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Amsoil products

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Posted by: 400F MAN---------------------

I've heard that these products are supposed to be fantastic.Anyone out there have experience with their products good or bad? Or specific test results against other major name oils?:think


Posted by: spanky250---------------------

Amsoil tarnishes the jets, and their 100:1 ratio recommendation is ludicrous. It seems to be a fairly clean burning oil until you start mixing it in real-world ratios, like 32:1, then it starts to produce a lot of spooge, even in well jetted bikes. I'll never use it again.


Posted by: TR---------------------

The amsoil is proven in some 4 strokes. The 20w/50 works well in in the XR400s. Some of the racing teams in Australia use amsoil, even though they have sponsorship for other products. This was in response to regular bottom end failures. amsoil has been around along time and aprt from the last 2 years unchanged.

In the Husky CR50 we starting use it at 50:1. This bike has in my opinion premature bottom end failures. If the CR50 should still be intact by the end of they then the oil has probably done its job.

On our '00 yz125 and '01 yz250 we use the Yamaha R2 product.


Posted by: biker---------------------

Spanky,
It confuses me when the oil bottle says one thing and the manufacturer says another ratio. I needed premix a couple of weeks ago, and it was to late to get to the bike shop. There is a used bike/service shop by the house and the only premix he had was the 100:1 Amsoil. He said to run it at 100:1 and claimed he had good luck with it. I was nervous about using it, but was in a pinch, so I ran about a tank through the bike. It smoked less, as he said it would, but I got rid of the rest of it and went back to the Honda HP at 32:1. Is it safe to run oil at the ratio on the bottle or should you stick to what the manual says? I guess it probably depends on the oil, but would like some feedback from somebody who knows.


Posted by: spanky250---------------------

Most oil bottles give you a range of ratios to use, depending on your riding conditions, and the amount of oil per gallon neccessary for that ratio. The Amsoil smokes a lot less at 100:1 simply because there is a lot less oil in the mix. I run Yamalube 2R at 32:1 in my bike, with very little smoke or spooge. I would never run less than this in a 250, and I would run at least 26:1 in a 125. More oil in the mix provides better protection, and a better cylinder seal, for more power and better running. Once you settle on an oil and a ratio, you can begin jetting the carb properly. A properly jetted bike won't spooge or smoke a lot once it is at operating temperature.

100:1 oil ratios were developed originally for fishing boats. They spend long periods of time at idle, then slam the throttle wide open to get to another spot quickly. All the oil that would build up in the crankcase while idling would get slammed into the cylinders when the throttle was opened, with predictable results.


Posted by: DahlElama---------------------

Does Amsoil still sell the 2 Cycle 100:1 oil? Years ago I used the 100:1 Amsoil in weed eaters and chainsaws and a couple of older two stroke trail bikes. Never had any problems. Amsoil does have a Series 2000 2 Cycle oil that is designed for 50:1 ratio. It's the stuff LaRocco uses. I have been using the Series 2000 Amsoil mixed at 50:1 exclusively in my 01' GasGas XC250 (after break in of course). Prior to that I used it in my KDX without a hitch. I ride in hot, dry Southern Idaho condtions. Low spooge, less smoke and more power than when using standard petroleum based 2 Cycle oils at 32:1.
http://www.amsoil.com/products/twocycle/index.htm

I run Amsoil in all my vehicles and have never had a failure. It's expensive, but worth it. Nope... I'm not a salesman, it's just good stuff.

Get on the GAS GAS! ~e


Posted by: biker---------------------

Yes they sale the 100:1. A purchased a bottle about a month ago.


Posted by: KXaggerator---------------------

I have had good results with the Series 2000 at 40:1 mixed with C12. I have used it in my chainsaw, KX500, and KX250 (now 310) for two years. I have always found a good coating of oil on the lower end bearings on tear down even after months of non use before tear down. The light ash on top of the pistons has always been easily scraped off with my finger nail and the power valves stay fairly clean. I have had zero problems with spooge and the silencer packing has also been clean. The first 5 gallons through the 310 has been mixed at 32:1, but after the initial break in I am going back to 40:1 for the extra fuel mileage it offers. Let me state that I do not tend to ride motocross, if you do you may want to run 32:1. I tend to run my bikes at the leaner end due to the elevation changes I face where I ride, I have not had any problems, but that's just me, I don't suggest doing as I do. On a stupid meaningless note I like the way it smells. :silly:


Posted by: DahlElama---------------------

I don't ride motocross either and on our standard rides our altitude variations are from 4000-7700ft. Any particular reason you don't mix at the recommended 50:1?

Quote:
On a stupid meaningless note I like the way it smells.


Me too... but my riding buddies sure don't seem to. They say it stinks... But if they are complaining about my exhaust smell, the complaints must really stem from the fact that they are chasing.....


Posted by: 400F MAN---------------------

Spanky250: How long was the time frrame it too to tarnish your jets? That ratio does sound crazy 100:1.It mkes sense for the boat engines.

TR: I have a four stroke so that sounds good. Did the cr50 have premature problems because of the mix you think or did the oil help? Yamaha does make good products in my opinion. Thats what I've been using in my bike so far.

entangidahl: Do you follow the recomended time frame to change your oil and filter?Did you ever have to replace the piston and rings on the kdx? I think your right about your buddies. Ride it like you stole it!!!

KXaggerator:Why do you mix it at 40:1?Have you noticed any extended time frame between top end rebuilds?


Posted by: TR---------------------

400F Man, the crank failure on the CR50 is a mystery. Both main bearings and the big end bearing were worn. The piston and rings were still servicable. The crank had blue colouration around the big end area. This is similar to what happens when welding metal. I suspect the crank suffered from oil failure and overheated.

We are only using R2 because we have lots of it. Eventually we will try to standarize on the same oil for all the bikes.

... Perspective:
100:1 = 1%
50:1 = 2%
25:1 = 4%

What do you think matters the most: quality or quantity ? In my opinion the quality is what matters most.

Regards
TR


Posted by: GlennP---------------------

Spanky,

What oil are you refering too? I had tarnishing problems with Redline, thats why I switched to Amsoil Series 2000 @ 40:1. No tarnish, clean burning, great performance and fantastic top end life in a '00 GasGas 250 that is raced/ridden weekly. I assume you are refering to the old 100:1 stuff.


Posted by: spanky250---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by GlennP
I assume you are refering to the old 100:1 stuff.
You are right. That is the only Amsoil product I ever tried, and that was 6-7 years ago. I didn't even know they had a different oil out on the market, I ignore the Amsoil bottles now. I am very happy with the Yamalube, so I see no need to start trying different oils.


Posted by: spanky250---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by TR
... Perspective:
100:1 = 1%
50:1 = 2%
25:1 = 4%

What do you think matters the most: quality or quantity ? In my opinion the quality is what matters most.
TR
Considering that 4% is 4 times as much oil as 1%, I don't see how you can shrug quantity off as being insignificant. There is a lot of evidence to support using high quantities of oil in the mix. The higher oil content produces better piston-to-cylinder sealing, resulting in measurably better engine performance.


Posted by: KXaggerator---------------------

The reason I run 40:1 is three fold. It is a compromise between fuel economy and engine protection, like I said I run as lean as I feel safe at lower elevations, this is also why I run C12. I do a lot of long hill climbs and ride with fast AA enduro guys, so needless to say I still work my engines pretty hard. Second 16 oz to 5 gallons is just too easy, as many oils come in .5 liter and 16 oz bottles ( I know .5 liters will not make 40:1, but it is close). Third, it has become the agreed to standard with my riding buddies, so we can share fuel on long rides without it effecting jetting. Though I do have a friend that brings extra oil to adjust his jetting if his bike starts to run ratty at higher elevations.
One of my friends uses Castrol A747 in his CR500AF. On the last ride with with him I made a down hill death pass through the brush to get away from the sickening stench. It is good oil, it is the most widely used oil in Grand Prix Bikes in Europe, but it stinks to heaven and goes for $21.95 a liter. I have had no luck trying to get him to change oil. Personally I find the Amsoil to have a slight castor oil aroma. I think it is common courtesy to run a good smelling oil for the sake of those that have to ride behind you on tight trails. From time to time you can find me putting my nose to the silencer of my bike as I walk through the garage; mmmm, smells like freedom. :confused:


Posted by: MBFTY---------------------

I ran Amsoil in my quad for three oil changes...

After that, I had a blown top end, my cam was a little scratched, and my rockers had scratches as well!

Needless to say, I will NEVER use Amsoil again. 7 dollars a quart just isnt worth the loss in reliability. And I was changing the oil and filter every 2 rides.


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by MBFTY
I ran Amsoil in my quad for three oil changes...

After that, I had a blown top end, my cam was a little scratched, and my rockers had scratches as well!


That wasn't the oil's fault and you know it.
You wonder why people don't take you seriously or show you any respect out here? Posts like this are the reason why.


Posted by: Patman---------------------

I'd be willing to bet that almost nobody here could tell if I bike had been run on Amsoil Series 2000 at 50:1 (the proper Amsoil oil for 2 cycle dirt bikes) and ANY other top synthetic. Been running the correct Amsoil oil in all my vehicles and toys and have zero problems. The bottom line is using the PROPER Amsoil lube for the application. Using the 100:1 would be like using olive oil, hey it's oil right? Motul, Silkolene, Castrol, Mobil, and Amsoil all make top notch products but none of them can make you put the CORRECT lube in your application or mix it at the proper ratio. Tarnished jets? I doubt it, might want to check the fuel. Scratched internal pieces and a blown top end after three changes. Right :silly: Heck if you actually were informed you would have known Amsoil would have paid the bill for your rebuild if it had been determined the oil caused the failure.

Bottom line? Use the correct oil for your application no matter who makes it, warm your engine up before WFO and other common sense and you should be just fine.

Oh by the way does anybody recall LaRocco having a DNF due to any lubricated part failing?....... me neither.


Posted by: MBFTY---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by Patman
Heck if you actually were informed you would have known Amsoil would have paid the bill for your rebuild if it had been determined the oil caused the failure.


I dont believe the top end was caused by the oil. It found it was caused by a stuck ring. The cam and rockers, however, are a different story. It had to take the valve cover off about a month before because it was starting to leak a very little. They looked fine then. At the time of the rebuild, they were a little messy.

They didnt need to be replaced, but were a bit more worn than I would like to see them.

I know that Amsoil would have replaced them, But I would have waited 6 months and had to ship them to be inspected and all kinds of crap. Not worth it. Ive got hardened a-arms and a race cam as well, so I would have never gotten the same parts back.


Posted by: Patman---------------------

So the Amsoil actually DIDN'T cause the engine to blow as you stated? Which specific Amsoil were you using that caused the scratches? Seems to me it you are seeing visible scratches that are causing concern your filer is not doing it's job taking the crud out or perhaps your clearances were too tight and this would have happend with any oil. Reguardless, Amsoil is not the be all end all in lubrication just as Mobil or Redline or Elf or any of the other are not. Just another option. For me their products work great and are priced in the range of any other solution. Anybody ever use a one size fits all grease? I imagine so, here again you will be looking for trouble.

Don't pound the square peg in the round hole.


Posted by: MBFTY---------------------

Well, If it was the filter, I can go after Honda. I bet I would have had no problem getting the parts... All they have to do is ship them from Japan, and they would do that as soon as they got done building the boat around them.

Either way, Its all over with now. Ive been using Pro Honda, and so far no problems.


Posted by: fmfkx125372---------------------

I've been through thee of Amsoil's 1 gallon bottles, and this stuff works great for me. I used it 50:1 in my '98 KX125 with great results. We also used it in my brother's 98 CR80 Expert with the same results. Every time I did a top end, everything looked immaculate. Cylinder, piston, power valve, they all were in great shape. I won't run anything but the Amsoil 2000...


Posted by: GlennP---------------------

Ditto. '00 GasGas XC250, 1400+ race miles. Original piston, still in spec. Inspection and rings at 800 miles, could have put it back together with original rings. Motor tight and quiet, PV clean. Amsoil Series 2000 @ 40:1. Mail order convienience at a fair price.


Posted by: ATK ADAM---------------------

Quote:
There is a lot of evidence to support using high quantities of oil in the mix. The higher oil content produces better piston-to-cylinder sealing, resulting in measurably better engine performance.

Actually, that's a myth that was disproved in an article in Dirt Rider a few years ago. There was very little difference in power between 16:1 and 50:1.

Anyone that is considering Amsoil 2 stroke oil in a dirt bike should use the Series 2000. If you're using the 100:1 and like it that's fine but the Series 2000 is improved and specifically designed for use in hi load applications like snowmobiles and dirt bikes.

<Mod Edit>
No spamming allowed
<end>


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by ATK ADAM

Actually, that's a myth that was disproved in an article in Dirt Rider a few years ago. There was very little difference in power between 16:1 and 50:1.


If you are referring to the article written by Gordon Jennings you might want to read it a bit more closely. While the McCulloch study and the personal experiences that Gordon Jennings sites are far from the final word on the subect it certainly makes a strong case for high oil volumes.


Posted by: WoodsRider---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by ATK ADAM
Actually, that's a myth that was disproved in an article in Dirt Rider a few years ago. There was very little difference in power between 16:1 and 50:1.

I don't know if I'd believe any technical information published in that, or any other dirt bike magazine. I do however know of some SAE technical publications that were written by McCullogh (sp?), the chainsaw manufacturer. During dynamometer testing they were able to increase horsepower as more oil was added into the fuel, up to the point of fouling the spark plug. This is why jetting has to be "spot on" when running oil mixtures greater than 32:1. I wish I could reference the SAE number on these papers, but the information I have is buried away in storage right now. Perhaps Rich or Eric would know?


Posted by: ATK ADAM---------------------

So you guys must run ratios of 16:1 then if that gives the most power. . .right? I cant tell you from my own experience that there is no seat of the pants difference between 32:1 and 50:1. If you reread my post I said there was very little difference, measurable on a dyno yes but out in the real world-probably not.


Posted by: WoodsRider---------------------

Adam - While the additional horsepower may be minimal, more oil would provide additional lubrication to the bearings, cylinder wall and rings thus minimizing wear. For those of us that ride our bikes hard and keep them for several seasons, this would make sense. It's much easier to change jets than change a piston and ring set. Besides, I can foul a plug at 50:1 just as easily as I can at 20:1.


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by ATK ADAM
So you guys must run ratios of 16:1 then if that gives the most power. . .right?


I do.
At DW01 my 01 CR125 was running 16:1 due to the very fast wide open layout of the track. On the short tight SX track we normally ride on I usually run 20:1. I never run MY bikes at anything higher than 24:1 but I don't ride the woods either. In light to moderate load situations that much oil is usually overkill and will just end up in the silencer anyway.


Posted by: ATK ADAM---------------------

Well ya got me. I think I'll keep running mine at 50:1 though. The bottom end in my wife's kdx was still running after 9 years doing it this way, but what do I know.


Posted by: MikeS---------------------

Amsoil 2000 @ 20:1 in our RM80s, TM125, 300MXC. Yes the 300 spooges when I play ride, otherwise silencers are grey tiped and dry undr race conditions. The RM is on its second piston and ring after 21 Harescrambles and Junior is a top 5 rider.

I haven't had the nerve to try 16:1 yet :scream:


Posted by: rennym---------------------

We use Amsoil 100:1 in all the two stroke machines. We run it at 67:1 instead for a little more protection, and no spooge.

The stuff is great. I use it in all the 4 strokes as well, and not one engine failure.

One thing to consider is that Amsoil makes many different oils and grades, and they rank differently among their peers in each of those other products. The two stroke 100:1 oil is great in my opinion, and the 20W50 is great for the 4 strokes.

RM


Posted by: 400F MAN---------------------

Three of my friends now use amsoil in their 2 strokes pre mix and in their crank case. All three of them agree that their bikes are running better than ever. I first thought to use the 20w50 weight oil in my 400 ,but when I called the company they told me that the 10w40 was recamended. I'd like to know why they said not to use the 20w50? Have you ever heard of this?:think



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