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Quality VS Price for O-ring chain
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Posted by: yzeater---------------------

Hey spodes,
I'm in the market for a new chain (I'll be doing sprockets too), and I can't decide what to get. I've decided on a O-ring chain because of the conditions I ride, but I can't bring myself to choose a brand. Should I but the Regina gold O-ring chain (Which I've seen for as low as $55) or go with the renthal (costs more like $100)? These are just two of my many options. What do you think? Is it worth it to pay twice as much? Are all O-ring chains made equal? Thanks a lot
-yzeater

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

I don't know about them all being equal but I have gotten similar service life from a DID, RK, and Renthal o-ring chains. All performed excellent.

Posted by: JohninKY---------------------

I believe Renthal and Regina are made by the same company and may by very similar. I've never had good luck with the Regina Gold O-ring chains. My favorite is the DID X-ring.

But as Senior implied, all the top level chains are probably close in performance. It's hard to get a good unbiased comparison. For example, a chain that I thought was great on my KDX did not last long on my CR.

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Check out Tsubaki before you buy.

Generally speaking, the more ultimate strength the chain lists, the longer it will last. Always go with a chain that has solid, machined bushings and rollers.

Also, I have been running the same Sidewinder chain and sprockets since Jan 01. It is a non-ring chain with stainless sideplates. Chain well within spec. No sign of wear at all on either the chrome-moly front or the aluminum rear. As soon as I wear this puppy out, I will be touting Sidewinder.
Great stuff, Vic! (LOL...NO, I don't use his lube!)

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Jaybird.. Do you ride that thing?

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Okie,
Good question that always gets asked. I replaced the OEM set-up when the bike had almost 10 hrs on it. I replaced the top end after about 50 hrs. (I was quite amazed with that in itself)
I have a bit less than ten hours on the new top end. So, I guess there are about 50 hrs on the chain and sprockets.
I don't get close to the riding time I'd like, but I do ride when I can.
Seems I can ride moto after moto with very little change, but it's the woods rides that wear on it. PLUS...real muddy DirtWeek rides don't help things either!

Posted by: jeb---------------------

Get both quality and price. http://www.rockymountainmc.com/ has the DID X-ring for the cheapest price anywhere.

Posted by: ml36---------------------

the DID x-ring gets my vote. it lasted 8 months on my 520, along with the stock aluminum sprocket amazingly, and ride almost 50 mi every weekend. EK aslo makes a quality x-ring chain that is reasonably priced. i just bought sidewinder's 300$ combo with the stainless chain and ti-moly rear sprocket. it didn't hold up well on my buddies bike, but i'm curious to see how well they will last on my bike. they better at least last twice as long as the stock equipement or i'm going to be pissed.

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Unless you adjust, clean, and lube properly nothing will last.

Posted by: SFO---------------------

XCheck out the bikemaster o-ring chain.
It is the tucker rocky repackaged label.
It is an ek o-ring chain that served me very well for over 1400 wfo baja miles on my big bore yz-f, a real chain eater.
Only one adjustment over the distance and retail is 55$ for 120 links.
Add in a racer discount and I'll be buying one for Denises bike.

Posted by: Joepro9---------------------

D.I.D Gets my vote, it has lasted a lot longer and does not stretch near as much as my friends all mighty gold "Renthal" Chain. I also have a friend who races (80's but thats not the point) And he has used everything from off brands to renthal, and he like the DID the best, it has lasted the longest of any. Of course I agree if it is not properly taken care on, nothing will last.
I also get alot of parts at rockymountain, thet prices are gennerally the best, and always better than the overrated dennis kirk.

Posted by: yzeater---------------------

Rocky Mountain is the only place with a decent price on the DID X-ring chain. Unfortunately they don't have my size in stock, and it's a month in backorder. Should I buy a 114 and use two master links or buy a 118 and cut it (which means buying a chain breaker...which they don't sell)?

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

You can get a chain breaker at AutoZone or Sears, or any NAPA.
Go with the longer chain. Don't count links, place it on to see where you need to break it...After you've run in the adjusters.

Posted by: Joepro9---------------------

I dont use a chain breaker, it can be done without one, obviously there is work involved, but chain breakers are not a nessecity if you ask me.

Posted by: JohninKY---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Joepro9
I dont use a chain breaker, it can be done without one, obviously there is work involved, but chain breakers are not a nessecity if you ask me.

Ok, I'll ask. How do you break the chain then?

I use a grinder to grind off the end of the pins and dissassemble the chain. That's probably not the best thing to do.

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Grinding slag is not kind.

Posted by: yzeater---------------------

I just ordered the DID X-ring chain from Rocky Mountain

Posted by: Joepro9---------------------

i grid the pin down to the side of the link plate, then drive the pin out. works every time. (only done it once to my new chain, it doenst srectch that much DID) but I became ver popular in the neighborhood in the "chain shortening department"

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Wonder how your o-rings feel about all those little razor sharp, pre-oxidized particles that you threw all over them?

You know, a man can open a can of soup with a sledge and a chisel....wait...I'm onto something here! Yeah, sledge and chisel, that's the ticket!

Posted by: Chief---------------------

Chains are a lot like tires, although you shouldn't have to replace them as frequently. Like Jaybird said, tensile strength matters, also proper adjustment, cleaning and lube (do a search if you need to) I have a did o ring on my bike now and it is wearing very well. I also have a renthal r1 works chain (non o-ring) on deck. Buy what you think is the best within your budget, take care of it, and when it's time to replace it, you have the option of trying something different. Either way, it's not gonna last forever so don't sweat it too much.

Rockymountain does have some great prices btw.

Joe Chief

Posted by: reynome---------------------

I've had several RK Xring chains and they work well, especially for the price at Rockymountain. I have used the bikemaster also and it did not wear as well as the RK. My buddy always buys his chains as long as he can and then cuts them, I will be doing this in the future.

For $20 you can get a good chain breaker, well worth the money IMO.

Speaking of opinions, I havent heard of too many people complimenting Sidewinder for anything they sell. They are branded as the snake oil company. I can buy alot of chains and sprockets for $300, in fact I would end up getting rid of the bike long before I spent that much on just chains and sprockets!!

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

I will give Sidewinder a bit of credit here....not on their pricing that's for sure, but on their quality. Their sprockets are made by machining and not stamping. This is a big plus in the area of being able to hold close tolerence, no way a stamped part can compete.
I've only owned one Sidewinder chain ever...and it has lasted as well or better than any motorcycle chain I've ever used, dirt or street.

To label them as a snake oil company is way unfair, and is usually done by the guy who buys the most expensive stuff they can in hopes that they are buying longevity. One can only buy a certain amount of longevity, and the rest is up to the individual and their maintenance practices.
BTW...just where have you seen them branded as a "snake oil" company? Are you reffering to the two or three flames you may have seen here in the past year or so? I suggest one considers the source of a flame such as that.
It would upset me greatly for a person to rare back and holler "snake oil" at my company without them having one bit of information or data to back the claim. In laymens terms, that practice sucks.

Posted by: jeb---------------------

I wouldn't use the term snake oil. Their products usually seem to be okay but also usually not worth the extra money you have to pay. I've been reading posts for years, long before these newer BB's were around, and Sidewinder has consistently been hammered for horrible customer service, phony discounts and high pressure sales tactics. For every 100 posts I've read about them over the years, easily 98 said they'd not deal with them again. That's good enough for me.

Posted by: MikeT---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybird
Wonder how your o-rings feel about all those little razor sharp, pre-oxidized particles that you threw all over them?

I's been a while since I bought a chain (RK Xring going strong) and even longer since I had to shorten one. I used the grinder method. Jaybird brings up a good point about protecting the orings from the slag. I'll keep that in mind next time. Good point Jay.

Posted by: Joepro9---------------------

I just use a bed sheet.

Posted by: reynome---------------------

Maybe snake oil is not the right term, rip off or con artist might be better. I have dealt with them on their "sponsership ad" they ran last year or so. What a bunch of crap. Nothing but a sales scam. Their products might be average but the cost is silly.

Jeb's coments were good, I have read my share of krouse racing or sidewinder posts too and most were bad. You might ask Rich how much he likes em. :scream:

Posted by: MikeT---------------------

I won't say a word.

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

When we want to talk equipment, then I'm in....the other stuff I preffer not to comment on other than say my dealings with Krause was only one time. He was in on a Sunday and I chanced a call. He was very informative and helpful, but that may have been becasue I have half a clue about the items he offers. It's hard to BS a BS'er.

Posted by: Speedway---------------------

Jaybird,
As a fellow former hosierian, I am hopeful you can tell me about Renthal sprockets, stamped or machined? do you recommend these or the Sidewinder brand, and how about chain, xring or o ring, certain brands you recommend?
I appreciate your expertise on this matter, by the way as you may have guessed, I grew up in Speedway.

Thanks

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Speedway,
I am not sure how Renthal is producing their sprockets now. I'm pretty certain that before they had a devisating fire, they were stamping sprockets. Don't get me wrong on that point...a stamped sprocket may well be fine, just more of a chance it's not compared to a machined item.

I won't tout any one particular chain or sprocket. I like the Sidewinder stainless I've been trying, but I really like Tsubaki chains. I also think D.I.D has a quality line of chains. Any chain with a high tensile strength and soild parts should be a good one.
My personal belief is that o-ring chains were made for, and should be run, during adverse conditions, ie...mud. For all other occasions a man should run a regular chain. Many, because of funding, will run an o-ring chain all the time. I happen to believe that a man can use a non-ring chain with just as much life, if not more, than a ring chain...providing he cleans, adjusts, and lubes properly. That all goes in the hopper when you ride all day in the slop unless you carry a power washer and a bottle of lube around....that is the reason o-ring chains were invented.

Posted by: Milquetoast---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Joepro9
I dont use a chain breaker, it can be done without one, obviously there is work involved, but chain breakers are not a nessecity if you ask me.

I'll second this motion, a breaker is not necessary IF you have air tools, a die grinder and a simple shield or rag. If you don't already have all that stuff, then it would be easiest to buy the breaker.

Posted by: ml36---------------------

jaybird - i agree with you in that a machined part is far superior to a stamped part. but, how can you state that a buyer of sidewinders products cannot expect to buy longevity? if i remember correctly, that is their main sales pitch, and the only reason i ever even considered buying their product. they claim 4 times the life of a mild steel sprocket and average o-ring chain. i will be happy to get twice the life, because that will be enough for me not to feel like i got bent over. if you don't mind me asking, were are you located in southern indiana?

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

You must apply good maitnenace practices to achieve longevity...it isn't bought in the instance of chains. Well...you can buy quality, but it won't last any longer than junk if you don't maintain it properly.

I won't even try to defend the claims of Sidewinder. I guess I've always known whats what on chains and sprockets and never really paid any attention to their claims.
To some, my claim that I can run a non-ring chain longer than they can run an o-ring chain seems outrageous....but I contend it's true.

I live in Charlestown. Just a few minutes out of downtown Louisville.
Come down and check out Podium1 sometime, ml36...best track in Indiana!

Posted by: reynome---------------------

For the price of sidewinder parts it better last forever!

You over rate chain maitenance Jaybird. I have run plenty of quality non oring chains and they dont hold a prayer to any oring no matter how much maintenance you perform. A man will always ride long enough that a oring chain is nessisary!

Go Big or Stay Home

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Reynome, put your money where you mouth is my friend!

I'd be willing bet good money that I can make any non-ring chain of equal quality of a ring chain last longer.
I'm real sorry that you don't see the longevity of chains that I do, but perhaps it's becasue I over-rate chain maintenance and you neglect it.

As a matter of fact, I bet money I can get more hours out of a standard RK 520 than most folks can out of a D.I.D. X-ring. I just can't find any takers. How about you? Go big or stay home, indeed.

Just as a side note...I had a customer who was wearing out a #120 (biggun)chain and replacing every month or two. This happens to be a drive chain that runs 20 hours a day, 6 days a week. I was asked to consult with the maintenance men who were assigned to it. After I explained to them the proper way to lubricate and adjust the chain, their problems seemed to disappear...that was 2.5 years ago and the same chain is still on and in full operation. Funny how over-rating chain maintenance works out, huh.
Oh yeah, that particular chain was costing my customer $600 a crack. Think my advise was worth anything?

Posted by: reynome---------------------

You got to ride me to get em dirty. Sounds like you wear em out by "doing maintenace" of some kind.

Sorry but your post sounds silly to me, and I dont beleive any one here has problems washing and cleaning their chain. If you really think there is so much to it lets hear your killer tips. Put your money where your mouth is!

Posted by: Speedway---------------------

Jaybird,
I appreciate you advice as you have steered me in the right direction twice now. Anyway, I am concerned and advid with chain/sprocket maintenance after every ride, simple green, tooth brush chain, flush with water and recently use Motul yellow oil. My Question: If we are talking about chain strength, would not an x-ring chain be better (stronger) than an o-ring chain? I ride in sandy sometimes muddy conditions mostly. I am looking at the D.I.D. x-ring chains. So help a fellow Hoosier at heart please.

Thanks Speedway

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by reynome
You got to ride me to get em dirty. Sounds like you wear em out by "doing maintenace" of some kind.

Sorry but your post sounds silly to me, and I dont beleive any one here has problems washing and cleaning their chain. If you really think there is so much to it lets hear your killer tips. Put your money where your mouth is!

No thanks, reynome, I'm sure you get ridden plenty!
It is silly, quite silly, especially for the narrow minded who foolishly throw money away....now if you ever want to become a bit enlightened, just do a search. I won't waste my time on your account, it'd be silly, yes?

Speedway, the rings are simply to seal the area between the bushing and the pin after lubricant has been injected during mfg. They have nothing to do with the strength of the chain itself.
Simple o-rings are exactly that, a rubber gasket in the shape of an O. the inside diameter fitting around the pin surface and the outside diameter, in some cases, sits in a recessed part of the plate and against the bushing.
The X ring is also a rubber gasket that has four flanges pertruding from the center. If you look at one it looks similar to an X. It does the same job as the O ring, but it 's design allows it to work while creating less of a resistance than the O ring does. This is why they claim the X ring does not rob horsepower, however I believe that any ring hinders the chains performance slightly.

There are ways of doing things, and then there are better ways.
If a man does things a certain way and gets certain results, I wouldn't expect them to ever see different results without changing method.
I happen to be open to suggestions on just about any topic. Especially suggestions concerning my passion...dirtbiking.
There are folks who know far more about chains and sprockets and seat covers and oxygernators and tires and el caminos and potato guns and life than I do, and I welcome every bit of information I can get from them.
I would think doing otherwise would be quite boring.

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

I LOVE these chain threads....

Posted by: yzeater---------------------

Okay Jaybird, you've beaten the idea of maintaining my chain into my head...and I won't buy Sidewinder sprockets...but what sprockets should I buy...once again, quality vs price?

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

I like sprockets that are machined and not stamped.
try www.sprocketspecialists.com for decent prices.

Sidewinder: Front=$30, Rear=$70, Chain=$50 $150.00 total package
That is so outrageous that stuff should last forever!!!!!(sheeesh)

Happy shopping.

Posted by: Chief---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by reynome
Sounds like you wear em out by "doing maintenace" of some kind.

Jaybird, Before returning to the topic,

Please speak more of this 'maintenace' that reynome accuses you of, how is it performed? Is it from the dark side? Perhaps one could use this 'maintenace' ritual as an unfair advantage against competitors, causing their chains to wear prematurely during a race.

Joe Chief

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Darn, the cat is out of the bag!

OK, I'll 'fess up....it's actually a dance. One must be ready though because when you do the chain dance, the bad chain mojo can fall upon anyone in the immediate vicinity.

I'm not really going to explain or show you the dance...not unless you PAY.
Uncle Vic says that by no means should I ever show anyone the dance, unless I gets mucho dinero. Or a reasonable fact simile.

Highlights of the dance can be viewed at www.soakeminWD.com
A nominal fee is charged to enter. You WON'T be disappointed!

Also, you may want to check out some tips at: www.mountemandforgetem.com

btw...thanks for the bad mojo reynome....I should have mentioned the dance from the start, then folks would be aware that it's me that is all screwed up on this topic, and not you.

Posted by: Papakeith---------------------

Ok, I clicked on the links, and got nothing :confused:

I'm from the mountemandforgetem clan. Although I feel a strange pull to the maintenance side of the force since reading all of your posts!

If you wouldn't mind, what in your opinion is a proper maintenance schedule?

Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Papakeith
.... Although I feel a strange pull to the maintenance side of the force since reading all of your posts!
If you wouldn't mind, what in your opinion is a proper maintenance schedule?

(there is hope in the world

)
Papa,
I'm way too long winded...and it gets a bit boring anyway. I think a search may yield some of my ramblings, but bottom line is "proper" cleaning, adjustment, and above all proper lubrication.
I plan on offering all the tips I can muster at www.mx1000.com very soon.

Chain maintenance is like any other sort of bike maint., some do and some don't. Some will and some won't.
One fact remains, link chains have been around longer than any part of the bike, period. Ole Leo Divinci saw there was going to be controversy, so he just drew them and never actually built one.

What does amase me is that so many will spend LOTS of money on things that will be of very minimal value, yet resist advise on things that can actually be of value....unless they read it in MXA, it just can't be so.

Posted by: reynome---------------------

Jaybird put up or shut up. If you are some kind of self proclaimed guru of the highly technical chain maintenance procedures lets hear it.

Im sure Eric would like your highly technical methodology to put in his next book. LOL

Posted by: MikeT---------------------

Well, it's been 53 minutes since you posted. Since I know that Jay knows chains, he's probably been typing for 52 minutes so plan on having a book to read.

It will be interesting reading though and probably a lot of stuff we don't do but should do with our chains.

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

You bunch of chain abusers

Posted by: MikeT---------------------

I'm not a chain abuser........ I'm a recovering chain abuser.

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

You are doing better than I am then... :D

Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

If you favor long 50+ mile rides in sloppy conditions on a powerful bike, a good quality 'o' or 'x' ring is the best choice, IMO.

Any maintenance procedure that involves time also has a cost.

I would love to learn some new tips on how to make this sport more affordable, but I'm going to have to see some compelling evidence before I'd consider a switch.

Posted by: ml36---------------------

very good point dave. i am very limited when it comes to finding time to maintain by bike. time is money, and i can't afford to waste 3 hrs after a ride cleaning my chain. i scrub it with a chain brush, rinse well with low pressure hose, and spray her down with penetrating oil while still wet (keeps the chain from rusting and disperses water out of any unwanted areas). then, in the moring before i load up, i spray on a coat of bel-ray super clean chain lube. but it doesn't matter, cause its all useless after you go through that first nasty mud whole and the rest of the ride your chain is bone dry. all the maintenance in the world won't make up for the fact that when you ride off road, your chain rollers and sprockets are dry of lubrication 90% of the time. now, if ride on mud free tracks all the time, well, that's a different story.

Posted by: Chief---------------------

I'm a spode, I don't race, I just wanna get out there with my old buddies and ride, also come home in one piece. I haven't had a dry ride since the spring thaw and even then, there were streams to cross. Although it's only the second chain I've owned (did o-ring) I've learned how to adjust, align, and take care of it (I think) and it's holding out quite well for me. I like it. I think the lube I use has a lot to do with it. Pro Honda HP chainlube.

ML36, I respectfully disagree with you as far as losing your lube after 1 splash. This stuff repels water. It comes off with brake cleaner, has teflon and moly, leaves a waxy finish on the chain. Just the ticket for guys like us that want to do what's necessary to get the most ride with the least amt of maintenence time. It's supposed to keep the rings supple as well (their claim). I sometimes go a few rides without lubing it, and it still has that waxy finish, although the water and grit I ride through almost seems to rinse the big stuff off. It's really is good at not attracting dirt and repelling water. Just my experience and opinion.

Jaybird, I have been doing research on the 'chaindance'. The info I've collected suggests burning a worn (preferrably broken) chain soaked in keroscene and all sorts of carrying on (similar to native american dance) whooping, speaking in tongues, arms spread open to ancestral spirits, etc. also painting one's face with any type of black and/or red grease in preparation. It seems a lot like the old films of ancient native tribal custom. Although I would have little use for it myself, am I on the right track?

ps sorry to be nosy, but why do you keep picking on REYNOME? I think you are getting under his skin. Leave the poor guy alone already!!!

Sincerely,

Chief

Posted by: MikeT---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Chief
Pro Honda HP chainlube.

Good Stuff!

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Quality VS Price for O-ring chain

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