives and they ain't so real. Damn the 909.

Posted by: Shaw520---------------------

Here's some interesting reading for you, we may be in different states, but its the same BS. A NYOHV trail fund was established in 1990 but not one dime of that money went toward one single trail.

http://www.nysorva.org/legislation/TFestablished.htm

Posted by: Shaw520---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

I will gladly pay a fine, (if I get caught) rather than play this game any more. It will cost me less in the long run than paying all of the fees on top of fees, year after year. All for nothing. And if it comes to it, I will move out of the state of Kalifornia.

This is what it has come down to hear as well, the hard part is trying to set a good example when Im riding with my kids. In the past I would have glady stoped for and officer and show my registration, and as long as there havnt been any land owners complaints, that would be the end of it, "have a nice day sir", but on two recent occasion's, As I gladly approached an officer to chat or show my papers, I have recieved summons for 'unlawful tresspass' and 'No Insurance', costing me a total of $360. And had I of been with my kids, that would have $360 X 3 = $1080
Now I ride more 'focused on the trail' at my 'usual pace', and I never see any cops.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by a454elk

Terry, you should really learn to let out those feelings and stop holding things in. And it's WildOmar silly. If you can't spell it, don't ride there!
Damn the 909.

It's 951 you goofey copper.

Get it right.

Sorry elk but I really have had enough. You know I have always tried to do things the right/legal way. But, after a lifetime of watching our rights being taken from us and nobody doing anything about it, my entire attitude has changed. When I first got into this sport we had to fight off the image of the Hells Angels. When we would pull up next to a car at an intersection, the young mother driving would roll the windows up and tell her kids, "don't look at them". Now, many forms of motorcycle racing are becoming mainstream and on tv and we are more accepted by the general public. But, the inviro nuts still consider us as outlaws. I am sick and tired of being looked at as an outlaw just for enjoying my sport. If I am going to be treated like one I might as well act like one.

Pantsless is correct. The AMA is absolutely worthless when it comes to protecting our rights. They are too busy protecting the rights of helmetless harley riders to care about off roaders. And I'm not talking about the AMA districts. Like here in District 37 there are many hard working people trying to make a difference but they get no support from Ohio.

Very few dealers will go out of their way to attend a meeting or do anything to help the issue. Malcom Smith and a few others are involved but the others are too busy making money to care. Even though their futures are at stake. The dealers should be making every person that buys a dirtbike from them aware of what is going on and what they can do about it. But instead, they hide the fact that there may not be a place to ride your new $7,000 dirtbike for fear that people won't buy them if they really knew what was going on.

The people in charge of the Green Sticker fund are now greenies. They have managed to work their way into the program and now they call the shots as to where and when a park is developed. As you may have noticed, no new parks are being developed and many of the existing one's are being reduced in size. Like holeshot pointed out, now they put us into smaller and smaller areas and say, "Oh, look at the damage those ohv'ers are doing to that area".

The police are stuck in the middle. I know and ride with a few of them and I know many of them feel the same way I do. They are just doing their jobs and can't be a vocal as we can as citizens.

The biggest problem is with the riders themselves. Today we have the internet and the ability to organize ourselves like we have never had before. But, getting someone to attend a meeting is like pulling teeth. We are a huge force to deal with if we could only get organized. We could be packing the council chambers at every meeting and showing the commissioners and planners just how big we really are. But we're not doing that. Nobody wants to step outside of their own little comfort zones to do anything. Don't want to miss their favorite tv show. A few people will join a group and send money but they aren't willing to actually get off their butts and do something.

What is happening here and in Shaws state is nothing new. It is happening in many states. The states like Colorado and Idaho and others that provide trails do so because it helps their economy. Off roaders spend a lot of money in those little towns when they come to ride. The towns see this and cater to the off roaders. It's all about the money and we spend a hell of a lot of it on our sport.

I'm considerably older than most of you and what I have seen in my lifetime as far as losing riding areas is frightening. I really feel sorry for many of you because the way things are going, in twenty years there will be no legal place to ride. If your not willing to step up and be pro-active, you might as well chrome your dirt bikes and find a nice place to display them above your mantle.

Stick a fork in this one, I'm done.

Posted by: Shaw520---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

Stick a fork in this one, I'm done.

Hang in there bud,... your words are not in vien, its just a matter of time before everyone experiences this feeling at some point, and with the incredible help from the interenet, it will get heard..... Although it will take time

A new bill has recently been passed here in NY to get $875,000. back of the 2.5 million that the state 'stole' from the OHV budget between 1990 and 2005. There is a long ways to go and we are only scratching the surface, but if nothing other, maybe we can at least stop it from spreading to Co. & Idaho & some of the other OHV friendly states.
One of the big issues is enforcement,... states shouldnt be allowed to supplement other 'chosen' budgets through monies made by law enforcement fines and surcharges. (its not Elks fault) This in itself is a major problem everywhere (On Highway and off) and an area in need of great reform.
It is frustrating 89er,.. maybe our children's children will find SOME help through our efforts.

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States that provide ORV

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