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Chest Protectors and Collar Bone Coverage
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Posted by: Sawblade---------------------

It's time to replace my tired and well used HRP chest protector. I'm looking for a chest protector that covers the collar bone and offers some shoulder protection. I have broke my left collar bone three times, and dislocated my right shoulder to many times to count. A few incidents of both have been with the current HRP chest protector. If I had to choose between less protection, it would be for the shoulder. I wear Fox riding gear. So, I would like to go with the Fox Airframe, but I'm concerned about the strap that holds the front and shoulder pieces together, and the lack of protection in this area. This seems to be the case with most chest protectors. Little or no coverage over the collar bone, right wear I've broken it. I'm not so style conscious that I will not buy another brand of chest protector other then Fox. So, what other brand offers the most protection over the collar bone? I've looked on the net at Thor's Aftershock, and MSR's System X chest protectors. Both appear to offer more protection over the collar bone because they do not have the adjustment strap like the Fox Airframe. Is this correct, or is the piece between the front and shoulder piece only a foam type material with no protection? What other brands would everyone recommend?

Regards,
Sawblade

Posted by: OldMaiconut---------------------

I wear an Airframe. There is an adjustment where the straps from the shoulder pads to the front piece attaches. I wear mine adjusted out one position to get the shoulder pads out where I want them. There is some protection for the collarbone, but its not fully covered. I just tried mine on now. I think that if you had full collarbone protection, it would choke you out with a helmet on. You might be able to add some closed cell foam on the inside like Craig_Enid did because of a rib injury.

Posted by: Miltonyz---------------------

I have heard that the collar bone is the most commonly broken bone. In an anatomy class we learned that one of the reasons for this is it's setup. It is in between two fairly solid bones. It also has a bend in it. I believe that most of the time the bone is broken when you fall on your side and the shock transmits through your shoulder to your collar bone. The bend in the collar bone makes it easier for the bone to break at that point. I think unless you go headfirst at a tree and catch it in the collar bone area those top pads do not do anything for you. The pads on your arm don't stop the shock from being transmitted. Right now I don't belive there is anything that you can where to significantly reduce the risk of collar bone breakage.

Posted by: nikki---------------------

I've broken a collarbone too

and ever since, good collarbone protection became very important to me. I broke mine while wearing an OLD JT plastic roost deflector with NO padding. My fiancé broke his a few years ago wearing no chest protector.

I wear the Fox Airframe and a PCS Neck Support System now. The Airframe has good padding on the top of the shoulder and the PCS N.S.S. protects the "gap" that you are talking about. Also the PCS will help portect from broken collarbones caused from hitting it with the chin of your helmet. (Plus it will protect you in a lot of other situations). Here is a photo from the PCS website ( www.promotorcyclesafety.com ) of the combo that I wear.

Posted by: MXP1MP---------------------

I wear a fox airframe good chest protector, I personally perfer chest protectors that don't hace hard or as very little hard plastic running accross the collarbone. I heard this is one of the problems with broken collar bones but its not a proven fact anyways. I 2nd the pcs racing neck support I got one after a nasty spill during the ax season. EVS makes one also but it sucks in comparison its a "floating" like design and it go's around you whole neck and its only held in place by a velcro strap. The PCS one ties to your chest protector to the front and the rear and its very stable and the front of your neck area is still open. Side to side movement is not restricted at all, but what I like best is that my head doesn't snap around or jolt forward and back anymore and after a race my neck is much less sore. I've even taken a spill with it and if I didn't have it on I know for fact I would of gotten ALOT worse soreness in my neck from whip lash. I won't ride without it anymore and feel like a fool for not getting one earlier.

Posted by: Smit-Dog---------------------

I agree with Miltonyz. I broke my collar bone after hitting a large tree that had fallen across a trail, just beyond a blind corner. I came flying around the corner, hit the tree, then went sailing about 25 feet, landing first on my outstretched arm. The force and resulting leverage snapped my collar bone.

No amount amount of direct chest and/or collar bone protection will prevent this type of break, and this the most common way to break a collar bone. This is also a frequent injury in downhill skiing, when people attempt to break a fall with their outstretched arm. It's a natural reaction when you are sent flying. Instead of the arm breaking, the leverage breaks the more supseptable collar bone.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe in wearing protection, it's just that the collar bone is broken easily.

Hope this helps....

- Bill

Posted by: anton---------------------

My viewpoint is slightly different. Most breaks that I have seen could be caused by the helmet itself. Next time with helmet on, bend your head similar to falling off and you will see that the edge of the bottom of helmet directly hits your collarbone. It is thus the helmet that plays a part and not neccesarily the outstretched hand.
My sollution is to wear a rugby padded shoulder and collarbone vest under the protector. The theory is that the padding between helmet and bone will prevent breakage.
Anton

Posted by: Smit-Dog---------------------

Anton,

Good point that I hadn't considered. Wish that I could watch the slo-mo video footage of my crash to see what happened and re-live it in all it's gory detail.

I will also check out the neck protection system that Nikki mentioned (although their web site seems to be down at the moment).

- Bill

Posted by: KiwiBird---------------------

My collarbone was broken by my helmet, I've got a PCS neck collar now and it will hopefully stop that from happening again.

Posted by: Sawblade---------------------

Nikki,
Thanks for the link. Is the PCS system a hard foam type of material, or is it soft? Does the PCS system make it hard to put the chest protector one? And finally, do you notice the weight of the PCS system?

Anton,
Good point. Never really considered that point. The first collar bone break I went over the bars and augured my shoulder into a good sized whoop. Broke the shoulder piece of the chest protector I was wearing at the time.

Thanks to everyones comments. Go stuff!

Posted by: nikki---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Sawblade
Nikki,
Thanks for the link. Is the PCS system a hard foam type of material, or is it soft? Does the PCS system make it hard to put the chest protector one? And finally, do you notice the weight of the PCS system?

Sawblade - here is a good thread to check out for more info:
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/sh...&highlight=neck

Also Amy at MX in the US did a good comparison article on the PCS neck pad and the EVS one at www.mxintheus.com

But to answer your questions - PCS uses a hard foam material. It has a little give to it, though. The only time I notice it in regards to my chest protector is when I take my CP off. It kinda gets in the way but nothing major at all. Just have to turn the CP a little

And I have never noticed the weight - they are very light. I would guess less than a pound for sure. The only time I really notice the PCS brace is if I shrug my shoulders a little or if I crash :confused: You can also have them cut down to different sizes.

Posted by: Sawblade---------------------

Will I went to one of the local bike shops today and was supprised to see they have the PCS system in stock. After eveyones posted positive comments and looking at their website I was going to order one with the new chest protector. After seeing one for myself and taking it out of the package I wasn't that impressed. It looks like a quality made item. But for a dense foam/rubber type material with strings attached to it. Its overpriced IMO. I think the PCS system could help in a nasty fall by reducing head wip action. But for the type of increased coverage over the collar bone I'm looking for. I'm unsure if it would provide coverage that would disperse a impact to decrease the possiblity of breaking a collar bone. Can anyone convince me otherwise? I guess it comes down to someone needs to invent a better mouse trap. :think

Posted by: KXCam---------------------

I am also a dual collarbone breaker. When I compare the collarbone protection given by my old circa 1978 Jofama shoulder pads and my new Acerbis roost body armor, the shoulder pads win hands down. I am not sure that the designers of the latest types of body armour design for impact protection rather than looks. I do like the spine coverage of the body armour but think they could do much better around the shoulder area. I guess you go with what you beleive in, so for my kids & wife I use Joffama hockey shoulder pads which I have modified with spine protection.

Posted by: Jasle---------------------

Expensive? They are less than $40. If your store is charing more then buy from the website. We tried the EVS one and the PCS one. We found the PCS one to be WAY better! The EVS one seems to rotate and is really a PITA. We just found something else this weekend and are getting one installed. Its from FIT-Tech MX safety. He removes the webbing from your chest protector. Then he installs this high density foam insert that has front, back and shoulder coverage. It kinda like the foam used in the neckrolls a football player might wear. High density stuff. not too soft not too hard. You can attach your PCS neck brace to it or he also has those. I don't know of a web site but his name is Keith Randel. 623-846-0888 Our kids race together and quite a few of the racers at the track wear them. I can update better once we get ours installed. The Mini size is around $60.
Really for the cost <$100 I feel the padding is really improved over any chest plate I have seen. Most of them have only skimply padding with cheezy webbing as protection. Also I have talked to two of the neck protector manufacturers and they are convinced that most of the collar bones breakages are caused by the snap of the neck and helmet hitting the bone. It only takes something like 14-17 pounds of force to break the collar bone. Also the neck braces really help during hard landings. really redueces any side to side flopping and at least 1/2 the front to back flopping without making it hard to turn your head.
Seen a lot of cart drivers wearing them too.
Jason

Posted by: TooTall---------------------

I think you all are making the roost protector responsible for 'crash' protection as well. They offer ROOST protection first & foremost. If you expect to avoid a collar bone or shoulder injury by wearing a roost shield, you are way wrong. In fact, some of the manufacterers (Fox, for example) will state in it's literature that the device offers no crash protection. I have broken my collar bone while wearing Fox's "Roost 2" protector and I can tell you that NO protector would/could have prevented it. Will I stop wearing it because of that? NO! I like the protection it offers, but I certainly don't think it will save a collar bone break or other shoulder injury.

TT

Posted by: Whoops---------------------

I was wearing an Airframe when I broke my collar bone. The way my sawbones ( that's my orthopedic surgeon for the uninitiated ) expained it is the most common to break a collar bone is a hard landing on your shoulder which compresses the clavical which snaps from the pressure. That means, in order to be protected, you'd have to keep the clavical from compressing. I can't think of a saftey device that does this. The neck protection is good for a lot of reasons but it won't keep the collar bone from compressing.

Whoops

Posted by: tchamberlain---------------------

I can't qoute the source and it probably wouldn't matter, but I read that 80% of collar bone breaks are caused by the helmet hitting the bone. I know that the place where I broke mine lines up perfectly with the edge of my helmet when I tilt my head sideways. I thought about putting one of those football neck pads on my chest protector because they are the exact same thing as what EVS makes but for $10-15.

Posted by: Whoops---------------------

Tim,

Just quoting the doctor. Anyway, my point was that a chest protector doesn't prevent broken collar bones since I was wearing a chest protector when I broke mine.

Whoops

Posted by: Jasle---------------------

I thought of the football neckroll too. Problem is around here I could not find one at the store as we were buying when it was not football season. also take a look at what Davi Milsaps wears. He pads the base of his helmet. It looks like pipe insulation zip tied to the helmet. Supposedly for collarbones too. I have heard close to the same numbers for the helmet causeing the collar bone breaks.
also I am leary of anything the Doc says. They only seem to think your safe if your off of a bike period. "NO SAFETY GEAR CAN SAVE YOU' is basically what I have heard from them.
Jason

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Good read, thanks to all.

Posted by: Whoops---------------------

Jasle,

Hold on there partner. My sawbones is a hero. I'm on two legs because he knows his business. His obsevation about collar bones was made in general without reference to motorcycles. Skiers, bicyclist, and roller bladers all generate enough momentum to snap a collar bone when a shoulder impacts an immovable object. Don't let your mistrust of doctors get in the way of reasoned thought.

Whoops

Posted by: tchamberlain---------------------

Whoops,
You are right. Chest protectors don't and cannot prevent collar bone breaks. I was wearing one when I broke mine too. The neck roll deal seems to offer some protection against one kind of impact, but nothing can protect the collar bone from the impacts when we land on our shoulders. Tonight's racing night, so I have a lot to do. See ya

Posted by: Smit-Dog---------------------

I am currently recovering from a collarbone break (my second one, same side

) that I suspect was caused by my helmet digging into the bone. I had a Thor AfterShock chest protector, but there is a gap that I plan on protecting on future rides with a foam neck/clavical protector. Duh, should of had one already.

I know that there doesn't appear to be any type of protective gear available for the side-of-shoulder impact that causes collarbone breaks. My question is, do the big shoulder pads that football and hockey players wear protect them against side impacts well enough to prevent CB breaks after a hard tackle or body check?

I really don't want to break another CB, and want to take every precaution necessary. Since it doesn't take much of a side impact, why don't more football and hockey players break theirs?

Thanks!

Posted by: CO Dan---------------------

I'm sure that CPs do a good job of roost protection.

I think we all rely on them to protect the chest area from logs and rocks when we fall too, and I suspect the hard shell does a pretty good job of that.

But why can't the shoulder armor be tougher, something that might actually protect a collar bone? Something half-way between a football pad and what we've got now.

I don't think manufacturers are very innovative.

Posted by: lawman---------------------

i broke mine while not wearing a c/p. near as i can tell, it was the force of the impact when the top of the shoulder hit the ground. i don't think a c/p or neck roll would have helped that, but i still wear the c/p (fox airframe) & plan to get the neck roll for other reasons. i bet these are caused by all of the factors listed: side impact, trauma from a tree straight to the bone, impact to the top of the shoulder, & the chin bar of the helmet. i read somewhere that it takes only a few pounds (less than 17 or 18) to break it. a buddy of mine, a physician, wears the pss neck roll & swears by it, but i don't think it would prevent c/b breaks from some of the above causes. the collarbone break is a miserable injury, i wish somebody would figure ut a way to prevent it. for the record, i think the best protection i ever had was the hallman mach V i had in the 80's.

Posted by: flo---------------------

Try the AXO chest protectors, are made from one piece, no straps. I crashed once with another just before landing, my front went on the right side and i hit the ground with ~30 mph, direct with my shoulder (i didn't have time to take the hands of the handlebar) and than with the helmet. The impact was so big that the air holes from the arm protectors were printed on the skin. I was KO also, but the collar bone remains in one piece, the helmet does't hit it. When i tried to take my bike from the ground, a Suzuki landed with it's front wheel direct on my back (it was one of the fast guys) and bend the wheel. They tooked me out from the circut, i couldn't move but no back injury, only muscle pain. So don't tell me that chest protectors are only for ROOST

Posted by: dirty~d~---------------------

I'd like to see the report that lists helmets as the leading cause of collarbone fractures. That does make sense, but I didn't realize it was such a high percentage. As for roost guards offering anything more than roost protection, that is a farse. They are designed to protect you from objects (rocks, sticks, tree limbs, etc.) when they strike your body, not when you strike the ground. Their design is to prevent contact injuries (bruises, cuts, etc.) You take apart a chest protector and then tell me how it's supposed to prevent fractures and dislocations. Don't go out there thinking it will. You'll give yourself a false sense of security. Bottom line is this is a brutal sport and there is no for sure way to prevent major injuries to the joints and bones from happening. My advice??? Keep the bike upright and stay on!

Oh, and I liked my Fox Airframe. I may just buy another.

Posted by: dirty~d~---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Smit-Dog

Since it doesn't take much of a side impact, why don't more football and hockey players break theirs?

Thanks!

Bottom line... they condition for taking hits like that. They occassionally do get fractures and dislocations, but at the same time the opportunity to sustain those kinds of injuries does not happen as often as you might think. I've been playing full contact ice hockey for 10 years and I have experienced one minor shoulder dislocation. I'm a 5-5 125 chica... padding wouldn't have prevented it.

Posted by: joey26---------------------

one time I went off a jump and landed on my shoulder and didn't have a chest protector on and I didnt even get a bruse or cut. Guess I was lucky.

Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

I can understand how a CP will help to a small degree with an impact similar to that of a football player. Football payers do not have a whole lot of side protection but they do not really need it as most impacts are frontal when a large degree of force is encountered. The Idea of the helmet breaking your collar bone without having a serious neck injury is ridiculous IMO. A neck roll will only help by limiting the range of motion of the neck. Have you ever noticed how even a proper fitting helmet fits a kid? It comes down closer to the neck! Hence the pading on Milsap's helmet. I can see no rational how anyone in there right (or left) mind would think a chest protector would offer much in the way of serious protection ( as they are currently desinged.)? They can be a great comfort against roost, rocks and getting jousted by tree's. Just think about it people. Truly, you should have known! :confused: ---Mike

Posted by: Smit-Dog---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by ssuperbike
... Truly, you should have known! :confused: ---Mike

It's not that I expected the chest protector to prevent a collarbone break, it's that I am trying to determine what protective devices are out there that MAY help prevent them. Consider the gear we have available to us compared to 25 years ago. How protected/confident would you feel wearing an open face helmet with at most a little plastic Scott mouth guard? :scream: There is always room for improving what's available today. Think how many ACL tears Asterisk knee braces will help prevent, gear that was not commonly available even a few years. I'm looking for an Asterisk for collarbones.

I would think that if a chest protector would come in closer around the neck to cover the area where the bottom edge of the helment hits, this would help. A foam neck roll would help even more.

The side impact causes of collarbone breaks is a tougher issue to solve. That's why I asked what football/hockey players wear. While football players have hugh frontal impacts, there are plenty of times where a running back is tackled by a 300lbs guy who crushes the running back down into the ground with more than enough side impact force to snap a collarbone.

If I ran full speed, jumped up in the air and landed on the side of my shoulder, it would be about the same force and speed that snapped my collarbone riding dirt bikes.

Do a search on this site and you realize how common this injury is.

Posted by: ssuperbike---------------------

Truley I should have known!

Football shoulder pads just roll down over the shoulder a bit more. I agree this is a common injury. I have broken my collor bone and have the nasty lump and a dropped shoulder to prove it. I would think that you would not want to wear what you would need in order to prevent a collarbone injury. I am not even a big fan of the chest protector for woods riding but think they rock for moto. I hope you find some answers but a chest protector is not it. ----Mike

Posted by: TooTall---------------------

Well.......after a lot of careful consideration, I ordered PCS Neck Support Systems for my son & me. I had the chance to try the EVS collar on Saturday, but I blew it & forgot. My friend's son was wearing one and as I recall, he complained about having a neckache. What's not clear is if the EVS collar caused his pain. I went with the PCS system because it just looks less restrictive to me. I can't wait to try it!

BTW, Phil at Progressive Motorcycle Safety was extremely helpful in choosing the correct size. Just a really nice guy!!

TT

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Chest Protectors and Collar Bone Coverage

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