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They'll Stick Your Kids? Really?
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Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Tell me this will get over-turned.
Insanity.

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Posted by: RM_guy---------------------

un-friggin-believable. Socialism here we come. Revolution is in the air.

Posted by: SS109---------------------

The day they try to do that to my kid would be the day I die or go to prison. There is no way in hell I would let them do it and I would repel them by force.

I'm really glad I don't live in a commie state.

Posted by: IndyMX---------------------

Mass has always been ahead of the curve on implementing socialist policy.

Posted by: ChopperDave---------------------

Non-liscensed medical personal???

Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Weren't some people killed with hastily concocted and administered swine flu vaccines back in the late seventies?

Posted by: IndyMX---------------------

According the CDC there have been only approx 1 million people who have contracted H1N1..

Consider the total population of over 300 million people, 1 million really isn't that much.

Sure, if you gather them all in one spot it's quite a lot of people, but really? a third of a percent of the total population and we're freaking out like its the black plague?

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/

Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyMX

a third of a percent of the total population and we're freaking out like its the black plague?

We're not freaking out......those who are freaking out are the same freaks who say we have a health care "crisis" rather than a health care problem.

Quote:

"never let a serious crisis go to waste"

Rahm Emanuel

Posted by: FruDaddy---------------------

I think it's time for me to leave Mass (wai,t I don't/won't live there). N Carolina is bad enough, I can barely wait to go home.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

I hope to God those people that were on the fence are seeing what these morons are doing to our country. Please, register to vote and vote them ALL out in 2010. It's our country and it's up to us to keep it. WE THE PEOPLE had better step up while we still can. Am I still allowed to say God?

This is not about the flu. It's about control. It's all about control.

I have never been more ashamed of and embarrased by my government leaders than I am right now.

Those of you that voted for this idiot, how's that hopey changey thing workin' for ya?

Posted by: Papakeith---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS109

The day they try to do that to my kid would be the day I die or go to prison.

They would simply arrest you and then administer the shot. Now get in line like a good subject. It's for your own good.

Posted by: jsantapau---------------------

Papakieth ,
love your signature line another couple of quotes I like

Democracy is nothing more than the fox watching the chickens,freedom is when you arm the chickens.......&...... People should not be afraid of the government,the government should be afraid of the people

Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

This is all laying the ground work for the future, when everyone will get their annual required shot from the government.

We must trust the government, don't ya know. They know what is good for the collective.

Get your shot. Make certain your kids get their annual shots, or you are a bad American.

After 10 years or so of the annual shot becoming ingrained into the culture, it can be used to 'save' us from all sorts of horrible things, like perceived overpopulation.

Take your shot, Johnny #147369. In addition to your annual vaccines, the government has decided we need to sterilize you to save the planet from global warming.

Posted by: Papakeith---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsantapau

Papakieth ,
love your signature line another couple of quotes I like

Democracy is nothing more than the fox watching the chickens,freedom is when you arm the chickens.......&...... People should not be afraid of the government,the government should be afraid of the people

I have the following quote hung on the wall of my office.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the Public with the Public's money."
Alexis De Tocqueville (1835)

Posted by: jsantapau---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt bike dave

This is all laying the ground work for the future, when everyone will get their annual required shot from the government.

.

After 10 years or so of the annual shot becoming ingrained into the culture, it can be used to 'save' us from all sorts of horrible things, like perceived overpopulation.

Take your shot, Johnny #147369. In addition to your annual vaccines, the government has decided we need to sterilize you to save the planet from global warming.

interesting &thought provoking,although I am not too thrilled with the idea of money ruling the medical field but most people will do what it takes to survive and try to lead a healthy life even if it does involve the beg borrrow or steal philosophy...... now if we have a socialized healthcare not only is the buearacracy(sp?) damaging to time sensitive situations but how about the open door for the abuse of a clerk thinking "I don't like the way this guy looks so lets just lose the paperwork for a bit" and as you say the government starting to decide what life is worth.

on a tangent of fixing healthcare and its costs I think one of the first things they should do is ban drug commercials,(this pill will make you happy go tell your doctor) . The millions spent on advertising should go directly into R&D or manufacturing to produce better or cheaper medicines .Shouldn't cost the taxpayers much to make that law besides that maybe more intelligent choices will be made between doctor and patient than the "I have seen it on tv I want to be a carefree doped up person in this sheople society"

Posted by: BadgerMan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsantapau

on a tangent of fixing healthcare and its costs I think one of the first things they should do is ban drug commercials,(this pill will make you happy go tell your doctor) . The millions spent on advertising should go directly into R&D or manufacturing to produce better or cheaper medicines .Shouldn't cost the taxpayers much to make that law besides that maybe more intelligent choices will be made between doctor and patient than the "I have seen it on tv I want to be a carefree doped up person in this sheople society"

Like or not, drug companies develop, certify, market, and sell drugs because it’s profitable, not because they want to make you feel better. You are just lucky to be able to benefit from their profit driven motives. If the federal government gets too involved and adversely impacts their earnings, drug companies may ultimately just decide to forgo development of new drugs.

Personally, I think tort reform is a large part of the solution.

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

while I don't agree with what they are trying to do in Massachusetts, I will personally be getting myself the H1N1 vaccine since there's a pretty good chance I'll get exposed while doing my EMT stuff. I have already gotten Hep A and B, and had my TB test. I get a flu shot every year (if I don't get the flu first).

since we're going on tangents, I wish there was a news source I could stand to watch. The mainstream is just a bunch of Obama sycophants, while Fox News is over-reactionary on almost every topic. They yell too much on there! I guess that's what's nice about the interwebs: I can pick and choose where I get my news, and I can pick and choose whether I can believe what I'm reading or watching.

your pal,

pred

Posted by: _JOE_---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRpredator

I guess that's what's nice about the interwebs: I can pick and choose where I get my news, and I can pick and choose whether I can believe what I'm reading or watching.

Absolutely

Posted by: Bodge---------------------

Why would anyone prevent themselves or their kids from getting this shot? That bill in Mass. is crazy but H1N1 is already a pandemic, but has not infected many yet, hopefully it will stay that way.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Why would anyone prevent themselves or their kids from getting this shot?

Oh I don't know, maybe because vaccines have been known to kill more people than the illness they were designed to fight? ie; the last time the "pandemic" swine flu "ravaged" America in the 70's? Look it up.

Or maybe it's the fact that forced injections are just a TAD bit of piss on the Constitution?

Or maybe parents actually decide what goes into their kids veins?

Get the shot if you like, get the shot for your kids if you like.... key point being "if you like".

Posted by: SS109---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodge

Why would anyone prevent themselves or their kids from getting this shot? That bill in Mass. is crazy but H1N1 is already a pandemic, but has not infected many yet, hopefully it will stay that way.

U.S population: 304,059,724
U.S. deaths from H1N1: 522
Percentage of U.S. population/H1N1 deaths: 0.00017167679860158%

Yes, death sucks. However, the numbers show this to be totally insignificant as far as a real health concern in the U.S compared to just about anything else us humans die from.

Quote:

Heart disease: 652,486 - 27.2%
Cancer: 553,888 - 23.1%
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,074 - 6.3%
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 121,987 - 5.1%
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 112,012 - 4.7%
Diabetes: 73,138 - 3.1%
Alzheimer's disease: 65,965 - 2.8%
Influenza and Pneumonia: 59,664- 2.5%
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 42,480 - 1.8%
Septicemia: 33,373 - 1.4%

source:http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_05.pdf

If you notice, the regular flu/pneumonia stats are far more scary than the H1N1 stats.

Eh, if people want to believe in the fear mongering that the mainstream media and the White House try to feed them, so be it. I, for one, won't.

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever---------------------

I think I'm beginning to understand more and more why our constitution was written with so much precaution, holding those in political government employment highly accountable. I know our founding fathers had experienced oppressive government, that's why they left Europe and sought something with the PEOPLE'S interest in mind.
I believe the temptation of popularity, commanded respect, power, money, and all these things that tempt a political officer are most often too much temptation for human nature to withstand. Imagine making a speech to the public and everyone is cheering for YOU, they have banners and signs with YOUR name. (head swelling) Imagine the good pay, the retirement, and the seemingly unlimited finances to use to fulfill your agenda and if the money runs out, more taxes needed! Imagine a fellow party member doing a public statement that you know may not be entirely truthful, but you stay silent through it because "sometimes it's ok if the end result is best for the people"... perhaps I will zip it because I don't wish to handcuff myself when it's my turn to speak. A huge number of our politicians are lawyers which isn't always bad unless it's not so much the law they know, but the way AROUND it. The title "politician" can easily carry with it a "hero" status, and these things go to a person's head, our founding father's knew this.
Here's our problem: The very nature of "political correctness" does not allow accountability (everyone just be nice.) And the definition of "accountability" isn't exactly politically correct.
If I run for office, hold me accountable, because I'm like many others out there... I'm a selfish man.

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

. . . key point being "if you like".

that's the definition of freedom, my friends.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

So tonight the doc says my grandson has the flu .... (fever, aches, puking, etc)

Question: H1N1?
Answer: "that's the only flu going around right now".
Q: So, it's H1N1?
A: Uhhh... yes.

No, they didn't send a culture off to test for H1N1, apparently ANY flu detected right now will just be assumed H1N1. A little over the top? I guess we'll see how sick the little guy gets and if we catch it.

His lil brother was born just a few weeks ago, so he can't be around him. We are taking him in for the duration. Will update.

Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

Okie, best wishes for your grandson.

My 8 year old daughter was very sick a few weeks ago with some horrible respatory/breathing problems, which can be a symptom of H1N1. Her pediatrician's oncall nurse advised us to take her in on a Saturday to be checked out as a possible H1N1 case. They treated her with breathing treatments which made a HUGE improvement, but she was not hospitalized.

We found they only test for H1N1 in our area if they hospitalize you.

Did a little bit of research while she was sick, and it seems no more lethal than the standard flu. Pretty much the same symptoms as a normal flu, too. We had one nurse tell us that it can hit kids in the 8 - 12 year old range very hard.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Pretty much the same symptoms as a normal flu, too.

That's what strikes me so weird about this whole H1N1 thing.... seems like just another false flag to me... along with the what, 5-6 terror cases to make the news in the last week? The most recent here in Dallas....

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt bike dave

Okie, best wishes for your grandson.

Thanks for that, I'm sure he'll be just fine. Best to yours as well my friend, glad to hear she's better.

Posted by: SS109---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

That's what strikes me so weird about this whole H1N1 thing.... seems like just another false flag to me...

Yep, that is what I was trying to point out. The media hypes it and keeps the public scared. This way we look to our government to save us.

Anyways, I'm glad to hear that your daughter is doing well Dave and I hope for a quick recovery for your grandson Okie.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

So the pediatrician prescribes Tamiflu, but no one has it. Sooo... he found a place that has basically the raw components, but we have to put the capsules together (mix with syrup and water if I heard correctly). So we are running out of Tamiflu already?

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

I would imagine there has been quite a run on the Tamiflu, since that's the best preventative (or at least it eases the symptoms). If you can't find that, and he's running a fever, and can hold something down, rotate between children's Motrin and children's Tylenol every two hours (motrin at 8, tylenol at 10, motrin at 12, tylenol at 2, etc). That'll keep it knocked back to a relatively manageable temperature. That's what we had to do with my daughter for about three days.

a lot of docs aren't even doing the testing for the swine flu anymore, just treating it as any other flu. If symptoms are severe, they go the tamiflu route. Otherwise, same ol' standard: stay home, get rest, and drink plenty of fluids.

don't believe the hype, people. It's the flu. Wash your hands. cover your cough. and for god's sake, stay home if you're feeling sick and take care of yourself. Odds are you *will* get better, but it'll take a few days.

Posted by: jsantapau---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

So tonight the doc says my grandson has the flu .... (fever, aches, puking, etc)

Question: H1N1?
Answer: "that's the only flu going around right now".
Q: So, it's H1N1?
A: Uhhh... yes.

No, they didn't send a culture off to test for H1N1, apparently ANY flu detected right now will just be assumed H1N1. A little over the top? I guess we'll see how sick the little guy gets and if we catch it.

His lil brother was born just a few weeks ago, so he can't be around him. We are taking him in for the duration. Will update.

God bless for the little one just be real careful..... even something that seems like only a chest cold can turn into something called RSV which put my little one on a respirator for about 2 weeks when she was an infant

Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

My girl had RSV when she was 4 months old, and it was horrible. It's potentially lethal, and probably a big part of why she is prone to respatory problems now.

On the question of "Why is swine flu being hyped as a pandemic when it is no more dangerous or common than the regular flu?", I just had a (paranoid?) revelation this morning.

The catalyst was reading a column by a local business attorney on the importance of having policies in place for a pandemic. Basically, there are a myriad of issues that companies will face regarding sick leave, kid care, etc...during the pandemic which has already been declared, but has not yet hit.

Losing your work force for weeks at a time during a pandemic could push many small businesses over the edge, as many are hanging on by a thread.

IMO, our government is basically at war with small business. Very large businesses are much easier to enlist into a government/business co-operative. Does not matter that job creation in small businesses is typically what leads us out of a recession. This theory also explains why the Dow Jones can be doing well, while the small businesses are in the tank.

There are many examples of how government regulations and recommendations that 'cost' big business will hurt small businesses far more. Large companies are willing to incur (encourage?) an additional government required cost if they know it will put their smaller competitors out of business.

In a few months, your employees, supplier's employees and customer's employees will all have the 'right' to stay home for 2 weeks or so if they know someone who might have swine flu. It will probably be a few years before swine flu is no longer a problem, but something new will take its place, and the policies will be in place.

The real death toll in the Swine Flu pandemic could be small businesses.

Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:

rotate between children's Motrin and children's Tylenol every two hours

If you have kids, make sure you read this...

http://www.tylenolprofessional.com/...tter_091809.pdf

Posted by: 380EXCman---------------------

The world is upside down.......

Posted by: Cabot---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRpredator

I guess that's what's nice about the interwebs: I can pick and choose where I get my news, and I can pick and choose whether I can believe what I'm reading or watching.

(although slightly out of context) With that statement being said, here is an interesting article about vaccines.
http://drtenpenny.com/the_truth_about_the_flu_Shot.aspx

It gives reason that some people may choose to not have themselves or their children vaccinated.

Posted by: JuliusPleaser---------------------

Where was the uproar when Dubya passed PREP in 2006?

Quote:

In 2006, former President George Bush signed into law the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP). It gives power to the Secretary of the U.S. government's Health and Human Services department (HHS) to declare any infectious disease a "national emergency" and therefore require mandatory vaccination of the entire population. Because of the existence of this PREP Act, the entire population of the USA is now but one pen stroke away from being subjected to mandatory swine flu vaccinations at gunpoint.

Those who resist such vaccines will be arrested and taken away for "isolation" in domestic prison camps. They can't just leave vaccine refusers free to live among the population, of course, because that would send the message that anyone can refuse the vaccines without consequence. So they'll arrest those who refuse the vaccine, labeling them "a threat to national security" (enemies of the state) and imprison them without trial, without charges and without any legal representation whatsoever.

Meanwhile, all those who take part in enforcing these crimes against the American people will be granted complete immunity. From the HHS website: "[the Secretary may] issue a declaration... that provides immunity from tort liability (except for willful misconduct) for claims of loss caused, arising out of, relating to, or resulting from administration or use of (vaccine or other pharmaceutical) countermeasures to diseases, threats and conditions determined by the Secretary to constitute a present, or credible risk of a future public health emergency..."

There are other laws already on the books that strip Americans of virtually all Constitutional rights in a "pandemic emergency" scenario. One such act is The Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Act (S. 3678), which probably merits another article altogether.

Have no illusions: At the stroke of a pen, the Constitutional rights of all Americans will be immediately suspended. Mandatory vaccinations and "decontaminations" will kick in and the mass arrest of resisters will begin. There will be no court, no trial, no jury and no due process. Your actions will be dictated to you by a law enforcement officer or a health care worker who has been granted complete immunity, so if you just happen to get kicked around a bit (or shot), there's really nothing you can do about it.

Also included was a provision granting immunity for the vaccine manufacturers - ie, if the vaccine you are forced to take kills/injures you, you or your family cannot recover damages in a court of law.

Quote:

. . the "Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act" – far-reaching and unprecedented legislation giving liability protection to vaccine makers and preempting state vaccine safety legislation for pandemic countermeasures. For a brief and excellent audio report of how the Congressional Leadership manipulated the Rules and attached their legislation to an unrelated Defense spending bill to get this legislation enacted click here.

This legislation, passed by the House of Representatives in the early morning hours of December 19, 2005 was muscled into the Department of Defense Appropriations, H.R. 2863, bill by Senator Frist and House Speaker Hastert despite assurances made to Representatives that this provision would not be attached to the Defense spending bill. Rep. Dan Burton (R-IN) spoke in opposition to the provision - you can read his remarks by clicking here – as did a number of Democrats, including House Appropriations Committee ranking Democrat David Obey of Wisconsin. "The conference committee ended its work with the understanding, both verbal and in writing, that there would be no, I repeat, no legislative liability protection language inserted in this bill," Obey said on the House floor.

"That legislation was unilaterally and arrogantly inserted into the bill after the conference was over," Obey said, adding that it was "a blatantly abusive power play by two of the most powerful men in Congress."

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser

Where was the uproar when Dubya passed PREP in 2006?

Also included was a provision granting immunity for the vaccine manufacturers - ie, if the vaccine you are forced to take kills/injures you, you or your family cannot recover damages in a court of law.

Still hung up on that George Bush thing eh JP

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

LOL... if it would have happened (H1N1 scare) and forced shots last year, trust me JP, I would be saying the same thing.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser

Where was the uproar when Dubya passed PREP in 2006?
.

Jeeze! Some things just never change.

How's that hopey changey thing workin out for ya JP?

You've been awful quiet lately. Been more noise coming out of Wasilla than out of you.

Posted by: SS109---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

LOL... if it would have happened (H1N1 scare) and forced shots last year, trust me JP, I would be saying the same thing.

Yep!

Posted by: JuliusPleaser---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

Jeeze! Some things just never change.

How's that hopey changey thing workin out for ya JP?

You've been awful quiet lately. Been more noise coming out of Wasilla than out of you.

It's working out great for me.

How's it working out for you?

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser

It's working out great for me.

How's it working out for you?

Ya gettin some obama bucks are ya jp

Posted by: Mfillhart13---------------------

We are now living in a commie country. If we the people don't do something it will only get worse. Eventually we will do something and its on our children and grand children.

Posted by: JuliusPleaser---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senior KX Rider

Ya gettin some obama bucks are ya jp

Nah. I just like the red color.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser

It's working out great for me.

How's it working out for you?

I hope you have collected a whole bunch of those shiny coins JP. I have a funny feeling you're gonna' need 'em.

So far, it's workin' pretty good for me. Only because I saw this coming many years ago and prepared for it. I also took the time to read into Obama's past and found out that he is a Socialist and most of his friends are either Marxist or flat out Communists. Would I vote for someone like that? Hell no!

Unfortunately, it's not working out for most of the people that I know. Many have lost their jobs and now possibly their homes. The motorcycle industry is in the dumper and many of my friends in the industry are either unemployed or will soon be.

You are typical of a blind liberal JP. The blind leading the blind. You only want to bash the previous administration for all of the ills of the world. Like most libs, you are too narrow minded to see that this has nothing to do with the sitting president or even the previous president.

I am sad to say that this country is divided like I have never seen before. Mostly because of people like you that are either too ignorant or too arrogant or too full of themselves to see the light. (Pick one.) Your only answer is, Bush did it. It's Bushes fault. Never any constructive criticism, only Bush bashing.

Don't you think people get tired of that?

Can't you see, this is what they want. Divide and conquer. While we are busy arguing with each other, they are pulling the rug out from all of us. This has been going on long before Bush. Long before Bush Sr. Long before you and I were born.

I am not happy about what GW did during his term. Especially with the Patriot Act. This is about freedom and we are rapidly losing ours. While we are busy arguing over who is the worst president, they are busy stripping away our rights. While we bash the Democrats or the Republicans, they write more bills to control what we do in our private lives. PREP is an excellent example of us losing our rights. Why hasn't your boy Barry rescinded it? Looks like he is ok with it too. Doesn't this bother you?

This is not about the sitting president or about the different political parties. This is about the United States citizen. We are ALL United States citizens and we have to stand together to fight this. We are ALL in this together.

I do not consider myself to be a Republican, a Democrat, a Liberal or a Conservative. I am a United States citizen and I will vote and live my life as a United States citizen. I will also fight for my country and its constitution as a United States citizen and I have absolutely no respect for those that only want to divide our country.

You just keep drinking that Liberal kool-aid JP. It seems to be working.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

I'll let JP respond if he wants to, then close it.
Any replies by others will be deleted.

Posted by: JuliusPleaser---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

Unfortunately, it's not working out for most of the people that I know. Many have lost their jobs and now possibly their homes. The motorcycle industry is in the dumper and many of my friends in the industry are either unemployed or will soon be.

Obama's been in office for less than 9 months. he must really be a Messiah if he can pull off a disaster of the magnitude of Bush's Recesssion in a mere 9 months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

You are typical of a blind liberal JP. The blind leading the blind. You only want to bash the previous administration for all of the ills of the world. Like most libs, you are too narrow minded to see that this has nothing to do with the sitting president or even the previous president.

It's always the "blind", "ignorant" "idiot" liberal, isn't it? I know where to place the blame for our country's current problems, and it isn't on Barack Obama. George Dubya Bush had unmitigated power in this country for 6 of his 8 years, and he drove this country straight into the crapper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

I am sad to say that this country is divided like I have never seen before. Mostly because of people like you that are either too ignorant or too arrogant or too full of themselves to see the light. (Pick one.) Your only answer is, Bush did it. It's Bushes fault. Never any constructive criticism, only Bush bashing.

Don't you think people get tired of that?

Can't you see, this is what they want. Divide and conquer.

This country is divided because of the constant hateful spin, lies, and propaganda that's perpetrated by the rightwing media. It's relentless. I swear - if Obama crapped solid gold turds, the right would complain because they weren't platinum. I don't agree with everything Obama has done, or everything he wants to do. I do believe he has the best interests of this country and the rest of the world at heart.

Most of the world believes that also - as evidenced by Obama's Nobel Peace Prize. Regardless, he's only been in office for nine months. That's hardly enough time to label the man a failure.

The Fox News crowd hasn't won a major election since 2004. Don't you think it's time to give the hate, hysteria, and fearmongering a rest? Obviously it isn't working.

Try something else. Please.

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser

. . . I swear - if Obama crapped solid gold turds, the right would complain because they weren't platinum.

Dude. I wouldn't complain. That would be pretty awesome.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser

I know where to place the blame for our country's current problems, and it isn't on Barack Obama. George Dubya Bush had unmitigated power in this country for 6 of his 8 years, and he drove this country straight into the crapper.

This country is divided because of the constant hateful spin, lies, and propaganda that's perpetrated by the rightwing media. It's relentless.

The Fox News crowd hasn't won a major election since 2004. .

Thanks JP.

You just proved my point.

Stick a fork in this one. I'm done.

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'89r

Thanks JP.

You just proved my point.

Stick a fork in this one. I'm done.

+1, POINT PROVEN IM DONE

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