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MI National Enduro - September 30th

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Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Who is planning to attend the next round of the National Enduro series?
We had a group of DRN members in Wolverine, MI this weekend helping to find and establish trail for this event. It will be a great event with a mixture of challenging trail tests and easy connecting sections.
If you want to view the flyer, application and a map, you can print a copy from www.enduroeng.com.
This same group of DRN members will be at the event on 9/30. Look for the DRN signs and stop to say HI.


Posted by: jrccc20967---------------------

Mike I would like to thank you and the memebers of Lansing Motorcycle Club for the great weekend.The Nat. trails that we worked on this past weekend will be alot of fun.I hope that Uncle Denny can keep that new KX all together on our next ride.Hey Fred keep an eye on your swingarm Denny my be looking for one.


Posted by: AnneBrooks---------------------

Are lights and licenses required for this event?? What's the terrain like, typical Michigan sand? Thanks in advance for the info.


Posted by: Fred T---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by AnneBrooks
Are lights and licenses required for this event?? What's the terrain like, typical Michigan sand? Thanks in advance for the info.


Can't totally spill the beans but this event is like no other in MI, the trail will be challenging and there are some beautilful views along the ride too. Look for rocks, roots, logs, uphills, downhills, tight trail and some other really cool stuff to ride in that will make the ride one of the better Michigan runs from what I can tell helping set up trail this last weekend. Mostly all new trail with connectors and no whooped out sandy single tracks to speak of.


Posted by: WALKMAN---------------------

fred, talking with parker on saturday during my hike he said lights and liscense were not a requirement to run their event. someone might want to check this out? priced the swingarm, not very pretty the tabs holding the chainguide are bent very bad with one bolthole just about ripped out, i'm going to take it to a machinest today, he might have to make new tabs! kawasaki= to much horsepower=to much speed + rocks= disaster:scream:


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Anne, most of the challenging trail will be on private property. Most of the connector trail will be two tracks and gravel roads. You will see very little pavement. I would recommend lights and a license (or make it look good). The law enforcement in the area is cooperative. Hope you can make it!!


Posted by: MN KDXer---------------------

Would lights/license be an absolute necessity? I was thinking about heading over for the event.


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Please read between the lines.....you need to have a headlight attached to the front of your bike and a license plate attached to the back fender.
Do not get caught up in the detais and enjoy the ride!!!:D


Posted by: xr600r---------------------

mike , do you know if mike lafferty will be there , even though he has
already got the championship ? my wife and i , and some freinds of
ours are going to spectate . we'll probably camp at weber lake for
the week-end .


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Last year Lafferty had the title wrapped up before the MI event and he still rode the race. Actually his mechanice, Alan Randt, is responsible for the event. I am sure Mike L. will be there. Last year he rode an 400 EXC four stroke and won the overall by a couple of points.
If you camp at Weber Lake, be sure to come to the staging area Saturday night. Fred T and I will be there!


Posted by: xr600r---------------------

yea , we were there last year , watching lafferty ride in the woods
is amazing , we'll try to swing around that way sat. night.


Posted by: MN KDXer---------------------

I understand the headlight and license plate "plan". Can the "plate" be duct tape w/ numbers? I've done that before.

How about age and/or driver's license requirement? My son is only 14, so he doesn't have a license, but he looks large enough to be 16+. Maybe, I should just pen in "16" as age and call it good.


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

I would not want to encourage someone to break a law....

However, if I were running tech inspection and someone told me the number on the tape was from a lost license plate I would pass the bike. I know that a 14 year old can ride enduros...I did it 21 years ago...my dad handled all of the paperwork and signatures.


Posted by: KTM Mike---------------------

I hope to be there (still trying to re-arrange my schedule) - but I sure hope there is a separate loop for A/AA riders so us slow guys can survive! Is there?

Nice to hear its not the typical Michigan endless sandy whoops (see my post on woods technique!) guess I will find out how bad my rocks, logs and roots technique is! Seeing that this is a National - is it likely way above a back of the pack C class rider's abilities?


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

I am headed to Wolverine again this weekend to mark the trail. I know the plan is the same as last year. No A/AA loop. Everyone will ride the same trail. It will challenge the AA riders, but not kill the C riders. Qualifier rules = No timekeeping.
There will be a number of sections. The longest and most difficult sections will be in the beginning. Towards the end of the day the longest section will be 4-5 miles.
I raced this event last year (my first race in 10 years). I was still riding hard and having fun at the end. I was able to compare my score to Lafferty..... it is amazing how fast he rides!!!


Posted by: KTM Mike---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by fatherandson
Qualifier rules = No timekeeping.


fatherandson - can you explain more about what "qualifier rules" are? All I have picked up is that you basically dont get burnt points for coming in early - but if you do arrive at a check early you can not depart until your minute comes up. Arriving early IS NOT a problem for me! Are there still resets etc to allow the slow pokes some breathing room?


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

I have only ridden one race using these rules. So others may know about the details than I do.
The beginning of each section (special test) is treated like the start of the race. You pull up to the flags, wait for your minute, and go as fast as you can through the section of trail. After each section will be a reset to get most riders back on time. There will be "connection" sections that will not be timed and will consist of two tracks and open trail. You can arrive to the check at the beginning of the section early and if you do you'll find other riders taking a break. If you arrive at the check at the beginning of the section late, it will cost you additional points.
I hope this is helpful. If others can better clarify these rules, please do.


Posted by: Timr---------------------

Here's an attempt to explain how a regular "AMA" enduro is run under "ISDE" type conditions: (real ISDE rules are different, with regard to entering test sections and staying on time. Is this enduro going to be run under ISDE rules or AMA rules that mimic ISDE type of race?)

1. Each section ("test section") starts with a Restart, yellow flags. This is a known control and is marked on the route sheet/roll chart.

2. You don't necessarily go "as fast as you can" to the next check. You still try to maintain the designated speed average. If the section was a 12 mph/speed average, and you went "as fast as you can" to the next check, you would still burn it. To get around this, most promoters will set the speed average high(24 mph +) so that no-one, even AA, will be able to zero the section. (one National that I rode a few years ago had a section with 90 mph speed average!!:scream: )

3. After the "check out" of the section. There will be a reset. This will put MOST people, but not all people back on time. If the reset is 30 minutes and you check out of the previous section 45 minutes late, you will still drop 15 points and the next restart. (In this situation, you need to go around all of the people sitting in line at the restart and get them to mark your card and take off into the next section.)

4. Technically, you're not supposed to show up to a Known Control, yellow flags, (restart) more than 15 minutes early, but this is rarely enforced.

So, what you end up with is a pattern of Start - Check - Reset. Followed by Restart - Check - Reset over and over until the end of the race. As long as you don't fall too far behind, you should be able to race through each section, stop at the reset, and then roll up to the restart and wait for your row number to come up and then do it all over again. Hence, you don't need any time keeping equipment.

I hope this explanation is somewhat clear. :confused:

BTW, I used to live in Michigan, and rode the CCC Tomohawk ride at Wolverine back in '93. GREAT trails!! If I wasn't going on a long trip to Dirtweek, I would consider driving up there for this race. Maybe I'll make it up there next year.


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Thanks Timr for clarifying the timekeeping issue.

I wanted to provide an update on the National enduro. We spent the weekend marking the trail. We put arrows on over 100 miles of trail. The last timed section will be an A/AA only section.
There will be plenty of resets and a lot of the transfer sections are fun (and fast) trails and two tracks.
The gas area will be the same for three stops and there will be plenty of spectators spots. Two of these spots will be grass tracks that are included in a timed section.
DRN will be well represented with a team of pre and sweep riders who you may see at a check also. If you are planning to ride this event, we will have a sign at our camper and will probably be wearing our DRN t shirts.
Please stop and say HI.


Posted by: KTM Mike---------------------

thanks for clearing up the time keeping issues as well. Also, glad to hear the A/aa riders will get their own abuse away from us "normal" folks!


Hearing there is good spectator spots might mean my wife and kids might show up at this one - typical enduros sure can be boring spectator sports!


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Some of the spectator spots may only be road crossings. However, if the spectator arrives early enough, they walk back into the trail for a better view or action photo.
One of the grass tracks is set up on a hill which makes for great viewing.

KTMMike, if you get to the race early on Saturday afternoon, I may be able to give you and the family a quick tour of the spectator spots and an idea of when you will be there.


Posted by: jrccc20967---------------------

I don't know about anyone else but I can't sleep at night. I just lay there and think about how much fun we are going to have in the next few weeks. Maybe I am crazy to ride my 1st enduro at a Nat, but hey you have to start somewhere.Look forward to seeing everyone.

ps please keep all my brother firefighter's in your prayers. Thank you

Big Jim


Posted by: Fred T---------------------

because you only have to concentrate on following the trail and riding your best with no time keeping to worry about. Theres 50 miles total of single track followed by resets and easy connector trail. It will be a great ride and a very cool grasstrack section to boot. It won't kill you but it will test your skills. See ya there Big Jim.


Posted by: KTM Mike---------------------

fatherandson - if we manage to get there early enough i will certainly look you up - the wife and kids will appreciate it!

Big Jim - its not that you have to be crazy for your first enduro to be at a National - you just simply have to be crazy to do your first enduro! (it sure helped me) I did my first enduro in July - have done three since then (4 if you count the Mini Moose) and am totally hooked! I have yet to place well - but I dont even care - I have to much fun paying people to put myself through that sort of abuse, and finish back of the pack. Make your goal to simply finish - that has been mine each race - dont worry about placing well.

Fred T is right - no worries on time keeping - but from the perspective of a slow guy - I never have to worry about time keeping anyhow!:confused: the format does sound neat -

to be honest - I am a bit leery of doing a "National" and a bit unsure of the whole qualifier format - but the last three races sure have been a blast - so what the heck - go for it!

look me up a the race - i will be in a motohome with a KTM on a trailer - oh... guess there will be lots of those... oh well...


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Jim and Mike,

My suggestion for you guys is to ask for a number in the 40-50 range. There will be a trail established and treat it as a trail ride. Have fun!!
Fred and I will probably be sweeping the last section. So if you guys are really late....you can ride with us. HA! HA!! HA!!!

Jim, is Walkman racing or working?? Ask him if I can ride the KX.
Just kidding.
I will be staying in Fred's motorhome and we are trying to create a DRN flag so everyone can find us.

Mike Jr.


Posted by: KTM Mike---------------------

Mike Jr - see you on the sweep! Late minutes are the way to go - my first race I was on minute 8 - BAD minute for first race! I spent all my time letting everyone else pass me! Jackpine and Cherry pit was 42 and 36 - worked great - had a great trail ride!

Oh - it turns out the family wont be along on this one - even as enticing as the great spectator spots were - they are opting for the local Elk Fest here in Atlanta... oh well...


Posted by: jrccc20967---------------------

I know this trip will be fun.Myself, Uncle Denny, & Iron man will be there.

Fred you might have to pipe some heat out of that RV and into our tent.Denny had more problems this past weekend but what the heck that is par for him this summer. Mike you come up with the DRN flag and I wil bring the stars and strips. See you all there.

Big Jim


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Big Jim,

I just talked to Fred. Sounded like a wet ride...
He said that the three of you are planning to race the event. Sounds great!
You should make sure you all start on the same minute. Make the request on your preentry or at the sign up table. I will be around Saturday afternoon and evening to answer any questions to you enduro "rookies".
Is someone coming to run your gas truck? If not, no big deal. All of the gas stops are at the same place and we can work something out. I hope somebody is there to take pictures.

Mike Jr.


Posted by: jrccc20967---------------------

Denny is bring Carrie with him to run gas. I might have some one to take photo's for us.Yea it rained. I got home and the 2 yr old was helping me clean out the gear bag and all she could say was "yucky daddy". I hope that it dries oout alittle before next weekend.See you there.
Big Jim


Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

Hey guys! I will be heading up for my first enduro also. What range of minute should I shoot for? I am no slouch, but I sure am not an A/AA rider. But I am probably as fast as Lafferty----If he had a cast on his leg, riding a Z50!
Seriosly, I think I can do ok I have been training pretty hard riding about 75 miles hard on saturdays, an easy 20-30 on sunday and a local moto track at least once during the week. Does my minute realy matter that much? I dont want to get ran over but I dont want to be riding bad ruts all day?
Should I pick up a scorecard holder, or should I just tape it on? Also there will be three gas stops? Will they be at checks? Is there a gas truck like I heard, or do I need some one to haul my can? I don't mean to drop so many questions but I want to be prepared! I may have to go by myself and want to figure it all out. I may have a buddy but he may be riding also. Yes I am GEEKED!
There will be a few of us riding at Higgins lake Thursday at 10:30 am If anyone wants to do some final riding/testing. Then friday to a Tighter trail yet to be determined. Feel free to drop me a line. Thanks again for all the info.


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Superbike,

Welcome to the enduro crowd!!!

I would recommend a number of 40-50. A lot of the trail is new. I rode on number 50 last year and had a great time. Lafferty will be on 21 and most of the really fast guys will be between 20-40. This year I am helping with the event.

When I rode last year I taped the score card to my fender and had no problems. There will be three gas stops, but all of them are located at the same spot. A gas truck will be provided. If you use it, make sure you mark your can with your name and number.

I wish I could join you earlier in the week, but work prevents it. Fred T and I will be arriving about noon on Saturday. Look for a white motorhome and a maroon Ford Explorer with an assortment of Kawasakis and KTMS. We will probably have a black DRN t shirt on a flag pole. Stop and say "HI".

Good Luck!!


Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

Will you be staying at the lake? I will be in a white ford with my YZ 426 in the back. I will probably drive through, and see who is there. I am really exited.
Any Ideas for a guys first enduro that I should bring that I may not think of? Will there be anyplace to get water, at halfway maybe? I tend to drain the camelback! Thanks for the info guys this is a great post.
I will be able to ride tommorrow because of a temporary lay off. Any one need a machinist? At least I can ride! Thanks, Mike


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Fred and I will be staying at the staging area (in a field). You could leave a bottle of water with your gas can with the gas truck. If you can find us Saturday night or early Sunday morning, we may be able to work something out for you.
You should check out another post on the Places to Ride Forum. We are planning a trail ride for October 13 and 14.


Posted by: xr600r---------------------

is the staging area in the same place as last year ?


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Yes, it is. We mowed the field a couple of weeks ago. It will look a lot different on Saturday with all of the race rigs, trailers, vans and tents.


Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

I just put on my lights, bike looks cool. I guess its a YR 426, because one of my moto buddys said " Y R you doing that to a good YZ?" I told him the facts, It is the only way you can go on a good ride!!!! (sorry, bad joke) I will look for you saturday. Can we go through tech sat. at sign up? I will come by and say hi. I am loaded for tomorrow getting in a little last minute training. Oh, can we check out the course at all on saturday? Thanks again, ---Mike


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Yes and NO.

Yes, you can through tech on Saturday between 3:00 and 7:00.

No, you can not ride the trail on Saturday if you plan to race on Sunday. I will be spending Saturday afternoon checking some trail, but I will be back at staging area later in the afternoon (or early evening).


Posted by: WALKMAN---------------------

fatherandson, it does'nt look like we will be up until saturday afternoon,we will not be staying at the staging area. ironman and digger are not coming, so we lost a bunch of hauling room and a big condo of a tent. big jim is wound right up, i hope he does'nt crash out due to excitement. we will see you saturday, any ideas on motels?


Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

I got 65 miles in today, fullblast. It was a hoot! I got a good workout. Since I am laid off, i get to fix the car and prep the bike tomorrow. Why is it I can spend a week working on a bike, but changing the oil and fixing the exaust on grama's car is such a drag. I am wound up myself, but not all that tight! -----Mike


Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

Walkman, I am staying at the Holiday Inn Express, Indian river. You can get somthing in Gaylod also. ----------Mike


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Walkman, last year dad and I stay in Petoskey at the Apple Tree Inn. You have been to the staging area. It is in the middle of no where. Any hotel is going to be a 30 minute drive. I think the brochure at enduroeng.com has some other hotel suggestions.
I just got an email from Fred. Looking forward to meeting in Grayling and caravaning it to the staging area.


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

It is time to pack the truck, load the bikes and head north (early in the am).
I am looking forward to seeing everyone in Wolverine!!!

Mike Jr.


Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

I did not see you guys up there. I looked for a shirt but did not see it. I will try to nake the trailfest. I entered B- 4stk and got 4th. I was worried I would burn out, so I took it a little easier than I should have. I am still pretty beat up! I had fun, saw some pretty bad crashes. Corey Parlins broke his arm pretty bad. I am hooked guys, thanks for the help. -------Mike


Posted by: Fred T---------------------

We were parked to the left of the sign up/ scoring tents at the end of that "roadway" in a small white motothome. Sorry we missed you but glad you made the whole ride and did well.


Posted by: jrccc20967---------------------

Superbike what minute where you on. Walkman man and myself was on 50. I needed to relax alot more.What the heck on I had a ok time. I was one of the guys helping Parlins out on the trail.The kid can move on the trail. I am looking forward to Rose city and spode fest.See you all soon.

Big Jim


Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

I was on 51! You were the one with the black helmet. I was on the YZ 426. I stopped and asked if you had help on the way. I later asked how he was, and you told me he was on the way to the hospital. You said the bike was still in there and I said I thought I saw them load it up. I also pulled up before the race and talked to the gentleman on the 520. I am pretty sure that I know exactly who you are. That was so cool that you stayed with him. I wonder how it turned out. What bikes were you guys on?----------Mike


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Big Jim, I have said it before, it is GREAT to go riding with an EMT (just in case). I am sure Corey was glad you were there. I am sorry it shortened your ride. See you at the Trailfest in two weeks.

MM Jr.


Posted by: WALKMAN---------------------

ssuperbike, i was the guy on the kx250 that you kept passing! next time i hope i'm feeling 100% so i can stay ahead of you!! you looked like you were riding pretty good, except the endo in the tight stuff in 5th section. good job on your fourth place! do you know Jim Kelly he's a farmer in ovid, he was a good friend of mine when i lived in chesaning. fatherandson, i think i should have backed out, i am dying today! this cold is the worst i've had in years!! send your prayers for gabby she went in the hospital yesterday afternoon with pneumonia, sounds like she'll be there for a few days.i'm staying at work for a couple of hours then going home to dream of better days!


Posted by: fatherandson---------------------

Walkman, I had no idea you were feeling bad. You were quiet on Sunday morning, but I thought it was nerves.
I had fun working the event. However, the highlights of the day were seeing you and Jim at the first road crossing and then seeing you come into the final check before the third gas. Finishing your first enduro is an accomplishment.

Ssuperbike, I wish we had met before the event. Congratulations on the 4th place!!! How many points did you drop? Lafferty was upset when he dropped one point at our check. Last year he zeroed that section.
Maybe you can make it to the Trailfest and give Walkman another chance to stay ahead of you. See the Places to Ride forum.


Posted by: Fred T---------------------

sorry to hear about Gabby, keep us posted. She seemed to be OK Sunday. Hope you don't have it too!


Posted by: KTM Mike---------------------

Hi all - i to survived my first national - dont even know what place i got or total points as i had to leave before things were tallied up. But - you know - i really dont care how i did - it was enough for me to simply have made it to the race - survived it in better shape (i think) than previous races! I am actually less sore and beat and tired feeling after this one than i have been on any of the others I have done this year. My goal still continues to be to finish every event I enter - give me a couple years before I start to worry about how well i place!

Almost did not make it - my truck broke down in Wolverine on the way to the race -about 6:30 am. Long story - but i flagged down another racer (never got his last name - but first name was Steve on a KTM380 B class on minute 61) who kindly let me and my riding partner load our two bikes, all our stuff on his trailer/truck - took us to the race, his brother Scott(?) ran gas for us, then they took us back to our truck when we were done. Now - that is a great example of the great spirt of enduro racing! Thanks guys! I certainly will pass on that favor if i see some other racer stranded on the way to a race.

Boy - Fatherandson - early on you commented about lots of roots and logs - you sure were right! that first section was a nasty one in my book. I must admit - my head sure was not screwed on straight early on - kept thinking about how I was going to get my truck fixed in Wolverine on a Sunday afternoon. A $170 tow bill solved that finally! I dropped lots of points early on - endless stupid bobbles - seemed I stalled my bike about once every 10 minutes - never really crashed, but a couple time dropped the bike while basically standing still while hung up on a log or something. I then finally got focused and started having more fun. I saw fatherandson at last check - but guess i was to tired to let you know it was me - sorry about that.

Great event - i will likely do it again - but boy i would hate that one if it were raining - talk about slippery stuff!


Posted by: jrccc20967---------------------

ssuperbike I was the guy on the wr426. Let me guess you had Eric Gorr do a top end job on your bike.I have to get a DRN sticker on my bike. I am glad that everyone one had a good time. See you in 2 weeeks.ssuperbike I use to work at Owosso Speedway every weekend as head of the Safety Team. I had to give it up so that I had time to ride
Big Jim


Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

Yep, that was I! I dropped 58 points. I really lost time on the 2nd section when I went over the bars (23 min.). I guess that is what keeps you going back, knowing you can do better. The YZ first gear was a bit much for snaking in the really tight parts. How did you guys do? I just wish I had a way to practice the tight stuff. I was affraid I would burn myself out to early. I should have poured it on a little harder. I broke my radiator and pipe hitting a tree in 3rd coming off a log. The radiator is off to get fixed and FMF said they will warranty the pipe. The golf ball size lump has gone down on my arm. If all goes well I will make it to the upland enduro. If not I will be at Rose city. I had the time of my life. jrccc how is the wr in the tight stuff? how does first/second gear wok in the tight stuff?---------Mike



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