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Four Stroke Suzuki at outdoor nationals
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Posted by: Seth_88---------------------
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/12fe...fourstroke.html
Wonder if this will be a new bike, or based on the DRZ?
Posted by: JAMRACING---------------------
If it's based on the DR-Z, they are in BIG trouble...Hell, maybe Honda should bring their XR400 back into the battle, and Spud Walters can ride it 
Posted by: weekendtoy---------------------
DRZ=trailbike-- XR=trailbike ,I see your still into the bike bashing business.
Posted by: JAMRACING---------------------
Bike bashing?? I guess you didn't catch the drift of this post! Spud walters raced an XR400 (actually an XR440) in motocross, and did quite well.
When Seth_88 posted the question "Wonder if this will be a new bike, or based on the DRZ?", I just couldn't resist. I guess humor is an aquired taste.
Posted by: PeteN---------------------
Spud did well, but that was in the four stroke series, not the AMA 250 pro class! I've never seen an XR in the pro series.
What was the highest placing WR in the WORCS series??? DRZs were 1,2,3!!! and that was on tracks with Moto-X sections! And the Kied just won again in the first round of 2002 in Pheonix last weekend and don't give me that crap about the bike being wildly modified, Ty's WR ain't no stocker either! By the way, Davis' old reliable Yam spit the bit again in the Pheonix race!!!
I think the Suzuki will be competitive, even if it is based on the DRZ! 
Posted by: JAMRACING---------------------
And you probably won't see a DR-Z in the nationals either...
The fact that Keidrowski won the title had very little to do with the bike. Shane Watts proved that many times before (actually, keidrowski's first year racing GNCC was horrible, and now he runs an RM250 in that series).
So what you're saying is that the Yamahas are not reliable? Wow, that's a first.
Anyway, as far as bike bashing, I have owned every brand of Japanes bike (two and four strokes), and I liked them all (hell, I rode a 1985 DR 600, and spanked the then new DR 350's). It all comes down to who has the best bang for their buck, and this year it happens to be the WR426. Next year it might be a CRF250, KTM 450, or KX250.
I see this as closed.
JAMRACING, the bike hater...Here are most of my victims :whiner:
1985 Suzuki DR600, 1993 DR650, 1984 TS185, 1994 GSXR750
1992 Honda XR600R, 1996 XR400R, 1992 CBR600F2, 1991 NSR250RR-SP
1995 Kawasaki KX250, 1999 KX250, 1978 KZ1000Z1-R
1999 Yamaha YZ400F, 2001 WR426F, 1987 FZR1000R, 1990 RZ350
Posted by: weekendtoy---------------------
Jamracing your point is well taken.My apologies for the snide remarks.In the past you have been mighty partial in your posts.I reread the original post and you did not not drag anything into it that was not already there.I'm stepping up to the plate on this one I apologize.
Posted by: BigBore---------------------
It couldn't be that hard to build a production MX bike based on the DR-Z. First off, you take the DR-Z motor and get rid of the electric start. Between the starter, battery, wiring and such, thats gotta be good for about a 20lb weight loss. Get rid of the lighting coil, head and tail light, kickstand, odometer, etc., you get the idea. Maybe use a lighter MX-only exhaust system. After all that, I'd bet the bike would be pretty close to the weight of the 426. What about the motor? From what I've heard, it puts out about 40hp in stealth stock trim. Whats a 426 make, 46, 47hp? It couldn't be that hard to squeeze more power out of it, espeically if displacement is increased. Ok, so, what next......maybe swap out the fork for an inverted unit. Whip up some RM-style body work, and bingo.
What d'ya think?
Posted by: Natester---------------------
Pete, Ty was riding a YZ250 at the WORCS race. Just thought I'd mention that so the YZF's rep isn't further tarnished. 
Posted by: Starwest #9---------------------
I just hope Suzuki put a good strong effort toward the four stroke program and is able to offer the RM450F amd 250F at the same time so to compete in a class dominated by four strokes offered by honda and yamaha.
Posted by: JAMRACING---------------------
I think creating a motocross bike out of a trail bike is a little more involved than just ripping out electrics and swapping out suspension. However, BBR did up a pretty sweet motocross version of a DR-Z (the suspension alone was around $20,000). Actually, looking back, Yamaha made a motocross bike out of a XT500...What was my point again:confused:
Posted by: PeteN---------------------
JAM, I'm not sure I would say "very little to do with the bike", the bike had to be fairly competitive in that group of riders to win, but your point is taken. I don't hate Yams, my last bike was a WR500 and it was stone reliable, vibrated like hell, but reliable. I do know that Ty blew up some big bored YZF/WRs trying to stay with KX500s in the des. I think that the DRZ chassis is not going to work in MX, but the engine has a lot of potential. BBR spends $20K on mini bike suspensions! They are the Bimota of dirt bikes!
Natester, I did not know that was a YZ250, but I think tha problems with the four strokes may be why he switched.:mad:
Posted by: Natester---------------------
Pete, I think you're right. I love the YZFs, but I think at the level Ty rides them they're probably not as reliable as they would be for guys like us. When I had my 400F it was faster than I wanted to go, but I know Davis regularly bumps his off the rev limiter. Plus, his is geared way higher than mine was-SCARY!
Posted by: JAMRACING---------------------
Actually, after owning a WR500, I would probably frown at Yamahas...
Ty Davis has raced YZ-250's for so many years, he just feels comfortable with them (which is why Keidrowski did better after going back to the RM250). As far as dez races, the YZ/WR426 wouldn't be the prime candidate. Based on YZ250 dimensions (steep rake, short wheelbase) and having such a high strung motor, I would choose a XR650R before Baja'ing my WR.
As far as the rider/bike equation, I still think the bike is a very small part. At last year's GNCC in Florida, Wattsy lapped me going into the dirt track, and promptly tossed his stock KTM 200 sideways, and pulled away from my YZ400 like it was anchored down. I could have been on a Knight Rotax racebike, and he still would have run away. Then, Randy Hawkins passed me on a straightaway, on his WR250F. Off on a tangent....
Anyway, When you get as good as Ty Davis, Mike Keidrowski, Fred Andrews, Summers (he's just beyond human, being competitive on a 280 lbs beast), Shane Watts (has won on almost every off-road bike KTM makes, except for their minis) etc... the bike becomes the lesser of the equation, and that's when their incredible talent, fitness, and other things that we'll probably never know, come into play.
Posted by: borsy---------------------
Kiedrowski & the rest of the Suzuki raced the WORC series on the DRZ
they switched to the RM250 when racing the GNCC, Kiedrowski was overall
champion of the WORC series.
Posted by: JAMRACING---------------------
Yes, you are correct. The WORCS series is a "west" style race, and can use the extra top-end power and stability of the DR-Z. The GNCC (east coast race style) can use the lighter and more nimble RM. Either way, Suzuki is loving their guys (Keid won the WORCS, Smith won the GNCC).
Posted by: DualSportr---------------------
In regards to a few comments made here:
1. Ty Davis uses a modified YZF in some races, and the YZ in others. He has had some reliability problems, but only because he's willing to try modifications most other mechanics don't even think about. Also, he really is a privateer (on a professional level!)- try wrenching on your own machines, driving to the race, racing and then packing it up and driving back home . I wouldn't be surprised if he did his own laundry too. Amazing what some champs have to do to keep going! The Kied and the rest of Suzuki team riders are receiving unparalleled support from Suzuki - this goes a long way towards making wins happen!
2. If Ty ran the Yamie's because it's the bike he's most familiar with - I think any Kawie fan would be able to easily argue that Ty raced (and won) more events on a Kawasaki than he has on the Yamahas.
3. BBR DID find a way to make the DRZ competitive. They stuck a YZF engine in their modified chassis. This is the combination which received the best results (with Rich Taylor as rider in the Four Stroke Nationals) - until Suzuki figured out what was going on an pulled the plug on the project...permanently.
Don't get me wrong - the DRZ is a great engine. It's just not designed to be a motocrosser. However, it serves its purpose for enduro style riding better than most of the competition.
Posted by: JAMRACING---------------------
Yes, Ty Davis is a semi-privateer, but he's several light years from the boxvan-driving-all-night-race-in-your-pajamas kind of guy. I've seen his rig too, and I would kill for that kind of privateer backing (seriously, this thing was as trick as anything I've seen)! Also, I think he's been on YZ's long enough to call him a Yamaha guy.
I almost forgot about the 426 motor in DRZ chassis debacle...That was pretty funny. Didn't they try to mask the side covers as DR-Z covers?
Posted by: PeteN---------------------
Why would you do such a thing? The DRZ chassis is OK, but I can't imagine it has any advantage over the YZF, well maybe quicker steering? The DRZ requires suspension mods for even fast trail riding with an adult size rider. The engine seems easier to make MX competitive than the chassis. Why not just run a YZF? It would seem easier to modify the steering angle on the YZF than bolt a YZF engine into the DRZ. BBR makes wonderful stuff, but I don't get this? :silly:
Posted by: DualSportr---------------------
Quote:
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I almost forgot about the 426 motor in DRZ chassis debacle...That was pretty funny. Didn't they try to mask the side covers as DR-Z covers?
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Yea, I think the chassis was the same as the one they'd been campaigning for Suzuki (not a DRZ chassis entirely, of course) - the plastics and graphics were all 'Zook.
Funny thing was, no one noticed for a few races. Only after MXA developed a few pictures ('hey, why does it say Yamaha on that side cover???') was the cat let out of the bag.
I think it was a reaction to a frustrating situation, and a statement, more than a real answer to a problem. But it definitely got the point across to the guys at Suzuki!
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