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Experiance with kit cars?
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Posted by: Jeff Gilbert---------------------

I opened my big mouth and suggested I build a kit car for my daughter (10 now) and she is pumped. I think I may have bitten off more than I want to chew. Does anyone here have any experiance with building a kit car? If I decide to do it I had better get started cause she'll be driving in 6 more years, not much time left:scream:

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

I am building a Cobra replica for my father next summer. It is from a company called Factory Five Racing. www.factoryfive.com . The kit accepts all late model mustang parts and takes about 300 hours to complete. Take a look, it is a great car, super fast and fun.
I am helping a local builder with his. Just put the body on for the first time last night!

Posted by: JuliusPleaser---------------------

I have a client who has a partially completed Porsche 959 Speedster kit, and he is desperate to sell it. You might get a deal on it if that's what you're looking for.

Concerning kit cars in general, examine my initial sentence closely. Pay particular attention to the words "partially completed" and "desperate". :D

Posted by: txvintage---------------------

About a gazzillion years ago, a friend of mine and his dad started a kit car when we were Freshmen in high school (1977). The plan was to have it finished by his 16th Birthday.

He got it btween the first and second semester of our Freshman year in College in 1981!:silly:

Posted by: KXKen---------------------

Don't make the mistake that I always make with car projects. I have a tendency to work on some thing for 9 or 10 hours in one day and then not touch it for 6 months. Work on it everyday (or almost everyday) even if it's just 1/2 hour or something.

Try to find somebody else that has done the exact same project that your going to do and find out where they got hung up so you can avoid "reinventing the wheel" crap.

One thing I would check into is the legalities of getting it street legal (emissions, safety inspections, ect. ect. ect.)

I'm considering doing one myself but my goal is to get it done before I die. This might be a little optimistic (for me) but I want to leave something that I built myself to my son for him to enjoy.

Good luck Jeff

Posted by: R White---------------------

not to worry I also have a daughter 10. try this find a old rusting VW BUG,
convince her its better than a kit car. then embark on a total resto. job. by the time shes 16 it will be done. Not to fast and total chick car and she'll love you for it. and your cost will be less.

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

You can build a Cobra replica in a couple of months working weekends and exspect to pay around 15000 when done for a show quality one. The best part, they are as fast as a viper and are seriously sweet IMO.

Posted by: Kawidude---------------------

...or better yet, have a company build a kit car for you! My father-in-law bought a 427 Cobra kit car from a company called Superformance. It's got a 427 engine, Wilwood brakes, the works. I'm sure you could find them on the 'net somewhere. I know they will sell the kits so you can do the work yourself too. I've had the pleasure of driving it several times and I can tell you there is nothing like the feeling of knowing that nothing else on the road with four wheels will be able to touch you.

Posted by: R White---------------------

one thing has been lost here. Kit car for a girl thats now just 10yrs old. would put your 16yr old daughter in a car with a 427ci , two things can only happen! and that's why my daughter who is 10 only has a 80. when she is 16 she will have a 125 not a 426. TIME! :think

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Hey yeah, I've got a kit car!
My 68 vette--hmmm, let's see...frame on stands, body--not even sanded, interior shelled, wiring mapped on the garage floor, dashboard hanging off the wall, motor--well, a tired 502 sitting on the garage floor, and one pissed wife (it's her car!).

The only thing I can say that's completed is the susp./brakes. It's amazing how fast stuff comes off the damn thing, and seem to never make its way back.:silly:

Yeah, it's a kit alright.

Posted by: Jeff Gilbert---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by R White
one thing has been lost here. Kit car for a girl thats now just 10yrs old. would put your 16yr old daughter in a car with a 427ci , two things can only happen! and that's why my daughter who is 10 only has a 80. when she is 16 she will have a 125 not a 426. TIME! :think

That's why I was considering a VW type kit car. Thinking about one of those MG type kits. She wants a Countach and from what I've read, they are the hardest to build. You can bet if by luck I were to take the task of the Countach on and actually manage to pull it off, it would have the Fiero motor or a V-6 at the most. I just can't see laying out that kind of money for my kids 1st car can you?

Posted by: Tigger---------------------

8 years until i can drive dad :think ( they are passing a new law in 2002) and i want a countach car a lamburguini roadster

I'm

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

Actually, easier than the MG replicas and WAY easier than the Countach replicas is the Cobra replica. No fabrication is required and it iwll beat both when you are done for less money. Most countachs have streched frames and wretched fiero motors. They kits also do not include much of what is neede to complete the car while the Cobra kits do.
If you want lots of links, post here and I will post them.

Posted by: Tigger---------------------

I canhave any car I want right, DADDY!

Quote:

Actually, easier than the MG replicas and WAY easier than the Countach replicas is the Cobra replica. No fabrication is required and it iwll beat both when you are done for less money.

(just kidding ha,ha)

Posted by: stormer94---------------------

I have fabricated 4 wheeled racing vehicles from the ground up, I cannot imagine the time it takes to build an actual street car with stupid things like windows, door hinges and latches, full upholstery, glove box, blinkers...etc... Gotta be 500-1000 hours if you KNOW what you are doing and have a shop full of tools. If you don't already own a welder, plasma cutter, torch and every tool that Craftsman makes, you might not be the right guy for the job. I'm not saying it takes all that stuff, but you better enjoy fabrication and wrenching BEFORE you start the project. I know 4 guys that have started and failed to finish cars. One of the guys DIED before his was done... :scream:

I'd buy one done before I built one. The Cobra guys in Fargo ND, can get you a turnkey Cobra replica for $40,000. Likely worth every penny (if you value your sanity and spare time till 2010).

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

Srotmer, I met a man that is building a cobra replica from the above stated manufturer. He has spent about 200 hours so far total and it is ready for paint. No fabritaction, just plain old hand tools. Some other kits take 1000's of hours, but if you shop aroung(there a 40 cobra manufacturers!), there are nice, easy to build kits. The best part, for 15000 dollars you have a show quality car that is as fast as a viper and handles better. My father is going through his midlife crisis at the moment, so he has assigned me the job of building him the car to cure it.

Posted by: stormer94---------------------

KawieKX125,

Well, I seriously doubt the handling better than a viper thing, considering it probably uses a mustangII front stub. Or whatever donor parts are cheap.

I do agree that most can be done, and quite well. I'm just being realistic. I think most people don't realize how technical they really are. I read somewhere that only one in 10 ever gets finished.

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

Visit www.factoryfive.com and see for yourself. They have performance specs somehwere. I have a video where people aotocross them and they regularly beat vipers and corvetts with a puno 302 out of a 'stang. VERY impressive if you ask me.

Posted by: Patman---------------------

Why not find a really cool old car Spitfire, Midget, Bug, 2CV, ... and restore it? That way she has some metal around her instead of fiberglass, it may be easier to insure and if she doesn't wreck it then it will appriciate in value.

Or I guess you could go get a Factory Five Cobra kit......:silly: Right KawieKX125?

Personally the last thing I'll do is give my kid the keys to a fiberglass anything (especially a Cobra) when he's 16. Lot's of steel, the more the better. That way I can go get a new ride :D (but I doubt it will be a Factory Five Cobra)

Posted by: stormer94---------------------

kawie,

There's a difference between the average kit car and a race car like those guys are doing. Those guys are trying to build racecars. Just look at the frame, not typical kit car stuff:

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ff.../cleanframe.gif

Posted by: stormer94---------------------

And now, having really looked at that site, they even have a car called the 'spec racer'. For those racing on a budget.

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ff...r/spectour.html

Nice stuff though.

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

patman, it is not for me! I will be building for my dad. The insurance is 300 dollars per year! They are extremely safe and have been rolled at 140 MPH. The driver walked away and the frame was fine. 5pt belts stock along with crumple zones sounds safe to me.

Stormer, the spec racer is the one we are loking at. It is a bit safer and includes a full roll bar and a fuel cell. I don't know though, it is still in the planing stages. If you ever see one in person, your jaw will drop. They are UNBELIEVABLE!

Posted by: stormer94---------------------

Does, look awesome, there is no doubt about that.

Posted by: Patman---------------------

Kawie my point was there is a VERY strong chance the car WILL see some time in the body shop. Why have a repair on a TIG'ed frame and glass panels by a specialized shop when most shops can do unibody repairs reasonably. Kids wreck cars plain and simple, boy or girl it really doesn't matter. First vehicles get damaged so make it cheap to repair or replace.

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

point understood totally. I thought in your first post that you meant that it was not a safe car. Now I understand where you are coming from!

I would CRY if I built one of these with sweat and tears and some kid crashed it on me. It would be a shame. That is why when I build one for my dad, I will rarely drive it. I will be WAY to scared to.

Posted by: Whoops---------------------

I built and raced a kit car in the SCCA back in the 80s. You will learn things about cars that you never imagined. For instance, I had no intention or interest in repairing or fabricating fiberglass, but actually became quite skilled. Car set up alignment etc... is a big deal if you don't get it right. Your on you own with maintenance, not because of exotic parts, but the combinations of parts. It's hard to find a rounded enough mechanic that can work on your unique car. Knowing what I know, I cannot imagine give my kids a kit car as their first vehicle. I barely have enough time to work on the dirt bikes much less a kit car.

The other thing is saftey and reliability. Yeah, a tube frame is probably a good start but, will the seat stay fastend to the frame after big impact?. Is the driver compartment sealed off from catastrophic engine or transmission failiure? Are the brakes reliable without constand service? Will stuff start flying around in the driver compartment during contact? Collapsable steering column? What about fire?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to figure out all that stuff. The funnest street car I ever drove was a Cobra kit car. I just wouldn't give one to a teenager.

Greg

Posted by: Jeff Gilbert---------------------

I know a kid will more than likely at least ding:scream: the first car they get and I do want it to be safe. I haven't done much research on the kit car thing yet but I had in mind, when this 1st came about, to buy an old bug and throw a cooler looking body on it much the way a fiber glass dune buggy is built. I was hoping that a kit like the MG would leave space for some side panel reinforcment but maybe it doesn't. The Countach would be killer to drive around but for the expence regarding material & labor I seriously doubt that's goona happen.

Maybe on second thought I should consider a Checker or a 64 belaire :D
Oh my goosh, just had a terrible thought, the Checker has way too big of a back seat. I guess she could just take the trails to where ever she needs to go and keep her motorcycle.

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Okay guys. NOBODY has commented on this, so I will.
Is "starting" a kit car build "experience"? No.
Is "hearing of this guy, and hearing of that guy, etc" "experience"? No.
Until you've done one yourself, from start to finish, well, you ain't done it...:silly:

I'm telling YOU from personal experience, it's a HUGE hassle, as people up there have inferred. As far as the price: 15 Grand? Give me a break--

Kit: 10990 (frame,box/shell,partial interior, lights, some wiring)--that's IT!
Donor car: 3000
Freshen a LAME ASS 5.0 Motor--1500. (magnaflux block/heads--new guides,seals,rings, MAYBE pistons, MAYBE .030 bore, MAYBE new crank....it goes on and on and on...BELIEVE ME)
OR--new HIPO 460 with "WEBER" FI (Just a lame way of routing multipoint injection through some old weber carb bodies--cannot be driven ANYWHERE)--oh, let's say, 15 grand? 20 grand?
Freshen LAME ASS ford tranny--800
New clutch and t/o bearing: 400
shocks--200
brakes (off the "stang"--new calipers/pads/lines/hoses/master/run discs)--900
A good BAER setup: 2000-3000
Wheels/Tires--Wheels vintique Rallies (like, er, on their "examples") + some high performance radials--about 2500 bones.
Drive shaft modification: 90
Paint: 3000 (at least, you've dumped this much, why not a "House of Pearl" job for 8 grand?)
Inspection: 400
Tax: 5 percent
Shipping: 1000-1500

What's the cost?: The cheap stuff--$25759.00 The good stuff--$50,080.00
AND, you not only end up with a FORD, but you have to do all the @#$%work yourself.:silly:

Posted by: stormer94---------------------

Nephron,

Right on the money.

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