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Splitfire Sparkplugs

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Posted by: kdxgreece---------------------

Hello
Has anyone try splitfire sparkplug? different from other sparkplugs? except the split lol. what is your suggestion?
use or not to use splitfire???
Thanks folks


Posted by: Matt90GT---------------------

On my 87 CR250 with a procircuit mid pipe I could take a new NGK br8es and the splitfire 406c and swap them back and forth. With the stock NGK and the R series plug with the thin electrode, the bike would stop about 3/4 throttle in making power and just rev out basically. Swapped in the splitfire and it would pull all the way to WOT. that was the only change.

I installed one on the KDX250 and noticed a bit more hit from it. Enough to notice.

The only bad side I have found on them is if you dont gap both electrodes the same, it will only fire on one side until the gap erodes equal to the other side. Thus you get a normally firing plug. Also when they foul out, they seem to just die. Dont waste your time cleaning them.


Posted by: Gladiator---------------------

The engineering behind that plug allows it to last longer without fouling. It provides more surface area thus allowing for more of an area to provide a spark. The only problem is that if you have a motor that is fouling plugs, this plug will foul also. You just have more surface area to foul. It is mainly a marketing tool. I have seen side by side test of many spark plugs. The spark always follows the path of least resistance. Anyway, a standard NGK plug will do you fine.


Posted by: Matt90GT---------------------

I always run my mains a bit rich in the summer, so I go through a few plugs a season but I figure it is cheap insurance.

You may want to read this:

http://performanceunlimited.com/ill...sparkplugs.html

They do not praise the splitfires, but I have liked them in my bikes. The sidegapping is what I do to my extra plugs.


Posted by: Mikeb---------------------

If it works for you then use them but if you ask a good mechanic (or anyone in the performance forum) it's a waste of money.


Posted by: clutchcover---------------------

I couldn't throw my last splitfire far enough. I couldn't keep them from fouling in my four stroke let alone my 2 stroke. I would stick to ngk. But hey, if they work, and apparently for some they do, and you like them, use them. I had nothing but problems. Try them, but at the price I will stick to the ngks.


Posted by: canyncarvr---------------------

Rich R., where are you? I may 'memmer incorrectly...but I recall him having some hilarious input on splitfires??

...along the lines of clutchcover's point of view.

The advantage of a splitfire is....more ground electrodes? Uh...there's generally a problem GROUNDING arcs? There's a joules build up problem cuz they've got nowhere to go? More gound paths provide more spark?

Not that I know of.

The 'easier to spark' part comes from the CENTER electrode...thus fine wire, FINER wire, platinum, iridium plugs and such.

THAT said, if it works for you, that's great! I've got a few of my own 'works for me!' ideas that are not commonly subscribed to, and that's fine by me.


Posted by: fishhead---------------------

waste of money in my opinion!


Posted by: yzeater---------------------

I heard that since because the splitfires has two electrodes you get two powerbands


Posted by: jaguar---------------------

I would think that a double spark would double the total spark area but would also make the spark weaker since it's dividing the same electrical current into two. Maybe good, maybe not.


Posted by: canyncarvr---------------------

double the spark?

In a word........no.

Most ignition systems spark once (if they spark at all). Not possible for it to happen twice. The field builds in the coil until it breaks down over the spark gap (or other lesser restriction..or not at all if there's nowheres to go), and then it's done. Finito. ...til next cycle.

Well, except in an MSD equipped bike, which IS a possibility.
(Multiple Spark Discharge, made by Autotronics. Works terrific...in my car, anyway )


Posted by: BucKat---------------------

Has anyone visited the plug site mentioned by Matt90GT?
What's your opion on the modified plug trick?
Joe


Posted by: canyncarvr---------------------

I read somewhere (it being tradmarked, I can't "" exactly )

The closer 'sharp edged' surfaces will more easily propagate the initial spark.....

I use a B8EG specifically for that reason. If you don't mind the $, something along the line of B(R)8EV-X would be an improvement over the 'ES' oem style.

Indexing plugs has been a 'trick' of the trade forever, too. That method involves marking the porcelain of the plug to determine which direction the gap 'faces', installing the plug with washers required to ensure the gap faces INto the chamber..not AWAY from the chamber.

In a hemi head engine (your kdx), there isn't any 'into' and 'away' or pocket to worry about.

The point is, 'tricks' not withstanding, most importantly, the spark has to HAPPEN in the first place. Total loss systems (magnetos in dirt bikes) are iffy in the first place, so use a plug that has firing advantages ON THE CENTER ELECTRODE or path construction.

Like the above mentioned NGKs.

imo and all that...........


Posted by: Chili---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by RM250'er
Has anyone been using Split-fire plugs ? Of all the plugs I've tried, these last the longest for me.


Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Rohrich


Only at the end of a plumb line when I'm hanging drywall.


This was pulled from an older thread in the Maintenance forum if it gives you any guidance.


Posted by: canucklehead---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by canyncarvr
In a hemi head engine (your kdx)


You mean, I've been running a 200 Hemi this whole time? Wait'll I tell my friends! :confused:


Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Junk

There is always a chance of the ground strap comming off of any plug and fouling up your piston and cylinder wall. The splitfire doubles that chance with NO addtional perfomance gain of any sort. Like, Gladiator stated...The spark will always follow the path of least resistance.


Posted by: Matt90GT---------------------

Technical theory/thought with out a lot of research to back this up. Here goes:

First a MX bike has a weak ignition stock. So anything that can be done to help it will gain more performance from the motor. Basically a thinner wire plug like the Iridium or IX series NGK plugs is what they recommend for most bikes because you get a hotter, more efficient spark.

When we asked NGK about the +4 type of plug in a bike, they said it would actually lose power cause of the additional grounds.

Since I am one of the few that have seen a gain in power on a 2 stroke with a splitfire - never in any 4 strokes - I have an idea why. Like said with a 4 stroke indexing the plugs can help you make more power caues you are pointing the spark towards the fuel. Think about a 4 stroke OHV head. you have a plug that is facing down in the cylinder which unless indexed will be point away from the fuel and valves. As the fuel is drawn into the chamber is is drawn down with the movement of the piston and then compressed back up towards the plug. Apply the same indexing theory on a 2 stroke and since there are no valves you would want the plug to fire straight down at the piston and fuel. with the V in the splitfire plug it allows the spark to fire down into the combustion chamber instead of sideways. Sidegapping the plug would have about the same effect also.

Comments on those ideas......?


Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

Only way you saw a performance gain from that plug was if the plug you changed out was crap.


Posted by: jaguar---------------------

I'm thinking about ordering a Triple Platinum splitFire for $6.
I like how the spark has more direct exposure to the combustion area.
see picture at http://www.splitfire.com
from web site:
Now SplitFire's patented split "V" side electrode design is available with three separate points of platinum, substantially reducing electrode wear. What's more, the revolutionary platinum-tipped fine wire center electrode requires less voltage to fire. No other spark plug combines 3 platinum alloy points, the fine wire center electrode and the patented split "V" technology. No other spark plug provides more for the life of your vehicle engine!

ps- to OldMember: I didn't mean two sparks at different times, I meant two sparks at the same time.


Posted by: canyncarvr---------------------

It's 'path of least resistance', not 'paths of least resistance'.

I understood you to mean two sparks at the same time.

While you could make an eclectic argument that would theoretically make such an event possible, it isn't happening in reality.

Chili: re: 'drywall'
Thanks for looking that up.

canuck: You bet'cha! (but...you knew that) You know what that means (equipped with this new bit of knowledge)...you gotta ride a WHOLE lot faster if you're on a HEMI!! There's a reason the 426CID was rated stock-outta-the-box @ 525BHP! ..well, by racing organizations that knew the 425BHP mfg rating was BS for the sake of winning races based on weight ratios!

Seriously....of course it is so.


Posted by: canucklehead---------------------

Canyncarvr, you continue to be a fount of knowledge for all things KDX...

Did you hear that starting next year, Mopar will be sellin crated Hemi engines for hotrod projects? Someone told me list price is $25,000! Dodge is planning a Hemi Dakota sometime soon too... sweet!

Thanks again for all the info!

Dave


Posted by: canyncarvr---------------------

Fount? Sounds kinda like 'expert'..which would be 'ex' as in 'has been' and 'spert' as in 'drip under pressure'!

Heavens no. Just an opinionated, crotchety a$$. Well...so I've been told.

Hope that crate hemi weighs something less than the gazillion pounds the iron one did.

Hemisperical heads aren't so uncommon any more, but there's something about a Hemi that's different from a hemi!


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by canucklehead
Did you hear that starting next year, Mopar will be sellin crated Hemi engines for hotrod projects? Someone told me list price is $25,000!


Mopar Direct has been shipping crate Hemi motors for a couple of years now. 465hp 426 cubic inch versions start around $10K and they go up to a 610hp 528 cubic inch version with aluminum heads (saves about 60 pounds) for about $13K. It's only $25K if you order it with Splitfires pre-installed :confused:


Posted by: jaguar---------------------

Canyon Carver, were you saying that you think it's impossible for there to be two sparks at the same time? I think it's possible if the two points of the V are equidistant from the center electrode.


Posted by: canucklehead---------------------



Good one Rich..

I think we're a bit behind the times up here in Canada! Didn't know they were already selling them down there. Still, $13K seems pretty decent for all that horsepower. Anyone know if I can fit the 528 in my Dakota 4x4? :confused:


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by jaguar
I think it's possible if the two points of the V are equidistant from the center electrode.


You should have listened more carefully in physics class. :D


Posted by: MrLuckey---------------------

Hmmm for anyone really wanting 2 sparks the hot setup would be two sources of electricity, two plugs and a pot to adjust the delay on the second spark so you could fire them at the same time or a few milliseconds apart I still don't think you'd see much if any gain, what would the second spark do? Ignite a combustible mixture thats already going BOOM!


Posted by: jaguar---------------------

Hey dudes, the hotter the spark the better or more consistently the mixture ignites.
Please explain your short remark about physics class. I'm all ears.


Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

jaguar, no offence...but marketers dream of folks like you.
In the world of fluff, a man should learn to gain some cynisism.

This s*itfire thing has been hashed out before, perhaps you should venture beyond the green room and do a search. You just may find the answers you are looking for.


Posted by: Matt90GT---------------------

Hey Jaybird, it is true about the fuel mixture igniting. Call NGK and ask them about spark plugs. They will tell you straight.

Basically MX bikes do not have very hot ignition systems. So anything you can do to improve the spark will result in a more complete burn of fuel. Not every molecule of fuel actually gets burned in the combustion process. That is why cars have upgrades like the MSD ignitions that fire for 20* of the ignition timing multiple times - to make sure you get a more complete combustion burn. Here is a quote from MSD about the 6a series:

"The 6A is our base capacitive discharge, multiple sparking ignition. It will increase the overall performance of everything from the loaded work truck to the bracket street cars cruising the boulevard. The hot multiple sparks ensure complete combustion of the air/fuel mixture even under the worst conditions possible."

So the idea of a better/hotter spark on a MX bike is a good thing here. The Answer Roost Boost is about the only product in my memory that actually was designed to actually increase the spark plug power. Basically since a motor is just an air pump powered by fossil fuels, the more fuel you can burn, the more power you can make. So don't knock little things like different plug designs, side gapping or indexing plugs. It has all been proven on dynos in different motors that small things can make a difference in HP.


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by jaguar
Please explain your short remark about physics class. I'm all ears.


Your physics teacher should have cleared up your 2 sparks at once misconception. The current generated during the firing of a sparkplug is a flow of electrons which has to flow along a path of least resistance. Marketing can't change physics, in spite of their frequent attempts to. There can only be one path of least resistance at the instant the spark plug fires and only one spark. Multi-spark systems just repeat the firing sequence over a number of crankshaft degrees, but each time there is only one spark.

BTW, what exactly is a hotter spark? People throw that term around constantly but I've never seen anyone clarify it.


Posted by: Rockey5000---------------------

It's not hotter but more concentrated. This allows you to mix the performance of both increasing and decreasing the plug gap at the same time. The BR8EI-X has a small electrode which intensifies the spark (more concentrated). This allows the plug gap to be greater and you can combine both traits of an increased and decreased plug gap.


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by Rockey5000
It's not hotter but more concentrated.


SAY WHAT?


Posted by: jaguar---------------------

Rich, I would define a Hotter Spark as one with more electrical current.
I think you're being slightly narrow minded about the path of least resistence. If you hook up two equal resistors in parallel to a battery there will be equal electrical current through both resistors. In this case there is no path of least resistence since both resistors are equal.
Something else to consider; If you hook a 10K resistor and a 5K resistor parallel across a battery you will get twice the current through the 5K than the 10K. My point here is that your "All or nothing" mindset is erroneous because if you were right then all of the current would flow through the 5K resistor since it is the path of least resistence. But it doesn't.
IF both electrodes are equidistant BUT the current only flows through one of them THEN maybe it's because of some kind of electrical inertia or something where they would rather flow together instead of seperate.
I don't know. I am anxious to receive mine that I mail ordered and look closely at the spark(s) while the plug is resting on the engine and I crank the ohmigosh out of it.


Posted by: Rockey5000---------------------

The only way to create two sparks in a single combustion chamber is to incorporate a second spark plug. This is used in the Mercedes 5.0 Litre engines found in any 500 class Mercedes (SL,S,CL,E,CLK, etc.). Because the cylinder has a very large displacement this is conceiveable but would be hard to do on a 125 or even a 250 cc head. The 625cc cylinders are quite large so the added spark would help increase the efficency of such a large cylinder. The efficency of this 5.0 litre engine is very great, although could be improved with an added exhaust valve. Combining these features would allow a very efficent and clean burning engine to be created. A dual-spark plug engine with 3 intake valves and 2 exhaust valve, and a multisparking ignition would create a very efficent burn. Adding a forced induction system would also further increase efficency. A turbocharger or supercharger would allow the engine to reach 100% volumetric efficency. This would allow the most possible power to be extracted from each power stroke of the engine. If these new technologies were incorporated into new engines a 2.0 liter engine of


Posted by: Rockey5000---------------------

Sorry about that, let me continue- a 2.0 liter engine could produce around 150hp/l , which is a very high efficency. This is the new technology which allows Honda Civics to run 12 second 1/4 miles. It should be utilized in ore engines today.
[Rant off]


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by jaguar
My point here is that your "All or nothing" mindset is erroneous


Like I said, you shouldn't have slept through physics.

Quote:
Originally posted by jaguar
IF both electrodes are equidistant BUT the current only flows through one of them THEN maybe it's because of some kind of electrical inertia or something where they would rather flow together instead of seperate.


"Electrical inertia" I need to write that one down.


Posted by: Rockey5000---------------------

Doesn't Bosch make a plug with 4 seperate electrodes? Would that make it possible for 4 sparks to happen all at once or would the current just jump to toe electrode with the least resistance?


Posted by: jaguar---------------------

Rich
so tell me how many years you've studied electronics. (zero I'll bet). I graduated from 2 years of study back in '77.
Please don't shame the great Albert Einstein who had a very expansive mind and could imagine such things as "electrical inertia" existing until proved otherwise. One of his favorite sayings, which applies well to you, Is "The two most abundant substances that exist in the universe is carbon and IGNORANCE".
You are sooo cute how you make comebacks that are just fluff. Talk with substance and not just stinky attitude


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

While you are teetering on your decidedly wobbly soapbox you might want to look up the word "inertia" and familiarize yourself with the concept of an "ionized path". It should help clear up a few misconceptions about the difference between the battery/resistor example you cited and the requirements needed for a spark to cross an airgap.

FWIW, I spent six years as a test engineer at US Robotics and 3Com. Luckily we didn't have to deal with any messy electronic or physics stuff there because we made our products out of wood.

You are right in one respect. Einstein was a remarkable thinker, but he was also wise enough to appreciate and accept the basic physical laws that govern the planet. Last time I checked he might have even contributed a few.

Rumor has it that the Splitfire guys are the new sponsor/R&D center for the Maxwell's Demon racing team, so maybe you are on to something afterall. :D


For those who haven't seen it here is a link to the class action lawsuit against Splitfire. http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/legal/split.html


Posted by: Jaybird---------------------

I'd be willing to be money that those of you who are arguing the validity of these special plugs have clogged silencers, gooed up valves, and run nothing but WD-40 on your chains. Not to mention...slow

Rich does have a "stinky attitude"...why do you think they call him a "poo poo head"




Posted by: jaguar---------------------

OK
At http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/legal/splitcom.html you can read of the legal action of the Federal Trade Commission against SplitFire because they didn't have any real studies to back up their claims. But that doesn't mean the plugs aren't better, just that there's no decent documented evidence that they're better.
I'll withhold my judgement till the day I try one.


Posted by: powercart---------------------

All this over a 6 dollar spark plug, oh my


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

The splitfire concept is not without merit. Anytime you can add additional sharp edges to the ground strap you potentially can decrease the voltage required to get the spark (singular) to jump the gap. Depending on the circumstances decreasing required voltage can be an advantage, but it's not always a good thing. As the plug wears and the ground strap and center electrode erode the additional available sharp edges should keep the voltage requirement fairly consistent. NGK does this by adding a second ground strap with their EK series plugs, and through the use of fine wire precious metal center electrodes on some of the other models. IMO the problem with the splitfire implementation is the way they go about splitting the ground strap which experience has shown increases the failure rate. Well that and beating people for 3-4 times the price of a standard plug for a dubious advantage.

You can easily get the same advantage from a 99 cent NGK BR8ES plug by taking a pattern file to the ground strap and making a slight v shape of the end.

If you want to overpay for a poor quality plug, be my guest. Just don't buy into the nonsense that it can magically defy established physical laws just because some guy in a factory slammed a die into the ground strap before it is bent into place.


Posted by: fishhead---------------------

you don't even need a v, just file a sharp square edge on the ground strap and file the electrode square and flat. In the old days of weak ignitions tuners used to file the ground strap back to the edge of the electrode to unshroud the spark. Those who dealt with Wico and Lucas magnetos in wet conditions know what I'm talking about.


Posted by: canyncarvr---------------------

Gee.. after a week, this thread hasn't groan (sic) at all??

Rocky:
NGK sez:
Remember that Multi Power Spark Plugs, or any other multiple electrode type spark plug, cannot provide more than one spark at a time. The primary purpose of the multiple electrode spark plug is to achieve greater spark plug durability and reliability over the life of the spark plug.

**************
Their 'multi-path' plug has THREE ground electrodes. Of course, the ones NOT being sparked to will still be subjected to 1000º or so, complete with other combustion chamber contaminants. Don't know how sharp they'd be after a lot of that.


Posted by: Matt90GT---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by fishhead
you don't even need a v, just file a sharp square edge on the ground strap and file the electrode square and flat. In the old days of weak ignitions tuners used to file the ground strap back to the edge of the electrode to unshroud the spark. Those who dealt with Wico and Lucas magnetos in wet conditions know what I'm talking about.


That is called side gapping. take a look on the first page for the link I posted on that.

FYI the splitfire plugs are $2.99 and have a 3 year warranty. Take advantage of that when they foul out. In a season, I can easily go through a dozen plugs. So if you take the price of the NGK, that is 1/3 the price.


Posted by: Rich Rohrich---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by Matt90GT
FYI the splitfire plugs are $2.99 and have a 3 year warranty. Take advantage of that when they foul out.


From Splitfire: (read the bold text closely)

SplitFire, Inc. guarantees that SplitFire Spark Plugs will meet or exceed your automotive or truck manufacturer's spark plug performance standards in a properly tuned automobile or truck with a non-modified engine for 36 months, regardless of mileage driven, or we will replace the spark plugs. (See our Warranty information sheet for full details of this limited warranty.)

Properly tuned engines do not foul plugs. Good luck :D


Posted by: Hogwylde---------------------

never mind....



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