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03' TTr 225 trouble.. please help
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Posted by: Craze---------------------
ok so i went riding last sunday and as usual it got really muddy and i drove it through some water...
my friend rode it and somehow lost it and the whole front half of the bike was sitting halfway in a pool of water in a hole in the area and the other half was sitting out on the bank
so basically it was underwater for a good 5 minutes before the rest of us got there and pulled it out..
the air box on the left side under the seat was NOT underwater and NEITHER was the battery box on the right side of the seat...
now at first it wouldnt start (its electric start) but eventually it cranked and ran again so i ran it a good while to make sure its still strong...
i took it home and as usual washed it down and oiled everything took all the plastics and seat off and cleaned the battery and all the connectors and anything that was a wire that was connected to something i disconnected them all blew and cleaned them and replugged everything...
so the next day just to be sure i started it again and it worked fine i even rode it around the street a little...
now.... its friday.. 4 days later and i go to turn it on but theres nothing...
it doesnt even attempt to start...
its absolutely dead
so i went to charge the battery on trickle charge for about 9 hours and put it back in and still NOTHING...
anyone have any leads for me to check elsewhere for possible problem?
its my first dirtbike so im learning as i go
Posted by: Okiewan---------------------
Please post in the correct forum.
Moved.
Posted by: jboomer---------------------
Are you sure the key is on and the on/off switch is in the on position? Also, try bump starting it. Just to see if it runs and it's just a battery problem.
Posted by: jeffd---------------------
Most likelyh a dead battery. When they go, they go down hard!
Posted by: Craze---------------------
yes the key is on and the switch is on and im pressing the starter switch..
whats a bump start?
im going to see into charging the battery on a much more aggressive charger tonight
does anyone know the voltage of this bikes battery? its 12 V right?
Posted by: jdbrusch---------------------
Does any of the eletrical system work lights etc. does it turn over at all? With the electic start bikes there should be a fuse somewhere in the system,usually around the battery,check its location in the owners manual they are usually in a small fuse box or holder if its ok pull it out and clean the blades it may just be bad contact or try a new one.You can have the battery tested at a auto parts store or look in the Yellow pages under batteries and you should be able to find a shop that can load test it,if you need a new one they are also sometimes cheaper then the bike shops.Check to see if you have good connections at the starter motor,solinoid and grounds.You can give the starter a few taps with the handle of a screwdriver in case water got in it maybe just a stuck brush.Good luck
Posted by: Craze---------------------
it doesnt turn over at all.. totally dead
i took apart the case for the starter switch and its clean
there are no lights at all on this bike to see if the current is running
i checked the fuse and it was a bit dirty so i cleaned it and the connectors and inface the fuse was fine but i replaced it anyways.
still no start
when u say tap the starter do you mean the starter switch area or?
ill take a pic right now of bike setup and maybe that;ll help
Posted by: jboomer---------------------
Turn the key and on/off switch on (as well as the gas and probably the choke). Push like hell down the road, when you get good speed, climb on and simultaneously drop all of your weight on the back of the seat and click into second gear. You may have to keep pushing once the tire starts turning in order to get the bike to start. The battery on my wife's TTR rarely works when it's cold outside or if the bike has sat for a month or so without being started. But, once warmed up, it'll start everytime.
Posted by: Craze---------------------
when you say to push is this in neutral and then when i jump on click into second and let out the clutch while its still dead???
Posted by: Craze---------------------
http://www.imagestation.com/picture...5b/fcdcbdcc.jpg
Posted by: Craze---------------------
i was wondering actually what this was
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid44/pd9f212ebeef3eb7d509a49484a90ca0c/fcdcbdcd.jpg
Posted by: jdbrusch---------------------
Sorry Craze tap the starter motor and you can also try to tap the solinoid,should be able to find it either on the starter or follow the red+ wire running off the starter motor to a small unit with 3 wires running to it(sorry I can't describe it better).
Bump starting is pushing the bike along either by yourself or with a friend and once getting up some speed put the bike in gear with the clutch in and let go of the clutch MAKE SURE YOU ARE SITTING ON THE BIKE or it will take off on you if it starts,make sure you have the key is on.
With the battery I would not use to big a charger 1-2 amps max for overnight or you will boil it ,if it is a sealed battery it may overheat and explode.if it is not sealed remove the small caps and see is full of acid may have spilt out when bike layed down,should just cover the top of the battery plates add distilled water if low.If you uncomfortable doing this take it to a shop.The battery is 12v and will read between 12 -13 volt ,but putting it under a load with a bad cell and it can drop to 9 volts and not turn over the bike or it will turn over very slowly,but I think you have no power at all right.
Posted by: Craze---------------------
alright well i went outside and ran and did the second gear bump start..i ran with the clutch in second and let out the clutch and hit the starter button at the same time..it fired up
woo hoo the bike started with full choke and gas on and everything on and im happy so i let it warm up and let it idle for a good while..
i revved it a bit to check if its warm already and after 15 minutes of idling i think i went ahead and turned it off...
i pressed the starter button again and nothing!!
i tried repeatedly and nothing at all again...
any ideas now?
Posted by: jdbrusch---------------------
Well Craze I think we are slowly getting there, I can't bring up the picture for some reason can you describe what it is.with the bike firing up and running this narrows down the problem to the battery,starter switch,starter motor,solinoid a wire problem.Have you tried to jump the bike with cables,if the battery is shot it will fire up when jumped from a car.You can put 12v directly to the starter with a small jumper cable(wire) just touch a wire from the positive side of the battery to the positive side of the starter motor, run a ground wire from the negative bat.side a good gound on the bike before this.If the starter is ok it will turn the motor over.
Posted by: grass-digger---------------------
your battery is dead or there might be a bad connection between the starter/key switch/starting button/battery alot of work but you will have to learn sometimes
Posted by: grass-digger---------------------
ya try boosting it with another 12v battery and keep the battery hooked up when your trying to start it at least that will figure out if you have a wireing problem or if its just the battery
Posted by: Craze---------------------
i have to go out for the evening so when i get home im going to try everything you guys said...
btw can you post a pic of what the starter should look like? i know what the rest do
also you mention solenoid? pic of that?
to view the pics copy and paste those URL's into your address bar
Posted by: jdbrusch---------------------
Sorry Craze but I have no way of posting any pictures.I was able to get your picture up,what are you looking for? I hope it is not the big white thing in the middle that says Yuasa,that is your battery haha.anyways I brought up a picture on your bike, the starter is located right in front of the motor ahead of the oil filter above the skid plate.The starter solenoid I am not sure, follow the red+ wire coming off the bat and then follow the main wire coming off the starter motor they should join at the solenoid(also known as the starter relay) looks like it maybe mounted just to the right of the bat.with the blue and brown wires running to it.
Posted by: Bar-Bender---------------------
Heh craze,
I have an 01 TTR250 in which had a similar problem. If the starter button is a grey button marked starter and a red on off kill switch above the starter button you must disassemble this switch and clean it, then put a dielectric grease on the contacts. The kill switch is most likely causing your problem. I have had to clean this switch numerous times as it collects dirt and moisture very easily. While you have the tank and seat off disconnect all the connectors and check for corroded terminals. I have had a 12 volt male pin inside a four way connector disentegrate. Clean all these connectors and squirt a dielectric grease inside them. If you want to confirm that the kill switch is the problem, disassemble the switch hold needle nose pliars across the terminals and hit the start button the engine should try to crank over. Good luck.
Posted by: woodsy---------------------
Do TTR's have an interlock on the kickstand or clutch? If so, check em!
Woodsy
Posted by: Craze---------------------
ok guys your help is very invaluable.... ive been able to narrow it down
i just finished taking apart the starter button case and checked the contacts and all are good and i wiped them down with my shirt
now i have a question... the contact point between the starter button and the contact point connected to the wires... is it bad to wipe those points with a shirt clean? i didnt put any grease because i dont have any yet
just before i wiped them though i took the button and held it hard and the bike started turning over and i pressed it a few times and it kept doing it...
then i wiped them and tried it again and dead again.... is it very important to have this grease on there to promote curent?
Posted by: Craze---------------------
woo hoo finally found the problem... its the kill switch... i ran a saftey pin across the two soulder points and it started every single time...
Posted by: Craze---------------------
i wiped the copper points behind them attached to the kill switch itself and the copper points they touch when switched to on....
but still doesnt work unless i run the safety pin across the two soulder points on the other side....
you say by putting this conductive grease on the points it should work again?
Posted by: Craze---------------------
i have some grease i got when i bought a cpu chip when i built my last pc to place between the cpu chip and the heatsink,..
will that work?
Posted by: jdbrusch---------------------
Wiping the contacts clean with a shirt should be ok,the grease that you would apply is mainly there to protect the contacts in the future it sould not have any real affect by appling it now,clean the contacts with a very fine sandpaper even a eraser may work.if you have a air compressor(even one of those small aerosol cans used for cleaning pc's may work) try to get any moisture out of the switch,wipe down the contacts with some rudding alcohol, let it dry and try it again.Try to get some dielectric grease from a auto store and go over ALL the connections on the bike,you can also ask the parts person if they have a aerosol spray that coats the contacts in the switches with a thin layer of film to protect them from moisture.A electronics store will surely carry it,also the grease. I have some at work and spray down circuit boards in machines working in wet conditions sorry I can't recall the name of it at this time.
Posted by: Bar-Bender---------------------
Follow JD's cleaning guide and you will be fine. The dielectric grease will slow down the corrosion it does not promote conductivity between the two contact points. Your next step is to be careful when assembling the switch case. It is made of plastic and will bow outward when installing the red kill switch. Be sure to install the red switch tabs into the body of the case correctly otherwise you will not have good contact when the switch is engaged. The only real way to test this is by completely assembling the switch and installing on the handlebars. I consider cleaning this switch routine maintenance when powerwashing and riding in muddy wet conditions all the time.
Posted by: jboomer---------------------
Something I'm curious about -- you said that the only way you can get it to start is by jumping the contacts with a paperclip? But, with the kill switch installed it won't start? Try holding the button of the kill switch down (like you are trying to turn the bike off) and hitting the start button. I'm curious if maybe you've been putting the switch back together wrong.
Posted by: IrishEKU---------------------
Quote:
Originally posted by Bar-Bender
The kill switch is most likely causing your problem. .
|
I doubt that would be the problem since he was able to bump start it. The problem is steming from the starting system for sure. I wold check your regulator #8 and your starter relay #21 for shorts. Another problem that could be shorting out your starting system could be a posative ground in your starter. This happens when your power wire to the starter is in dirct contact with a ground and will drain the battery and cause your problems.
Posted by: Craze---------------------
well its morning time .. 11 am...
i did what was said and cleaned the kill switch contact points and i took an eraser and rubbed them down..
i carefully assembled it all togeter but still no go unless running the safety pin across the contact points...
this is getting a bit annoying since i know now what the problem is (kill switch contact points) and yet still no go.. ill find some fine sandpaper and see if tat helps any
Posted by: jdbrusch---------------------
The kill switch should be open in order for the bike to fire,to stop the engine when pressing on the kill switch it creates a ground stopping the ignition.I find it strange that the only way you can get it to fire is to connect the contacts on the kill switch.If you bump start it does the kill switch stop the motor or do you have to turn it off with the key?Like IrishEKU says ther might be a problem with the starter solenoid(relay) see if it is a sealed unit if it is not try to spray some WD40 in it ,it may have some moisture in it.
Posted by: Craze---------------------
grrr i see what the problem is...
when i assemble the kill switch to the contact points and the whole thing together for some reason the contact point plate keeps popping up just a tad making enough distance for the switch to not touch it...
i know this for sure because when i hold the contact plate down to the kill switch points and try cranking it goes everytime but when i take pressure off the plate nothing again.... the plate is in correct though.. the two tabs are in their squares and the small arm goes into the kill switch hole..
Posted by: Craze---------------------
heres pics of what im doing and dealing with
copy and paste the url's into address bar
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid44/p2e45bb05ac6cad2326532d8f44648b77/fcdb360a.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid44/p69ac41bada7cb64cddf3828ab42332af/fcdb3609.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid44/p50852fa861e3dc26caf7f0f47cb3e7c8/fcdb3607.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid44/p47d45c13da51d1a303cd8c0bb0894344/fcdb3606.jpg
Posted by: jboomer---------------------
Is there a spring or something missing that goes behind that plate you're having troubles with? Also, is that plate activated by the starter switch ---- meaning, when you press the start switch, does the plate move forward and make contact with those two prongs? You're getting there!!!
Posted by: Craze---------------------
no those pics are of the kill/on switch... when you push the red peice down the copper plates make contact with the plates on the contact points (black plate)
yes there is a spring just below the copper plates of the kill switch and i checked it and it seems to be holding it up right...
Posted by: plykins---------------------
Thanks for the info also. Having similar probs.
Posted by: jdbrusch---------------------
Hey Craze was just wondering if you had any luck finding out what the starting problem was?
Posted by: Craze---------------------
yea the contact points between the kill switch copper plate and the circuit points was just really poor... i basically stretched the spring a tiny bit under the kill switch plate to give more force and sanded all the points and mounted it all again and it works great now...
thats all it was... just a stupid loose connection..
many days of work trying to find that cause
thanks for all the info though!!!!
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