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Motorcycle tech school questions!!
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Posted by: MSR NUT---------------------
Hi,
I will be graduating high school in 2 years ?and I was trying to figure out how to be a motorcycle engineer/designer. And what you need to suceed If anyone knows please tell me. Thanx
Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------
Start by going to a college with a good Engineering program like University of Ilinois. Good engineers are in short supply.
Posted by: JOE13---------------------
I have been thinking along the line of what MSR NUT is talking about. The only problem is, I don't think I could make it to U of I. Lets just say I'm not not a wiz when it comes to school. Are there any colleges or programs for us slightly slower people?
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"Do as I say not as I do."
Joey
97 RM 125
Peoria, IL
Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------
Anyone who is ferociously passionate, willing to work like a dog for less than adequate pay, and who takes the time to understand some fundamental physics, chemistry, and mechanical principles can go pretty far in the motorcycle business. It's not a good way to get rich, but there are more important things than money. Eric is a perfect example. He has two US Patents, is a recognized leader in his field, yet he never went to college, and his high school counselors tagged him as learning disabled. THAT'S A LAUGH.
Any decent school can provide the foundation necessary to change the world. It's the individual not the diploma that makes great things happen.
Posted by: CR3999---------------------
Well said Rich, That is a true statement..................just a fan
Posted by: Heywood---------------------
I agree with Rich, that a BS Degree (no pun intended) is a very good way to get started, but even if you get a Degree it is very difficult to get into the highly desirable job like R&D Engineer for a race team.
Since this type of job is highly desirable and there are a very limited number of jobs. To succeed you will have to want it bad and work hard at it. Start ASAP and focus all of your efforts towards your goal.
I am an Electrical Engineer and my technical credentials are top notch. When I got tired of the consulting biz (which I did for 15 years), My first thought was to get a job I could really love, in "The Industry".
I sent out a number of resumes to the Japanese Factories (I even know some folks at one of the factories) and they basically had no interest in me, most likely because I did not have industry specific experience and I was fairly sucessful (money wise).
I also tried some auto racing companies (Pi Research, Arcerio Wells, Etc.). I got pretty much the same result.
My point with all of this is: to get this type of job is pretty difficult, even with the technical expertise. A lot of things need to come together to make it happen. I have a number of friends who haven't taken a lick of college that are working in the industry and making awesome money.
If your serious, go for it. These are my suggestions:
If you are able to go to college full time after high school, go for it. Get your education and no matter where you end up you will be better off.
If you can't afford that route, try to get ANY job you can at a company you would ultimatley like to work for and work your way up from there. Learn everything you can on the job and consider going to school on a part time basis.
Another thing to conisder is a school like MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute) as a start. I thought about going there myself to get some industry specific training. I just coudn't afford to skip work for that long (wife, kids, house payment, etc.). It sucks being old!
Best of luck on your quest!
Posted by: Tennessee Thumper---------------------
Rich,Have you ever considered going on one of those motivational speakers tours?? http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/wink.gifAll joking aside,if you can go to a college like University of Illinois go.If im not mistaken they have one of the best Engineering school's in the U.S.If you are or aren't fortunate enough to get into U of Illinois. Rich's post pretty much sums up what has to be done to succeed in any field.
Posted by: cr250john---------------------
MSR NUT,
If money is an issue for college, look for a company in your specific field that offers tuition reimbursement. I was able to get my employer to pay for my last 3 years of college. They wanted me to have at least one year of college on my own to show that I was serious. After that, they paid all tuition (I paid for the books) AND they let me work half time and go to college half time and still get FULL PAY! The last 3 years of college did take 5 years to complete because of the part time basis but well worth the time invested. I'm now an Electronics Engineer and enjoy my work.
So the long and short of it is... Start looking early. Don't wait until your senior year of high school. Research up front will keep you on track and ahead of your classmates!
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cr250john
Mine '00 CR-250 '95 Yamaha Virago XV-750
Kids '01 CR-80's
[This message has been edited by cr250john (edited 09-25-2000).]
Posted by: PaulXR---------------------
MSR NUT, the cold hard truth is you will need that degree in engineering to get you foot in the door. You will not get far with out it. Yes it is hard and not a great amount of fun but the rewards come AFTER school. I have an aerospace eng. degree and get to work on missiles/rockets and even the Shuttle program, do you think some kid out of high school would even get this chance? If you wnat it bad enough you WILL get good grades and make your way.
Posted by: Ando---------------------
Just like everybody else said, with a couple of additions....
Go to the best school you can get into, and get a degree in engineering. This is actually pretty easy, all you have to do is be willing to work harder then everyone else.
The best individual thing you can do in college is to become involved in the Formula SAE program. If you don't know what this is go to the www.SAE.org website and research it. Formula SAE will give you introduction to the contacts you will need to get the very best industry jobs at all the best race shops. Formula SAE team members are highly sought after and they can almost write their own tickets to any job.
I wish I was together enough to know all this when I was 15. http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/frown.gif
Posted by: cwispy_chicken---------------------
where might I go to college if I wanted to become the next MXTuner? http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/wink.gif
Posted by: MX Tuner---------------------
I'm in the same shoes as Eric Gorr. No college, no training of any type in the motorcycle industry. I'm fortunate to be somewhat mechanically inclined and love working on bikes. If it is fun, you'll become good at it and enjoy the learning. I never took anybodys word for anything. I always wanted to know the unadulterated truth about mechanical devices. What I mean is you can pick up a dirtbike mag and it is littered with some pretty glaring technical mis-information. Don't take anything at face value. Be curious enough to find out (the truth on) how suspension components work, what a motor *really* needs to run it's best, etc, etc, etc.
One thing I quickly discovered was you can't trust anyone in the bike dealers (except for a very few rare individuals- Shane at Plano Honda is one of these). This goes from the parts help to the technicians. I learned to do everything because I had to, to accomplish what I wanted.
You have a good start by being here. There are truly some of the most knowledgable people in the industry right here. I wish I knew half what these guys know. If only I could look into Erics head for an hour or so....
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MX Tuner
mxtuner@mindspring.com
Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------
It doesn't work Tuner, I've tried http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/smile.gif Besides, Eric gets really snotty when you come at him with the big drill bit spinning http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/eek.gif
Posted by: EricGorr---------------------
So you want to be a motorcycle engineer eh? As a sophmoore in high school you’re at a crossroads. If you’re willing to sweat the math you should go for a mechanical engineering degree in college. It’s the best foundation for a career in motorsports engineering. If you’ve got zero aptitude for math, don’t worry theres another way.
When I was in high school I was comfortable in the shop but not the classroom. My dad told me that God gave my little sister the brains, and me the ability to lift heavy objects and carry them over time and distance. He said guys like you will always have a job. How did he know I was someday going to try and mx a KTM640!
If you want to go the college route, give a serious look at the Milwaukee School of Engineering. They have lots of flexible degree programs (including Internet studies) and put the emphasis on hands rather than tests scores. Although over-shadowed by the University of Wisconsin/Madison and their excellent facilities, MSOE has shown moments of brilliance in SAE competition of Baja and Formula cars. Getting involved in SAE competition will go a long way in securing a job as a motorsport engineer. That’s where corporate head hunters go to look for talent. In our local SAE chapter (Southern Wisconsin) we have engineers from engine and motorcycle manufacturers. Its amazing how many talented guys went to MSOE. I think their web site is www.msoe.edu
About 16 years ago Jeremy Wilkey (MX-TECH and DRN Suspension moderator) had the same idea. His dad is a mechanical engineer but Jeremy had a tough time with the math. He got his degree in geology, another one of his interests. His study path on motorcycle engineering involved a lot of hands on testing and encouragement from me. I remember when he decided to go for suspension. He just said “I’m gonna learn everything I can about motorcycle suspension by tearing it down rebuilding, testing, refining, and talking with everybody involved in it”.
I guess the moral of the story is you don’t need some old fartknocker in a black square hat to hand you a piece of paper to make you a motorcycle engineer. You have to work for it. A foundation of mechanical engineering will keep you on course rather than straying down the dark alleys along the way.
Heres the coolest book on the subject “The Racing Motorcycle” by John Bradley. Available from Motorbooks www.motorbooks.com Also check out the motorcycle design book by Aprilia engineers. And click on the Two-Stroke Technology button on my web site, its got lots of cool engineering links.
[This message has been edited by EricGorr (edited 01-01-2001).]
Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------
up
Posted by: Eric Gorr---------------------
Something else to add, at the recent SAE Motorsports Engineering Show held in Dearborn Michigan, I attended two interesting sessions. One was titled Young Engineers in Motorsports, which featured a panel moderated by Paul Haney, a famous author working in CART racing. The bottom line was, theres lots of jobs on race teams for mechaniclly inclined people willing to start at the bottom. Paul suggested learning how to rebuild shocks. Speaking of that, OHLINS is holding a 2-day seminar at their facility near Charlotte on January 27&27 for $200
The other enlightening session was a tour of Ilmor Racing Engines in Plymouth Michigan. They have an excellent apprenticship program which takes 8 years to fulfill. There were lots of 20-somethings there.
The motorcycle industry isn't as advanced as auto racing so there are'nt as many opportunities or chances of advancement.
Another excellent 2-day seminar is the PI Research data aquisition school held at the Brickyard in INDY.
Posted by: Bicentennial Man---------------------
Great comments by all-here's my two cents. I agree that you do not have to have a degree to get a good job and be successful in life. It is like anything else. If you have a vision, and the tenacity and passion to pursue, you will achieve. I am living proof that a regular, high school graduate can do well and succeed. I started with a Rochester based company 20 years ago cleaning and maintaining copiers. Today, I work on the most sophisticated high speed laser printers and digital front end equipment made. I am Compaq, Dell, IBM and Gateway certified to repair their equipment, and have had the pleasure to travel on business and have an expense account. However, I would be remiss not to add that if I had continued on to college and achieved a degree that I would be making anywhere from $100 to 200 more PER WEEK than I do now. If at all possible, continue to work hard and get the degree. It will pay in the long run by starting you from a higher pay base. Of course, your mileage may vary depending upon who you work for, and the potential they see in you. But for many companies, a degree is significant.
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One is glad to be of use...
[This message has been edited by Bicentennial Man (edited 12-13-2000).]
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