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Difference between 200 & 220

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Posted by: Roof of Africa---------------------

Can anybody tell me which parts are unique to the 220?. I want to build a motor from a scrap 220 and a scrap 200 and need to know which parts are different on the 200. Is the stroke longer or is it just the bore?

Look forward to some guidance. Thanks


Posted by: Roof of Africa---------------------

OK, I have done a bit of research and it seems the 200 has 66x58 bore x stroke whilst the 220 is 69x58. This would imply that the crank & conrod is the same, so do the 200 casings accept the 220 barrel?

Anybody?


Posted by: Acblind---------------------

http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/200vs220.html

According to this the only difference is the size of the bore. The previous owner of my bike bored out the cylinder to accept a wiesco 69 mm piston, making the KDX 200 into a 220 but i don't know if he changed the crank shaft as well.


Posted by: mideastrider---------------------

Cylinder and head are different also the carb is smaller bore on the 220.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Not just the size of the bore is different. The cylinder porting is different as well. However, the bottom end is exactly the same. So, yes, the cylinders will interchange. You do have to use the correct head though. The 200 also has a larger carb.


Posted by: Roof of Africa---------------------

Thanks for the info.

The carb size I also picked up on. I would have expected it to be the other way round??


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

Neither carb is too small for either engine, and both must be tuned correctly to work well. So I think you could make either carb work well on either bike, but you could end up doing a lot of tuning work to reinvent the wheel switching to the non normal setup.

In theory the benefit of a larger carb is maximum air/fuel flow, and the benefit of a smaller carb is better mixes from higher air velocities at lower RPM's (i.e. better low RPM performance).

I've ridden a well tuned 220 with the small carb and a VForce reedblock, and a well tuned 225 (Eric Gorr porting) with the big carb, both pulled hard and ran great. I couldn't pick one as better than the other without a Dyno, and frankly I can't even guess which would win where.

Bottom line is that having the carb properly tuned to the rest of the bike is 90% of the solution, having the perfect carb for the bike is maybe 10% of the solution at most (IMHO).


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

I'll go out on a limb and say the larger carb size makes a considerable difference in top end performance. So for that, one carb is certainly "better" than the other. Likewise, the smaller carb provides better throttle response at lower rpm's, just like Reep has said. So if what you are after is low end throttle response, the smaller carb would be "better". Yes?


Posted by: ridejunky---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by julien_d
I'll go out on a limb and say the larger carb size makes a considerable difference in top end performance. So for that, one carb is certainly "better" than the other. Likewise, the smaller carb provides better throttle response at lower rpm's, just like Reep has said. So if what you are after is low end throttle response, the smaller carb would be "better". Yes?

That was the idea the engineers had in mind. The old brochures made it seem like it was some kinda break thru. Gotta love marketing but it was a common practice.


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

I couldn't tell a difference top end, either riding both bikes, or with both of us pulling WOT side by side in a field. We didn't do drag races, so there may be a difference, but you will have to go out of your way to find it on a normal woods ride.

Both ran badly jetted wrong, both ran like magic with the jets right.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Something was up with one bike or the other then. They are quite different in power delivery. Of course I have not ridden one with a 225 kit. I understand that adds gobs of low end and that top end might suffer.


Posted by: Roof of Africa---------------------

Who makes a 225 kit?


Posted by: mideastrider---------------------

Heres some 225 info
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/sh...?threadid=97100


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

Mine is a 225 (Eric Gorr more better everywhere port) with an FMF torque pipe and exhaust and boysen reed valves, properly jetted.

The 220 had a pro-circuit exhaust with a boyesen rad valve, properly jetted. No porting that I am aware of. I hope it has a Wiseco piston, but I could never get the owner to tear it down far enough to verify.

At the end of the day, they were both fairly fully tuned out machines, properly jetted within 5cc's of each other... so I wasn't surprised they are so similar.

I expect mine (Eric Gore kit with Wiseco and Nikisil) will go further between rebuilds though.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

I am surprised as well. I would expect the 200/225 to stomp the 220 all over the place. A stock 200 will beat out a 220 in a drag. Perhaps the 225 kit is not worth the cash?? Especially not if it causes you to LOSE performance, lol.


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

Both pull great. Remember, the 220 has a Rad valve and the full Pro-Circuit exhaust, and had the jetting dialed in.

I think the grief the 220's get is just that they weren't tuned, and being run up against well tuned 200's.

If you look at the carb manufactures recommendations, either carb is more than sufficient for the displacement. Once properly dialed in, I don't know why either should have that much of an advantage.

Both bike will outrun a CRF-450x or a KTM-520 in the woods (the bikes I ride with), not because it's faster, but because it's less likely to kill you on a whim. Both bikes get killed on an open field by either the Honda or the KTM. And both the Honda and the KTM would be killed by my Buell Ulysses in an 0 to 100mph drag race. Any my Ulysses would be killed by a GSXR1000. Which would be killed by an Erik Buell Racing 1190RS (360 wet pound VTwin with 180 RWHP).

What was the topic again?


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

lol


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

I really should take the time to put the 225 kitted and tuned setup on a dyno sometime and see what it is really doing.


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

I own a 2001 WR426 with open airbox, open exhaust, and it is properly tuned. I also own a 2002 KDX220 with 607 reeds, woods pipe, open airbox that I am sill trying to dial in. I rode both this last Saturday back to back. As you all might imagine, the 426 will absolutely run off and leave the KDX...tight woods, open straights, whatever. The advantage of the KDX is weight. It is more nimble and starting it doesnt make me feel like I ran a marathon. The WR is really more fun to ride, but the weight wears me out after a long day of riding.


Posted by: mudpack---------------------

If I were the OP, I might port the 220 cylinder to 200 specs, put the 200's carb on it, and have a nice ride.


Posted by: ridejunky---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudpack
If I were the OP, I might port the 220 cylinder to 200 specs, put the 200's carb on it, and have a nice ride.

I don't think you can do that, You can bore the 200. If I ware the OP I would get er running in any way I can, jet it good and ride. Remember, these are kdx's and they have a certain personality that keeps people riding them. I say, spend less time trying to re engineer it and you'll have more time to ride it.



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