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Should I or shouldn't I
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Posted by: gsheffer---------------------
Been riding motocross off and on for most of my life. I have never really done anything with suspension on my bikes. I have a CRF 450 and looked into getting the suspension set up for my weight, riding style, etc. It is about $800 to get it done by a shop - no way I can do the work myself.
Is it worth the 800 to get this done? Will I see a huge difference in how the bike handles? The 800 is hard for me to swallow, so I want to make sure it is going to make a difference.
Thanks
Posted by: ericz103---------------------
assuming you take it to a good place and you have the dough go for it. I didn't believe how much of a difference it made for my bike until I got mine resprung and vavled for me the first time.
Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------
How much do you weigh? How aggressive are you? How old is your 450? You may just need to have them serviced.
Posted by: gsheffer---------------------
450 only has probably 15 hours on it. I weigh 210 and I would say a little above average in aggressiveness.
Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------
http://www.mx-tech.com/, That will call for heavier springs I am pretty sure. I can not think of a better investment for around 600 dollars, plus springs, that can help you ride faster and longer. New rider, learning, may never feel it. I do not think you appreciate valving till you can get to like top 5 b class speed. How does that compare to you though? Are you jumping over 70 feet, blasting 3rd gear coming out of corners? What are your race and static lengths now? Stock CRF's are not bad, as long as the sag is correct.
Posted by: gsheffer---------------------
Not sure what 5 b class speed is, but I'd say I am close to an intermediate class speed. I can jump long table tops and doubles. It just seems like I fight the bike a lot - in the woods, on whoops, rough sections, etc. Feels like the bike is in tar when I go through whoops - just kinda rolls though them.
Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------
What is your sag set at?
Posted by: torquecurveracing---------------------
Depending on the year model of the bike it might be slightly under sprung for you. If your a true 210 with gear the 2002 through 2007 should work fine for you. However, the 2008 and 2009 are sprung for a much lighter rider. I agree totally with whenfoxforksruled, it all depends on your riding style. If your riding at the Bubba level the under sprung is not an issue. But more the average C or B level rider it will feel very harsh, and the CRF's really like to push the fronts bad. If it's harsh now ride it harder otherwise seek out a suspension tuner. The price range you quoted is about right for front and rear revalve.
Posted by: gsheffer---------------------
Do you set sag on the forks too? I know my Mountain bike forks you set sag on the forks.
Posted by: torquecurveracing---------------------
Here is the method I use which works extremely well. Not sure who first came up with this, I've seen others that use this method. Set the bike on a stand so both wheels are off the ground. Measure the rear by placing a piece of masking tape in a convenient postion on the number plate. Measure from the center of the rear axle to an identifying mark on the masking tape. Write this down as R1. Measure from the bottom of the fork stanchion (tube) to the dust cover (seal). Write this down as F1. You'll need a buddy for the next step. Remove the bike from the stand and climb on the bike with your gear on in your normal riding position. Have your buddy support the bike and lift up the rear extending rear shock then gently lower until it finds a resting place have your buddy measure from axle center to mark on tape again. Write this down as R2. Do the same procedure for the front of the bike and write down as F2. Now since your at the front, have your buddy support the bike and depress the front forks and gently release until it finds a resting place. Write this down as F3. Repeat this procedure for the rear and record as R3. Note: All dimensions except for R1 and F1 are with the rider aboard. Now for a little math. Add R2 and R3 then divide by 2. This is your average rear sag, write this down as Ra. Add F2 and F3 then divide by 2. This is your average front sag, write this down as Fa. This is important due to friction of the seals, especially since you only have 15 hrs on the bike. Now subtract Fa from F1 this is your total front sag. Subtract Ra from R1 this is your total rear sag. If the total front sag number falls between 65mm and 75mm and the total rear sag falls between 95mm and 100mm your in the ballpark. The CRF is notorious for being imbalanced, by this I mean the forks are normally too stiff and the shock is too soft. Hope this helps!
Posted by: SpDyKen---------------------
Yes, it is worth it, if you can afford it.
Depending on the time frame you have to deal with, you can save money buying the correct springs, used. It will take some time & effort, though.
I too recommend MX-Tech. You'll get the best suspension there is, and if you compare carefully, before & after, you'll see a big improvement, IMHO.
Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------
The hidden idea of the race sag setting, is to see if you have the correct rear spring. If the back is wrong, the front are wrong. That post earlier is the first I have ever heard/read of doing any measurements up front? Unbalanced? Improper oil level? Compression and rebound adjustments, thats all? Most mx bikes are set at around 4 inches. How aggressive you are and the conditions(sand) You can fine tune for yourself. Measure the overall length on a stand, with you in gear on it(have someone steady the bike and measure) and finally, measure the length under its own weight. The race sag is the difference between overall length and you on it. The static sag is the overall length minus the own weight length. In your manual it will give you the parameters for the static sag measurement, they differ. But it is that measurement that tells you if you have too much load or not enough on the preload adjustment on the shock. Adjusting the spanner nut up and down puts and takes preload off the shock. And because they were originally built as a set, what you do to the back, goes for the front. 15 hours? How many times have you changed the oil already? 4-5 times? Even a couple times? That would make a world of difference right there. Aluminum sure make a mess of oil quickly. And hot! The suspension gets abused more than any other part of your bike, except maybe the rider?
Posted by: torquecurveracing---------------------
Not quite sure how to respond to the previous post, "...first I have ever heard/read..." I would ignore this information and proceed with the sag setting method I listed. Fork sag and its relationship to shock sag is vitally important no matter what anyone tells you.
Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------
Do you have 1 reference from a reputable source that there is even such a thing as fork sag? I know a guy, I have checked, and rechecked his set up information, and the service manual? Where does this information come from? Guy talk, race track talk or just trying to over complicate a simple procedure?
Posted by: torquecurveracing---------------------
Motocross & Off-Road Performance Handbook pg 58 and 59. This information was written by our very own moderator. I will admit that proper rear sag is the most effective adjustment, but the front sag cannot be ignored.
I would like to add that most viewers of this site are looking for info from suspension tuners and probably don't appreciate even friendly banter between tuners. In the future I would suggest emailing me with questions of this type. Although I think open discussion is good, arguing between tuners is not good for the industry. This is a big problem that I have seen on other forums. I was hoping to avoid that here.
Best Regards,
Posted by: whenfoxforks-ruled---------------------
Tuner? No, just someone else looking for solid imformation. Fork sag is not solid information, by any means. For MX, of course the suspension needs to work together. Way to variables as to why the front would not be working properly. There is still a lot of people hitting their air release valves with weight on the bike. CRF's are unbalanced? No, wait. Here comes Torque curve, signed on this month, quick check, SEEMINGLY a flat track specialist from Ohio?? This is the internet, I enjoy this site in particular, because of its tight moderation. I am confident you can get real information. Set the rear sag, get the proper springs, then see how you like it. It may need revalved. Beware of suspension tuners in wolves clothing. I have used a lot of big name companies, wolves. Jeremy at MX Tech is solid information, customer care and turn around. Front sag, reference only at best, where are you seated, have you released the air build up lately, has the units been serviced, and on and on. One thing at a time, go with what is in your manual.
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