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Dirty old Mortgages.....
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Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

Gidday people

Way over here in Neuvo Zealanda we get pretty good coverage of the worlds news and it looks like you could be in for a tough financial time in the next few years... oil, finance, military costs and a weak dollar

Any of you caught in the prime mortgage disaster?

Not that I can probably help, but the DRN guys seem to be a good lot... maybe they could offer up some advice???

Like don't borrow 100% of your mortgage!!!!

(sorry - call that tough love

)

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Yeah times are a little rough. But this IS the land of opportuninty. There seems to be a growing number of us that seem to think someone owes them something. If we do go through what you are stating, that'll seperate the "doers" from the "slackers." Then and only then will we get back to a thriving America (people that APPRECIATE the opportunity.) It's probobly just what we need. I think we'll be ok. NEVER has there been another country that has helped those in need like we do........THAT has always been true, weather tough times or not. I'm not entirely clear of the agenda behind your comment, but it doesn't smell real good.

Posted by: oldguy---------------------

Can't blame the mortgage but often will blame the fool that took way to much. When my wife and I relocated she went in and filled out the pre approval loan app so we knew what we could safely look at. when they got back to us and said we were approved for a loan of over $350K we both said you have got to be kidding. The loan officer looked at us and said "oh no that isn't for both of you we only figured in (my wifes's) income because I was retired". No way with our combined income would we ever look to borrowing any where near that amount nor did we need to to find a very comfortable home. The problem comes in where peolpe think well the bank said we could do it so we did and then realize they can't afford to heat, furnish, or vacation away from their home.
Credit is just to dam easy for anyone to get- seems it does not need to be earned anymore

2 strokes you hit it right on there may be hard times coming but the world can rest assured we will weather it and in the process see to it that the world stays safe because we are there

Posted by: Shaw520---------------------

Weed out the weak,.... mother natures way. (just hope I dont get weeded) LOL

Posted by: SpDyKen---------------------

Yea, and if you only pay the "interest only" on a mortgage, (after borrowing 100% of the money to buy a house,) that you are going to likely owe more on the house than it is worth.

DUH!

Posted by: robwbright---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldguy

Credit is just to dam easy for anyone to get- seems it does not need to be earned anymore

Those crazy banks. . . Only keep 10% of the money on hand. . . Loan to sub 600 credit scores. . . Don't get me started on the fiat (see counterfeit) printing press at the Federal Reserve. (Did you know that if you price oil relative to gold, oil has hardly raised in price in the last 5 years? It's relative to the dollar that's making it high.)

The things that makes me sick is the government using taxpayer money to bail out private companies that made bad decisions. Suck it up and take the losses.

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

I'm not entirely clear of the agenda behind your comment, but it doesn't smell real good.

No agenda dude - I'd just spit it out if I wanted to say something

I'm just going through the process of "negotiating" a new mortgage rate with my bank as we had a fixed interest rate over the last 5 years - of about 7%, but our new rate will be more lilke 10% as the country has had some financial trouble too...

Some of that is due to our dollar becomong more valuable against the big currencies like the US... to give you an example, our dollar usually buys about 60 US cents - for the last year we've been able to exchange our dollar for 80 US cents... that's a big swing! If I was an exporter that means my cost have gone up by over 30% - just to keep doing what I was doing.... tsk tsk.

And since our econmoy relies on exports that makes life tough for exporters - great for importers but it has driven up the interest rates and caused a housing downturn too... it's all looking pretty sad.

Funny thing is the banks are not being asked to lend as much as they used to (people are not borrowing because mortgage interest is so high) so in a bizarre twist, if you ask for a loan they GLADLY give you as much or more than you need???

How does that help Joe Dirt Bike buy his next set of wheels?

John

PS What do you guys pay in interest on your mortgage / Credit card? I think my CC interest is about 19% - mortgage going to be 10%

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

There seems to be a growing number of us that seem to think someone owes them something.

Great comment! Couldn't agree more.

Posted by: BSWIFT---------------------

The mortgage mess is due to bad business practices edging on illegality. Those who took on these mortgages were just plain greedy. Wanting to live a champaign lifetsyle on a beer budget is pretty vain. Add in a couple of $30,000 SUV's, a plazma HD tv and iPhone's for the whole family and you have yourself a bankrupcy in the making. Let them take the hit, tough road but only fitting while the rest of us do things with a bit of smarts.

Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSWIFT

The mortgage mess is due to bad business practices edging on illegality. Those who took on these mortgages were just plain greedy. Wanting to live a champaign lifetsyle on a beer budget is pretty vain. Add in a couple of $30,000 SUV's, a plazma HD tv and iPhone's for the whole family and you have yourself a bankrupcy in the making. Let them take the hit, tough road but only fitting while the rest of us do things with a bit of smarts.

Yep, I believe it's "come to Jesus time" for a select group of folks who have been living beyond their means. The sad part is what this mess has done to property values, although I suspect that a “correction” may have been over-due. It’s a great time to buy a home…..as long as you don’t have to sell one too.

Posted by: RM_guy---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwijohn

...PS What do you guys pay in interest on your mortgage / Credit card? I think my CC interest is about 19% - mortgage going to be 10%

I just got a 15 year mortgage for 5.25% at my local Credit Union. The 30 year rate is 5.875%. Where I live the banks are fairly conservative and we never got mixed up in the sub-prime crap. They are willing to loan and the market is starting to pick up again.

Being an engineer I have an extensive spreadsheet that I use to track all of my expenses and income. I've been told I am being anal but I know exactly what I can and can't afford.

Nothing pisses me off more than people that make one of the biggest decisions in their life without doing their homework and then expect the government (YOU and ME) to bail them out. It's a free country and you are just a free to make good decisions as well bad ones but don't come crying to me if you make a bad one. Sounds harsh but I really don't care to help those who won't help themselves. I'm a charitable guy but I'll decide who I'm charitable too.

Posted by: Shaw520---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwijohn

PS What do you guys pay in interest on your mortgage / Credit card? I think my CC interest is about 19% - mortgage going to be 10%

Rates are down here, with good credit score you can get a 6% mortgage rate. But like previously stated, so is the housing down. So if you need to sell before you can purchase,... its a catch 20
Although, if one was a smart consumer during the hay day and didnt use up every ounce of equity built into there home,... now is a good time to buy a second/income home.

Posted by: Shaw520---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RM_guy

and the market is starting to pick up again.

Thats some positive thinking Dave,... but I think we're in for a longer 'correction'. These over-priced McMansion's down here are continuing to loose value.

Posted by: RM_guy---------------------

We never had the run on home prices that happened in other parts of the country. Prices didn't go up much but they didn't drop off the charts either. I do know that my bank is currently busy with lots of loan applications and my realtor tells me she is getting a lot more traffic.

There were some articles in the local paper discussing how we weren't affected by the sub-prime fiasco but when people listen to the national news and hear the gloom and doom they thing the same thing is happening at home...but it isn't.

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RM_guy

. . . people listen to the national news and hear the gloom and doom they think the same thing is happening at home...but it isn't.

EXACTLY!

Holy bejeebers, we're dealing with that around here. Yes, the market has slowed, but I talk to a couple realtor friends of mine and they say they may not be as busy as they used to be, but they are still plenty busy. None of them have traded their Mercedes or Porsche for a Chrysler K-car yet.

So I'd have to say, Kiwijohn, that there may be these mortgage situations, and probably most of them in California or on the east coast, but nationwide I think we're okay. Of course, the rest of the world reacts to what they see on the news and that reverberates to affect us in the pocketbook when it comes to the strength of the dollar around the world.

People tend to believe what the talking heads tell them

Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:

People tend to believe what the talking heads tell them

Of course, it is an election year and the talking heads will be taking every opportunity to broadcast gloom and doom up until November. My beef has always been that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as consumer spending is such a large percentage of the total economy. Who is going to fork over their nest egg for a new house or a new car when all you hear is bad news every night at dinner time?

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

Right.... didn't know it was mainly an east coast issue... but here in NZ I believe there are a lot of people who think the Hollywood lifestyle is something to aspire to, so they borrow too much for a house they can't afford, lease a nice looking car, and hire purchase a boat... but it all has to be paid back!

All these folks need is a little nudge over the edge and kaboom - the walls come crumbling down.

We have a real strong property ownership "vibe" over here so there are people I know that have bought house after house etc until they had enough monthly income to "almost" pay them a salary each month, but if one of those properties lost a tenant or had a bad payer, the whole deck of cards starts falling down... very sad.

I guess that's why I still ride a 2 stroke?! ha ha - keep those costs manageable and reasonable.

Posted by: BSWIFT---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerMan

Who is going to fork over their nest egg for a new house or a new car when all you hear is bad news every night at dinner time?

That sums it up pretty damn good. Everyone around my area is saying the same thing. If the news media would shut the &%$# up, the rest of the country would continue to prosper.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Everyone around my area is saying the same thing.

Seriously Brian? When was the last time it wasn't Doomsday in Oklahoma as far as the economy?

Posted by: Patman---------------------

Tonight on the Nightly New "People who put away some money AND pay their bills!" Yeah that's going to get a lot of attention.

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

Tonight on the Nightly New "People who put away some money AND pay their bills!" Yeah that's going to get a lot of attention.

You're talking crazy stuff..... hee hee

But don't worry, if you get too stressed you can always sue your local "insert company" for compensation - surely "they" must be to blame ??!!

Seriously though - is the prime mortgage issue a big city thing or a cheap suburb thing? i.e where is it impacting the most?

Posted by: Shaw520---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwijohn

Seriously though - is the prime mortgage issue a big city thing or a cheap suburb thing? i.e where is it impacting the most?

starting to smell funny ,..... like '2 strokes' said in the 1st post.

Posted by: BSWIFT---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Seriously Brian? When was the last time it wasn't Doomsday in Oklahoma as far as the economy?

That's just the line at the state capital.

Posted by: ohmthis---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patman

Tonight on the Nightly New "People who put away some money AND pay their bills!" Yeah that's going to get a lot of attention.

Tha's a Great Idea!!! My family thinks I make a lot of money because of some of the things I have.

I tell them save for awhile and pay for it. No reason to go and finace it!

I'm getting married and we have two houses. We put them both on the market because we don't know if even one will sell. Oh well!!! Take care guys!

Posted by: Patman---------------------

Where is it the worst? Where ever a person is trying to sell a house that they got upside down on. Florida & Cali seem to be the most common areas mentioned but depending on who you talk to and their feelings on the matter it could be different. I'm in land development in Texas and I've seen a little blip but not much more. People are still building houses and large towers with condos that start at $300K and go to $2.8M without much end in sight. Sure the money is a little tougher to aquire but then if the project or person is a risk they shouldn't get the loan anyway.

Like Oldguy when we sold our last home and were building our current one the load came back with a line of $600K, to me that was insane! I also know that there were and are people that would ask for even more which is even more insane. Since we owned the land already we spent less than 1/2 that but it still seems like a big payment. I do not look at my home as the only investment I will have and plan to make a big return on it like many that thought they could make a quick buck. The flip that house type TV shows don't help because every idiot thinks they can do it too and end up in deep trouble. Greed seems to be a coomon problem had by those complainers of the current situation even if they don't realize or admit it.

I think many people are finding out what a lot of us dirt bikers know from experience. STUPID HURTS.

Posted by: _JOE_---------------------

I think it has alot to do with people buying investment properties. These tend to be financed with variable rate or interest only loans. People expected to sell in a short time, but if there's no buyer there's no sale. It gets worse as the problem spreads. The harder it is for someone to borrow and pay back the harder it is to sell a property. It seems to be more of a high population urban area issue. Things in my little town have slowed down, but values haven't fallen yet. They just leveled out for now. Oh well. What can you do. Ride it out.

Posted by: wake_rider---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwijohn

PS What do you guys pay in interest on your mortgage / Credit card? I think my CC interest is about 19% - mortgage going to be 10%

The fixed rate on my mortgage is 5.65% and both cc's are in the 9% range. My wife and I saved every penny we could for about 2 1/2 years and put a heavy downpayment on our house and we both have very good credit scores so I think that helped us out greatly. I think a big reason for the housing crunch is that a good amount of Americans are very impulse and need their wants to be pleased immediately. Whatever it takes to get that immediate pleasure, they do without really taking the time to plan ahead and to have actions planned ahead of time when you run into problems. The issue is that so many wanted to be a homeowner that they didn't take into account the possibility of an economy repression and that their mortgage payments were only going to rise because they signed VARIABLE rate loans

...

Posted by: wake_rider---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Seriously Brian? When was the last time it wasn't Doomsday in Oklahoma as far as the economy?

Oklahoma economy has been on a very steady incline for a while now. You are just seeing the income start to file out of the more rural areas and into the larger cities where your larger companies are setting camp. That's common countrywide though.

Posted by: holeshot---------------------

Depends how you look at it.

New homes in North Corona were going for up to $750,000.00 a year ago. These same homes are going for around $500,000.00 now (they're almost giving them away at that price

).
But these homes are between 5000 and 6000 sq. feet with 3 or 4 car garages - they're damn mansions.

If you were to scoop up one of these in the next year or so, people will be saying that you got it for nothing (maybe 7 years down the road).

Things are not much different than 1991 when I bought a house at the price peak and then it lost 30% of it's value in the next few years. Not a wise investment, but it still turned out ok.

Buy low, sell high.

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

starting to smell funny ,..... like '2 strokes' said in the 1st post.

What? No need to be paranoid fella.... what could smell funny about that question? You 2 guys seem to be looking for trouble - not cool.

The reason I ask is that we have a mortgage and housing issues over here that affect all walks of life - rich and poor... and I have no idea who it's affecting in the US.

The OTHER housing problem we have in the last few years is what has been dubbed "Leaky Building Syndrome" this comes from the housing boom of a few years ago where every man and his dog was buying land, sub-dividing it and building multiple apartments and town houses in a huge rush.... turns out the builders were so focused on turning these things over that the work was getting shoddy and architects were using very modular designs that often ended up leaking... so we have multi-apartment buildings that have been virtually condemned,and since there is no insurance cover for crappy workmanship, these people are left with a rotten house, a big mortgage and nowhere to live..... now that's real bad news!

Result of all that is an industry where the builders are now going out of business, insurance companies are running scared, deleting covers and increasing premiums, while Joe Brown lives in a mouldy, cold house.... phew.....

What ever happened to pride in your work?

Posted by: ohmthis---------------------

I would agree that it seems everyone wants everything now. My Grampa always told me "You can have everything that you want, but you cant have it all at once." I'm not helping the economy much because I work in the automotive buisness...We all know how that's going. We have laid off 30-35 people here the last 6 months. Doesn't seem like alot, but when there are only 80 employees....Well you do the math. Makes your A**hole pucker just a little! Hope eveyone takes care.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Greed.

Many people saw their homes as an extension of their atm cards. Even better, free money. They pulled as much money out of their equity as the loan companys would let them. Yes, in some cases 100 percent. They bought swimming pools, motorhomes, toys, etc, etc. Just like it would go on forever. Greed.

The loan companys let these people borrow more money than they should have. In many cases the appraisers were forced by the loan companys to appraise houses for more than they were actually worth. Loan officers gave loans to people that they knew wouldn't be able to pay back the loans. Many of them falsified loan documents to show people made more money than they actually did. And of course, these people knowing they would get more money happily signed on the dotted line. Greed.

Builders built houses even when the market started to turn down knowing these houses would not be sold. They really didn't care how long they sat on the market or how it would depress an area because they made their money and have now moved on. Greed.

Quality of workmanship went down because many of the workers building the homes were replaced by illegal aliens. The builders saw that the aliens would work for pennies. So they fired the quality minded workers and hired illegals. Now the workmanship is shoddy and many of the new homes are being broken into and stripped of their copper wiring and appliances shortly after being completed. Greed.

Now that the housing market is in the dumper, they are building commercial and office buildings like they are going out of style. We have many new office buildings in the area and none of them have any signed contracts. No renters. All sitting empty but they are still building more. There again, the builders don't care. They have made their money and now it's the developers problem to lease the space. Greed.

Now everyone is screaming like wounded banshies. How could this have happened?

Anybody that didn't see this coming from way down the road must have had their heads buried in the sand. All the warning signs were there for a long time. But they figured they would squeak just a little more money out before everything came crashing down. Greed.

You better have your ducks in a row because this time it's going to be different. IMO, this is going to last for a very long time and will probably be world wide. Regardless of what the federal reserve tells us.

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

I hear now that there is a proposal to cut people $20,000.00 to help alleviate some of the strain of their mortgages.

Where's my $20,000.00 for being (relatively) responsible?

Posted by: biglou---------------------

You (and I, for that matter) will get a negative $20k for being relatively responsible. Ain't it neat how that works?

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

awesome.

Posted by: RM_guy---------------------

Hmmm...I close on my new house in a few weeks. I think I'll skip paying the mortgage until I get my $20K and then start paying again. I can do this each time a new bail out comes along. Yeah, I like it.

Lou, You better up your withholding in your paycheck, you too Pred. Thanks.

Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by biglou

You (and I, for that matter) will get a negative $20k for being relatively responsible. Ain't it neat how that works?

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

I hear now that there is a proposal to cut people $20,000.00 to help alleviate some of the strain of their mortgages.

Really... ?!!

- where does that money come from? and what does that teach someone who has been too greedy as ol 89 said earlier?

This reminds me of the situation with punishing criminals - (sorry to drift off subject) - I saw an example of a 16 yr old kid who had over 20 convictions for stealing cars robbery, assault, graffiti etc etc... and he made it the newspaer because he was FINALLY going to prison for 2 months for his wrong doing?!! What?

That kid has no respect for others, no respect for property but on the other hand he knows he will get away with almost anything because the "system" doesn't teach people that they are responsible for their own actions!!

If someone gave you $20K toward your "difficult" mortgage payments, it's a gift that you haven't worked for, and don't really deserve. Mind you I do feel sorry for people who might lose their house but still....

Who came up with that idea?

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

http://www.consumerbuild.org.nz/pub...casestudy-1.php

http://www.consumerbuild.org.nz/pub...casestudy-2.php

If anyone's interested these make for upsetting reading!

This isn't porn so no-one get too excited

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

Builders built houses even when the market started to turn down knowing these houses would not be sold. They really didn't care how long they sat on the market or how it would depress an area because they made their money and have now moved on. Greed.

Quality of workmanship went down because many of the workers building the homes were replaced by illegal aliens. The builders saw that the aliens would work for pennies. So they fired the quality minded workers and hired illegals. Now the workmanship is shoddy and many of the new homes are being broken into and stripped of their copper wiring and appliances shortly after being completed. Greed.

I happen to be a contractor (home remodeling stuff).
Lets be careful not to throw a negative blanket over all builders and skilled laborers.
This situation is a huge opportunity for those who are not just out for the almighty dollar. Many of us specialized sub-contractors have learned to keep a sharp eye out for the builder who is all about "hurry up and close" with total disregard for quality... THAT's the builder you stay away from (why assosiate with THAT? word gets around). Truly moral thinking and honest people in this business will be highly sought out now. That's a POSITIVE because people will still need us.
Time for bed, the alarm goes off at 5:00am, I told the homeowner I'd be there bright and early... and I will be.

Posted by: Filthy_McNasty---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by biglou

You (and I, for that matter) will get a negative $20k for being relatively responsible. Ain't it neat how that works?

Unfortunately, that's about the truth. A couple of years ago, I bought a house, $260K. Financed $185K, on a 15 year mortgage. Well within my financial means. Well, now that interest rates are a couple of points lower than what I have, I would like to refinance to take advantage of them. But, thanks to the crashing home values in my area, due in large part to irresponsible borrowers buying more house than they could afford and now walking away from them, I can't get an appraisal that shows my house to be valued at what I owe. No appraisal, no refi. So I get screwed by all those irresponsible borrowers...

Posted by: ohmthis---------------------

What is this $20K BS? People are getting a $20k break on there mortgage because they were too greedy and took more than they should and now there in debt up their eyeballs?

issed: When do the people who pay their bills and taxes get any help? OH wait a minute....that's right we get the great tax rebate.

That's fair!!! Give me and everyone else that takes care of this country $20k. I'm sure it will go to a good cause.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2-Strokes 4-ever

I happen to be a contractor (home remodeling stuff).
Lets be careful not to throw a negative blanket over all builders and skilled laborers.
Many of us specialized sub-contractors have learned to keep a sharp eye out for the builder who is all about "hurry up and close" with total disregard for quality... THAT's the builder you stay away from.

2-Strokes. Certainly didn't mean all builders and I said many of the workers, not all.

They built a tract of new homes next to our neighborhood a couple of years ago. Just finished them when the downturn started. They sold from $1 mil to $1.8 mil. The people that bought the homes are having many problems with them. Leaks, cracks in the foundations, windows not fitting properly and so on. They found out that they built some of them on top of an earthquake fault and now the lenders are backing out. They knew the fault was there because they uncovered it while doing the dirt work but built on it anyway. Some are still unsold. The original builder sold out and changed names a long time ago. The second builder also sold out and changed names and now there is no recourse for the homeowners. The current builder has no money to finish things like their entry gates, entrance intersection to the development and promised amenities. The county is finishing the intersection and the tax payers will pay for it. This is wrong and somebody needs to be held accountable. There is no responsibility in this country any more.

Giving irresponsible people $ 20,000 for doing the wrong thing only teaches people not to be responsible. Those of us that save our money for the things we want and did things the right way should not have to pay for those that didn't. The governments answer to everything is to throw money at the problem. Unfortunately, it's our money they are throwing. The more they print for these bail-outs, the less our money is worth. This only adds to an already bad situation.

Hang on kiddies. This one's gonna' be bad.

Posted by: truespode---------------------

I fall in line with the irresponsible... sorta...

Up until 2004 I had 60k+ equity in my house. But then came layoffs for myself and my wife. She didn't go back to work and we re-financed after I got me another job.

I knew it was wrong. I knew I shouldn't do it but... well, I was stupid and there was a lot going on behind the scenes.

Then through some other issues (father getting sick, dying, me taking care of his estate, another job change so I could take care of him and his estate then divorce, etc.) I found myself in a position where now I have an ARM that has jumped twice and with horrible credit and a house that has now become devalued b/c of the market.

Who do I blame?

ME

I made the mistake on the re-finance. Sure, I had it planned out that if things worked out this would happen or that would happen or anything would happen other than what did happen. I planned on the best and got the worst instead of hoping for the best and planning for the worst.

Now I am paying my mortgage and going without on some things.

I am by no means broke. I still can afford to ride and race. My bike is paid for. But I do live paycheck to paycheck and will until I get out from under the mistakes I have made between 2004 and 2007.

I see it as paying the piper and suffering from my mistakes. I have nobody else to blame. I think the bailouts are crazy. If the market crashes, we go into a recession and I lose my job then I'll probably lose my house instead of just having a devalued house. But that would be my fault and I would do what I can to get my life back in order again.

Getting knocked down is not the worst thing in the world. We still live in a prosperous country where there is a lot of opportunity and I don't expect my slate to be clean of my mistakes and I expect to pay for my mistakes for a long time... both financially and personally.

I am happy to live in a country where our poor are not starving and our opportunity to get out of poverty is strong if we work for it. I grew up poor... I remember my mom trying to get food stamps but had earned too much by a few thousand and the office said for her to not work as much overtime. She said to hell with that... if working less gets her a handout she is going to work harder and not need the handout.

She now has 17 acres, horses and a everything she always wanted... and she still works hard.

Ivan

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

^^ HONESTY!!!^^...cool.

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

There is no responsibility in this country any more.

Hang on kiddies. This one's gonna' be bad.

What you've seen going on in your neighborhood IS a bad thing. Just like you said... Greed. But people will still need homes built (someday I hope) and news like this will be a huge opportunity for the GOOD guys.
Your "no responsibility" opinion is not logical to me though, because it's not true. The media uses the same negative scare tactics. You KNOW it's "gunna' be bad"? Maybe... maybe tougher..... depends on one's opinion of bad.
When we look at our childs report card with passing grades (maybe some A's too) and see one F...... we focus on the F don't we? Been there, done that. However, focusing on the best grade with an "atta boy", a pat on the back, a smile, WILL make them strive for more praise. People and especially kids instinctively want approval, acceptance, and to bring pleasure to others. But, they can tell immediately if we say the supportive words, but don't mean it.
I know I'm coming on kinda strong here, but I've been through some really bad, devestating, life-changing stuff.
I ain't sceered. Maybe I'll lose everything, the economy's tough........ but my older son's off meth, my wife came back home...and I luv 'em.
No, I'm not normally a "feelings and emotions" guy......yuck

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

Getting knocked down is not the worst thing in the world. We still live in a prosperous country where there is a lot of opportunity and I don't expect my slate to be clean of my mistakes and I expect to pay for my mistakes for a long time... both financially and personally.

Good comment mate - I have no problem with anyone who takes one on the chin and grits their teeth and tries again... I lost over $100,000 on a retail venture that was (in the end) unable to carry on because of supply ex Engalnd but it was too lat eby then and the mnoney is gone.... Would have paid for my next house extension too

But as you say there are times when you take a chance and the cards fall where they fall....

I just watched a Boston Legal episode the other week about them taking a bank to court... not sure if you;d actually win but if it was on TV it MUST be true ha ha

Question for you Truespode... how did the bank sell the mortgage to you?

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwijohn

Question for you Truespode... how did the bank sell the mortgage to you?

They presented a low interest rate and said that in 2 years I could refinance to a fixed rate.

I knew I shouldn't have done it... I should have sold, took the equity and rented for a year until my ex and I got things together financially but I love my garage and had room for my dogs and my ex really, really wanted to pursue becoming an athletic trainer.

I knew it was wrong... but I did it anyway. The rest of that 3 year period is a bit of a blur but I have nobody to blame but myself. I could have stopped at any time and done things better but I refused to allow myself to think straight and just kept getting in deeper as the next obstacle came up.

That's life though... success is falling down 9 times and getting up 10!

I'm on my 6th fall right now so I have a way to go

Ivan

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2-Strokes 4-ever

.
Your "no responsibility" opinion is not logical to me though, because it's not true. The media uses the same negative scare tactics. You KNOW it's "gunna' be bad"? Maybe... maybe tougher..... depends on one's opinion of bad.

That was not a blanket statement. Of course there are responsible people. Ivan is a good example. He got caught in the subprime trap, for whatever reason, but realizes who was to blame. He is not asking for a bail-out. He is willing to work his way out of it and do the responsible thing. Good for you Ivan.

I'm talking about the people that knew what they were doing and took full advantage of the situation. Now, they are asking the government, (us) to bail them out. They still have their toys and now want us to pay for them.

The reason I feel it will be bad this time is because I have been through many recessions in my lifetime. We have always had the means to get ourselves out of the recessions and depressions of the past, but this time it is different. We have just gone through the longest period of growth in our entire history. Much of this growth, especially in the last decade, was funny money. Like the dot.com boom/bust. During the dot.com boom companys were making loads of money on the pretense of having a good product to sell. Many of these companys didn't really have a product, only a promise of a product. The stock market went nuts shoveling more and more money into these companys hoping to get a piece of the next Google. Soon the market went bust because most of these companys were only smoke and mirrors. They really didn't have anything to sell.

The housing market was similar. House prices were inflated beyond their actual worth. The whole market, lenders, MOST

builders and real estate agents took full advantage and sucked the market dry. Now like the dot.coms the market is simply re-adjusting to the correct levels.

Only this time we as a country have nothing to sell. Most of our manufacturing is done in other countrys. We send most of our money to China. We can't afford to build things like automobiles and related products in the United States and still compete with places like China and Japan. We outsource most everything to other countrys. As a result, these other countrys own us. China has bought up much of our debt. They bought much of the sub-prime debt and now are buying credit card debt from companys like Visa. China has the capability of dropping a financial nuclear bomb on us. They could destroy our economy overnight if they wanted to. And believe me, they want to.

Our own government has been lying to us for years. They have changed all of the indicators that tell us what the economy is doing. These indicators no longer work. A good example is the unemployment rate. When a person can't find a job after a certain period of time, they drop off of the list. They are no longer considered unemployed. The government says the unemployment rate is going down when in fact it has actually gone up. The government keeps telling us there is no inflation. Of course anyone that has bought gas or food in the past week knows different.

The Federal Reserve thinks the answer to all of our problems is to throw more money at it. Helicopter Ben has already thrown billions from the helicopter and will throw more in the future. When they do this, it makes our dollar worth less. The more they print the less our money is worth. We used to make fun of the Canadians because of the exchange rate. But now, their dollar is worth more than our dollar. By printing more and more money it only prolongs the agony.

We really need to go through a recession or maybe even a depression. Prices need to re-adjust back to reasonable levels. By throwing more money at the problem it only caused prices to go higher.

We depend on other countrys for our oil. Even though we have plenty of oil within the United States, the enviro nazis won't let us drill for it. Many of those other countrys that we depend on hate us and will use the oil against us. In case you haven't been paying attention this is already happening. We used to be a food producer for the entire world. Now farmers are paid subsidies not to grow certain crops. The price of corn and feed and anything related with corn (most everything) is going up rapidly. All in the name of another scam known as ethanol. Don't' even get me started on global warming.

These are just a few of the reasons I believe we are in for a rough ride. It part of the natural cycles we have gone through many times in the past but this time we have nothing to back us up. You can take a pig and dress it up and call it what you want but, It's still a pig.

If you have saved your money and did your homework, now is the time to cash in on the good deals. And yes, there are many opportunitys for the GOOD Guys.

Posted by: motometal---------------------

such as?

Posted by: motometal---------------------

couple guys asking about credit card rates...the rates should be a non issue if you have stable employment (and i'm not assuming you do, just making a point). If you can't pay for a purchase by the end of the billing cycle on the card, in my opinion you should question why you are making that purchase and if you really need it.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by motometal

such as?

Such as, cars, motorhomes, motorcycles, tools, equipment, houses, loans, etc, etc.

The price of automobiles is coming down (especially used vehicles) and many dealers are offering huge incentives to buy.

People are trying to get rid of their motorhomes and toybox trailers at a loss. Just take over payments, please!

Motorcycles such as Harley Davidsons that were selling for $25-$30,000 just two years ago are now sitting in the paper for weeks at a time at $12-$13,000.

Want a second home or rental? Housing prices are down and falling fast. So are interest rates. If you saved your pennies and payed your bills you could qualify for one of these low interest loans and buy one of those houses and turn it into a rental. In many cases you can zero out on the payment and when the market turns around you will make a killing in equity. If you are good with a hammer there are many foreclosures and fixer-uppers for sale at greatly reduced prices. And going down.

Property. Want to own a piece of property. Many good deals on property that people bought to speculate or build on and now can't afford to keep it.

Hand tools, machine tools and measuring devices. Look in the recycler. Amazing deals on tools, generators, compressors, anything you want.

Go into a pawn shop some day. Power tools, musical instruments, measuring devices, firearms, jewelry, most at half price or less. Some almost brand new in the original cases.

Of course this is just in my area, So Cal. It may be different in your area.

The definition of a recession. Your neighbor lost his job.

The definition of a depression. You lost your job.

Posted by: bsmith---------------------

Quote:

Hand tools, machine tools and measuring devices. Look in the recycler. Amazing deals on tools, generators, compressors, anything you want.

Shoot, I might have to start shopping your area on Craigslist for goodies!

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

This is wrong and somebody needs to be held accountable. There is no responsibility in this country any more.

True - and not just the US there ol 89er.

I get to see a few examples of bad behaviour and the one that ticked me off (recently) was a window cleaner who was hired to clean off the windows in a new retail/ apartment block, once construction was completed.

He cleaned the windows (kind of) but didn't water them down properly and used the wrong chemicals and caused NZ $100,000 in damage - all windows had scratches across the surface.

He has no Liability insurance so told the main contractor "Go ahead and sue me - I haven't got a house, money or anything of value so you'll get nothing anyway"....

Sigh...... my dad taught me that if I made a mistake I had to pay for that mistake.... what's happened to people?

Posted by: Patman---------------------

It all started with "everybody wins" sports and now those same lame kids that didn't feel bad because they were LOSERS! Are just repeating what they learned as adults.

Posted by: BSWIFT---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patman

It all started with "everybody wins" sports and now those same lame kids that didn't feel bad because they were LOSERS! Are just repeating what they learned as adults.

"Snow cones for everyone!", with the utmost sarcasm,

Posted by: motometal---------------------

Thanks, '89...great post.

We are very fortunate to be able to say that things are a bit different here in the midwest...wouldn't say we are in an economic boom but it seems like it in some respects. If you are an employer you are probably struggling to find good solid employees. Wish we could "import" them from the areas doing poorly, would be a win-win but too many folks tied down to their house/mortgage.

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by motometal

If you are an employer you are probably struggling to find good solid employees.

"I'll come in to work if you'll pay my bail......... I didn't mean to steal and wreck your truck........ looks like today's a rain-out (I didn't see a cloud in the sky)........ ouch!, my back (tried to get permanent disability)........ my girlfriend beat me up." (good!)........ and many more.

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

Let's not forget Generation Y complaints!! "I've been here 6 months and I deserve a raise" "THAT'S not my job, SHE should be doing that...." "I'm not staying late - forget that!"

etc etc.......

Posted by: atkkid250---------------------

its because people are stupid, and buy stuff they cant afford, even though the banks let htem buy it. the people pay with plastic, and barely make the minimum payments, they eventually fall behind in their payments, and bam their in debt. suddenly that humungo house and all teh goddies werent such good ideas were they. lol.
and if we think its bad now, wait till all these baby boomers are old, decrepit and collecting social security and us young'uns will be paying for it. trying to pay off the countries huge deficit. and all the while the gov. will be trying to stimulate the economy by giving people "free" money which was payed for by tax dollars anyway. and just to top it off. the gov. is giving away money it itself doesn't have, so it is just a big hypocrite. which i can't stand! just my two cents, or 3 cents canandian haha

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

Wow Mr ATK! You sound like one that may see a need to put priorities towards "needs" and not "wants." Infect your buds with some of that stuff.
I love logic.

Posted by: atkkid250---------------------

thank you. i try but they dont listen. o well. and the parents that spoil the crap out of their kids are not helping. setting them up with a life with no work ethic.

Posted by: Filthy_McNasty---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by atkkid250

a life with no work ethic.

Now wait a minute, where is it written that I have to use ethics in my work???

Posted by: atkkid250---------------------

ahh, thats completely different. you could be a professional hitman, a work with no ethics, yet have work ethic, you oculd value the work that went into the payoff. completely different

Posted by: kiwijohn---------------------

I heard that Citigroup bank has just anounced they've lost 5 Billion dollars due (mainly) tothe mortgage disaster and Global Credit hassles - They'll also be laying off around 9,000 staff. Man where does it end?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/...tigroup.banking

Merrill Lynch also lost $1 Billion..... sheesh........

And to make things WORSE, I lost my pilot jet down the back of my workbench!!!! Man

Now I'll have to take out all my shelving and cupboards.....

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