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I love 4 Strokes because,,,

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Posted by: KWJams---------------------

<DIV>Vote for your choice and post comments :thumb: </DIV>


Posted by: JUSTRIDE415---------------------

i like 1, 2, and 3 but 2 ids definately the best


Posted by: BSWIFT---------------------

I could do without the sound, too darn loud.&nbsp; The power is right there when you want it, very tractable.&nbsp;


Posted by: Camstyn---------------------

I just like filling up the gas station.. No more mix cans! Woohoo!


Posted by: JWW---------------------

Gotta love pulling up to the pump and topping off. No more premix worries.


Posted by: WR400Rock---------------------

Because they thump, thump, thump.


Posted by: woodsy---------------------

I like them for several reasons: 1. They match the noise I used to make at my elementary school desk while I was suppose to be lernin. 2. I fiqured out a way to put one on a bicycle so I wouldnt have to peddle no more (of course the grass got longer but what the heck). 3. The low end power of my Honda SL350 could nock my brother off the back by twisting the throttle right off idle. 4. I put 15000 miles on that SL before I put rings in it (I only rode my 73 250 Elsinore 1 week and had to rering her LOL) 5. I learned to ride 3 gear wheelies on my 1969 Honda Z50 and I still use this knowledge everytime I woods ride!! 6. ALL of my kids have learned on 4 strokes and they are still alive! 7. They are a true work of art internally - ALL OF THEM!!!
Here is why I feel sorry for them: 1. CC for CC they just cant run with the 2 strokes that I also love!!!!
Of course that doesnt mean that I want a CRF any less Santa!!!!!!!!
Woodsy


Posted by: dagwood---------------------

All of the above, power anytime, sound, cant be beat
" two smoke sound gives me a headache"
mix gas& oil? is this a salad?


Posted by: yzeater---------------------

I like two strokes


Posted by: KWJams---------------------

What,,,,,,,,am I the only one that voted for #3?
Something real and mechanical is going on.
No swirling gases--flappers opening--drooling spooge.
Give me valves and cams with a throaty roar!


Posted by: smarttoys---------------------

What I like most about four strokes is beating them with my two stroke.


Posted by: Jekel---------------------

No sludge coming out the pipe


Posted by: biglou---------------------

Always the exception to the rule! I've got one of each and like them both just fine!


Posted by: Humai---------------------

Nice linear throttle response, ergo reliable balance-point wheelies in any gear!


Posted by: Humai---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by woodsy
I like them for several reasons: 1. They match the noise I used to make at my elementary school desk while I was suppose to be lernin.&nbsp;


LOL! Only when you ate lots of beans!

How about&nbsp;the noise a wooden ice block stick (what's the US term - "pop stick?") made in the spokes. That was a four-stroke sound too!

&nbsp;


Posted by: James---------------------

1. "Power on demand -- not just when on the pipe" Haven't ridden one yet that had "power on demand". I can bog down and stall a 4 stroke with the best of em.

2. "The sound -- (chicks dig it)" If the bike comes close to living up to #1, then it is usually too loud and obnoxious for most humans and livestock including chicks.

3. "Something real and mechanical is going on" That's the sound of your valves grinding away and your stretching timing chain. I like fewer mechanical parts moving around in there myself.

4. "Just can't understand the mixing gas thing" It's easy enough. Dump it in the gas compared to taking out all of those bolts and changing all of those filters....dumping in the gas sounds just as easy to me. Back to #3, who needs an oil pump anyway??

I'm glad you guys like your 4 strokes :thumb:


Posted by: mr73---------------------

The easy wheelies (even though I have not riden the new bike yet).
The sound !(Almost like a mini Harley)


Posted by: Chief---------------------

They both have their beauties, and I've owned almost as many 4's as 2's. My SL 125 was really set up nice for woods and had a Jardine Header (anyone remember those). That bike climbed better than some of the newer XR 500's of that time.

Yet I'm always happy to get on my Squirrely 2 stroke after I ride any 4.

Joe Chief


Posted by: Studboy---------------------

I hate 4-strokes because of the OBNOXIOUS noise!

And like smarttoys said...I like 4-strokes when I'm beating them with my 2-stroke!


Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

Chicks dig the noise? My girlfriend said my dads yz400 sounded like it was farting! I also don't know why people think its so hard to mix gas? I Just open a bottle, pour, pump in 5 gallons at the pump, and im set for a couple weeks. Also, Why do you guys thinks its cool to have valves and cams, and chains, and other crap in your engine? Stuff wears! do you think your crf or yzf is immune to wear, and 2-strokes are just wear machines? Get real! Ive never done a top end on my 200, ive had it for over a year, going on 4-6hr rides almost every weekend and doing some racing in between! My 2-smoke has more low-end than my dads yzf, and way more throttle response. 4-strokes are just here because of environmentalists propaganda and manufactures giving in to them, I would defanatly not buy a four-stroke, because I would be supporting them, Americans are free to ride whatever dam bike they please, even polluting 2-strokes!


Posted by: flynbryan---------------------

kdxtodd this is what makes the world go round....different strokes for different folks. Some people like the strokers and some like the premixers. This sport was started with 4-strokes and realistically if we want to keep it I think it will go back to 4-strokes. As for wear if you race/ride one hard the service intervals are approx. the same. With the extra moving parts,well some of us just like a challenge That maybe a nasty fast Kdx200,but theres no way that a Kdx even comes close to the horsepower and torque numbers that any of the current 450's put out .


Posted by: woodsy---------------------

Hey Humai: Here in my area it was the infamous playing card (I liked the sound the Jack of Clubs made) clothe pinned to the frame and stickin into the spokes that did it!!! One of my friends even went as far as getting one of those "varoom" motors on his bike (anybody remember those things - they were really COOL!!!) for Christmas one year!!!

By the way SMarttoys: "What I like most about four strokes is beating them with my two stroke." I AM WITH YOU - THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THE HIT OF A CR/KX500 or even a good 250 smoker for that matter!!!!! My buddie took his KX500 on the drag strip and turned in the 12's with it (ran beside an R1!!). The pits were alive with laughter as we proceeded to head for the woods afterwards!!!!!!
Woodsy
I still woul like to own that CRF450 though....... LOL



S


Posted by: Glitch---------------------

I dont have a four stroke but I want one. After riding my friends dads CRF450 I fell in love, but love alone wont buy you a $6200 bike. The power is awesome and I think the sound just pumps you up, getting you excited to ride. And I wouldnt mind learning how the entire engine works, and working on it would be a plus, I'm kind of bored with my very simplistic 2-stroke.


Posted by: beer_stud_76---------------------

letssee here. . .after 17 years

0 clutches

0 engine rebuilds

2 carb rebuilds

o. . .i dunno.

no reason i guess


Posted by: sceptor---------------------

Chick dig the vibrations.


Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

well,FLYNBRYON, motocross started out with 4-strokes because that was the only choice. 2-strokes wern't even invented then. Then they came around the 50s and 60s, and everyone realized that it was a superior motor. It still is! we have a choice now. Now, manufactures are under pressure to get rid of 2-strokes. Honda will probley be the first to boot out 2-smokes completley. After that, more manufactures will follow. four strokes are already twice as big as 2-strokes, just to compete with them, pretty sad. Its is true that four strokes have advanced phenomanaly in the past decade, but lets see when yamaha makes the yz250f competitive ugainst 250 2-smokers. Never in a million years! Manufactures should invest more money in off-road 2-strokes, because no one really makes any off-road premixers anymore, except KTM. Just think if yamaha made a 300 or 400, using tech from the yz250! What could compare with it? No thumper could. Power from bottom to top, instant throttle response, great tractability.
Anyways,
Buy a thumper, you might as well go hug a tree.
And yes, my 200 is fast, But go find a crf200 and we'll see whats up.


Posted by: Zoomer---------------------

SUCK

PUSH

BANG

BLOW




11000 times per minute!!!!!!!! :flame: :thumb:


Posted by: KWJams---------------------

Had to figure some 2smokers would have to pipe in to this thread.

Could be a classic case of --Stroke Envy!

Hey man the coolest thing was balloons, yep!

Tie balloons by the spokes on a bicycle and they make a real deep vrump-vrump-vrump.

Way better than clothes pinned playing cards.

Come to think of it there was a weird kid down the street that would ride around going--zing-zing-zing.


Posted by: biglou---------------------

Ya gotta know the secret 4stroke handshake: You squeeze on every other stroke.*

*Stolen from Shaw520.


Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

You dont' have my real reason: I'm lazy!


Posted by: Studboy---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by kdxtodd
Chicks dig the noise? My girlfriend said my dads yz400 sounded like it was farting!


LOL! That's what I've been saying for years!


Posted by: SpoogeMooge---------------------

They sound like a half a Harley,... the good half.


Posted by: cujet---------------------

I enjoy the lazy power of the 4 stroke. Most 4 strokes are good at running wide open for long periods of time without burning up. Since that is what I do as often as I can, a 4 stroke has been the engine of choice for my last 4 dirt bikes (before the Husky 2 stroke) and probably my next. I like the 2 stroke also, however I have had enough of the overhauls and sudden failures, especially when it happens in the national forest at 100MPH.

Chris


Posted by: kmccune---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by kdxtodd
Chicks dig the noise? My girlfriend said my dads yz400 sounded like it was farting!


That is great, my wife thinks that 4 Strokes sound "Boss" ( exact quote)
and I think they sound like there farting!

Kevin


Posted by: kev_rm---------------------

I love 4-strokes because it's fun to kick their a*s in a race. :P


Posted by: flynbryan---------------------

basically the realism of producing a 2-stroke w/the same emissions as the 4-strokes is unrealistic. kdxtodd you could make a 2-stroke that would compete and out perform a 4-stroke cc' for cc',but all the restrictors and devices used to clean up the exhaust would more than reduce horsepower and definately add weight. As for the cc' thing obviously you know your stuff ,but by sheer motor design it takes more cc's to get the same amount of power from a stroker as a oil burner. I'm not knocking 2-strokes(I grew up on them like most of us) I'm just saying that if we wish to keep our sport we'll all have to sooner or later go to valves and cams. Yes it sucks to not have the option to choose, but if I have to choose between riding a 4-stroke or not riding at all, I'll choose a stroker. It just rubbed me wrong that it seemed like you came in this forum bashing 4-strokes even though this is a 4-stroke column. But I guess this IS a forum used for discussion and debate so I guess I can just stop getting offended so easily.


Posted by: flynbryan---------------------

oh but I only hug trees when I miss the turn


Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

Yeh it will suck, but those damn enviromentalists dont ever stop. They will just go after your 4-stroke next. Hey, if they can get 2-stroke outlawed, why not the four strokes, after all, they produce more Nox than 2-strokes, and they will just use that arguement against the 4-strokers. the only pollutant that 2-stroke produce more than a stroker is hydrocarbon emmissions. reducing hydrocarbon emmissions to 4-stroke levels has been acomplished, with no horsepower decrease, in fact, an increase! Look at the exp-2 honda. The 4-strokes time will come, Next thing you know, they will be pushing for electric dirt bikes! Never underestimate those guys! Sorry to butt in on your forum, but this is something im very passionate about.


Posted by: woodsy---------------------

TO ANY ONE WHO CARES - I am with KDXTodd on this one! In my opinion it is not about 2 or 4 strokes - it is about a group of "yellow belly sap suckers" (thats a little bird that clings to trees too) that think they have a RIGHT to take some of our freedom away from us! The sad thing is that "we the people" dont care if they do as long as it is not a freedom that we (as a person) arent interested in. As an example of this: I do not have an interest in carrying a loaded pistol in my car on the seat beside me. I live in an area where murder and mayhem are rare. However, I am ashamed of us that we allowed a group of idiots to remove this freedom from us! I SIMPLY LOVE OUR FREEDOM. It deeply concerns me when I read about fellow dirtbikers that cant umderstand that what KDXtodd is saying is EXACTLY what is taking place!!!!!!! (
Woodsy


Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

Thanks woodsy


Posted by: KWJams---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by kdxtodd
Next thing you know, they will be pushing for electric dirt bikes!&nbsp;


The future for all riders will be in VR (virtual reality) with synthetic dust.:whiner:

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;


Posted by: woodsy---------------------

My pleasure Kdxtodd - any time!!
Woodsy


Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

What do you have to saynow FLYNBRYON?


Posted by: zeke---------------------

To think the green-weenies will cause the end of motorcycles is not going to happen. Why,because the weenies would be fighting the manufacturers and cutting into their pocketbook. Won't happen. Look what happened with the FIM and the 500 GP's this year. They are moving towards 4 strokes now and they dominated this year. This is a World issue, not just the EPA etc. Two strokes were invented in 1878. They're not new. The off-road market has been 4 stroke for a long time .This isn't a current trend,it's been a trend.The US is a small part of overall world sales so what the US enviro's want etc. is preety insignificant to Honda Yamaha,etc. Again it's a world pressure that pushes them to make 2 or 4 strokes. The future of 2 strokes is in direct injection. Will we see it in bikes? Maybe, but it's already used in watercraft and outboards with success.
Getting back to the original topic,I like the wide power spread of my CRF450 and I feel it is an incredible bike. I've only rode two strokes before this bike and now I can't see going back. Some guys like the 2 strokes better ,good for them. The fight with green pinheads should be about land closures. With no places to ride we'll have no use for our 2 or 4 strokes and the greenies win.


Posted by: yz400fer69---------------------

The sound. All of my friends ask me why my bike sounds like a beast and the others sound like little bee's??

Power on Demand. Ya that statement say's it all. POWER ON DEMAND no clutching it because it is boggin in the corners, just stick her in gear and twist your wrist and it will be there.

Pre Mixing gas. I came from 2 strokes, and pre mixing is not all that bad, but I guess if you look at it like this... Us 4 strokers have to do twice as many oil changes as 2 strokers, but the have to premix oil/gas. Just depends on what is better for you. I prefer just to pull up to the pump and fill up.

Something mechanical is going on. People say that 2 strokes will out last a 4 stroke, not if you take care of it. If you change the oil and filter you will never need a rebuild.

I ride a 4 stroke and have a feeling that 2 strokes will be gone a little quicker than they are telling us. I think they said 2006 will be the last year of production... I think it will even be sooner then that.

Dave Burt #322


Posted by: biglou---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by yz400fer69
If you change the oil and filter you will never need a rebuild.
Not true. Keeping up with preventive maintenance definitely helps things last, but they will need a rebuild eventually. Probably a LOT sooner than most people realize. Honda recomends 25 hrs, I think?

Quote:
I ride a 4 stroke and have a feeling that 2 strokes will be gone a little quicker than they are telling us. I think they said 2006 will be the last year of production... I think it will even be sooner then that.
Not likely. Read this thread: Click!


Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

zeke, you don't know what you are talking about! If don't think the greens are capable of destroying our sport, you are seriously mistaken. Greens don't have to cut into manufactures budget. All they have to do is make john Q public think that off-road motorcycles destroy the enviroment, pollute our air, and make noise that hurts animals and endangerd species, they will have the majority of the US against us! Right now, europe is a big pusher for 4-strokes. There are 4-5 times the amount of 2-strokes as there is 4-strokes. Most of these enviromental nazis live in europe(greenpeace ect.) and thats were there getting there fire going. These people hold most of those countries high positions. Thats why europe signed the kyoto agreement, and not the US. greens are immensly capable of destroyng our sport, zeke. Its not world pressure, the epa will make life hell for the manufactures, and enviromentl groups will just keep pressuring for more legislation. Greens know that the US will be ther hardest place to get dirty laundry done, but if they continue at the pace they are going now, on the verge of banning 2-strokes, the rest of the world will just bow down to them. Oh also, 2-strokes were NOT invented in 1878, they were invented in the late 30s, but the problem of lubricating the engine was not solved until the late 40s. and one more thing, the off road market has not been four stroke for a long time, 2-strokes were the choice, until the epa crap came about and manufactures dropping their big 2-strokes, honda,ktm,ect. Gezze you thumper guys dont see the big picture in all of this. Its pretty sad. Get your heads out of your thumpers ass and wake up!


Posted by: CR Swade---------------------

Wow kdxtodd, as a person who wrote a thesis on the history of the two-stroke engine and its place in motorcycling you may want to check your facts.

Anyway, my take is this...nothing is safe from protest. Get over it. Stay involved with your politicians views, ride smart and clean and protect your freedoms period.

As far as two vs. four...it's boring and mundane as an argument at best. I grew up on two's, raced em' and swore I'd never own a four. Guess what? The power characteristics of the new fours are undeniably better in terms of ease of maintaining speed. You can see by my name I was and always will be a CR freak. But my new 525 Katoom has made me a believer in that I am much smoother, read: faster, on a four stroke. Plus I don't miss clutching/shifting non-stop, nor do I miss mixing gas or riding my arse off to keep the engine in the sweet spot. These new generation fours are one massive sweet spot. Just in case you have a hard time finding it... (kidding of course)


Posted by: CR Swade---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by kdxtodd
Oh also, 2-strokes were NOT invented in 1878, they were invented in the late 30s, but the problem of lubricating the engine was not solved until the late 40s. and one more thing, the off road market has not been four stroke for a long time, 2-strokes were the choice, until the epa crap came about and manufactures dropping their big 2-strokes, honda,ktm,ect. Gezze you thumper guys dont see the big picture in all of this. Its pretty sad. Get your heads out of your thumpers ass and wake up!


Read up:


The two cycle engine was developed by Sir Dugald Clark in 1878. The first patented two-stroke engine was a vertical twin by Alfred Scoff in 1904. Scott also developed a rotary valve engine in 1912. The Schnuerle ported engine was patented in 1925 and featured two bypass ports (loop scavenging method). In 1957 Walter Kaaden (MZ, E, Germany) added a third transfer port opposite the exhaust port. Erns Degner defected from East Germany to join Suzuki. In the 60's Suzuki and Yamaha won the World Championship using exotic porting and rotary valve developed by DKW and MZ. Bill Wisniewsk (my countryman) applied the principle of three port, or Schnuerle porting, to a miniature engine and won the 1964 FAI world speed championship. Yamaha added a pair of auxiliary transfer ports along side the main transfer ports. Dr. Hans added a pair of small auxiliary exhaust ports at the side of the main exhaust port.

Thanks to the author (not me...my thesis is long since buried)

Hmmm...


Posted by: Chief---------------------

This has turned out to be a great thread, not that it relates to the topic.

KXTodd is correct. The greenies and many other special interest groups will never quit. Kind of stupid when you think about it. "OK, we accomplished THAT goal, what can we do next?" No moderation and too much of a good thing usually. I heard the woman who organized 'Mothers Against Drunk Drivers' finally got fed up and quit, saying the organization met their goals long ago and now is way past the point of reason. No, I'm not sticking up for drunk drivers, just making a point.

Repeat a lie enough times and everyone believes it; I heard that before and think it is true, come to think of it, I've fallen for that technique myself.

One my buddy likes to use; 'Put a frog in a pot of hot water, he's gonna jump out, put him in cool water and gradually heat it up, you can have soup!!!' (not sure if I'd like frog soup) The greenies can't take big bites, we wouldn't stand for it, so the method is to continually nibble at our freedoms. No one sees the harm and one day we wake up asking 'How did this happen?' Anyway we have to look at what direction these folks are trying to point us in. Where will they have us in ten years if they accomplish X today???

Joe Chief


Posted by: KWJams---------------------

The AMA recently attended two meetings that are part of an effort to create worldwide standards for motorcycle brakes and for testing exhaust emissions.

Imre Szauter, a legislative affairs specialist in the AMA’s Government Relations Department, attended the United Nations working group meetings in Ann Arbor, Mich., and Montreal, Canada, as a non-voting participant, to offer motorcyclists’ perspectives on the issues and to observe the proceedings. Antonio Perlot, general secretary of the Federation of European Motorcyclists Associations (FEMA), also attended the Montreal meeting.

The AMA holds non-governmental-organization (NGO) status with the U.N., which allows the AMA to participate in the World Forum for the Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations, a U.N. group that is considering international motor-vehicle standards. The forum is charged with setting regulations in areas such as safety, emissions, energy efficiency and theft prevention. The United States is one of the countries that signed the agreement creating the forum, raising the possibility that standards set by the international agency could become law in America.

The Motorcycle Riders Foundation (MRF) also holds NGO status with the U.N.

“As regulations governing motorcycling become more international, we need to be involved at every level,” said Edward Moreland, AMA vice president for government relations. “That’s why the AMA, MRF and FEMA went through the lengthy process to earn NGO status with the United Nations. These three motorcycling organizations and the Federation Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM) have pledged to work together on these and other international issues, sharing information and expertise.

“And that’s why we attended the meetings of these two U.N. working groups: to ensure that motorcyclists are monitoring what is happening with proposed global regulations, to see that the voices of motorcyclists worldwide are heard, and, in particular, to express the views of American motorcyclists.”

On Oct. 22-23, Szauter attended a working group meeting in Ann Arbor related to the World Motorcycle Test Cycle, which may become the world standard for testing motorcycle emissions. The working group could produce a draft proposal as early as summer 2003.

On Oct. 25, Szauter attended a meeting of a working group in Montreal that is pursuing global regulations for motorcycle brake systems. The work is in its preliminary stages, and a final recommendation isn’t expected until after June 2004.

“Both of these working groups are in the very early stages,” Szauter said, “but it’s vital that motorcyclists are involved from the very beginning so that the decision-makers understand the needs of motorcyclists.”


Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

Well, mabey I should go back and check my facts Cr swade, very interesting stuff. You sumed it up pretty good too. it just gets me going when people can't see whats going on around them. I just don't want to grow up into a world that wont defend its freedoms. I don't want to get back into another long argument about 2 vs 4 again, but its the principle of the thing, to me anyway. I grew up riding 2-strokes also, 1971 ts185 when I was 11. That got me in love with 2-strokes. I could keep up with my friends 90'XR250 on it. After that I couldn't really picture myself riding a four stroke. I sold that bike for 600 dollars when I was 15. now that I was bikeless, I looked for a bike that would be the best for me. Then my dad bought a 99' YZ400. What a pig. Yes it was fast and smooth, but it weighed a ton, engine breaking sucked too. But I did learn that its smooth power was charactoristic that I wanted in my next bike. So I bought a 96' kdx200. A two-stroke with smooth power, from bottom to top. Loved every minute on it. I started to read on why the four stroke has all of a sudden come onto the racing scene. When I found why, it stunned me. Me and my dad always made fun of each others bike, my 2 against his 4 kinda thing. but making my 2-stroke illegal was somthing I couldn't stay quiet about. Here I am today, 18, trying to sell my 2-stroke, but not to buy a 4-stroke. I rode my friends CRF, and it is GOOD, im not saying it isn't. But its only a shade better than a 02-03 YZ250, which is what my niebor has, I can't go and buy a four stroke when its not worth it. Just curious, what size was your CR? just my 2 cents. LONG LIVE 2-STROKES!!!!!!


Posted by: beer_stud_76---------------------

kdxtodd -

a lot of what you say - particularly about radical leftist evironmentalists -is without a doubt true. but you have blunted this message by impugning an entire subset of the dirt bike universe. i ride an XR600. i do not hug trees. clear cuts look and smell like money to me (except when they obliterate a sweet line of single track). i'd just as soon tie an environmentalist to my trailer hitch and take him for a drag than look at him (or her).

do you see my point? my choice of a 4 strke has NOTHING to do with my politics. if ever i own a 2 strke (which i well might), it will have NOTHING to do with my politics. being the owner of a 4 strke doesn't make me politically ignorant, nor does it mean i have cut loose my 2 strke bretheren in the hopes that the whacko enviros will be sated with their sacrifice.

wake up (or maybe "grow up")todd. we are all on the same team.


jeremiah


Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

I never meant to disrespect those who ride XRs, I am talking about the 250cc class legal 450 four strokes.


Posted by: CR Swade---------------------

kdxtodd-
I started out w/ 125's in the 80's and have ridden 250's since 91'-that is until this 525 came along...it's sweet


Posted by: Shift-MX---------------------

kdxtodd, afraid of change? maybe. I ride a RM 125 currently, but about 2 weeks ago i had the pleasure to ride a YZ 250F for the weekend...it wasnt even comparable. And no, im no where near a greenie, its just the 250f was far superiour then my 125, hands down. But its a persons persoanl opinion right? What ever turns your crank per se.


Posted by: woodsy---------------------

Beer stud wrote:do you see my point? my choice of a 4 strke has NOTHING to do with my politics. if ever i own a 2 strke (which i well might), it will have NOTHING to do with my politics.

IMHO, this statement totally condriticts itself. The idea of us being able to choose is all about politics!! Whether we like it or not there are those folks out there that would like to take this freedom (the freedom to choose) away from us!! KDXtodd is correct and I stand with him!!

Believe me Todd, you do not stand alone!!
Oh, and by the way I own and ride BOTH because I CAN!!!
Woodsy


Posted by: beer_stud_76---------------------

woodsy -

because i like you i'll go easy:

Beer stud wrote:do you see my point? my choice of a 4 strke has NOTHING to do with my politics. if ever i own a 2 strke (which i well might), it will have NOTHING to do with my politics.

regardless of your humble opinion, this statement does not contradict itself. i bought an XR600 out of convenience. if i could have found a KTM EXC380 in a similar condition for similar money, i'd be the proud owner of a two stroke. i didn't say to myself, "self, me and you are afraid of the leftist enviro-thugs, so we better buy a 4 strke." my bike choice had nothing, naughta, zilch, zip, zero to do with my politics (i'm somewhere to the right of atilla the hun, BTW).

i say this because kdxtodd had previously said something to the effect that "buying a 4 strke is equivelent to hugging a tree" as if all 4 strke riders are in league with greenpeace. and from what i gather from kdxtodd's tone, he is all for freedom of choice as well, as long as you choose a 2 strke. this is the contradiction.

as far as that goes, i will personally fight tooth and nail to keep 2 strkes legal.

as for 450 4 strkes running in the 250 class, that is a bizzare rule. take it up with the AMA, but you can't fault individual racers for taking advantage of it.


jeremiah


Posted by: Chief---------------------

You are both entitled to your opinions, both make good points. Todd spoke his. He did not direct his statement at any individual. Beer Stud made it personal by suggesting that Todd Grow Up. Sorry for the sob story, but a little respect goes a long way on this site. Any time you insult someone you are getting off the topic and creating a ____ing contest, which is useless and boring. Posting on the forums is a privilige. I try to choose my words carefully. Rethinking my post before I submit it is a great advantage over face to face.

Joe Chief


Posted by: YZrider111---------------------

I think kdxtodd should go to his KDX forum


Posted by: woodsy---------------------

"as far as that goes, i will personally fight tooth and nail to keep 2 strkes legal."

Now your talkin Beer Stud! Thanks for going easy on me - I could have saved a WHOLE lot of typing if I would have just asked that question........
Woodsy
PS - I will recipricate in the next debate we are in


Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

I really appreaciate your comments woodsy. Its all a matter of choice. I don't really hate thumpers, there just needs to be a choice, like what woodsy said. If I could, Id love to have the best of both worlds: CR500af, and a thumper racing KTM 540sx. That would be SWEET! Im not doggin on you thumper guys, but giving up the freedom to own 2-strokes just because you 500 thumper is better than your 250 smoker, is just plain wrong. I hope there are more guys out there like woodsy, who know whats going on.


Posted by: cmott---------------------

It is really sad to see this thread go into a political debate. The post is "why do I love four strokes" not "I hat them and the "Greenies" that you all are." I was looking forward to read others opinions on why they like their four strokes. I am really surprised to see that the mods have not stepped in yet.

P.S. I like four strokes because of the engine braking along with the smooth power delivery.

P.P.S. if you own a car you own a four stoke!


Posted by: geremacheks---------------------

What about some of these 4 strokes that don't have that traditional thump-thump sound? Some do sound better than others. How to get that traditional sound on those that don't? ( Some are just too mechanical sounding--is it all in the pipe?) :silly:


Posted by: beer_stud_76---------------------

geremacheks -

which thumpers are you talking about that don't sound off with a good "thump thump"?


ps - i love 4 strkes because no one makes a 2 strke as reliable as my XR

pps - so i guess i only really love XR's.

ppps - or maybe not, because i like KTM 4 strkes quite a lot as well.

pppps - is anyone else hungry?


Posted by: wardy---------------------

LOL this was/is a great thread...........let seeeeee......

power on demand? a thumper? OK if that is power I like my bike.

the sound is ok, but a semi with a jake might sound ok also? guess its in the taste.

something mechanical is the best of course for two reasons.
1. they stall, you pass them twice, the second time is when they are pushing it back to the truck.
2. cost, just who can work on bike in the garage anymore? If anyone thinks for a minute that the manufacturers are building these things for EPA standards HA! i got a bridge to sell you. When was the last time you worked on your car? Truck? nope you take it in and Get it worked on! a top end for my bike, heck a whole cylinder etc, compare that to a thumper.....race alot of weekends on that price diffence.

The sound, that will only get riding areas and race tracks grief, or closed, another reason to think about them.
And of course the clincher, lets put 250's with 125's so they can compete, along with 450's with 250's.........a friend of mine told me not to long ago, if they were so darn good ALL the pro's would ride them......not just a few.......

BUT THE MAIN thing its done, is that it has kept interest and money flowing into a sport we all love...............so with that ...........I guess I will tolerate desiels.

wardy

LOL mix the gas? heck a quart of penzoil to 6 gals is easy enough.


Posted by: bluerider125---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by Humai


LOL! Only when you ate lots of beans!

How about&nbsp;the noise a wooden ice block stick (what's the US term - "pop stick?") made in the spokes. That was a four-stroke sound too!

&nbsp;


poscicle stick


Posted by: Zoomer---------------------

Wardy, I will agree with you on the noise issue. They need to stay/get quite!
The new KTM is not to bad, problem is every body goes and puts on after market exhaust and good by quite.

Quote:
1. they stall, you pass them twice, the second time is when they are pushing it back to the truck.


This is an INexperienced thumper rider. Once you get and learn to start a 4 stroke, It will start 1st or 2nd kick everytime. granted not quite as fast as a 2stroke, but not as bad as the mags will have you believe.


QUOTE]2. cost, just who can work on bike in the garage anymore? [/QUOTE]

Hell, I can do the top end on my Yammie as fast as i could with my old KX500
(practice, practice) :scream: and in the parking lot. (DW 02 :whiner: )[

QUOTE]And of course the clincher, lets put 250's with 125's so they can compete, along with 450's with 250's.........a friend of mine told me not to long ago, if they were so darn good ALL the pro's would ride them......not just a few.......[/QUOTE]

Which means that the 2 stroke is still the bike of choice? then why is everybody yelling foul

As for the sound like I said before, SUCK-SQUEEZE-BANG-BLOW 10,000 times per minute, nothing like a high revving diesel going down the track

Hey, just had to crank you up a bit before X-mas.

Have a great X-mas and Happy New Year Wardy :thumb:


Posted by: wardy---------------------

LOL have great zoomer holiday season also!@
ALL I want is to see thumpers quiet down, have there own classes which includes a 500 class, and not force everyone to ride/own one to race in the future. looks like that some of this will come thru so its all cool!
I sure like racing those things at Pistole's !! specially on the straights!


wardy

waiting for them to "reinvent" the 500 class again and sell a ton of open bikes! weren't thumpers the bike of choice in the early 60's? things have a way of coming home to roooooooost!!!


Posted by: Crfrider---------------------

4 strokes is better then 2 !!!!


Posted by: 02cr250r---------------------

My CRF starts first kick when it's hot EVERY TIME! just grab the clutch and hot start lever, give it a kick, and you dump it in 1st or second from a stop, and the bike will still hook up and accelerate faster than a 250 2-stroke. I ride them both on a day to day basis, and the CRF450 is, IMO, much faster then any of the 250's I ride with or on.



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