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CRF 450 all that they say it is?

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Posted by: CR500AF---------------------

Saturday when i was getting some parts for my CR 500 i couldnt help looking over at that CRF 450 on the showroom floor. The price tag seems a bit steep for a dirt bike considering in a race my Service Honda CR500AF would smoke it. Honda credit approved me for it and now the salesman keeps calling for me to sign for it and take it home. Is this bike really worth it or are they gonna completely rework it next year and find out that 2002 models had a load of problems being the first year of production? Help me make my decision. CRF450? or keep my 2002 CR 500 aluminum frame?(which was $8,200)Help!


Posted by: crkid---------------------

i say keep the the 500, those AF's are faster and just look sweet


Posted by: Rumpelstiltskin---------------------

With a brand new CR500AF why in the world would you even look at the 450? You got the same thing but with a to die for powerplant.


Posted by: dheard4992---------------------

everyone has an oppinion so i say ride a buddies crf and form your own.i cant imagine anything being more fun than a crf but i have never ridden a service honda.


Posted by: HGaither---------------------

I did not think that the two stroke 500's were being produced for 02. Are they?


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by HGaither
I did not think that the two stroke 500's were being produced for 02. Are they?



Honda is dropping the CR500 in the US but Service Honda will still be producing brand new AF500s for years to come. They purchased a large stockpile of new CR500 engines and parts to facilitate producing and supporting the best big bore two-stroke on the planet.

http://www.servicehonda.com/2002%20...002_cr500af.htm


Posted by: angry jim---------------------

HGaither
Check out Service Honda in the sponsor panel to the left.


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

For those who haven't seen it, here's what a 2002 - AF500 looks like.


Posted by: dheard4992---------------------

darn near as good lookin as my crf


Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Do they use the 250 as a base or the 450 as they are very different and i was wondering which one they went for?Im guessing 250 as its cheaper/more readliy available and has a steeper steering angle, but then wouldnt the 450 chassis be easier to fit the 500 engine into?


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Marcus - Service Honda (AJ actually) starts with a 2002 CR250 frame and they modify the cradle. I was over at Service yesterday and got to see one in the early stages of the build process. It's pretty cool, and the new billet cradle parts are works of art.


Posted by: CR500AF---------------------

I did get the chance to test drive the CRF 450 ( pulling a straight up wheelie in the parking lot scaring the crap out of the salesman) but my 2002 CR 500AF would absolutely destroy this bike in a drag race or on the track. I wouldnt say the same about my 91 CR 500 because the frame and supension feel more like my old 86 XR 250. The only reason i was considering the CRF is because i wasnt sure if it being a four stroke will it have that same dependability that the XR has. I know its not even close to the same design motors but its still a four stroke. I sure hate throwing a top end in the middle of nowhere!But thanks for the posts anymore info would be great especially if you have one. I love my AF but i cant keep both and i need to make a decision by tuesday!


Posted by: Anssi---------------------

The CR500AF is my dream machine (had 2 CR5s, YZ250 and rode dad's 380s a lot), even though I now have a -02 520 SX.

Unless I was uncomfortable with the 5 (if I had a brand new one), I would never go for the little 450 (in a completely different league power-wise, even the 380 is much more brutal than my 520 (let's not forget Dowd's holeshots on a stock one)).


Posted by: CRF ROCKS---------------------

Does the 500 have torque or powerband hp like smaller 2 strokes ,can you describe what the power is like. This I am interested in and have seen no Sevice Hondas in my area.Have any mags. tested the bike.Can it be raced in the vet class at east coast mx.


Posted by: buffmaster---------------------

Stick w/the AF, at least until the CRF has more time on the market. I don't have any experience w/either, but I haven't heard any "O.M.G.!! This bike is soooo awesome!!!!" remarks about the CRF yet. The same can't be said about the AF. If it weren'r for the fact that I absolutely love my bike and am planning on riding it until it dies, then getting a 4-smoke(b/c of our friends, the EPA ), I'd be all over the AF. Well, all that and the money thing. $8200?!?! OUCH!!!!!!:scream:


Posted by: wayneo426---------------------

I wouldnt buy a 450 that everyone said had a "mellow" powerband, compared to what else is out there. Just my .02.


Posted by: Eric82930---------------------

CR500AF
I'm a four stroke fan and am also thinking about buying A crf BUT...
the 500 has more peak horsepower than the 450 and It probably handles the same or better (any opinions?). So is the power of the 500 wearing you out?
If so get the 450. If not keep the 500. Any Idea on the weight of the 500?


Posted by: bschoch---------------------

I would't trade and/or sell your bike for a '02 CRF450, not yet anyway. I am a fan of the 450F but I would suggest giving them a chance to get a production year or two under their belt. It will only get better.

By the way, where do you ride in Myrtle Beach? MB is my hometown and the places I knew about are closed.


Posted by: CR500AF---------------------

Im pretty sure that a stock CR 500 puts out close to 60 hp and the CRF claims 55 but the 500 has tons more torque and hits way harder. I just wish honda switched to producing stock CR 500' s with there own aluminum frame and design. There is still alot of people who love big bore 2 strokes and the CR 500 is as reliable as they come and rebuilds arent even 1/2 as often as a 125 or 250. They really couldve built an awesome bike by putting it in an aluminum frame and giving it a power valve.My opinion.


Posted by: Mudboy---------------------

But won't all of those CR5 motors Service Honda purchased be outdated as the years go by? Oh, wait--I almost forgot--it hasn't changed in 12 years anyway so who cares...


Posted by: Anssi---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by CR500AF
Im pretty sure that a stock CR 500 puts out close to 60 hp and the CRF claims 55 but the 500 has tons more torque and hits way harder.


I'm thinking that the CRF butting out 55 hp is the stuff of dreams.

I had two CR5s, and now have a 520. My dad's 380 surely has less power than the 5s, but the grunt is still way beyond the 520(and I don't think anyone will seriously claim that the CRF makes more power than the 520SX).

If you have the balls and muscle (I don't) no four-stroke will keep up with a big-bore two-stroke on a straightaway.


Posted by: MXN4FUN---------------------

As awesome as the 450 is, I would still rather be riding an open class MX'er if I could. My diminishing skills and slowing reflexes suit the 450 much better. I still have an old open bike in the garage that I take out and occassionally ride to remember the good old days.....One other suggestion, if you like to pound out miles in whoops or sand stick with the 500AF. The 450 allows a person to ride faster while the 500 will make you go faster whether you want to or not...... just fall back on the throttle and WOOOHOOOO!


Posted by: CR500AF---------------------

My 91 CR 500 is still about 8 lbs. lighter than the CRF. Not sure what my CR 500 AF weighs but i know its lighter.


Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Even though I'm a dyed in the wool thumper guy, I say keep the 500AF. No matter what, you've got a bike with much better resale value (just ask Okie!), so you'll be able to afford a CRF later on down the road if you still wish. I say ride that AF for a while and have some fun!


Posted by: Greg M---------------------

Has anyone ever seen a KTM 520 and a CR or KX 500 in a good drag race?

I would be interested to see how much faster one is than the other. At least at the GP level, the two strokes aren't competitive with four strokes. This has been going on for some time and is not just because of environmental issues with dirty two strokes. Back in the early nineties when Husaberg and Husky began winning GP's on their four strokes they were competing against factory two strokes so there must be some advantage. If not absolute HP, then maybe rideability for 45 minutes straight.

FWIW.

Greg M


Posted by: crutch---------------------

cr500af is about 10 pounds heaver then a stock cr250. i have had a cr500af seence we started making them and ther is nothing out ther that even comes close to the way the bike performes.i did by a crf450 this year and i think it will make me a better rider because you can coner a lot faster. if you have one of the 2002 af500s keep it for a year because they do hold ther value.so what ever way you go you should be happy.


Posted by: BigBore---------------------

Some numbers.

CR500: 55hp
KTM 520: 52hp (I've seen it dyno as much as 54.8)
CRF450R: 48 or 49hp (thats from the new DIRT RIDER, so take it for whatever thats worth).


Posted by: 380EXCman---------------------

I would put my 550 4-stroke against a 500 2-stroke anyday..... especially out in the desert.

CR500AF - I say keep the AF. But your the one who has to decide.

I think my signature says it all.......................


Posted by: AJ Waggoner---------------------

The AF's are made from 02 CR250 chassis and it
is 7 pounds heavier than a CR250 when complete.
It certainly makes a lot more peak HP than a 450 and 2 stroke delivery is "quicker" than a 4 stroke .
So the AF is lighter and faster in a drag race.

It would all come down to personal taste and what you liked riding the most.
The AF is a great bike, so is the 450
and a zillion other models out there..
the bike for you is the one that puts the biggest smile on your face.

To those asking what mags thew AF has been tested in..
Dirt rider , MXracer, Transworld MX ,Cycle News,
and in europe MOTOX mag .
Basically tested every year in thoise magz since 1998.
Ask the mags what month for what year for back issues??

and you will see the 02 CR500AF tested in march's Dirt Rider and april's Trans world MX


Posted by: jski---------------------

Well here is my opinion for what its worth. I have a 00 CR-500 with the only mod being an FMF silencer, riding buddy has a 00 YZ-426, other buddy has the 450F. We ride mostly desert and dunes and I have ridden both the other bikes and the 500 suits me the best both for my riding style and the feel of the bike. We all have also raced up sand mountain here in Utah and on the flats, I can easily beat both in the hillclimb but on the flats its close. All three bikes are great bikes and I like certain things about each bike. Having never ridden the AF I would think that the AF would give you the best of both worlds.


Posted by: Antman---------------------

Lets not forget, The CRF450 runs in the 250 class and is not at all as an open class bike. I would not even compare it to a 500. The fact that it is getting compared is testament to how great it really is. I bought an '02 CR250 when it first came out. I rode a buddys CRF450 on the weekend after it came out. I had a 450 the following weekend and my CR250 was sold by the following weekend. As far as comparing a stock CR250 to a stock CRF450, the 450 is way easier to ride well and inspires more confidence. It also has less vibration and I can ride it harder, longer with less fatigue. It is heavier than the 250 but that does not take away the fun factor. If you are drag racing or into open class, I am sure the 500 is the choice. If you want to rule the 250 class, the CRF450 is a good way to go.:D


Posted by: Greg M---------------------

I hope you got good money for you 2002 CR250. That is pretty quick turnaround.

Greg Matty


Posted by: Antman---------------------

I lost a little, but the 450 was worth it. I actually loved the CR250 as well, but as my CRF was staying in the living room until I sold my CR.... Well, lets just say my wife wanted other presents to fit under the Christmas Tree.


Posted by: CRF ROCKS---------------------

The AF 500 is in the same class as a 250 if racing in the vet class.I was perfectly happy with my CRF 450 until I read these posts and found out about the RED MONSTER.Wanting every advantage I can get as an aging moto xer I sent for info and may purchase this machine.


Posted by: Greg M---------------------

If a 500 two stroke is an advantage for you, then you should leave the vet class and race the GP's in Europe.

Greg M


Posted by: thorman75---------------------

stock cr500s,cr500af,kx500s,610 huskies,xr600s,490 maicos,440 ktms,390 huskies,rm400s,rm370s and even a tm400 suzuki.open bikes are all about the same thing.the cr500af (wardys bike)that i borrowed for the grass race at red bud was the most fun id had in a long time.i told service forget the cr450 i want a af.its in the garage right now.p.s. thanks eric for all the glue,95 all over again.if ajs legs will get healed.


Posted by: Offroadr---------------------

off topic....

Killing any birds Bill?


Posted by: thorman75---------------------

yeah ive got some pheasants,deer season was a total flop,although the kid took 2 with his bow,someone apparently shot my springer,now hes gunshy and wont go in the field anymore.besides this weather,most things went wrong this year,now im looking for another springer,female puppy.


Posted by: rollingp---------------------

My 01 520 sx stock motor but with a 50 tooth rear sprocket
out hole shotted a 92 gsxr750 and the hit a top speed of 82 mph on a fresh road with knobs.
The 520 was three bike lenghts ahead for the first 60 ft.
I had a hard time keeping the front end down.
The 750 overtook me but thats pretty good results for a mx bike.
This summer I plan for the heck of it putting on some street tires lowering the bike and fabricating a wheelie bar.
I also will gear it up.
I bet this bike will do even better with the ability to launch it hard.
The rider of the zuk used to drag race so he was impressed.


Posted by: srgnz---------------------

In response to your "reliable like the XRs?" question... I read that Honda recommend replacing the piston in the CRF at 15hours :scream:


Posted by: Bob Brooks---------------------

I'm entering this thread late, but as most others have responded, this decision is all a matter of personal preference. But since you asked for advice and opinions, I will offer mine, for whatever it's worth. I rode a CRF450 a few weeks ago and to be completely honest, I wasn't overly impressed. I liked the ergonomics of the bike and the feel of it, but in my opinion, it felt slow compared to a YZ426 or an open class two-stroke. I don't even think it felt as fast as a 250cc two-stroke motocrosser. The power delivery is very mellow and smooth, which certainly might be a good thing in terms of rideability. I'm sure the bike is faster than it felt to me. Smooth power delivery is usually a deceptive thing. The bike probably isn't much slower than a 426 or a two-stroke, but it certainly "felt" like it to me from a seat-of-the-pants comparison. My opinion is that at this time, the bike is over-hyped. I think it's a very nice motorcycle and I wouldn't mind owning one myself, but I don't feel like it's the most impressive machine on the market today. I believe the 426 is still the four-stroke motocross king at this point, and my suggestion would be to keep the AF. The AF will no doubt be faster and probably lighter, and I agree with some of the other posts that the resale will be better. Besides that, the AF is unique and different. With all the hype of the CRF this year, a whole lot of dirt riders in this country are clamouring to own that bike and they'll be popping up everywhere. If you like the rush of power and all of that arm-tugging pull of the 500 two-stroke, I think you'll be disappointed with the CRF. Either way, you can't lose. That's just my opinion, good luck with the decision.


Posted by: Max Factor---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by Greg M
Has anyone ever seen a KTM 520 and a CR or KX 500 in a good drag race?

I would be interested to see how much faster one is than the other


I have a 520 EXC stripped down to all SX components (except with a starter motor ) Pro Circuit Pipe and re-jet. I ride every weekend with my brother who has a '97 CR 500 (pro cirtcuit pipe / silencer and re-jet) and my last bikes before the 520 were a 380 mxc and a KX 500 before that.

My impression is that the 520 sticks with the CR everywhere in the power stakes, except the lightning quick reposnse the 2 strokes have. It makes the CR 500 feel quicker, but it's barely marginal. I find the 520 so much quicker and easier to ride fast because you're not continuously trying to hold the back end in line out of corners.


Posted by: yz250-effer---------------------

For instance, the 2 new crf 450 owners that I know have both had problems. One - the rear wheel almost fell apart after 3 hours of riding. Way out of true to say the least. Luckily he was able to have it trued before it went too far.

Also, the next owner was startint to adjust his chain when the left chain adjuster block broke. ( thin sections that hold the axle in place!) Well, when that happens, there is no way to get the axle nut off - no way to hold it. I did not get a good look at the situation, but they knew what they were doing and they had to cut the axle - and they tried an air impact wrench too. It looks like some aftermarket chain adjuster block are needed here, and I have heard the 250's are the same way.

I am just kind of concerned about some of those fragile parts they created when they shaved the weight down to 7-9 pounds of a 250F. I did ride one tho, and the power is very quick revvin and electric and the bike handled very well. Good suspension and power. As long as no majopr bugs show up in the first year, I would take one over a 426. An aluminum framed cr500? Probably not, but I have not ridden one of those pup's yet, so hard to say for sure.


Posted by: huntmaster---------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by CR500AF
Im pretty sure that a stock CR 500 puts out close to 60 hp and the CRF claims 55 but the 500 has tons more torque and hits way harder.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm thinking that the CRF butting out 55 hp is the stuff of dreams.
______________________________________________________

"Ad copy" horsespower is always higher, and generally uses figures measured at the crankshaft vs thr rear wheel. In either case the, the difference here is still 5 horse @ 55hp and 50hp respectively for the two bikes. Honda says (60 and 55) Still, traction is the great equalizer, and having experience on open two strokes and 4-strokes, a smooth delivering 50 hp thumper often can and will hook up better then a hard hitting 55 hp 2 stroke ,and ulitimately can be the faster bike.

Doug


Posted by: Antman---------------------

Quote:
For instance, the 2 new crf 450 owners that I know have both had problems. One - the rear wheel almost fell apart after 3 hours of riding. Way out of true to say the least. Luckily he was able to have it trued before it went too far.


This first problem is operator error. One should always check spokes before you ride and after when you are cleaning the bike. I found that aluminum nipples do get looser faster, but one just have to be aware. I did have the spokes get loose after the first few rides and this is normal. As for The second problem I have never heard about until now. This is not a typical problem if you read all the posts at Thumpertalk.com regarding the 450. I have had one minor problem with the 450 (linkage nut stripping), but nothing I could not sort out. Sorting out little problems and dialing the bike in is fun for me. My RM125 was much more of a maintenance problem (seized crank, broken power valve). Time will tell if the weight savings is a reliability penalty for the 450. Still, I find the quality and fit and finish first rate on my 450. I know there are always exceptions. My .02


Posted by: theMotoMan---------------------

I made the switch from a '01 YZ250F to a '02 YZ250 2-stroke. I ended up switching back. I learned my lesson about buying a bike without really riding one on a race track. This is especially true when you are going from 2-stroke to 4-stroke or visa versa. My advice is to find someone with your desired bike and test ride it in the environment that you intent to use it in.



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