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Porting education and engine performance careers
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Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

I was wondering if there is anybody that runs schools for motor modification, big bores, and pipe building? I am EXTREMELY interested in this subject and would like to learn without trial and error and someday start a buisness like Eric has for moderately priced engine mods, suspension mods, and pipe manufacturing. I already have a pretty good sense of what to do but nothing like the vast knowledge of Eric. I have bought the book "2 stroke performance tuning" by A. Grahm Bell and found it extremely helpful but still very confusing and hard to understand. Would it be a good idea to buy a bike with extra cylinders and experiment on that? In the school that I go to, you can take the spring simester off to do a "senior project". You can work, build a go-kart or apprentice anywhere. Is there anyone in the porting buisness that does apprenticeships that are not just sweeping floors, really learning the trade. I would even do it for free. I really want to make motorcycle performance my career as an adult, but I don't have the slightest idea where to get started.
Sorry for rambling on and please help
Thank you very much for responding.

Posted by: Eric Gorr---------------------

I started my education in high school on one of those work programs related to power mechanics. I worked at a motorcycle shop and I wanted to skip the whole mechanics thing and jump right into high performance. The older mechanics just laughed at me because they knoew that you can't build a house by starting on the roof, its got to start at the foundation and that is basic mechanics. You start there and learn some machining related to performance rebuilding, then you get a job in a dedicated performance shop usually as a mechanic and especially learning the art of cleaning. Cleaning things are great. So is sweeping floors. If you sweep up enough metal chips around the porting bench you'll soon see where they come from and how they're removed.
My friend Jesse Arnold at Max Power started his apprenticeship by grinding plating burrs off port edges prior to honing. Its a horrible job but he sat there for 8 hours a day surrounded in a cloud of nickel dust. Eventually he got to learn how to chamfer the ports prior to plating, and with that came a book of specs for adjusting the ports for big bores. After that he learned how to fit exhaust valves. Dirty, grimey work. But he learned why he was doing it and what affect it had.
There is no school to learn high performance tuning, not even at a university like UW Madison's Engine research Center. Its a slow process.
When Jeremy Wilkey was 12 his mom contacted me and asked me to help him out with combining learning about mechanical engineering through motocross. I answered his questions, made drawings, showed him how stuff works, and told him about the squirelly motorcycle industry and the overbearing influence of motorcycle magazines. At one time he was dedicated to building a business based on engine repair, but suspension was the thing he enjoyed the most because he noticed immediate results in his own racing results.
The point is, you have to get a good solid foundation of mechanics before you can go on to a speciality. I've learned about engines, suspension, and pipe building but I picked cylinders because it takes all my time just to be good at that. Nobody can do everything great, but a lot of guys try and do a half-assed job at everthing.
Maybe Jeremy can shed some light on this, he and I have been getting scrutinized a lot lately because I didn't go to college and he's got a degree in geology.
Both of our educations in mechanical engineering started when we were 6 years old and fostered by our parents. Learn mechanics and the high performance tuning stuff will come naturally.

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

I agree with you that it really seems that you need to fall into a performance career. I understand that the grunge work is the best way to get started, but my parents don't wan't me to do that sort of thing. They want me to go to college and become a mechanical engineer. I agree with them, but once you have the degree how could you, for example get a job as mcgrath's mechanic or work in honda's R&D shop? I really want to get a job in this sort of field, but I don't know where to get started. My parents are willing to buy me porting tools and get me educaterd as long as I carry through twith the career. I know that you(Eric) runs classes and I am interested in those. If you don't mind Eric could you tell me what is taught in those classes? Also, how did you get started in your career? Did you figure it out, aprentice somewhere, or learn from books?
Thanks

Posted by: svi---------------------

Eric is exactly right in what he says. My advice would be to get an engineering apprenticeship (in any form of mechanical engineering )that allows you to study part time, day release, evening classes e.t.c. That way with the right studies and practical experience you get a solid grounding. Then if you feel the need for more education go for the degree. Of the degree educated engineers I know the best have done it this way. As for working with race teams, if you can find a team who will let you help out (a few take on keen young kids with the right attitude, ie those willing to do the nasty dirty jobs and smile about it for no pay. )Then you are mixing in the right circles keep your head down, work hard ask lots of questions - you learn. If you are good you progress. There is no direct access to the top.

Posted by: fastwes---------------------

You didn't tell us your age, kx125. I'm figuring you are 16 to 18,no insult meant if I am way off. You and I have a few things in common,grew up in CT.,middleclass folks,(yours might be way-upper-middle,)and very curious about engines. Only main difference is I'm 46, got the BSME, worked in aerospace industry,worked in fabricating shops, worked for the man who KNOWS more about two-strokes than anyone(EYVIND BOYESEN),and have been in the engine performance business too long. You should call me and we can talk about career choices.Do your math and physics homework, listen to the teachers that still have a gleam in their eyes, AND get the porting tools. Plan on going to college and learning the engineering end of it,BUT get some marketing and business education. The technical side of it is honestly the easy part. The main players in the motorcycle tuning industry don't really do anything unique, they just present it well! You live only 2 1/2 hrs. from me and could easily visit and get a feel for the industry. Call me.
Wes Gilbert
president of Boyesen Precision Porting
888-boyesen 888-269-3736

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

I'm 15 Wes. I guess I will take you up on your offer and I will call you on monday(I assume boyesen is closed on weekends).
Thank you very much
Aaron Silidker

Posted by: fastwes---------------------

Aaron,
Call me in the afternoon. I have to go to the hospital and talk about my daughters sleep test.
Jeremy just won with an experimental RAD valve hand made by Mr.Boyesen. Cool! Now if you go to college, learn about fluids,physics,thermodynamics,and have a feel and understanding for mechanical things you may come up with the NEXT great engine improvement.Remember that all the great knowledge and understanding(the tools) won't get you anywhere without the drive, desire, and ambition to complete things. You have to know how to work. I hope your parents have taught you that.
Too much philosophy too late at night,
Thanks,
Wes

Posted by: Eric Gorr---------------------

Great advice Wes! Thanks for providing another opinion on this important subject. I know that we joke about some of the stuff in the motorcycle industry, about the same old guys who get the great magazine reviews but actually spend more time engraving their logo in the side of the cylinder than porting it!
But most of these kids only know what they're presented in MXA and Dirt Rider.
Your offer to let this young man interview you is great, imagine if we had more of that advice when we were teens.

Posted by: RM_guy---------------------

KawieKX125,
There is some great advice here. I agree with all of it. You may also want to look into an associate’s degree in Mechanical Technology. They give you some theory but then back it up with hands on practical applications (lab work) so you can understand how it all actually works. If you still yearn for or need more theory you can transfer to a 4 year school to get your BS. Check with your school guidance counselor on taking this path to make sure you get into a curriculum in a two year school that can be transferred to a four year school.

I was married at 19 and worked full time while getting my associates degree in Mechanical Tech. I never went on to get my BS but I had enough engineering training to at least know what I needed to learn and took jobs that would give me the experience that I needed. That was over 20 years ago. The biggest problem I had was getting my foot in the door with out the BS degree. I had to almost work for free but once I proved myself I advanced quickly. A lot of companies want you to have that paper in your hand before they will even look at you for a job. Some of it has to do with liability issues and credibility of the design engineer in court. But some of it is if they see two unknowns and one has the degree and the other doesn’t, they are going to lean toward hiring the degreed person.

I guess my point is if you can then get the degree, get it. You don’t need it but it will save you a lot of time in the long run. Wes’s suggestion on the business courses is excellent too. Take a look at an associate’s degree. It will give you a lot of hands on experience. In any case get your hands dirty because there is no way you can learn everything you need to know from a book. If you show your parents that you have a plan for your education, whether it be sweeping up milling chips and learning form there or going through with the 4 year degree, they may be more willing to give you some lee way in how you get your training. Most parents (me included with my own son) will find it hard to believe that a 15 year old knows what they want to do with their life yet. They just want to make sure that you will have something to fall back onto if the direction you choose doesn’t work out for you. You are lucky that you have parents that care enough about your future. Work with them, not against them. You both have the same goal…for you to be successful and happy in life. Keep an open mind and question and learn everything you can.

Good luck…if you gett real good I'll let you port my cylinders http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/smile.gif
Dave

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I don’t have a riding problem...I ride, I fall down...NO PROBLEM!!

Posted by: JFN---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by KawieKX125:
I was wondering if there is anybody that runs schools for motor modification, big bores, and pipe building? I am EXTREMELY interested in this subject and would like to learn without trial and error and someday start a buisness like Eric has for moderately priced engine mods, suspension mods, and pipe manufacturing. I already have a pretty good sense of what to do but nothing like the vast knowledge of Eric. I have bought the book "2 stroke performance tuning" by A. Grahm Bell and found it extremely helpful but still very confusing and hard to understand. Would it be a good idea to buy a bike with extra cylinders and experiment on that? In the school that I go to, you can take the spring simester off to do a "senior project". You can work, build a go-kart or apprentice anywhere. Is there anyone in the porting buisness that does apprenticeships that are not just sweeping floors, really learning the trade. I would even do it for free. I really want to make motorcycle performance my career as an adult, but I don't have the slightest idea where to get started.
Sorry for rambling on and please help
Thank you very much for responding.

Now if your really interested in learning about 2-strokes see about enrolling for college at The Queens Univ. of Belfast, Ireland under some of the true guru's of 2-stroke technology, Prof Blair and his colleagues. His students are sought after by even the factories.
Now you can please your parents and learn about 2-strokes.
Later

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

I am almost 100% sure that my career as an adult will be motorcycle related. Either as a engineer for one of the companies or a high level performance tuner. My life is engines and motorcycles. I have a passion for it. Anything that moves sparks my mind for improvment and I have many ideas to improve engines, but have no way to impliment them. Ever since I was a little boy I have loved mechanical things. When I was 5, instead of getting a treehouse, my parents gave my a large area of the basement to build and discover things in. Poeple gave me old broken things as presents to take apart and not toys. Everything I know about motorcycles and engines I self taught myself through books, magazines, T.V., the internet, and people's opinions. In my neighborhood, I am known as the "Doc" because I can fix anything mechanical(not to sound cocky). Every-night I get calls from my friend's parents who ride, asking me for advise. I can not even count the # of times that I have rebuilt friends engines or with 5 minutes of time fixed their bikes. I get frantic calls from neighborhood dirt bikers in the middle of the night because they can't get their top end assembled or their bike doesn't run. I just go over their and fix it because of my passion for mechanical things. I recently cleaned up the ports of one of my friends 97 cr80's and the thing absolutely rips now! I am always looking for beater bikes to fix up and rebuild because I love to fix things. I live, breath, and sleep mechanical things. I love T.V. shows like junkyard wars, and incredible machines. As you can see, I LOVE mechanical things, especially motorcycles. I can't stand when something is not performing correctly or blatenly wrong. My posessions must be mechanically PERFECT and performing properly. I want to further my knowledge and later on get a job as a tuner and open up a business like FMF or Pro-circuit or ever Rick Peterson Motorsports, just without the high product cost.
Thank you
Aaron Silidker, the 15 year old with a dream for a career.

Posted by: jadair---------------------

I am like KAWIEKX125. I want to learn the same things, but Im only 12. I love taking apart my bike and doing a top-end job on it. I love doing anything on my bike to hop up its performance. I wonder is there any place that I can type in my zip code and see the most local college that teaches this, or should I go to the biggest college.Thanx

------------------
94 KX80T Bigwheel
Just Put me Back on My bike

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

Jadair, sounds like you have gotten a much earlier start than me. The first thing I ever learned about working on bikes was when I was 12 and you can do a top-end when you are 12, that's amazing! My tips to teach yourself would be
1, ask ALOT of questions. At the local dealer the call me blabber boy because all I used to do is ask the mechanics questions.
2, explore the internet. go to eric's site and www.macdizzy.com/2stroke.hmt that site is kindof complicated but helpful. Get a book like the 2 stroke performance tuning handbook by a. grahm bell. It is very complicated but helpful. If you want to know something call around and ask. I got rick peterson to divulge all his secrets to me over the summer in a 2 hour long distance phone call.
3, read the magazines. sure they have alot of bad info, but they also have alot of helpful info. I have 6 mag. subscriptions
4, get eric's book, details are on his website.

I am just like you. anything that helps my bike I do to it.
Hope this helps
Aaron Silidker
P.S. sorry for the bad grammer and capitilazation, but I am supposed to be writing an english paper so I had to make it quick.

Posted by: jadair---------------------

Well thanks KawieKX125, my brother taught me how to do it, hes 15. Hes got a Blaster so I know about Macdizzy.com , he goes there all the time and I go here. I have purchased Eric Gorr's book. Where can I get the one that you listed? You sould like my brother that always calls the dealer some times he calls so much he gets scared, well I shouldnt say scared but he doesent want to call again that day so he makes me call and asks his questions. Well, hope you get a good paper. Gotta Go

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94 KX80T Bigwheel
Just Put me Back on My bike

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

You can get the book on amazon.com, but be warned, it is extremely complicated, and abnormally expensive.

Posted by: Dirthead---------------------

Man are these kids cool or what? Stick with it guys, but always remember to have fun.

Like Eric said above, I can attest to how large a part cleaning is in high performance engine work. I completely rebuilt heads and did some porting at an automotive machine shop in Southern California. For a few years I was the tear down and bead blaster guy also. What a dirty and toxic job! But if a $40,000 engine had failed and was sent back by an angry customer, it was me who always figured out why it had broke. In a sense I was the quality control guy. Basically, I learned how to look at discolorations in bearing surfaces, valves, pistons and such to determine what had happened. Was it over- revved, overheated, or improperly machined? Much of the time it was not our fault but was the person(s) that drove it, installed and/or set it up fault. Something you will need to think about if opening your own business-CYA (cover your a$$)

Posted by: CRGuy---------------------

Rich's Decision was fuel
jeremy's was suspension
Eric's was engine performance work.
mine is ummmm I am not sure actualy

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http://www.honda-cycles.com
If your not dirty then your not riding hard enough!

Posted by: Eric Gorr---------------------

In 1978 I went from being a senior mechanic for a multi-brand franchise, making 50/50 commision in the days when it was something real, not "book-rate" which is just a delaership term for "fleecing the wrench"!
I took a job as the clean-up boy at a big Kawasaki Speed Shop working under a guy name Doug Meyer. Doug is now the head product developer and confidant of Rob Muzzy of Muzzy's Performance.
Cleaning parts isn't just scrubadubdub, its like surgery and the most important thing about engine building. Its the catalyst by which all other things are possible. It took Doug 14 months to teach me how to clean things and he made me read a book titled "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mechanics". That book really brought it together for me. Sometimes stepping back into roles that you think are the lowest steps on the ladder are the ones that are the most rewarding.
Rich was just telling me about the head designer at Strange Engineering got a masters degree in mechanical engineering from Georgia Tech. When he got out of college he was hired at Strange as a janitor. Strange Engineering makes aluminum axles and driveshafts for Pro-Stock drag racing cars. An engineering feat that was once considered a pipe dream.

Posted by: Jeremy Wilkey---------------------

Id like to through in my two cewnts on this as well.. Eric e-mailed me about it yesterday and I started to type a responce but had to take a call in the mean time I zapped it acidently so here goes again..

I think the major points have been covered but a few other side tips would be....

Realize that you had better love it too the core... When I opened MX-TECH I had been preapring for years...( I was only a freshman I colloge...) I used to go anywhere I could once I got my lisence to hang out watch ask questions etc.. I learned alot in those days and Eric was most beifical.. My dad is a ME and I got an early introduction like Eric by parents who thought that the best toys and exsperricences in life came by doing so I had a natural inclantion to mechaincal things and my parents gave me as much as my brain wanted.. I had all the usaula jobs in grade and highschool... The best ones was being my dads Gofor (He was a plant MAnager for ITW while I was in Highschool) I had to sweep floors mosttimes but got to talk to lots of qulity people (Engineers machints etc..) I keep that job as I statred MX-Tech tech beacuse I was not making much money at first.. http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/smile.gif

I had to earn a reputation working on toal junk.. and very few "gravy" type jobs.. I went bald at a young age so people often thought I was older than I was.. Thank God or I would still be trying to overcome that barrier.. Jim Leach used to send me this claped out old shocks but I leanred from them as well. I started buying machine tools and learned how to make just about any shock part. I look back and I don't know how Imade any momey but man was I learning and doing things noone else did...

Slowly through relationships based on trust and comunincation my reputation beagn to grow and I got busy.. But it took time and with out my freind in the industy such as Eric I doubt I would have meade it..

As for the school thing.. I never had any problems intelectualy with school.. I was a very good student.. When I got to colloge and was runing a business I did not fit in well and that was a real struggle for any tpe of respect.. Imagine beiung up till three AM doing shocks, then showering heading to class, naping for a few hours back to class, homework back to the shop... I literally sleep three to 5 hours a day for about 5 years.. (Actually I rarely get much more than that perodically even today..)

As for my degree I can't beileve I was cristized for that..That was about the dumbest thing I ever heard.. Geology is a very rigiours science.. I had to take all the big ones Calc I, II Physics etc etc.. And it is a very rigours in all scientific arenas.. I think it was great peperation.

In closing make sure you want to do this you won't get to ride anymore http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/smile.gif and it is a long hard road..I realy can't stress this enough.. But IMO its the best adventure you will ever have..

As everyone else has mentioned feel free to contact me as well..

Regards,
Jer

Posted by: Boit---------------------

Very good thread: In '94, I had the pleasure of getting to know Doug Johns, who was partners with Larry Roseler in a venture known as Stroker Speed Equipment. Doug built my '94 KLX 250 into a 338cc killer engine which is still running strong today. Doug spent some time with me going over his background and how he got to where he is today. Amazingly, his background was in printing! He has since moved on to Toyota Racing Development due his talent as a fabricator. He once told me that.."Nearly everyone has something they do well". Eric, Rich, and some of the other top notch motoheads who give their spare time so unselfishly answering our questions deserve our appreciation. These guys truly inspire me to want to soak up as much knowledge as I possibly can.

Posted by: osheen---------------------

I applaud you kids for taking such an interest in bike mechanics. Most kids can't even tighten their chain, let alone do a top end or split cases. Listening to you guys is like looking in a mirror from when I was your age. My brothers quit working on my hand-me-down Kaw 90 when I was about 11. My parents didn't always want to take the bike to the shop all the time. They encuoraged me to try to fix things myself. So I just learned it on my own with some help from the local shop. They took me under their wing so to speak. I later worked at that shop for a few years, before going on to college. Now I am a CNC Maintenance Technician in a production machine shop. Most people think that I learned everything in school. Most of what I learned came from working on bikes when I was your age and built on it.

Sorry to bore you with my story. I just wanted to let you know I think you are on the road to success........Good Luck.

------------------
osheen

BRC, AMA life member

'01 YZ250F '77 KD100m
'95 KDX200 '75 Road Toad
'79 KX250 '74 Z50A

Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

This is a good thread and is worth bringing back up to the top.

Posted by: grackle---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric Gorr
and he made me read a book titled "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mechanics". That book really brought it together for me. Sometimes stepping back into roles that you think are the lowest steps on the ladder are the ones that are the most rewarding.

Slightly off topic, but that book is a must read.  "Motorcycle Maintenance" aside, this is just a great book, that will strike a note with just about anyone. :thumb:

Posted by: Rcannon---------------------

Its funny how this thread is now several years old, but well worth reading.

THANKS to all who participated in this one!

Posted by: KawieKX125---------------------

Funny to see this thread still here started by me. I have taken a little different path in life as I see more opportunities in performance automotive fields. I am a Junior at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor as a Mechanical Engineering student.
Anyhow, its pretty cool to see this here, and to read stuff from the past.

Posted by: olderndirtmom---------------------

Another awesome thread.

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