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Reuniting with the KDX family, looking at a 01 KDX220

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Greetings everyone!! As the new thread says, I'm looking at a 01 220. I have read 51 pages of the suggested reading and looking for a few pointers. It is stock, it has soupage at the end of the pipe. Through the reading I understand I need to tinker with the jetting. I did ride it this evening. It bogged when I jumped on the throttle at first, but I fanned the clutch and away she went. She started right up, no issues. Idled fine, no up and down running. I'm guessing that has to do with improper jetting. When I got into second and third and fourth gear and jumped on the throttle, the front end came up quite easily and that was in the mud! I want to keep it stock, but get a set of Boyessen reeds, no pipe. Owner says he replaced the air filter with a k&n because the stock one wasted away. The seat is going to get shaved down a couple of inches, (vertically challenged) Anything else that I should be aware of?

The tank appears to have a leak on the seam, on the upper part of the tank, no dents in the pipe, the brakes/disc's are in great condition, nice and smooth, plenty of pads left on the rear and front pads. Chain and sprockets are in good shape. Looking for some "Might want to replace the........." suggestions. Thanks Dennis.


Posted by: Acblind---------------------

Check swingarm bushings and such, that's definately on the "might want to replace" list


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Acblind: HI have not bought the bike yet, I countered his asking price. How does one check the swing arm bushings? If you have seen the thread on " How To check the swing arm bearings" please attach to this reply. I went through 51 pages last night and didn't see anything, at least that caught my eye. Thanks Dennis


Posted by: Acblind---------------------

Here check this article out. It's basically a checklist of what to do when buying a used dirtbike.
http://www.dirtrider.com/tech/141_0...bike/index.html


Posted by: Acblind---------------------

and this is a kdx specific one, with things to look our for
http://www.dirtrider.com/features/w..._220/index.html


Posted by: David_L6---------------------

Dennis,

When I buy a used dirt bike I plan on replacing all the suspension bearings (swingarm, linkage, shock) and do a top end job as soon as I can afford all the parts. Usually the suspension bearings on an older dirt bike are all in need of replacement (at least they are on the bikes I find....) and I like knowing that I'm not running a piston that's ready to come apart. Once I get that done I start replacing other parts as I can - chain and sprockets, wheel bearings, tires, etc.... Of course I check anything I can before I buy a bike and prioritize repairs depending on what I find during inspection.

No personal experience with a 220 (I have a 200) but from what I've read, you'll want to do a top end job on it. I'd also have RB Designs correct the squish on the head and do his carb mods. That will make jetting easier in addition to giving it a little performance boost.


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

Stock piston on the 220 is a problem waiting to happen, so swap that out ASAP. To check rear bearings on suspension, lift up back of bike and see if you get a clunking when you lift the rear tire off the ground. That is play in the bearings, they need to be replaced. Squeeking or grinding bad also.

Sounds like the carb just needs properly jetted...


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

David_l6:

Acblind sent me a checklist of what to look for on the bike, suspension, forks, brakes/disc's, airbox, radiator and among other things. I pulled, twisted, cranked on the swing arm, calipers, forks and could not get a negative feel what so ever. So I picked it up tonight, just got home with it. I feel it needs to be taken out and rode like it has been longing for. I did take it for a quick blast down the road and noticed it flattened out in the top end, according to what I have read that is what it does, I'm ok with that. If I want to ride at break neck speed, I'll get on the Fizzer. If I'm not mistaken the Boyesson reed's will give me some more low end to midrange power.

The shifting is smooth and finding neutral is easier then my FZ1 or the Honda 150 F.
I'm not looking to modify heavily, I want to clear it up a little, meaning right off the bat in first gear, she is jumpy, wanting to take off. May have to tune out or in the air screw like it has been suggested to clear it up. Did I mention I gave $1250.00 for it, he came down $50.00 bucks as I stood there in silence looking at it for about five minutes.

I'll be looking at the threads pretty heavily this week and getting more info. Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

reepicheap:

If I pull the exhaust off and take a glance inside at the piston, will this give me a better look at what you have suggested, as far as piston issues go? I have read on a couple of different threads that the 220 piston failure is not at all common, maybe one in thousands of bikes that it may happen to? No disrespect intended here at all, but is it just paranoia based on what others have heard and not actually experienced?
I'm looking for some good factual experiences. The KDX I have is the 220R, thanks Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Now that several individuals and a couple of threads have put the "Paranoia" into me maybe I will get the Wiesco piston and rings, but which piston to get? I want to say it is the 69.00 mm bore size, 58.00 mm stroke? Sound about right? Now I'm not a motor head, but messing with this kips valve while replacing the piston sounds like a serious pain in the arrss, is this true???????? Dennis


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

Get the wiseco. I bought a 200, beat to death, and inspected the piston from on top and through the ports. Looked OK. But my output shaft was stripped, so I had to split the cases anyway. When I pulled the jug, there was a nice little crack working it's way up the side of the piston (stock part for 200, though probably not original).

After enjoying mine, another buddy found a 220 for sale and bought it. The guy was very frank about the history of the bike. He said half the crankcase was replaced 6 months after he got the bike because the stock piston let go, and the resulting carnage trashed half his case.

My bore was also shot, so I just had Eric Gorr do the 220 more better everywhere port. He did the KIPS for me. But I think you can probably flush it all out pretty easily once you have it apart. If it looks clean, check for crank play, slap in a new wiseco piston, and just ride it.

Thats a good deal for a 220. Jet it right and it'll rip right off idle.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

reepicheep: Forgive me, You have to speak English. Jug, out put shaft, WTF does that mean? (LOL.) In other words DO NOT RIDE IT until the piston has been replaced. Another question to anyone reading this. If the Piston has not taken a dump yet, it would be safe to say that the cylinder is good enough shape for the Weisco?
Thanks to all who have chimened in and to those who will. Dennis


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

Sorry! The output shaft is the transmission output shaft, which is where the front chain sprocket mounts. It has splines (ridges) that keep the sprocket turning with the shaft rather then just sitting there spinning. The previous owners of my project KDX were not kind people, and ran either the wrong sprocket on there, or ran the right one far longer than they should have. As a result, the splines were just about gone. Nothing to do but replace the transmission output shaft, which means splitting the cases and doing a complete teardown. Yours is probably fine, my was damaged by previous owner stupidity. Given how badly this bike was treated, it was probably the right thing to tear it all the way down regardless...

By jug, I just meant the cylinder, sorry. The part that contains the piston.

If you can drag a fingernail around the inside of the cylinder and feel it click over grooves, then you probably need it redone. The service manual also gives wear limits for size, but it can be tricky to measure.

I think stock the cylinder is a tungsten vapor deposition coating of some sort... not the best, but not awful. So if it's in good shape I would keep running it, but if it's grooved you want to re-do it.

For mine, I went with the Eric Gorr 225 cc rebore and Nikasil plating. Nikasil is great stuff, transfers heat like crazy (to get the heat out of the motor) and lasts forever. It's the right "high tech" solution. Not cheap, but not awful either given how long it lasts. I really thought that was the only real option when I did mine. Going to 225 means its a standard Wiseco forged piston size. Out the door, I think the whole thing (bore, plate, KIPS cleaning and timing, Wiseco piston kit with bearings rings and clips) was $500 or so.

When we bought that 220 for a buddy, he said he had a local guy with a good reputation just slap in an old school iron sleeve for under $100 (including labor). Not as high tech, but it seemed to be working really well. Not sure what that really costs, but it's a straightforward job. And if you get damage on that, you can find locals that'll rebore iron cylinders for $60 or so, and just put in an oversize piston.

So I like my fancy Nikasil setup, but there are other decent options.


Posted by: mudpack---------------------

Next thing to do after the piston/rings is pull the rear suspension linkage and shock mounts apart and clean and grease the bearings. Next, pull the triple clamps off and inspect, clean and grease the steering head bearings. Be sure to torque the stem nuts and clamp bolts to the proper torque readings when re-assembling.
Change gearbox oil and fork oil, using good brands of lubricants. Oil the clutch cable. Flush both brake systems and use fresh synthetic brake fluid. Check all the bolts for proper torque.
Have fun.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

reeipcheep: Thanks for the clarification, I'm not much of a motor head but I do catch on pretty quick. With the right tools and guidance I can pretty much do anything. Thanks for the clarification and advice.

mudpack: Thanks for the info, I have time to get everything ready before the first big ride in April. What type/brand of gearbox oil do you recommend? Does Bel-Ray still exist? That's what I used back in the 80's when I bought the first series of KDX's that came out. I remember Cycle World calling it "an angry hive of bees" I had to have it, so I did. Thanks Dennis


Posted by: KDXIdaho---------------------

I recently purchased a clean '96 KDX200 for $700 (sweet, I know) and have been going through the same maintenance checks with this bike. Here are few things on this bike that needed attention before I hit the trail:

Loose spokes

Front and rear wheel bearings (mine needed replacing on both ends)

Grease - cleaned and greased steering head, shock linkages

Check air filter - air filters degrade over time; make sure that the foam and glue hasn't deteriorated (holes/tears), clean, and reoil

Leaking fork and shock seals - I replaced them all

Bleed brakes - I used the reverse bleed method with Dot 4

Clean out fuel bowl - Junk can lay in the bowl and get pulled up into the main jet at some random inopportune time; good time to clean the bowl and check the jet size for future reference

Repacked silencer (stock silencer doesn't need repacking)

Check cables - You wouldn't think that this to be an issue, but mine had a wrong length throttle cable and it would bind at full lock. Make sure your cables are correct, in good condition, correctly routed, and lubed.

Check radiator fluid condition/level or, better yet, change it

Change trans oil

New plug

Since some folks have already talked about piston replacement, I'll leave that be.

Good luck and enjoy,


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

KDXIdaho: Thanks for the info, some of this I checked before I bought it, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded of it. Good info on the carb and trash that more than likely is laying in the bowl. What brand of tranny fluid are you running? Just curious, putting out some feelers. Is anyone using Bel-Ray anymore? Loved the smell of the Bel-Ray pre mix, brings back memories. One more thing, what type of grease are you using to pack the bearings? White Lithium?. Thanks Dennis


Posted by: KDXIdaho---------------------

Many suggest a waterproof belray grease, but I simply use Pennzoil red grease. Good stuff IMO and easy to get. I'm not sure about white lithium - some other folks might chime in, but to me that seems to be too light. Tranny fluid used to be a big debate years ago on this board, but the general consensus finally boiled down to that it didn't really matter that much. Mobile 1 ATF, straight up motor oil, regular atf, speciality moto oil all seemed to work for most folks. Personally, i run synthetic atf overfilled a bit - between 800 - 900cc.

Good luck,
KDXIdaho


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

most of us longtimers have settled with the cheapest ford type f we can find for the tranny oil...seems to promote frequent changes and that equals smooth shifting and zero problems..so if you want to spend $15 a quart and crindge at the thought of an oil change that is your business no fights here.

I fill to the top of the sight glass when the bike is on the side stand.

any grease is good as long as you do the task, the factory seems to not put alot in.. I have used the red GM grease for years but recently switched to the marine grade water proof grease, it is also apparently very resistant to soap too (yuk..so buy some rubber gloves)

I have never had a 220 so I don't know if the legend is true about the piston but there sure is enough out there that I would at least pull the jug (covered earlier by reep) to take a peak.

the best thing I could tell you is to buy a new air filter pre oiled and then take the old one and at your leasure clean it and oil it and stick it in a big zip-loc bag so that later down the road when it needs changed you can just pull it out and swap em, otherwize the peak under the seat check will be fogged by the thought of having take out, to clean and oil and reinstall ....and to many times you will convince yourself that it looks "OK"

But when you have a filter ready to go it turns into " well hell I got the seat off, so why not" and you can stick the nasty one in the bag till your ready to mess with it.

It may not sound like rocket science but it makes sense right?


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder:

Thanks for the info. There is a K&N airfilter in it already, the previous owner threw the old one away, but I should be able to get one from some where for dirt cheap, Anyone have one they want to give to a new KDX 220R Owner? I took a good peak at the filter and it appeared to be quite dry. This weekend I will get out there and pull some things off and complete a heavy inspection. I agree with the piston issue, I have not started or ridden it since the paranoia set in. I'll be rewarded in the end by being patient. Thanks for the advice and it does make sense. I agree with the tranny oil as well, I don't want a Mercedes but I don't want a Yugo, make sense? Thanks again. Dennis


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

next best advice I can give you is that although K&N may be a top choice for the automotive industry, they have no business in the in the dirt bike/ 4wheeler industry and to throw that k&n out and grab a few no-tiol filters or better yet but more $$ uni filters and go from there.

reports as they may be is that K&N can not filter as good as the conventional dual foam elements and oil and allow the nasties free access to the goodies

with that bit of info about the k&n being in charge of filtration I would be 5 times more paranoid about the cylinder/ piston conditions,. sorry but IMPO thats all I got to say about that.


you have got a kdx... far from mercedes and yugo both..feed it fresh cheapo type f every few rides and it will be happy as a kdx can be. though it would be even happier as a kdx200

BTW yugo is a very dated brand you must be in your 40's because they where not around long at all if I recall right I'm thinking 85 or 86 and they did not have long lives at all..."you go but the car don't"!!


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

J.C. may pop his head up out of the snow and come out of hibernation for a moment and reword this for me or maybe even come up with his own set of clever anologies to better explain!


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

I'm looking at the UNI filter anyway, I have one in the CRF. You are correct, I'll be 48 next month and the better half thinks I'm losing it. I'll be ordering the Shop Manual and supplement tomorrow, then getting the Weisco piston and rings. This weekend I'm gonna start tearing her down and eyeballing everything and re-packing everything that needs it. I want to take her for a ride this weekend , but don't want to take a chance of her taking a dump on me. Dennis


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

best practice is to order the piston after you take the cylinder of and inspect it and the piston, it may have a wiseco in it already


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5riddeer: I never thought of that, that's a great idea. I'll begin to break her down tomorrow and get a good look at everything.

The previous owner left about a half a gallon of gas in it so I decided to take her and ride the gas out of it. WOW!!! I must of got one that was built on Wednesday because this thing runs like a scalded dog!! When I first started out on her, I was a little skeptical, then I cranked on her in third gear and the front end rolled up, I let off the gas a little bit, then hit fourth gear same thing. As I was rolling into the wheelie she just picked up speed and keep the wheelie steady. I then dry shifted into fifth and she finally came down, only because I began to run out of room and not to sure of what to expect from her. I was only on the bike for about ten minutes. It was very hard to get off the bike, but at the same time in the back of my mind was "change the piston, change the piston". Before I did take her out, I changed the oil. the previous owner said he did not touch the oil, only the plug. The old oil was as clean as the new I put in, strange. I believe I told sr5ridder the air filter was pretty dry, nope got a good look at it, had a sheen on it, not wet but moist. When I get this thing dialed in (jetted properly) this is gonna be a fast KDX. IMO, I can't see how the 200 is faster, in some others opinion's. The bike has a great constant pull from the low RPM's, thru the mid range. The top end on it actually surprised me, it did not flatten out like I previously stated, it pulled until I shut her down.

The suspension pretty much sucks at this point, probably because I have not try to dial it in for my weight (165lbs) The front got pretty squirrel y on me a couple of times, but again, It's not dialed in. I do have a full Race Tech suspension on the my 150F and it blows the Kaw's suspension away. The only thing that will make this bike a complete package is that someone already put a Weisco piston and rings in it. I'll find out next week.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr5bidder
J.C. may pop his head up out of the snow and come out of hibernation for a moment and reword this for me or maybe even come up with his own set of clever anologies to better explain!


I couldn't have worded that any better my friend, lol. My feelings exactly.

The 200 is faster as in it has more performance in the upper RPM range. Right about the time the 220 is falling flat in a given gear, the 200 is really waking up. It's all about what you want though. The 220 certainly has a stronger pull off-idle.

Seems like I've missed a lot in this thread... I will review. Congrats on your bike, you will love it . I agree with SR5 strongly on the type F. My KDX likes it better than anything else. Smoother shifts, and easier to find neutral, and less clutch drag. Also on the K&N. Hang it on your garage wall as art if you want, but don't leave it in the bike. I'm not even sure why they bother making them if they can't be bothered to research the correct way to do it.

re: suspension. At the very least you will want to spring that front end. Check racetech for springs for your weight. Some people use stock XR springs. Not sure what model, but someone will chime in with that info. I opted for an MX fork swap myself, but that is completely up to you. You will probably be ok with the stock rear spring after you set the sag and get the clickers set correctly.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

denbsteph.

I was re-reading and see you want to shave the seat, and wanted to let you know I have a seat that I shaved and put a gripper cover on you could have for shipping.

Also I have a set of lowering links (kouba KDX-1) I do not use any longer that I could send out half price (same deal I gave another member)


Posted by: Acblind---------------------

I'm not sure if the 220 seat would fit my '95 200 but if it does i'd take it. I'm not looking to step on any toes, denbsteph would have first dibs on it obviously.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Acblind: Thank you for not throwing me under the bus and taking the seat, you are a gentleman and a scholar! I have been gone all day, first time on today.

sr5bidder: I'll take you up on the seat!! How much did you shave off ? The links I'll take as well! Good looking out! PM me with the details. Dennis

julien_d: Thanks for the info, where can I find " type F " tranny oil? I can't seem to locate it. Question to all of those who are following this thread. On the 220, does the clutch seem to have a "low toned rumble" to it when not engaged? Is this what "clutch drag" is? Everything shifted great yesterday, neutral was easy to find whether coasting to a stop or standing still looking for it.

The shop Manual plus the supplement is on the way, should be here mid week. Looking forward to looking inside the "Jug" and seeing a Weisco piston. I like the pull right off the get go, plus thru the mids and into the top end, something different about this one, it did not appear to "top out" it kept pulling. Then again, I did not peg her in 6th gear, did not want the piston to have a melt down on me. Dennis


Posted by: Acblind---------------------

It was offered to you first and I respect that. Like I said I'm not here to step on any toes. That being said, if anyone has seat foam/cover for a kdx 200 they'd like to part with let me know. The one i have on there now is the original from 15+ years ago, and needless to say its pretty worn.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Type F you should be able to find at wal-mart, or any auto parts supplier.

The low rumble you hear at idle is most likely kips rattle. The KDX is famous for it.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

julien_d: It goes away when I engage the clutch, I hear it on the side of the clutch, any reason to be concerned? Does the KIPS rattle all the way thru the motor? Dennis


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
I like the pull right off the get go, plus thru the mids and into the top end, something different about this one, it did not appear to "top out" it kept pulling. Then again, I did not peg her in 6th gear, did not want the piston to have a melt down on me. Dennis


we have six gears?? I loose count from being excited I will take your word for it though I also have many bikes and a new 4 wheeler 92' warrior (not new by far) so I really don't count gears


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

It's a habit that's hard to break, counting gears. I had a 84 nighthawk s that told me what gear I was in, so I'm always counting gears. It's like adding up the numbers on license plates, stupid quirk, don't ask!


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr5bidder
we have six gears?? I loose count from being excited I will take your word for it though I also have many bikes and a new 4 wheeler 92' warrior (not new by far) so I really don't count gears



lol. How often do you think we hit that sixth gear @ brown?


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by julien_d
lol. How often do you think we hit that sixth gear @ brown?



that would be a big fat ZERO dude

and as if you would be able to count gears with that deadly crap


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Originally Posted by julien_d
lol. How often do you think we hit that sixth gear @ brown?

Are you referring to Brown Mountain OHV Trails?

A bunch of us from work hit the "Outlaw Trails" in WV a couple of times a year.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Yeah, brown mountain . One of my regular stomping grounds. Some good spots up in WV too, for sure.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Hatfield McCoy...yeah come on!


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
julien_d: It goes away when I engage the clutch, I hear it on the side of the clutch, any reason to be concerned? Does the KIPS rattle all the way thru the motor? Dennis



yeah they are suppose to sound like a desiel on crack and pulling in the clutch changes the sound a bit..

try to run the type f and fill it to the top of the sight glass while on the stand it may lessen the noise

BTW whats the news on the piston?

you could just pull the head cap and see if there is a wiseco part number on the top of the piston and then run the piston to BDC and look at the cylinder if all is good then just use some copper spray-a-gasket on both sides of the head gasket and reassemble... Julien_d and I have both reused the head gasket before....mine has over one year on it no probs


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Yeah, I used one head gasket 3 or 4 times and never had a problem. It got a new one when I put my RB modded head on though.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5: I'm waiting on the shop manual, but since you have given some insight on what to look for, I'll give her a whirl tomorrow evening. What have you heard personally about the Boyesson Rad Valve? I'm narrowing my parts wish list down and was looking at the Boyesson reeds. Part list as follow.

Weisco piston and rings of course
Uni Filter
FMF gnarly Rev pipe (looking hard at it)
Reed valves (possibly Rad Valve)
not looking to make her fast in the top end, trying to keep the low end grunt established, love that pulling thru the mid range.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

We haven't been to H & M because alot of us are packing and like to drink a beer here and there. I have heard, never experienced it, but they have Motorcycle cops (so to speak) that check your bike. We usaully ride the coal reclaims, ride into Welch. Average mileage per day is 50 miles. It's dangerous up there but it's fun. Hopefully this year I can get the KDX up there. The Honda runs well up there, I give all those big bore bikes and four wheelers hell. I'll download some pics later today. Dennis


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
sr5: I'm waiting on the shop manual, but since you have given some insight on what to look for, I'll give her a whirl tomorrow evening. What have you heard personally about the Boyesson Rad Valve? I'm narrowing my parts wish list down and was looking at the Boyesson reeds. Part list as follow.

Weisco piston and rings of course
Uni Filter
FMF gnarly Rev pipe (looking hard at it)
Reed valves (possibly Rad Valve)
not looking to make her fast in the top end, trying to keep the low end grunt established, love that pulling thru the mid range.



I would just go for the boysen 607 reeds for $35... the rad valve is not too popular with the kdx guys, those who do spend money go for the V-Force reed cage assemble.. I met some one out in the field who had the kdx200 and the rev pipe and the v-force and it was insane


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
We haven't been to H & M because alot of us are packing and like to drink a beer here and there. I have heard, never experienced it, but they have Motorcycle cops (so to speak) that check your bike. We usaully ride the coal reclaims, ride into Welch. Average mileage per day is 50 miles. It's dangerous up there but it's fun. Hopefully this year I can get the KDX up there. The Honda runs well up there, I give all those big bore bikes and four wheelers hell. I'll download some pics later today. Dennis



I never seen any "cops" up there I was on the buffalo MT. trails. I did almost get busted just over the bridge from Matewan WV. in kentuky for the front end coming up while riding on the road, good thing the cop was too lazy to get out of the car!! I had a pretty good buzz going, it would have been really bad.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

I'm gonna pull the top of the cylinder off Sunday, I hope. Relatives are down on the wife's side so I have been locked in, trying to stay out of trouble. I still have not got my shop manual yet, I need to call them some time and get the scobby on "Where it is" I'm assuming I need to drain the Radiator just to get to the top of the cylinder off?, I have not really got down and looked at it. Been doing a lot of research on what the 220's possible faults are. Dennis


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

denbsteph

I am far from a KDX expert, but I do own a 220. I just installed a set of 607 Boyesen reeds and I noticed a slight gain on the top end..I am still working on the jetting. I have a FMF Woods pipe and an open air box...the bike has tons of low end grunt. From your thread above, it sounds like you are looking for low end more than top end. If that is the case, I would think the rev pipe would be a waste of money. I would also not bother with the rad valve. If you are set on buying a pipe, you can find either one (Desert or Woods) new on Fleabay for about $200.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Woods pipe supposedly does not work very well with the 220.


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

Thats what alot of people say, but it really depends on the bikes purpose. Its really hard to beat the woods pipe for tight, technical trails. That is the main reason I havent bought a desert pipe...I dont want to sacrifice much bottom end for top end. Why spend the $200 for a rev pipe if the guy only wants low end power?


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_dallas
Thats what alot of people say, but it really depends on the bikes purpose. Its really hard to beat the woods pipe for tight, technical trails. That is the main reason I havent bought a desert pipe...I dont want to sacrifice much bottom end for top end. Why spend the $200 for a rev pipe if the guy only wants low end power?


Well, here's how it's been told to me. The woods pipe simply doesn't match up well with the 220's porting. Doesn't do much to improve low end, and kills what little top end there is.

Likewise, the rev pipe does not sacrifice bottom end on the 220, but will add a bit of midrange grunt and over-rev. You could consider it a "torque" pipe for the 220 and a "rev" pipe for the 200.

I haven't got personal experience here, so consider that regurgitated information.

Here. read this bit from the justkdx.dirtrider.net tech tips section

Quote:
Its important to note that because of differences in port timing the KDX200 and 220 don't react the same to each pipe. Both the FMF pipes and the Pro Circuit pipe were originally designed to be used on the KDX200. Installing a Torque pipe on a KDX200 will improve performance over the stock pipe from idle to wide open throttle. However installing a torque pipe on a KDX220 will improve performance from idle to about 7500 rpm then fall flat just like the stock pipe with no meaningful increase in over rev or higher rpm performance. If you're looking to improve your 220's power delivery from the bottom to top end then a rev pipe is a must. You'll often see the FMF KG-30 advertised as a rev pipe for the 200 and as a torque pipe for the 220 for this very reason. The torque pipe is still a viable choice for 220 owners who focus the majority of their riding in tight technical conditions or for those who want to maximize bottom to mid performance and are willing to give up some upper mid to top end performance in trade.


So yes, you can use the woods pipe on your 220. It won't necessarily add much more bottom end than the rev pipe though, and will leave you with a bike that requires short shifting.


Posted by: Dirtdame---------------------

I ride in a lot of dry rocky loose terrain out here. I like the desert (rev) pipe on my 220. The bike has a soft, smooth hit on the bottom and once you hit midrange, there is plenty of quick acceleration. This type of power delivery agrees with my riding style in tight, technical stuff. And I really like the fact that the power keeps going after midrange. It was something that I really disliked about the stock pipe....jerky power delivery off the bottom and the motor just went dead after about half throttle.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
I'm gonna pull the top of the cylinder off Sunday, I hope. Relatives are down on the wife's side so I have been locked in, trying to stay out of trouble. I still have not got my shop manual yet, I need to call them some time and get the scobby on "Where it is" I'm assuming I need to drain the Radiator just to get to the top of the cylinder off?, I have not really got down and looked at it. Been doing a lot of research on what the 220's possible faults are. Dennis



yes you will want to drain the coolant out, take the tank and seat off,and remove the radiators for better "working room around the cylinderhead.

I would also remove the pipe and carb/ reed block to so you can peak in at the cylinder walls and piston skirt.

when you have the reeed block off you can inspect the reeds and see if there are 607's in there already too


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5: Sounds good, I'll get on her tomorrow afternoon. I'll look at everything before I make any decisions on what I will be buying. Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

I still have not got my shop manual, WTF!!! in-laws are still here, took them out to the lake today, cooked some food, talked junk. Had a good time.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
I still have not got my shop manual, WTF!!! in-laws are still here, took them out to the lake today, cooked some food, talked junk. Had a good time.


well do they deliver mail on sundays in Tn.?

I if didn't have something by saturday I would not expect another shot of getting it till monday


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by julien_d
Well, here's how it's been told to me. The woods pipe simply doesn't match up well with the 220's porting. Doesn't do much to improve low end, and kills what little top end there is.

Likewise, the rev pipe does not sacrifice bottom end on the 220, but will add a bit of midrange grunt and over-rev. You could consider it a "torque" pipe for the 220 and a "rev" pipe for the 200.

I haven't got personal experience here, so consider that regurgitated information.

Here. read this bit from the justkdx.dirtrider.net tech tips section



So yes, you can use the woods pipe on your 220. It won't necessarily add much more bottom end than the rev pipe though, and will leave you with a bike that requires short shifting.



I bought the bike with the woods pipe installed. Based on the information in this forum, I would have gone with the Desert pipe. I guess I could spend the $200 and have first hand experience with the pipe issue. Maybe I could sell the woods pipe to someone with a 200.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_dallas
I bought the bike with the woods pipe installed. Based on the information in this forum, I would have gone with the Desert pipe. I guess I could spend the $200 and have first hand experience with the pipe issue. Maybe I could sell the woods pipe to someone with a 200.


Often times a 220 guy with a woods pipe trades to a 200 guy with a rev, seeing how one works better for one bike and the other better on the other... lol.

It's certainly worth a shot. Of course, you DO have a very valid point. If the majority of your riding is in super tight technical terrain low RPM stuff, and you rarely have opportunity to wring it out in a straight trying to catch your buddy on his 450, then the woods pipe is certainly not a bad choice for you.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

jb_dallas: Thanks for the info, and you are correct, I like the low end to mid range pull. When I did ride her, the top end pull was there, it kept pulling. I have only ridden her for a short time. As far as what type of riding I will be doing on it, not sure I'm dialing into one specific type. I will take her to WV (Outlaw Trails) possibly NCMP (trial run) and more than likely Hatfield and McCoy's trails. I have been to Brushy Mountain, not enough rolling straight a way's for me to crank her up for a short distance. I had my 150 up there and found the riding "cramp", if that makes since. Then again, I was up there when they had a Hare Scrambles race and half the trails were closed.

sr5bidder: I have not gotten a chance to do any wrenching, hopefully I can get started tomorrow, shop manual or no shop manual. The in-laws have vacated the premises and the weather is supposed to be bearable the next couple of days. As far as the mail running on Sunday in TN, not really sure, I reside in NC and it does not. I was gone all day Saturday and got back late, that's why the "WTF" comment LOL!!. Dennis


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

ok got mixed up


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Well I found out why I have not received the Supplement and Service manual, the sales rep failed to tell me that it will be 2-3 weeks before it arrives at Ron Ayers! Holy Sh**!! Kawasaki sends it by snail mail...........aarrggghhhhh!!!

Anyone out there running the stock pipe but has re jetted it to lose that LOW END jerkyness? (is that a word?) Looking to keep the stock pipe at this time and get it smoothed out. Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

UPDATE: UPDATE: UPDATE:

I pulled the top of the cylinder off this evening, actually it was pretty easy, took about a hour to get everything off. First off there is NO NUMBERS on the top of the piston. I had an idea that there was no Wiesco piston inside due to, what appeared to be the OEM RED/PINK locktite on the nuts and bolts. Everything came off fairly easy, no surprises with the nuts, bolts or hidden damage.

Next off is the carb and the reeds, however when I emptied the tank, a "pigtailed" red piece of plastic came out when I turned the tank upside down. Anyone have any idea what this is/was? Is it important? Strange, very strange. I'll try to download some pictures.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Having issues attaching pictures, I have a MAC. If anyone can aid to the cause, PM me.

Anyway, the cylinder is smooth, no dings, scratches or anything. I was thinking, should the cylinder be done 10 over or is it safe to put a new Piston and Rings in it when the cylinder has been seated to the old hardware? If I'm not mistaken, the majority here is using the stock cylinder as is, no machining or anything. Let me know if this is incorrect, Thanks Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Ok, I got the cylinder off without damaging the KIPS Shaft. A HUGE thanks to Mr. Bryan Kimsey's Top End Pictorial article that he was gracious enough to post. A couple of things I want to ask concerning the KIPS gears themselves. I did all this with out the Shop Manual, I know some one is out there cringing right now. And going "What a freaking idiot!!" The Manual is three weeks out, she will not get put back together without it them, need correct Torquing numbers.

1) The gears themselves are incredibly clean when I mean clean I mean no oil ,splooge or anything. I can still see the "White markings" that were done at the factory. That is for both gears. I'm going to assume no splooge is a good thing? Should there be some kind of lubricating going on?

2) On the gear holder there is a "Dot" and it was lined up on the outer gear that was lined with white paint. I'm assuming it needs to go back on the mark? I know, I know I had to ask.

3) The cylinder, to me looks like it is in very good shape, however I do see some "lines" near the bottom, towards the exhaust, if you rub your finger on them, you cannot feel them. Anything to be concerned about?

Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Pulled the KIPS valve cover off, looking for mass quantities of soupage. No soupage or splooge just a real light coating of black oil. It reminds me of the soupage coming out of the exhaust when I first brought it home. I wiped it with some q-tips as best as I dared. Looks brand new to me.

Question about the Piston that is in there now. How can you tell if it is the stock piston? Will it have a different color, some type of markings?, anything? Dennis


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

If it was wiseco or other aftermarket it would have a part number on top. If it was oversized OEM it should also have a stamp on top. sounds like it's probably standard.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

you can check the side of the piston where the pin is and see if it says ART

and you can clean the carbon from the top and find your numbers wiseco has about 6 or 7 nubers that look like they where put on with a dot matrix type of printer


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

sorry if it says art on the side it is either a stock piston or pro-x piston

a forged piston (wiseco ) will be smooth on the iside where a cast (stock or pro-x) will have a texture.

not that you have anything to campare against but wiseco normally has thinner rings


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

I'm assuming a pro x-piston is just as bad as the stock piston?


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Pro-x is exactly the same as stock.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

didn't think of explaning that


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

so does it say art on the side or not?


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Just went out and scraped some of the carbon off. The top and the sides of the piston have very fine milling on it ,the top is in a circular motion as well as the sides. The sides are silver in color, the top is gray. There is a arrow on the top of the piston as well as the letter "B" on the back portion of the piston. Stock piston?, does this mean anything? I'm gonna guess the "B" is for the back of the piston and the arrow is for the front. There are NO markings regarding "ART" on either sides near the clips. Each ring appears to be "split" but intact. I have looked on the sight regarding OEM stock piston markings, but nothing hits. Looking to get that piston ordered and get her back together. Don't mean to be a pain in the arss, but I'm pretty motivated at this point to continue tearing her down and get her right.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Probalby a pro-x piston. They are available in standard A, B, C, D. These are very slight oversizes to compensate for manufacturing differences or cylinder wear. OEM pistons may have an A or B designation as well.

A wiseco would definitely NOT have a B stamped in the top.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

lets just say for kicks and giggles, this is a OEM or pro-x piston.
I might consider doing the following:

The cylinder SHOULD be resurfaced to accommodate the Weisco that I intend on getting. The smart thing to do is order the Piston and have it in hand, take it to a machine shop or send it to Fredette racing and have it "Honed" to get a clean fit.
Does this make sense or is this over kill?


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

Talking to Eric Gorr, if you are going to do cylinder work, the 225 kit is probably the way to go. The factory cylinder has some kind of vapor deposited tungsten coating or something, which can interfere with new coatings. So boring it out gives you clean fresh aluminum for the Nikisil.

So I'd either go big bore, or stick with stock until you start to see cylinder damage. I'm not sure if modern coated cylinders still need a hone or not, I'll let others weigh in.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

There's no need to hone your plated cylinder. If the plating is worn, it needs to be stripped and re-plated. As long as the plating looks good, clean it really good with a green scotchbrite pad, install a wiseco piston, and go ride!


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Here are some pics of what was described in the earlier posts.

KIPS Valve

KIPS Valve gears


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

well that didnt work, I'll try again.

julien_d: The cylinder is in good shape, as stated before no scratches, dings,dents etc, just a few lines, that ARE NOT able to be felt by my finger. Cleaning it with the Scotchbrite pad, use it dry or with some type of liquid? I'm assuming, light scrubbing in a up and down motion? By looking at it it appears to be pretty clean. If you want to see pictures of the KIPS, piston and cylinder e-mail me and I'll send them to you. The MAC won't allow me to download to the site. Dennis


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

With the scotchbrite pad, use some lubrication. Two stroke oil or wd-40 is fine. Try to go around the cylinder, not just up and down it. You're really not going to do much besides clean off some aluminum deposits and oil glaze. Scrub it like you mean it . When you are done, wash it until you are certain it's completely clean, and then wash it again.

If you want to post pics, you can sign up at photobucket.com for free and upload them there. Pics are always helpful!


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

yeah I forgot try to srub those areas you described to me on the phone it may be built up aluminum from the piston and not wear on the cylinder but stil get it measured like we talked about


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

JC:
I WAS TRYING TO LINE UP A RIDE AT LAND BETWEEN THE LAKES..KY>opps or possibly cole creek you, dennis, me and any othert kdxer for the week of june 1st through 6th watcha think?


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

I can bring some jet skis to if my friend is going and can trailer the bikes/wheelers


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Sounds like a good time. Might be tough for me to make KY, but I've been trying to plan a coal creek trip, those dates should work. Looks like H&M with the kdxrider group 5/12 - 5-16.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder: Thanks for the info last night on the phone, I'm gonna take that cylinder to a motorhead today, and hopefully it's just slight wear. Like you said last night, It is hard to see it through pictures. Either rides sound like a blast. I'll confirm some dates later.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Alright, I just got back from the machine shop and this is what I was told. Allen at the local motor head shop said the cylinder is perfect, no egging going on. The Bore size is 2.720, just like the owners manual says. Next step, start brillo padding. Allen told me to go in a "X" direction to help the rings seat better.

Last night I was on the phone with sr5bidder and told him about some "Graying". That graying is were the Piston never touches, so that is normal, were the skirt is at.
Now to find a Decent price on a Weisco piston and ring set. any Ideas?????? Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Ok, found a local privateer that works on ATV's and such, I can get the whole Weisco set for around $200.00. The piston set for $150.00. I'm gonna go order that tomorrow. Probably some other goodies as well. Boyssen 607's, jet's and look at a Gnarly Rev Pipe.
Things appear to be coming together. I have the seat and lowering links coming from sr5bidder, so I'll be set in a few days. Dennis


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

If you are interested in a used FMF Gnarly Woods pipe, let me know...but if you are going all out, you may want a new pipe. I may buy a rev pipe for my 220. You can find Wiseco piston kits with gaskets for under $200 on Ebay. Just check for positive feedback.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

jb_dallas: Thanks for the offer, but right now I'm interested in the rev pipe, based on what I have been reading. I have never bought anything on flea bay, plus I'm gonna give this local guy some business. From what I have heard about him, he is top notch. The guy resides about 20 miles form me, right outside of Henderson NC.

Any KDX riders near Raleigh NC that have found a good jet setting??


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Sounds like it's coming together well.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
jb_dallas: Thanks for the offer, but right now I'm interested in the rev pipe, based on what I have been reading. I have never bought anything on flea bay, plus I'm gonna give this local guy some business. From what I have heard about him, he is top notch. The guy resides about 20 miles form me, right outside of Henderson NC.

Any KDX riders near Raleigh NC that have found a good jet setting??



did he go 15% off the part unlimited catalog for you?

don't forget about the new filter too

your links/seat is on the way


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Now if I can just get that freakin shop manual to show up, I can take care of business and ride this weekend.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder: I'm not sure if he goes thru the Parts Unlimited Warehouse, but I'll find out tomorrow. I'm gonna give dude a chance and see where he stands on those other items. I have a Uni-Filter and three plugs on the way, they should arrive Wednesday.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Received the shop manual and supplement today, YEA!! I got the seat, lowering links from sr5bidder today, YEA!!!. Got the Uni-Filter and plugs today YEA!!!!.

According to several distributors, the Piston for the 220 is currently out of stock. I went to the Wiseco web site and they are "In stock", hhmm. The local guy I went to can get the the entire KIT for $200.00, but "out of stock". The Boyesson 607 he can get for $30.00. Unfortunately he cannot get any FMF products. He can get the Pro Circuit, but I have not done any research on their products. I can get the Desert Gnarly pipe from Bike Bandit for $184.00 and the Power Core II silencer for $96.00.

Once I get the Piston in place, should I hold off on getting the jets right until after the break in period? To me that makes sense, but what do I know.

sr5bidder: The seat doesn't look that bad, but the padding is as you described. Thanks!


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

Having played with both, I think the pro-circuit pipes are probably a little better performing, the FMF pipes are a little better made. Either would be a good choice.


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

Oh, and do some research before choosing torque or rev pipe on the 220... a 200 torque pipe is a rev pipe on the 220, and a rev pipe on the 220 is... a mess. Or maybe it's the other way around..... I sorted it all out once and put it here in the archives somewhere.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

reepicheep:

The Desert Rev pipe, according to the info I have read, is the one that will give "all around performance, but taking just a small amount from the low end" on the 220. The Woods pipe will aid to the cause of low end and mid, but falls flat like the stock pipe does. I have read that on the KDX Hop-up Guide in the paragraph that begins "Its important to note that because of differences in port timing", about half way down. I have read that article too many times and I have probably confused myself. I think I have it correct though.

I called Bike Bandit and they have "plenty" of Weisco piston kits in stock. I may have to get back with the local guy and give him another shot.

I believe I have the wrong supplement, it does not show the 2001, it begins with 2002. Please tell me it makes no difference and it will work? Dennis


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by reepicheep
Oh, and do some research before choosing torque or rev pipe on the 220... a 200 torque pipe is a rev pipe on the 220, and a rev pipe on the 220 is... a mess. Or maybe it's the other way around..... I sorted it all out once and put it here in the archives somewhere.


You are backwards. The only FMF pipe you want for the 220 is the REV. It is basically a torque pipe on the 220. The Torque pipe on the 220 just puts everything TOO much in the torque area, and makes the power delivery very flat.

No difference from 2001 to 2002, you will be fine. Were you asking that in regards to the pipe, or to the piston kit? Either way, both are the same for both years.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

julien_:

That was in reference to the Manual supplement.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
julien_:

That was in reference to the Manual supplement.


Manual supplement for what???


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

The shop manual itself covers the 200, the supplement covers the 220r. The supplement that I have covers the years 02,03. Make sense now? Is there really a difference between the 01 and 02 220r? Hopefully that clears up some confusion.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

lol, gotcha. Perfectly clear. As far as I know there are no differences. At least not mechanically speaking.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

I checked back with the local guy and it appears he may be dragging his feet on some parts and accessories. So tomorrow morning Bike Bandit will be getting a call for the Wiesco goodies, Pipe, Silencer and perhaps the gasket kit. The Boyesson 607 will be coming from the local dude, I'll get with him tomorrow.

I'm going to assume it would be wise to make sure I have a new "Donut" for the pipe?

Anyone out there using the Go Pro Helmet Cam???? Those are f***ing cool!!!!!!!!!


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

I have an md80 I play with. Not bad for a $12 helmet cam, lol. A go pro would certainly be nice!

I like Bike Bandit, but their shipping is pretty slow. I like Service Honda the most!


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

In my experience, I have been pretty pleased with Bike Bandit. The only time I have had issues with them is when "Brandon" told me that Michelin stopped making the Pilot Road 2 last year, dude was being a real douche. I called Michelin to confirm his story and he was completely wrong. I called BB back and spoke with "Melissa", customer service manager and she researched to double check that they were being produced and where she could get them from. I had a set of tires at the house four days later. I have been dealing with them for about five years now, I'm pleased.

Service Honda you say, guys on the CRF's only web site talks about them pretty highly as well.

The GO Pro, trying to talk the wife into getting me one for my Birthday. Convinced her that she can use it on her cruise next year. HA!!

julien_d :

Check the previous posts concerning the jetting question after the new piston installation, need some guidance, could not find any previous threads on the subject.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

I have the gopro and it does its job, the widw angle kinda distorts stuff like hills and the sound is very muffled always


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

i would really wait on jetting till you are up and running. you could go ahead and clean the carb and write down what is presently in there for jets, clip pos. and such


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder: Not sure if you seen my earlier post, I got the seat and links, THANKS!!.
I have been researching the go pro for a minute, looking to get one........maybe.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

By running you mean, after break in of the new piston? Of course the motor is apart at the moment. I'm gonna get on the carb this morning, after I contact Bike Bandit. I have to get a new phillips just for the carb, the ones I have are 20 years old and a little beat up. Thanks again for the info!!


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
By running you mean, after break in of the new piston? Of course the motor is apart at the moment. I'm gonna get on the carb this morning, after I contact Bike Bandit. I have to get a new phillips just for the carb, the ones I have are 20 years old and a little beat up. Thanks again for the info!!



most every tool I have I got back in 1985

I could take my screwdrivers in and get new ones but that would involve the mall.

I hope the links/ seat work for you

I will spend the rainy day putting new rear brake shoes on the xt350 and grabbing some 800 grit wet dry paper and doing the next step on my warrior plastics then maybe mop-n-glow them


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

If you feel it was jetted pretty well before, I would use that during break in. I'm not familiar with the stock jetting on the 220, but I would hope you are somewhere near that right now. You will need to jet the bike thoroughly after break in is complete.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

I know my bike, after a new piston seemed to smoke ALOT and it took a few rides to Break it in.. I'm still on the same plug from the rebuild, I could have used the original plug but I splurged.

Man crap is getting pricey... I just blew $51 on gas, $5 on smokes and $6.25 for 600 grit wet/dry paper!!!!

time to push the bikes and wheeler out of the garage and get to work!


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

julien_d: Thanks for the insight, that's what I was thinking, but it's nice to have an opinion that confirms my thinking. It is a little jumpy in the lower RPM;s so I'm gonna say that is due to the air screw not adjusted properly as well as the Needle jet still at the factory specs. When I get her back together, I'll leave every thing as is. Get a good break in session on her then do as you suggested.

Should I put all the goodies on when I put the Weisco on or wait till after break in????????

I pulled the carb apart, not totally apart. 145 Main, 42 slow/pilot jet, Needle jet is on the third slot from the top. Cleaned slide guide inside the carb and the slide itself. Lots of junk on the inside of the slide, where the throttle cable attaches. The bowl looked surprising clean, I put a little carb cleaner in it and swished it around for a few minutes. Dumped it out wiped it clean. The jets, I sprayed some carb cleaner in them and some outer junk came right off. The slow jet appeared to be slightly clogged so I grabbed one of the the wife's gestational diabetic needles, it was just long enough to take care of whatever was in the way. Used a air compressor to take care of any dingle berries hanging around. The float looked good, no cracks. The little spring thing looked good as well, forgot the name of it. I think if I really get to messing with it, I may mess with the float height........don't want to do that just yet.

I ordered the Weisco piston kit, FMF Desert pipe, Power Core II, cylinder gasket kit and the Boyesons, should be here next Friday, but we will see.

I pulled the rear Wheel wheel off to get to the bearings, but unfortunately I don't have a bearing puller. So I ran my thumb inside the hub to feel the movement of the bearing. No grinding, scrapping nice and smooth so I stuffed some grease inside the plastic boot. I'll search the thread and see if anyone has a different way to get them out. Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder:

Looking for an opinion from you concerning the above post. I sure do appreciate you and julien_d aiding to the cause!!!!!! Dennis


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

well one thing that pop out is the bearing puller...nope you just use a drift punch and a hammer but DON'T it sounds as if your rear wheel bearing are fine... in the future with wheel on bike and off the ground grab the tire and pull side to side any play would mean bearing time.

The carb cleaning process seems good to me ...you must have pulled the jets to find the numbers.... and they sound really familiar I do believe thats what is in mine...or maybee its a 148/ 42-- 2nd from top..???? too many bikes ma

if it were my bike I would put everything Back on original run it for 1-2 rides then put reeds in and run it up and down the field then add the pipe then start jetting to taste

read the little packet that comes with the reeds.. good stuff.. then look for an fmf recomendation from what I have red you should be pretty close right now


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Bill is probably right, add the add on's after breakin. I wouldn't though. Pipe and everything is off, I'd go ahead and put the new stuff on. Maybe me just being lazy and not wanting to tear it down twice, but I can't see the hurt in putting everything you've got on it, breaking it in, and then jetting it. You're current jetting looks perfectly safe for break in. What mix you plan on running?

With that mess on the slide, I'd pull the filter and carb out and make sure the airbox and boot is cleaned spotless. Clean the filter and re-install or replace with a new one. That junk got in there somewhere, and the airboot is the most likely source. I wouldn't want to risk trashing a new top end.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

julien_d and sr5bidder:

Today I pulled the rear wheel off of course and checked the bearings, pack them with green grease. I then pulled the swing arm off. The bearings that attach to the motor appeared to be in good shape, you can tell they were worn some, but were still in tact, meaning the were not shifting from side to side and had some good tread left on them, still fairly stiff, but not loose. The lower bearing, that connects to the lowering link was in great shape, used but not worn and still had that new "stiff" but movable feeling to it. Cleaned them up with a toothbrush, pulled a clean rag thru them and grease them with green grease.

If I was thinking I would of pulled the chain off while I had the swing arm off but spaced off badly. So I decided to go ahead and pull the master link off and clean the chain. The chain was not taken care of at all. Who ever thought of throwing lube on top of lube on top of lube and thought this was lubing must of been smoking purple cush for the past 10 years!!. So I decided to take the master link off.......yea right. Of all the things I have done in the past two weeks, this was a major pain. I got the keeper off but could not get the link off to save my life. So I decided to put the keeper back on............nope would not go on. Needless to say I tweaked the keeper and in need of another one.

Yep I pulled the jets out and found the numbers. As far as the airbox goes, I took it off the bike two weeks ago, cleaned it with hot soapy water and a scratch pad. Clean as a whistle now. When I bought the bike, it had a K&N filter on it, that filter now hangs on one of the walls. The Uni-Filter has taken it's place.

As far as mix, Yamalube 2 r, 32:1, like the manual says. During break in what should the ratio mix be? I heard that Maxim has good premix, but the Yamalube is just as good. Bel-Ray was the stuff in the day, but I have been reading that some riders have had gumming issues, gotta love the smell of Bel-Ray!


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Yamalube 32:1 should be just fine. No change for break in.

Good deal on the airbox.

That K&N is probably the cause of the muck buildup on the carb slide. Good call removing it.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

It was suggested in a earlier post on this thread to trash the K&N and get a notoil (sp) filter or a Uni-Filter. I have a Uni in the Honda and it's doing its job.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

I have been running Lucas semi synthetic in all my 2 strokes foe awhile now and am really happy, 40:1


Posted by: glad2ride---------------------

32:1 is fine, and great job on dumping the K&N.


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

I think stock on the 220 is 42 pilot, 145 main, and the clip in the middle position. Kawasaki recommends 32:1. I run a 42 pilot, 148 main, and just moved the needle to the 4th position from the top to richen up the mid range. I run Motul at 32:1..although I am experimenting tweaking the mixture slightly, 34:1 for example, and the effect on performance. Ive only ridden down the alley a few times, but it seems to pull harder with the drop in clip position. Of course, your setup depends on elevation, mods, etc.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
julien_d and sr5bidder:

If I was thinking I would of pulled the chain off while I had the swing arm off but spaced off badly. So I decided to go ahead and pull the master link off and clean the chain. The chain was not taken care of at all. Who ever thought of throwing lube on top of lube on top of lube and thought this was lubing must of been smoking purple cush for the past 10 years!!. So I decided to take the master link off.......yea right. Of all the things I have done in the past two weeks, this was a major pain. I got the keeper off but could not get the link off to save my life. So I decided to put the keeper back on............nope would not go on. Needless to say I tweaked the keeper and in need of another one.

!



the chain is an o-ring chain if it is stock, usually a grundge buster chain cleaning tool will get the crud down to a point where you can add the lude to the chain and not the crud.

beings that is an oring chain, it take a little work to get the side plate off after removing the clip.. I use two flat head screwdrivers on each side of the plate and work it off in a striaght manor (meaning that one side of the plate gets no further ahead of the other side) as to not bind it on the pins.

I use the next plate beside the one I am trying to remove as leverage and found it best to have the link positioned on the rear sprocket for added stability.

I had a can of belray chain lube $14.99 and when it ran out I bought a can of Champion chain lube for $5 and it seems to do its job..

after all it only has to last about a month on the stand and 4-6hrs of riding then it gets refreshed after 4-6hrs of cleaning the next day (2 bikes)


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

ohh I almost forgot when reinstalling the side plate I have a small c-clamp with a good sized divit in the spinny cup thingy and I position that divit on top off where the pin is and clamp down alternating sides till there is clearance for the clip to go on


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

If the chain was not taken care of at all, I would recommend replacing the chain and sprockets...you can get a nice combo kit on Rocky Mountain ATV for around $100. Thats a drop in the bucket compared to the amount you are spending...why skimp on a chain?


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

jb_dallas: That's a good point!

Maybe I should explain what I meant by " not taken care". The rollers on the chain are in good shape, the chain itself will "kink" and remain in that position as long as it is left there. I was hoping to get the chain off and soak it in kerosene for about thirty minutes then go to town on her. Clean thoroughly, wash in soapy warm water and give her the oil treatment.

I can get another riding season out the chain and sprockets, but the kinking has me concerned. I'm gonna look at the RM ATV site and see whats going on.

sr5bidder: I have doused that keeper and link with PB Blaster but the link is a bear. I'll give the link another run for its money tomorrow. Thanks for the info, I'll follow your method and see what happens.

sr5bidder:

What does this mean? "ohh I almost forgot when reinstalling the side plate I have a small c-clamp with a good sized divit in the spinny cup thingy and I position that divit on top off where the pin is and clamp down alternating sides till there is clearance for the clip to go on"
Reply With Quote


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

jb_dallas: That's a good point!

Maybe I should explain what I meant by " not taken care". The rollers on the chain are in good shape, the chain itself will "kink" and remain in that position as long as it is left there. I was hoping to get the chain off and soak it in kerosene for about thirty minutes then go to town on her. Clean thoroughly, wash in soapy warm water and give her the oil treatment.

I can get another riding season out the chain and sprockets, but the kinking has me concerned. I'm gonna look at the RM ATV site and see whats going on.

sr5bidder: I have doused that keeper and link with PB Blaster but the link is a bear. I'll give the link another run for its money tomorrow. Thanks for the info, I'll follow your method and see what happens.

sr5bidder:

What does this mean? "ohh I almost forgot when reinstalling the side plate I have a small c-clamp with a good sized divit in the spinny cup thingy and I position that divit on top off where the pin is and clamp down alternating sides till there is clearance for the clip to go on"


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

don't know what happened with the double post..........WTF!!!!


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

The sproket/chain combos for your bike are $60 to $110...depending on what you buy. I think its money well spent... I would certainly pay a few bucks more (around $80) for a decent O ring chain combo. I bought a set for my WR and have no complaints.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Just got done looking at the Kits, The one I looked at was $75.00. I'm not a racer but from the reviews it holds up well for a weekend warrior like myself. "O" ring chain/ Steel sprocket set up, is what I looked at.

The Pipe, Silencer and Weisco shipped out Yesterday, the reeds will be here Friday


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

best deal ever is the primary drive steel spockets, but be aware that your chain may be still good... look in the manual and measure the way it says, I would not soak into kerosene just yet, but get a BRUSH AND WORK ALL THE GUNK OFF (opps) first and then soak in your bucket of used motor oil and drip dry then run it a bit and see if its shot.
another good method I came up with is, with the chain off try to bend it against itself in an arch and if you can get anywhere close to a half circle replace it, it should look like the horizon as if you where on a ship in the ocean (i'm talking side flex here)


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder:

I believe that the chain is salvageable and the sprockets are in good shape. Your advice sounds good. I'm gonna get that link off and take care of the chain. The money I would of spent on the sprocket kit I'll use for a more reliable torque wrench.

I got home from work today and some goodies arrived. The Weisco kit, the Gnarly Desert Pipe and the Power Core II. I have to tell you that pipe is a thing of beauty, but for how long? Cant wait to get that thing muddied up, the Power Core II is extremely light, lighter than I thought it would be. This is going to make a world of difference in performance.

Oh ya, the Weisco Kit, I'm gonna double check the part number and make sure what I got is what I ordered. It appears that all things are coming together, plus I have a three day weekend coming up. Now I have to take my time and get things on correctly.

I'm going to add all the goodies on at once, it will probably be a pain in the arss to get her jetted correctly, but patience will prevail, now waiting for the reeds to arrive. Early Birthday presents are a great thing!! Now if the wife gets the Go Pro Helmet Hero, then it will truly be unbelievable.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

wow I have never had the cash to buy a new pipe I can only imagine how that looks, I was lucky that my kdx had the right pipe on it when I bought it.


I have to admit I could have bought a new pipe once a month a few years back but instead I would just go out and find a basket case to fix up every other month instead


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

I had put some cash aside several months ago and was waiting for another toy to purchase, (KDX and these goodies) I'm truly blessed to have a steady job that cannot be out sourced, overtime is abundant if you want it. The younger generation that has been hired in the last 5-6 years, don't want to show up for work, so us older heads take their slots.

Honestly, all the parts I got, Reeds, Pipe, Silencer, Weisco, Gasket set and to include the stuff from sr5bidder was a little over $500. I thought I came out ahead, bike included amounts to $1700. So far I have done ok, now it's time to put it all together and go riding!!

First things first, clean the cylinder. Next, get that damn chain clean, get a new keeper or better yet, get the Torque wrench first than start on the cylinder, chain and keeper. Either way it needs to be organized and not get into a hurry with it.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

nothing really to worry about...check the ring gap and put the rings on (my nerves get racked doing this still today) put the piston on the rod with NEW CIR-CLIPS, lube cylinder with 2t oil, squeez rings in and side cylinder on easy cheezy.

I would just borrow a torque wrench from auto zone or advanced.. pay for it/use it / return it ..that is how the tool loan program works here


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder: That's right, those two stores do have that program here as well, I forgot all about that. Check the ring gap? I'll have to look that one up in the manual. It's supposed to be beautiful here this weekend, hopefully I can work on it Friday afternoon and make some serious headway. We are starting to get hit with those storms that went thru your area yesterday. Some are supposed to be nasty.


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

Personally, I would invest in a new chain. I know someone who took a chunk out of thier cases by not maintaining/replacing the chain...but, its your money.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

all I can say about that is clean and inspect that chain if its beyond the manual specs then you know what to do. otherwize ride on!! if it kinks up in place it may be a a chain with very little use, with tight o-rings that just needs a good clening and lube


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Nothing wrong with a little extra cleaning, I have been doing that for several weeks now and I'm not about to stop. I want her right when I crank her up and blast down the road.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Going to pick up the reeds and master link this morning. This is the local guy that I mentioned earlier in the thread. I'll get his opinion for kicks and giggles concerning the chain. Tomorrow I'll start cleaning the cylinder then move forward from there.

I believe julien_d suggested soap and water. Should I avoid getting the KIPS valve wet? If so, how do I go about protecting it? I had to ask.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

well actually you should have the cylinder completely disassembled , take picture write down and lay out the parts (not too complex)


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Take apart the KIPS? I just had to ask, back to reading again. F&&K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

hey I thought you where going to get her buttoned up on friday??.

I might be headed to moto mountain here in a few if my buddy wasn't drunk talking last night!


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Friday did not work out, yesterday was my b-day so I was relaxing, hung out with the family. I'm getting ready to go outside and get things going. I have everything now, reeds and the new master link & keeper. Gonna eat some leftovers, get my I-Pod fully charged and hit it with both feet on the ground!!!!! I'll update from time to time to let you know how it's going.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Getting motivated to some Tool and Perfect Circle "Judith" Imagine that, a 48 year old head banging to some Tool, A Perfect Circle, Rise Against, Black Label Society and of course Mr. George Carlin!!!! Time to go!!!!!


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

just got ready for bed and scubbed off all the crud from moto mountain....I had a really decent ride today though I started out with a slid'n highside that threw me on my back... we will see how bad tomorrow how bad it was!! May be getting rid of the 03 kx, the kdx did everything I asked it to toaday
I hope you got past the nerves and got her done today


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Holy Sh** Dave, listen to this, it sounds mad!!

Got her back together, no left over bolts, nuts or washers!

She started on the second kick first time. Second time, one small back fire,(if it was even that), then second kick. I have started her twice let her run for oh about 10 minutes each time. The first time just idle, slight throttle. Second time Idle, little more throttle, maybe 1/8 of the way. Everything is holding together, no leaks, no clunking sounds, hoping to get her out tomorrow down the road for a quick blast.

That FMF Pipe has an unreal sound to it, it sounds like someone beating on the inside of a steel trash can with a drum stick, it resonates from the expansion chamber and the sound, holy s**t, I can't explain it. Those who have this Gnarly Desert pipe know what I'm talking about, its f**king pissed. I want to take her down the street, but I know my neighbors and family will not appreciate it.

Has anyone had a piston c-clip decide to take flight? I did today, could not believe it, but I got EXTREMELY lucky and heard a "Ping" behind me, found it in about five minutes, got very lucky. I thought I was screwed. I have to get the new master link on tomorrow before I take flight, have to remember that.

Here are the items that were put on today:

Weisco Piston and Rings
Cometic Top end Gasket kit
Boyeson Power Reeds, 607
Uni-Filter, Dual stage filter
FMF Gnarly Desert Pipe
Power Core II Silencer
OEM Brass Muffler Donut
sr5bidders low boy seat, (no lowering links yet)

I think that is it, I was very anal about making sure things were on properly, that's why it took over 12 hrs!!. I hope I did not over think some things and over do anything, only time will tell I guess. The torque wrench is a funny thing, I really don't trust it. That's something I'll have to get used to..........maybe.

It's time to make room for the FZ1 and get her back in the garage. Any particulars I should look out for during break in? I'm going to assume, if she was gonna give me any issues, she would of done it during those initial start ups............right?? Paranoia is setting in, hopefully everything is good to go. Dennis


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

With the forged piston, you always want to make sure it is completely warmed up before you beat on it. During break in, you want low RPM high load. Run it a gear high and keep a load on the engine. This will help the rings to seat properly. After that it's warm up and ride.

Congrats on the successful surgery!!


Posted by: reepicheep---------------------

I don't think I have ever assembled a piston and NOT had at least one C-Clip take flight. My kids and neighbor kids are well accustomed to a $1 bounty to the finder whenever I launch one.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

reepicheep: ROFLMFAO! Thank god I had one ear open, no music going or I would of never found it.

julien_d: Gotcha, low RPM, keep a load on her. How many times should I do this for? Once, twice, 1 hour or 2,. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty anal about things!! I'll try and load some pics using photo bucket, hopefully sometime today. Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Anyone have a old stock filter cage hanging around? I'm in need of one, PM if you want to get rid of it. Dennis


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Not for long. I just like to avoid high RPM for the first half hour or so. After that you should be fine to wring it out all you want. This is not to say "baby it". You want the engine under a pretty good load to get those rings seated.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

julied_d: Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying. Keeping the engine under a "load". What that means to me is, not high RPM's, but in the taller gears about qrt to 1/2 throttle. Is this correct?

I attempted again to install the keeper on the master link and.......................... snapped another one!!!!!!!!WTF!!. I have to take the bike to the local guy and have him install the fu**ing keeper. After all the work I have done, it's a freaking Keeper to a master link that is stopping me from breaking her in.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

the thing about the cir-clip freaked me out I thought you meant after assembly during break in!!!

I never had one fly on me I have a little secret for that


the trick with the link clip is put it on from the face so that it is 2/3 the way on all ready then use a pair of pliers on the back side of the clip and the shoulder of the chain plate and squeeze.

you may or may not have the correct link/ clip they are a real bitch to match up and should not be inner mixed between manufactures, I don't know what chain came stock on the 220's.

if it really came down to it I would have a friend hold a big hammer behind the master link pins and make sure the plate is in the right position on the other side and wack the pins as to mushroom the pins over...just as if it where another link in the chain.


this would get me riding (break in ) NOW and give me some time to get the propper master link and make certain I had a few cut off wheels for the dremel tool to get that mess back apart


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

I'll hold off on mushrooming links. I do like the trick with the keeper though, I actually thought about doing that for a brief second, not in that much detail, but something similar, but I thought I could get it on this time......wrongo!!

Its a ENUMA EK520SR-02 chain, maybe that's why I'm having a issue getting that freaking thing on, I have gotten a DID master link, they may be from the same manufacture. I'll research and find out what the difference between the two. So there she sits waiting for a final drive to be installed, this blows big time!! Patience, Patience, Patience..................AAAARRRGGGGGHHHHHH, I'm gonna have a melt down if this does not get rectified.

Hey, I could go take some pictures of her anyway and download em.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

From what I can tell, DID and EK are completely different chain makers, is there really that much difference between chains and their Master Links?? Maybe that's why I can't get it to fit, It's frustrating as the devil.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

there could be differences in the width of the chainand the side plates on the o-ring type chains are in my experence a press on affair, I usually press the side plate on using the c-clamp method till the grooves in the pins are fully visible and then put the clip on and then backthe side plate out against the clip if there is a gap using a screw driver..I would actually prefer using the mushroom technique as opossed to using a link from another brand/ type chain... BTW you are using o-rings on the master link too right??


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

O-Rings were in place, all four. I could "Feel" the gap with my finger nail. I agree with using the mushroom technique, but I do not want to have to take off the swing arm again to keep the chain as a whole to do the mushrooming technique. If you are mushrooming the link on the bike, what are you using to withstand the pounding the hammer will inflict?, confused.

I have another concern and I hope it is nothing. When refilling the radiator, is it common for the fluid level to drop several times after running for several minutes? It's not only happening in the Rad but in the resovour (sp). Please tell me I'm becoming paranoid and this is usual. The oil looks good thru the window, no musroom soup. I took the plug out this morning and it was "Wet", smelled like gas, but it was . I hope I have not f**ked this up in any way. All the cylinder and head bolts are torqued to spec. I hope I'm just paranoid, Give me some warning signs and early detection ideas to look at.......I have a bad feeling about this............................


Posted by: bikerman---------------------

Check the mixture and oil he used in it before rejetting. its 32/1 i bet . i switched to motorex at 50/1 . cleaned it rite up and not lean .


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

^^^^^
Changing oil mixture is no replacement for jetting, and should not be used as such. If you want to run 50:1, that's fine. As long as your jetting is good you should not have a problem. However, I gaurantee that you could have jetted your bike to the 32:1 mixture and it would have run even better. More oil in a two stroke will produce a better ring seal, more compression, and more power, BUT it must be jetted correctly for the mix.

Den,

Yes, what you saw was normal. Especially if you did not use the bleed screws on the head an the LH radiator when filling.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
O-Rings were in place, all four. I could "Feel" the gap with my finger nail. I agree with using the mushroom technique, but I do not want to have to take off the swing arm again to keep the chain as a whole to do the mushrooming technique. If you are mushrooming the link on the bike, what are you using to withstand the pounding the hammer will inflict?, confused.

I have another concern and I hope it is nothing. When refilling the radiator, is it common for the fluid level to drop several times after running for several minutes? It's not only happening in the Rad but in the resovour (sp). Please tell me I'm becoming paranoid and this is usual. The oil looks good thru the window, no musroom soup. I took the plug out this morning and it was "Wet", smelled like gas, but it was . I hope I have not f**ked this up in any way. All the cylinder and head bolts are torqued to spec. I hope I'm just paranoid, Give me some warning signs and early detection ideas to look at.......I have a bad feeling about this............................


well buddy I thought I explained it but, have a buddy hold the 5lb hammer behind the link and pound the crap out of the front of the pin to sort of swedge the side plate on??????
no clip required


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by julien_d
^^^^^
Changing oil mixture is no replacement for jetting, and should not be used as such. If you want to run 50:1, that's fine. As long as your jetting is good you should not have a problem. However, I gaurantee that you could have jetted your bike to the 32:1 mixture and it would have run even better. More oil in a two stroke will produce a better ring seal, more compression, and more power, BUT it must be jetted correctly for the mix.

Den,

Yes, what you saw was normal. Especially if you did not use the bleed screws on the head an the LH radiator when filling.


BTW allthough I can explain how to fix anything on the kdx, I howeer can not tell you how to not get it to stop from throwing you on your a$$ i really don't understand it myself????


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder: ROFLMFAO!!! Now that's funny!!

julien_d: I used the bleeder, but no fluid came out, which means I probably don't have enough in it at this time and air is probably still in there. Thanks again, Dennis


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr5bidder
BTW allthough I can explain how to fix anything on the kdx, I howeer can not tell you how to not get it to stop from throwing you on your a$$ i really don't understand it myself????


LOL... learn to ride????


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

Personally, I would never run a bike at 50:1...it sort of bothers me that my weedeater is jetted for 50:1.

denbsteph

I see you are having issues with your chain. To me, a chain is a regular maintenance item, sort of like tires, but a busted tire cant knock a hole in your cases. Just buy a new one and be done.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_dallas
Personally, I would never run a bike at 50:1...it sort of bothers me that my weedeater is jetted for 50:1.

denbsteph

I see you are having issues with your chain. To me, a chain is a regular maintenance item, sort of like tires, but a busted tire cant knock a hole in your cases. Just buy a new one and be done.


You say this sight unseen? I would be cleaning and inspecting before replacing, which is what it sounds like he's doing.

I agree 100% on the oil mix. I wouldn't do it either.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by julien_d
LOL... learn to ride????



been trying for a few years now,... this last one was a new way kind of interesting...going straight, little mud, let off throttle through mud, hit throttle after mud, rear end came around left, let off throttle, d803 hooked up and high sided me over the bike onto my back at 15-20 mph

always looking for new ways to get off the KDX


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_dallas

denbsteph

I see you are having issues with your chain. To me, a chain is a regular maintenance item, sort of like tires, but a busted tire cant knock a hole in your cases. Just buy a new one and be done.



I think at this piont he has cleaned/ inspected the chain and everything is good except getting the correct master link, from previous post, dude has money, so if the chain was bad he would have just bought one........ I assume.

also a "regular maintained chain" far outlasts tires unless its a $25 RK chain from cycle gear


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder and julien_d:

You are correct I removed the chain after another failed attempt to put on the keeper. I cleaned the chain the other day with brake cleaner. I let it rest for several minutes, scrub with a stiff bristled brush. Washed off with warm soapy water, then cleaned it with Simple Green. Washed it off with some warm clean water, let air dry for about an hour in the sun. Hung the chain up, oiled her up let her hang for about 15 minutes then wiped off the excess.

The rollers were in good shape, not much free movement, no cracks in the links. Earlier I was questioning the "Kinking" of the chain, after cleaning it, the "Kinking" loosened up some and became more fluid. The chain had some gunk on it, not near as much as I was previously thinking. The Chain is a keeper, no need to get another one at this point. Now if I can just get that f**king keeper on tomorrow I'll be in business.

I'm going to say, don't crank the bike up unless I'm getting ready to ride her for the break in period?????


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

My point is that alot of drama would have been avoided with the purchase of a $45 chain. I think it would have been well worth the $45, all things considered. A chain used constantly in sandy/muddy conditions will wear quicker than one used on dry, packed trails. Also, the tires hardly wear in sand...so...it really depends on the riding conditions. Besides, I wasnt making a comparison of a chain wearing at the same rate as tires...I simply said they were both regular maintenance items.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

jb_dallas: No issue here with your posts and no offense taken. The chain was actually in pretty good condition after cleaning her up. I did get the keeper on today using a pair of vice grips and a nut that is just big enough to fit over the Link studs. I feel like such a dummy trying to do it that way I was trying, glad that's over with. I will however keep a close eye on the chain and sprockets.

With the link and keeper in place, I got her out and broke her in. Put a quick 40 miles on her at a private farm today. As I was riding I kept smelling radiator fluid, I payed attention, but really didn't pay attention, ya know what I mean? Anyway I rode for a few more miles then it finally started to get my paranoia symptoms going so I stopped and took off the side panel and noticed a fair amount of fluid that was scorched on the inside of the pipe, YIKES here we go!!

I then noticed some fluid on the upper and lower part of the reserve tank, the overflow tube (where it connects to the bottom of the reserve ) was pretty wet. Now I'm freaking out going "What the devil did I do now?" Got to looking, sniffing around, I'm not seeing any mushroom soup in the crank, (that's good) no cracks any where.
So now I'm puzzled, the only thing I could think of is the reserve tank cap was not on tight enough. I tightened the cap up a little bit more and got back on to ride. No leaking so far, that fixed the problem, I hope. Anyone have the same issue as far as having to crank down on that cap?????

The cap was already on snug, but I guess it needs to be on there tight. Maybe the cap itself is shot, I'll keep an eye on it anyway.

As far as the break in, no issues. Like I said I rode for about 40 miles, keeping the load on for about the first 20 miles then gradually cranking on her. Right before I left, I did get into it on the top end, no issues. I ran through a gallon of gas pretty quickly.

I did however attempt to do some small Carb adjustments before the 40 mile break-in. I turned the air screw out another 1/4 of a turn it was already out 1 1/2. I had to adjust the idle speed a little as well. The plug was so wet the other day, I decided to up the needle clip one (second from the top) she had a small back fire when I would roll on the throttle when I first started her up but took her down the road. It was jumpy in the low RPM's so I put the needle clip back to the third position.

May need to get another slow jet to get it smooth in the 1/8 to 1/4 throttle position.
Time to do some reading on what the slow jet actually does.


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

That is certainly a sense of accomplishment...riding a bike that you rebuilt yourself. As far as the milage, I find that my 220 sucks down alot of fuel, but that is common with all 2 strokes I have known. My big bore WR gets much better milage than the KDX.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

jb_dallas: Mucho Gracious! I just have to get her fine tuned now. She runs like a scollded dog though. Have you had to crank down on that reserve Radiator fluid cap to keep fluid from coming out? Could be a old worn out cap, I think.


Posted by: jb_dallas---------------------

I havent had to crank down on the reserve cap to keep it from leaking. It sounds as if the tank is under alot of pressure or it wouldnt be leaking. I am wondering if a worn radiator cap could be causing the issue. If the radiator cap was weak, it could be putting additional pressure on the reserve tank.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

The reservoirs always seem to leak out. There is a tweak/mod around somewhere that you heat the tank where the vent tube is, and route it up over the frame.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

I'll look into both issues. Thanks~!!!!!!!!!!


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

I think you just may have had too much fluid in the bike and it did what it was suppose to do. I f you have fluid coming out around the cap then I assume the tank is full (too much) I run mine empty.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_dallas
My point is that alot of drama would have been avoided with the purchase of a $45 chain. I think it would have been well worth the $45, all things considered. A chain used constantly in sandy/muddy conditions will wear quicker than one used on dry, packed trails. Also, the tires hardly wear in sand...so...it really depends on the riding conditions. Besides, I wasnt making a comparison of a chain wearing at the same rate as tires...I simply said they were both regular maintenance items.



a $45 chain is not going to be half as good as the one in place.

If you are running $45 chains I can understand the "regular maintainence" you are preaching,

I am guilty of even worse....$25 cycle gear chain stretched so bad an ruined my renthal sprocket in one weekend!
peace bro


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder:
I filled her to the full line on the reservoir. I'm leaning towards I did not do a good job of snugging it down. I did not take the KDX out today, waiting for another Air Filter holder. The old one was split in several place's, should arrive Wednesday.

Instead I took the FZ1 out today for a little ride.................right at a 500 mile day ride. Took a ride into White Sulfur Springs WV. Then had lunch in Paint Back VA, best Buffalo Burger with in 1000 miles, good ride, great day, some decent twisties.

You ride with your reservoir dry??


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

yes, I leave my reservoir dry. If I don't, it all splashes out through the vent tube anyway. I tried just taking it off, but the rads were always low without it. I suppose it does it's job of catching overflow and allowing it back in but any excess will just get splashed out.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
sr5bidder:
I filled her to the full line on the reservoir. I'm leaning towards I did not do a good job of snugging it down. I did not take the KDX out today, waiting for another Air Filter holder. The old one was split in several place's, should arrive Wednesday.

Instead I took the FZ1 out today for a little ride.................right at a 500 mile day ride. Took a ride into White Sulfur Springs WV. Then had lunch in Paint Back VA, best Buffalo Burger with in 1000 miles, good ride, great day, some decent twisties.

You ride with your reservoir dry??



I was going to go on a little day ride up around Jasper today with my xt350 and then hike down to a cool stream, but my wifes aunt passed away last night so I have to clean out the mini van for an alabama trip


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder: Sorry to here about the loss.

I'm gonna do some reading on the Reservour tank, get a good sense of what it's true purpose is.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

its mostly for catching over boil


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Still waiting for the OEM air element holder, I wonder if the Japan disaster has slowed the part? I know it's getting ready to hurt the Toyota factories here. Maybe this is a sign, that maybe we should not out source all our fuc&ing jobs and idea's to the rest of the world. Take note Washington!!


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
sr5bidder: Sorry to here about the loss.

I'm gonna do some reading on the Reservour tank, get a good sense of what it's true purpose is.


My experience with it is that it does a good job of catching boil over, and letting it back into the rads as it cools. However, if you put "extra" in there, it WILL slosh out. I tried running without it for a while, and found the rads consistently low. I don't see this with the tank on. That's why I figure it does it's job with the overflow.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denbsteph
Still waiting for the OEM air element holder, I wonder if the Japan disaster has slowed the part? I know it's getting ready to hurt the Toyota factories here. Maybe this is a sign, that maybe we should not out source all our fuc&ing jobs and idea's to the rest of the world. Take note Washington!!


I meant to tell you earlier I have an extra filter cage kick'n around in the garage somewhere, been busy just got done with a 36hr 1400+mile round trip to PA and back.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder: Well glad you made it back in one piece. I got the element cage the other day. Now if the weather will cooperate this weekend I can go hit the trails for a while. If I get out and do some riding, I'll give a report on how things are going, mechanically wise that is. Looking forward to wringing her out for a while.

Julien_d: Thanks for the insight on the overflow tank. Makes sense to me.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Went out to the farm and created some trails yesterday on the 150. Glad I took the Honda, that black mud was as slick as oil, it was soggy and nasty. Either way, got the GO PRO mounted on the helmet, It should of dried out some. I'm gonna hit the farm again today after work with the KDX. Do some experimenting with the GO PRO. I have not put on the lowering link yet, I'll do it this week. Need that extra leg extension.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

Well I have went and done another mod, suspension overhaul at fti racing in Thomasville NC. Going to have it lowered two inches internally, rebuild the rear shock as well as the forks. The owner "Cal" is a wealth of knowledge. He was freaking out on the condition of the KDX, he was pretty much in awe. I'm now looking at a trials tire for the beast. I have done quite a bit of research concerning how the tire will react in all conditions. It seems that it will be quite a bit to handle at first, but with time it will be manageable.

I know julen_d and sr5bidder run a trials, but the question is what size are y'all running? Cant seem to find the 100/100. Or is everyone running the 110/90?
Looking at the Dunlop D803, not about to spend $150 for the Michelin.

If anyone is interested in buying some lowering links, I have the Kouba Link 1 for $40.00. I got these from sr5bidder, never put em on.

As far as the bike is going, running great. I have switched to Maxim two stroke Racing oil, smokeless type. I have run two tanks through her, no plug fouling seems to run pretty good. The bike has incredible pull from the low's thru the mids. It seems to just keep pulling, it's not flattening out in the top end....yet. When I get her back, I'll try once again to up load some pic's of her. Not having real good luck on the up loads. Later Dennis


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Trials tires are not sized that way. It will be a 4.00-18. The D803 is probably the most popular for trails. If you ride on-road at all or like high speeds consider the Pirelli MT43. I have had my MT43 fitted for nearly 3 years now and just can't wear the thing out. Remember the MT43 is NOT a competition trials tire, but rather a trials type tire designed specifically for trail use.


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

As always, thanks for the valuable information. I will look into that


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

julien_d: Where did you get the Pirelli tire at? checked numerous dealers and no go. Thanks Dennis


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

I got mine at mc superstore I think. Most places should have it. Here's a couple...

http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L...em=WES_871-7143

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.co...c=45&zmap=11015

http://www.bikebandit.com/pirelli-mt-43-motorcycle-tire


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

julien_d: I hit a google search and it came up, usually I hit bike bandit but it did not show until I hit googled the tire. Weird.

How much pressure are you running when you know you will be hitting some open trails, then back into the tight woods? Just trying to get a feel for what is coming. I have read about some riders running as much as 11lbs and as little as 4 lbs. I'll mainly be hitting the open trails for a quick blast then back into the tide woods, logs mud holes and up some hills.

Rim locks, are you running with just the one?

As always thanks for the info!!


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

Heavy duty tube, 1 rimlock, 6 - 8psi. If I know I'm going to be running all out on pavement I'll bump it up to 13. A compact pump comes in handy!


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

julien_d: Thanks again for the insight, I'll order the tires and HD tube next week. You are correct the compact pump does come in handy, I have that covered.

I just got her back and the first thing I noticed was she does not pull those wheelies as easy as before, I liked the wheelies. It was just a short ride, so I did not get a chance to see how she really handles. However it did appear to run differently, maybe its just me, but it did not appear to have that break away speed she had before..........maybe it's just me, I hope so. It did take about 7 kicks to get her going, which I found odd. If I can get some pics downloaded, I'll send some.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by julien_d
Trials tires are not sized that way. It will be a 4.00-18. The D803 is probably the most popular for trails. If you ride on-road at all or like high speeds consider the Pirelli MT43. I have had my MT43 fitted for nearly 3 years now and just can't wear the thing out. Remember the MT43 is NOT a competition trials tire, but rather a trials type tire designed specifically for trail use.


I have both now (803 and mt43)!!! the mt43 is mounted on the xt350 and it is very tall and rubbed the shock for about 40 miles. I ran it at motomountain and it has good traction and then put about 70 miles on road sunday. it is alot tougher on the street than the 803 would be. thinking of getting the mt43?? for the front of the xt if thats what the front is called, I am running 33lbs in the rear but may try to go down to 22lbs

the 803 on the kdx has been there since end 2008 and have got many many rides on it and can tell you the only down fall in sand and when you hit the brakes and really need to stop or going down a steep hill. I find at times the 803 has to much traction on hill climbs and have flipped 3 times I have learned to stay on the clutch up steep hills


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

sr5bidder: Yes I'm looking at the MT43 and putting a Pirelli scorpion EXTRA on the front. I'm gonna wait until next pay day and order the tires. For now the Stock tires will have to do. As always thanks for the information. Dennis


Posted by: denbsteph---------------------

julien_d and sr5bidder: I wonder if the Pirelli will rub on the silencer sense the bike was lowered internally 2"?? I'm gonna have to do some measuring before I order the tire......always something.


Posted by: julien_d---------------------

It may, or it may not.


Posted by: sr5bidder---------------------

I have the fmf pipe and silencer and it does not rub on it. I did however get some tread marks in my rear fender while running the kouba links I'm not sure if it does it anymore though without the links



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