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Never raced! I promise!
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Posted by: inotocracy---------------------

Ever come across those sales on craigslist where the bike has numbers, and motocross parts and the owner claims its never been raced? Lately I've been emailing the sellers for fun asking why they have numbers and sponsor stickers if they have never been in a race. Rarely do I receive a reply, and if they do reply its usually with a smart ass comment or them telling me to screw off.

Still a tad new to this sport, but if a bike has been raced does that lower its value since its been ridden hard? Is that why they lie about an obviously raced bike?

Posted by: BSWIFT---------------------

Depends on the rider and the maintenance. My bike has been raced by me, 4-5 times. I'm a spode so I would consider it raced hard. I run numbers but just so I don't have blank white plates. The extra stuff is just the way I like the bike setup. It really comes down to maintenance. Clean oil, clean air filter, overall well cared for. It's a dirtbike, it has scratches and dings. If it doesn't, probably hasn't been riden much.

Posted by: mkelly04---------------------

I think having an ex racers bike is a good thing.

The vast majority of guys that I know that race are very anal about bike maintenance.

Most of the weekend warriors that I know really dont know how to properly maintain their bikes.

Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------

Not anal on maintenance. By the time a racer gets pretty good, he knows what it takes to finish a race, proper maintenance. Guys that own mx bikes and do not race, are good for running it till it breaks. Good luck with that!

Posted by: jackflack44---------------------

lol i know what ya mean

Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------

If the guy is sketchy about if is raced or not, what else is sketchy on? Chances are good, if he does race, he finishes pretty far back, in c class.

Posted by: inotocracy---------------------

That makes a lot of sense! If thats the case then why do people lie about it being raced or not?

Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------

Hiding inadequate maintenance! Its right in the manual.

Posted by: _JOE_---------------------

Most people associate racing with beating the sh*t out of a bike. When you're talking about a bike designed for racing, it's not a bad thing. Like everybody else is saying, racers tend to maintain thier bikes well. The more serious they are about it the more serious they are about maintenance, usually. A guy who is trying to win a series isn't gonna throw it away to lack of maintenance. These bikes usually see maybe 1 or 2 practice days a week and a race day. If they only race 1 class that's not many hours accumulated in a week. Some guy riding around the fields by his house will probly wear parts out faster than the racer. The casual rider tends to be more lax on maintenance and usually doesn't keep track of the hours on the bike as well. Additionally, fast racers usually get some kind of help from a local dealer or shop, so they get parts cheaper which makes it easier to keep the bike fresh.

Posted by: Chili---------------------

I always laugh when the first question anyone asks me about a bike we are selling is "has it been raced?" Tell them yes and they are no longer interested, they'd rather buy a farm bike that the kid hasn't raced OR changed the oil and filters in since he got it versus one that has been maintained to the utmost degree.

Posted by: mideastrider---------------------

I'm with Chili he's spot on. I prefer a used race bike over a "farm bike" any day.

Posted by: holeshot---------------------

99 % of dirt bikes have been raced. If you go on a "casual" trail ride with a group of riders, it always turns into a race at some point - it's just human nature. If the riders are fast, then you get a fast little race going on (with subsequent bike thrashing).

If you line up at an "official" race, and the gate drops on the +50 beginner class, chances are that you'll need a Sundial to keep lap times and the bikes won't be thrashed that much.

I'd stay away from a national caliber rider's race bike, but any other bike is just gut feel.

People don't buy dirt bikes to go hunting mushrooms with - they buy 'em because they want to go fast (on or off the track). Is practicing racing?

Never raced......ha.

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

I sure would like to meet these "racers" that take such good care of their bikes. I guess I've been travelling in the wrong circles all these years.

Posted by: oldguy---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Rohrich

I sure would like to meet these "racers" that take such good care of their bikes. I guess I've been travelling in the wrong circles all these years.

I agree to a point
I know that of the top 5 A riders in our area I wouldn't touch a used bike from them because they are trashed.
The next tier of riders (Spider fits in here but of course I try to do all the maintanence) seem to have better bikes later in the season because they don't get as much support and therefore take a bit better care of them.
The final tier is a crapshoot on what they do to keep the bikes up.

That said whenever I wanted to sell a bike as a whole item I usually had it sold first day at the track to another racer because they knew I did the simple stuff and either Rich or Eric Gorr did the stuff I am afraid to touch.

I honestly would never send Spider onto a track if I had any question a part was questionable- The racer is a different point I know he is not all there

Posted by: rmc_olderthandirt---------------------

"Raced" is such a broad term.

What exactly does that mean?

A serious racer could be practicing at the track twice a week and then riding motos on the weekends. The bike could get 20 minutes of ride time on race day and several hours during practice. If you just rode the practice, and skipped the actual races, would the bike fare any better?

I can be out on a play ride and cover the same terrain at the same speed as I would if I were riding an enduro. During an enduro, if I am actually time keeping (and not late and trying to catch up) there will be stretches where I am just putting along or even coming to stop to kill time.

Riding at the track is a new thing for me and so far I am sure that the bike has suffered less abuse at the track than one one of my typical trail rides. My body has been suffering more at the track, but the bike hasn't. The dirt is softer and the bike doesn't cartwheel nearly as many times as when I loop it climbing a steep hill.

Most of the competitive events I have been in avoided the long, smooth high speed roads in favor of technically challenging stuff. When I get on a trail ride, however, we might hit a power line road where I am tempted to hold the throttle wide open for an extended period, or until better sense prevails.

On the flip side, I know people who "race" and don't maintain their bikes. They run it until it breaks and then buy another one.

Raced or not the real question is how well it has been maintained and if worn/damaged parts have been replaced as needed.

I am also very suspicious about the claims of "oil changed after every ride".

Rod

Posted by: Chili---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmc_olderthandirt

I am also very suspicious about the claims of "oil changed after every ride".

Rod

Our 2 strokes were changed after every ride, the 4 stroke is between 2-3 hours on the hour meter.

Posted by: _JOE_---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Our 2 strokes were changed after every ride, the 4 stroke is between 2-3 hours on the hour meter.

Does it actually need changed when you do it? I trust a good oil for 4 or 5 hours. I ran Pro honda hp4 in mine from new until I did the top end, now I am running Rotella T. I changed the hp4 every 4-5 hours and it looked clear. The internals(-the piston skirts) looked new. The Rotella came out clear after 3 hours, so I'm gonna start going 4 and call it a schedule.

I guess we'll see how it looks when I go to re-ring.

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldguy

That said whenever I wanted to sell a bike as a whole item I usually had it sold first day at the track to another racer

Dave - You and Chili are the notable exceptions to my rather cynical view.

It's always enjoyable helping you guys because I know how serious you guys take your maintenance.

The funny thing is I know you end up spending less than the guys who ignore the maintenance till it breaks, and I know you get more for your bikes used, and deservedly so.

I think you guys are the exception rather than the rule.

I think the trick is to buy a used bike from a guy like me, who spends more time working on the bike than riding it.

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by _JOE_

Does it actually need changed when you do it? I trust a good oil for 4 or 5 hours.

Unless you are testing oil all the time, and comparing them to virgin samples there is no way to know for sure. Erring on the conservative side with oil is incredibly cheap insurance.

Posted by: Chili---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by _JOE_

Does it actually need changed when you do it? I trust a good oil for 4 or 5 hours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Rohrich

Unless you are testing oil all the time, and comparing them to virgin samples there is no way to know for sure. Erring on the conservative side with oil is incredibly cheap insurance.

That's pretty much sums it up for me Joe, the oil still looks good when it comes out but I have no idea if that equates to everything is good and it just didn't discolor. The cost factor of changing it at 2.5 hours versus 4 hours is so insignificant and it makes me feel better. At 2.5 hour intervals my son's bike which just rolled 64 hours this weekend would have seen 25 oil changes at 2.5 hours per, or 16 at 4 hours per. So let's round off to 10 extra oil changes in a season and a half that's about $35 total for the peace of mind.

Another thought is your Honda has separate oil where we are using the same oil for the entire engine/gearbox, which makes me a bit more nervous about contamination from clutch debris.

Posted by: oldguy---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Another thought is your Honda has separate oil where we are using the same oil for the entire engine/gearbox, which makes me a bit more nervous about contamination from clutch debris.

Running Yamaha 4 strokes

We actually do it every time we pack up from the track- sometimes 45 minutes (depending which bike he pounded) all the way up to 3 hours

I am no way wealthy and figure I would rather opt for cheap insurance then a new engine

Posted by: sparkysakitas---------------------

ok what about a bike raced for a shop???
my rmz falls into that category it was raced by a mid b low a rider for season and a half+ maintained by suzuki shop

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Anyone who buys a used RMZ250 that was raced needs to have their head examined.

Posted by: inotocracy---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Rohrich

Anyone who buys a used RMZ250 that was raced needs to have their head examined.

Elaborate good sir.

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by inotocracy

Elaborate good sir.

Do a quick search here or on any forum on earth. It's been regularly documented that the RMZ250 has proven to be the most unreliable design to come out of Japan in an incredibly long time. The stresses that come from racing only exacerbate this problem.

Even good maintenance can't overcome a poor design or manufacturing.

Posted by: _JOE_---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

I guess when you look at it that way it's really not worth the risk. I never even think of the guys running engines that share trans oil. That would make me extremely nervous too. Now that I have some other opinions from some of you guys who obviously know what you're doing I may stay with the 3 hour schedule on the Rotella. At 9 bucks a gallon it's not really a considerable expense. Just out of curiosity, how often are you changing oil filters?

Posted by: rpm12505---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Rohrich

Is that all RMZ250's or just the ones that were half kawi?

Ok Ok I'll search it......geeez

Posted by: Chili---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by _JOE_

Just out of curiosity, how often are you changing oil filters?

I usually change out the filter every third oil change, so somewhere between 6-9 hours depending on where the oil changes fell on the clock.

Posted by: Chili---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpm12505

Is that all RMZ250's or just the ones that were half kawi?

Ok Ok I'll search it......geeez

I know Rich really doesn't like the RMZ's and I have spent considerable time keeping track of issues with them because of conversations here.

From 04-06 I would never consider anyone buying one. We have an 07 and it had significant clutch issues that can be resolved with a few parts that Suzuki added to the 08 clutch. For 08 the issues appears to be resolved. Based on watching internet chatter I would suggest the 07 and 08 RMZ250 has as few or less issues than any other brand 250F out there.

Posted by: SpeedyManiac---------------------

I would never shy away from a race bike, but chances are it has more hours on it unless the rider has a practice bike and a race bike (I'm speaking for woods racers, from what I've seen around here MXers don't put as many hours on their bikes). For me, I ride 3-5 days per week plus racing on usually 2 weekends per month. And each ride is usually 2-3 hours, races are around 3 hours. That said, I do maintain my bike as best as my budget allows (plastic is stitched, scratched, but still useable!). I wouldn't shy away from a race bike, but remember that serious racers usually ride a lot, and hours on the bike do count.

Posted by: inotocracy---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Rohrich

Yikes! I did not know that. Just for you, I'm going to go to every search engine known to man and run multiple RMZ250 searches. I won't read a single article, but I will search like a mad man!

Posted by: sparkysakitas---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Rohrich

Anyone who buys a used RMZ250 that was raced needs to have their head examined.

i dont think that was meant for me rich but since we are on the topic? my head was examined right after i hit the tree in dec

and its a 450 anyways

Posted by: rpm12505---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Thanks Chili
I had hoped they hadn't gotten that bad. Not that we're in the market for a new bike, too many other priorities ( work, girlfriend and saving for college). Haven't even raced yet this year

How are you guys doing?

Posted by: Chili---------------------

All is well here thanks, My son is getting back up to speed slowly after all his injuries and he is racing every weekend. Sadly I spend far more time behind a desk or camera nowadays than on a bike.

Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------

I have been looking at some used 2 stroke 250's, for myself. As long as the tranny is in good shape, is all I care about the engine. 300 to 400 dollars and its in shape, and I know where its at. Its the rest of the bike that is important to me. Painted frames are easy to see what has happened, paint coming off welds. Straight subframe is not a big deal. Spokes, rims, hubs and linkage tell a lot also. The most neglected parts are the suspension. And it can get pretty pricey replacing fork and shock parts! Much less valving and springs. Realistically, even more than fresh tires every week, fresh suspension would be sweat. Ideal targets to buy used dirtbikes from? NONE. I still have visions of some guy pull starting his bike with a quad, back tire wore off, chain skipping on the sprocket, and smoke billowing out, of a 4 stroke. And never has been raced. A lot of people just do not push as hard in a race as out riding. The bike as a whole, is in "better" shape from a racer that respects their bike. They have to, no trophies for DNF's!

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by inotocracy

Yikes! I did not know that. Just for you, I'm going to go to every search engine known to man and run multiple RMZ250 searches. I won't read a single article, but I will search like a mad man!

Whatever makes you happy.

Posted by: rpm12505---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

All is well here thanks, My son is getting back up to speed slowly after all his injuries and he is racing every weekend. Sadly I spend far more time behind a desk or camera nowadays than on a bike.

Sorry to here about injuries and desk time, but great to here the lad racing every weekend good luck to him. And your camera time doesn't seem to be wasted. Your another one in this comic strip that has awesome talent. Be well D.

P

Posted by: flogga400---------------------

Just once I'd like to see a for sale add that said rode as hard as possible, raced every opportunity, and occasionally put away wet, but usually serviced, and new parts added as needed. Then you would know the guy was straight up.

Posted by: James---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by flogga400

Just once I'd like to see a for sale add that said rode as hard as possible, raced every opportunity, and occasionally put away wet, but usually serviced, and new parts added as needed. Then you would know the guy was straight up.

I tried one like that...something to the effect "raced, crashed often, and very well maintained"

No inquiries.

Now I list everything "low easy hours by novice rider"

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Now I list everything "low easy hours by novice rider"

And that is more accurate for you anyway

Then again, I'm the bonehead that keeps buying your used bikes

Ivan

Posted by: James---------------------

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by truespode

And that is more accurate for you anyway

Well, the only gray area in my first description is "raced" but those were organized events that I attended while putting those "low easy" hours on the bike.

Quote:

Then again, I'm the bonehead that keeps buying your used bikes

I guess it only takes one sucker....I mean buyer...to sell a used bike.

By the way, you need an enduro kinda bike??

Posted by: delraich1323---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

I always laugh when the first question anyone asks me about a bike we are selling is "has it been raced?" Tell them yes and they are no longer interested, they'd rather buy a farm bike that the kid hasn't raced OR changed the oil and filters in since he got it versus one that has been maintained to the utmost degree.

plus you get a bunch of cool aftermarket stuff...its probably cases specific find out why he needs to sell it how old it is if it had another previous owner...

Posted by: motocross3---------------------

Would it be a good idea to buy a racer's practice bike. I'm moving up to a 125 and he's selling his practice bike. Its a 2006 YZ125 for 2500. Do you think thats a good deal.

Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------

Bring it to Redbud 4th of July weekend, And I will tell you. Almost 4 year old race bike. Does it vibrate? Hows it look, ride straight, smell the oil? Hows the compression? Radiator full, not bent up? Could be a really good deal? Is the guy fast? What class?

Posted by: NoSlowBike---------------------

I can tell you from experiance that it doesn't matter either way. It all depends on the person that owned it. Doesn't have to be a race bike or a trail bike, it's all about the owner. I have had bikes that would go a good 100 hours and never have a drain plug pulled. To this day I won't change any oil with 5 hours on it. I have seen race bikes pounded beyond belief and still never have the maintainance that you guys are talking about. After working on heavy equiptment for 10 years you see some pretty amaizing stuff. I am not saying that maintainance doesn't matter but even a well maintained bike can take a crap an hour after you get it home.

Phil

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