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ATK 700cc Intimidator

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Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

First off, hello to everyone. This is my first post after joining yesterday. I have not had a bike since 94', but have riddin a few friends bikes since then (91' KX250, YZ400F 4stroke, and an 02' XR650). I have been more addicted to muscle cars, but I am thinking about switching back. I have a 72' Olds 442 455ci currently, and I'm thinking about selling it in a year or so when its done being restored. So to my real question here, the biggest bike I have had has been a CR250, and I sold it because it wasn't fast enough. It was quick, yes, but not enough top speed. I'm in the desert so I think if I get back into bikes, I'm going to get my first big bore. I just came accross some references to the new ATK 620/700cc Intimidator's. I looked around the net and naturally found the ATK sight, but other than that, no new info besides the initial outing of the 700. I'm curious, has there been any new info/tests yet? Its been along time since I had any MX subscriptions, so I was wondering if any of the mags have gotten a test ride yet? Any new details, or upcoming tests/comparo's with either the 620 or 700cc ATK's would be appreciated. Thanks guys, and I can't wait to get back into bikes, Laurence.


Posted by: nephron---------------------

I'd wait for a test.
Word has it many have broken their left ankles trying to start it. Can you imagine a 700cc 2 smoke with no auto decompress?

Also, I hear it may not wind up any higher than 4 or 5 thousand rpm. This probably has something to do with the 39PWK, airbox and exhaust--all of which look entirely out of place for that bike. My guess is a well tuned 500 would smoke it's ass.

The 620 is supposed to be better. They're beautiful. But I'd wait until a multitude of tests have been done. Also, I'm sure if you could meet Frank White in the desert (CEO), he'd let you ride it. That's the kind of guy he is.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

I had read somewhere, that they did have a decompression lever, not sure though. I guess I'll have to go stare at the couple of pics I've located so far, to see if I can spot it.

Likewise I agree with the small carb. It actually reminds of an article I have in one of my early 80's mags. Where coincidently, Maico built a .....oh I beleive it was a 760cc bike. If I remember right they stuck the motor in one of the last of their dual rear shockers, and it had the same issue. Small carb for the cc, and didn't rev much. I only saw the one test on that one, and it never went into production I guess.

Man the pics I've seen though, the 04' ATK's sure look awesome.

I can't wait for some tests, but right now I'm guessing your probably right that a properly jetted 500 would walk all over it. Maybe the 620 will be a different story.

I more than likely will be after a KX500 myself. I had numerous KX's in the 1980's, so I do still carry a little brand loyalty fealings for them. Hell when I had any one of the different KX80's I owned then, I could actually embarrass many 125 riders. Of course I was a bit of a no fear nut back then. I'd see guys on 250's and 500's taking big air jumps at the local tracks, and I'd watch with the 125 guys for a bit, and then freak them out by going for it and pulling it off myself. Oh man that brings back some great memories.

I think I remember the KX500's being a little better suited to smaller riders? I will need that as I'm still only 5' 8"s. Even though I'm vertically challenged, at least I lift weights and maintain a bodyweight of 185-195 and its not fat, not all of it anyways, lol. So, I'm hoping I'll be able to still amaze some of my old riding buddies by catching some major air like the good old days. It ought to really freak out my buddies to see me doing it on a 500. Right out of high school, before I could afford to step up from a KX80, my friends would all want me to take the big local jumps on their 125's and 250's as they were to chicken.

Man just thinking about all the fun I used to have riding is making me really anxious to get a bike again. Plus I still have one old friend that has never gotten out of riding and he goes riding fairly often. So I already have somebody to roost on. Thanks and I look forward to more input, Laurence.


Posted by: nephron---------------------

I'm the exact same height and weight ( a little less now (180)) as you are. I USED to bench 345 at the middle of a pyramid of weights, and am no weakling. But remember that Wardy rode the piss out of one on SX. You can, too. Provided you understand these are totally different bikes than 125's and 250's. Yes, they can be a bear around a track...mostly because they're staunch, have some degree of motor rotational inertia stubbornness, and vibrate the skin literally off your hands.

That said, if you want more...ATK HA! A guy @ B&B racing (Il.?) who makes nitrous fed KX250's for icetrack and hillclimbing makes a KX640!!! :scream: Hell, I can't use what I've got now. It's like an instant turn of the throttle, and if you're not hanging on...the bike's gone, and you're sittin' in an ant pile!


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

Right on, most I've benched has been 275 for 2 reps, but thats been some time ago. I'm actually just getting back into lifting weights and am making rapid gains each week. Love that muscle memory effect. I'm almost passed the initial extreme soreness period of having been a lazy ass for too long. I'm hoping a shoulder injury I suffered about a year ago, that was still noticable untill just a few months ago, dose not hold me back from getting back in shape. So far the shoulder injury has not been an issue, but I'm trying to be a little cautious, and not push things to fast.

Ya, I actually thought of good old Jeff Ward and did a search to find his size. As I remembered he wasn't to big. Came up with 5' 7"s @ 170#, when he won the 500 Nationals in like 89'/90' ish I think it said. It also said, I believe, that he did it 2 years in a row.

I know guys put weights in the ends of the bars for the vibration, but what else can be done? I remember something about shaving weight off the mag also, but I don't remember if that was just to quicken the revs or ? on certain 500's. Shaving the mag. would probably add to the vibration, I'd think.

KX 640 huhh, wow, I'll have to see if I can find any details on the net. Sounds scary (fun), on Nitrous too, awesome!

Whats the approx. top speed on a KX500 (stock gearing)? I wonder what the desert racing guys are doing to them? I'll do some investigateing when I can.

Thanks, Laurence.


Posted by: nephron---------------------

The desert guys are going over 110 with desert gearing. Don't know the details. Ask Destry or Farmer John.


Posted by: MX2_motorex---------------------

Have they actualy made decompression levers for two strokes? I'm just curios how do they work?


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

I'm about to call it a day as its late, but I just thought I'd tune in one more time for today.

I looked for big bore kits on the net and the biggest thing I could come up with was a 520 something cc kit for the KX500. Saw a 600 something for Banshee's which was interesting.

A couple of things I came across that I thought where awesome was a Perimeter frame kit for KX500's which brought all the geometery in line with modern 250's and included the use of 02' KX250 plastic. That was killer, they switched everything from a 91' over.

The other was a CR500AF, a 500 motor in a modified CR250 frame, the reviews of it said it was the baddest 500 these testers had ever thrown a leg over. Don't know if its still available as it was a dealer using new bikes and new 500 motors from Honda, and since Honda dropped the CR500, it might be unobtanium already.

I've been out of this stuff for so long I'm soaking all the info up like a spunge.

Finally, I could not see any close ups of the handle bars on the big 04' ATK's to see if there was an extra lever, but in the close up of the 700cc ATK (Maico) engine its got a cable coming out of the side of the cylinder that looks suspiciously like they do in fact have a decompression feature. I could be wrong, but what else could it be?

Talk at ya later, Laurence.


Posted by: TwinSpar---------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by BadBronco
The other was a CR500AF, a 500 motor in a modified CR250 frame, the reviews of it said it was the baddest 500 these testers had ever thrown a leg over. Don't know if its still available as it was a dealer using new bikes and new 500 motors from Honda, and since Honda dropped the CR500, it might be unobtanium already.


The AF's are still available.  Check out http://www.servicehonda.com :thumb:


Posted by: nephron---------------------

KX640


John Boschma
B&B Racing
tecate and 2 stroke specialist

14847 Misty Meadow ln.
So.Beloit IL. 61080 U.S.A.
1-815-389-4945
1-608-201-2980
1-608-346-4945
bandbracing@charter.net

Would I lie? NO.
There's also a website. I saw it on Ebay once. I don't recall, but could find it in 5 seconds.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

lol, I beleive you nephron, I don't know about anyone else, but I beleive you.
Just kidding! I tried the web address, but it said under construction on my end. Plugged in B&B racing Tecate and 2 stroke specialists, using Google search engine, and still didn't see any info. Thats OK for now though, as I'm quite aways from being able to get a bike yet. I'll try the web addy in the coming days.

On the ATK I did notice they had a link to a brief test by.....oh, I think it was a dirt bike mag tester. He got a quick ride on the 700cc and it didn't sound like much fun to me. The guy said no matter what position the throttle was in the thing just would not rev. Lots of power he said, but very electric fealing. Hopefully the 620cc will rev a bit, I would think that would be alot more fun.

I think at this point I'm just going to plan on getting a 500 for now, and start saving my pennies. Maybe I'll get lucky and the AF will still be available by the time I can afford a new bike. The factory's sure have left the 500's alone technology wise. Hell Kawi is the only one still making a 500 2 stroke, from what I can see. I really get the sense now more than ever that they are trying to almost get away from 2 strokes or something. It will be a sad day in my opinion, if 2 strokes are no longer available to the public. Talk to you guys later, Laurence.


Posted by: nephron---------------------

Man, if you need more power than an AF, CR or KX500...you're one Bad Bronco. ESPECIALLY when these things are tuned right, and even slightly modified.

But I hear ya. I'm thinking about the 640 thing just for the novelty of it, then if they ruin it...I can get another motor somewhere.

Here's my personal opinion on the matter (and it's probably wrong, you'd have to ask Gorr to be sure): I think 500cc for a single cylinder 2 stroke is about the limit. To get more cc's, you'd have to go oversquare to keep the rpms up. However, that'd create havoc with starting, a la ATK700--many have literally broken their feet or ankles trying to start it. If you didn't go oversquare, you'd have to make hellacious ports (length), which probably wouldn't help top end much.

Just get an AF.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

I agree, that makes sense to me. I just hope the AF is still available when I have some $$$$.


Posted by: nephron---------------------

It will be, and if it isn't...you can buy used. There's a bunch of 'em out there for sale--I'm not sure why. I would have gotten one instead of my bike (which I am still VERY happy with), had I known about them.


Posted by: Blitz393---------------------

that guy, that makes 640 Tecate4's is a member on my homepage, www.allthingsmoto.com (i'm trying not to spam) under the username KillerKX327, send him a PM or Email. he has pics of a KX500 bored to 640 and heavily modded, then shoved into a Tecate4 quad chassis, on the dyno it turns over 160 bhp (according to him) i have yet to see a dyno, but considering a STOCK KX5 comes with 60+ horsepower, i can only imagine what a bore job, port/polish, milled head, pipe, spray, and reeds can do to one of these monsters. granted, it is in a Quad but hey, the guy knows his stuff regardless of his scoot choice :confused:

Rob


Posted by: Blitz393---------------------

i almost forgot, the CR500af's are around $8,000 dollars from service honda, and the KX500's are around 5k, BUT the af is in the third generation aluminum frame, no offence to AJ but IMO i dont want to spend 3 grand on a CR250 chassis, but that is just me. i would tend to think the rigid(er) aluminum frame would vibrate worse than the KX, and i could be way off base here too. at 16 years old i havent had the privelage of riding either one of these prehistoric torque monsters

hope that helped

Rob


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

Right on. I had thought about the increased rigidity of the frame on the AF. When I was looking around the net I remember either the AF or the perimeter frame KX500 kit I came across had some reference to rubber isolated handle bars. When I get closer to being ready to get a bike I will definetly be looking into that.


Posted by: 1jeep---------------------

I ride a 95 CR500r, it came with factory rubber mounted bars. I currently run a fat bar with the mounts in rubber on the triple clamp and still it vibrates horribly caompared to any 250. If your planning to buy a CR500 you better ride one first to make sure it's what you want. Another nice desert bike is a XR650R, they can be made to keep up with a cr500 for short money.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

Really, I didn't know the XR650 could be made to run that hard. My friend that still rides has an 02' XR650. I don't get a chance to catch up with my friend to often, but I have had a couple of opportunities to make a few laps on it. I was not all that impressed with its acceleration.

I had so much experience on the several different worked KX 80's when I was young (I had an 83', 84', and an 85'), all of my KX 80's had the 100cc kit imediately thrown at them. Now granted I was much lighter back then, but my 80's were all rockets and would easily hike the front end up constantly with out any effort. The 80's I had would walk all over every other 80cc I ever encountered, and except for the wheel dia. and suspension advantage of the 125's I could usually frustrate the hell out of those guys to. I remember an article in a mag. where they litterally said that the KX 80 with the 100cc kit brought it up to a power to weight level of the 500's hence I had no problem doing 3rd gear starts and roosting all over the local 125 hotshots.

As a result of those experiences I have always really preferred bikes that will catch you off guard with the front end hiking antacs.

The 85' CR250 I had was worked, ie, full port/polish, milled head, and pipe. This 250 was an antique by 1994 standards, but if the handling was not an issue I could run down locals who raced that I would hook up with at the local desert practice tracks. On starts my 250 would usually pull on early 90's 250's. I sold my 250 because it just wasn't enough power, it had to have a very fresh rear tire for me to ever get cought off gaurd by the front end hiking up. My other friends 91' KX250 is a bit more hyper (fun), but for any high speed stuff, forget it I need 2 more gears. Then finally the only other bike I've ridden thats worth mentioning was another guy I know who briefly had a 98' YZ400F, it had a bit more top speed (not enough), but just not enough balls for the true fun I used to have on my killer little 80's when I was young.

So at this point due to the kind of riding I will probably be doing some MX tracks (a little less focus than when I was younger), much more high speed desert long distance runs that are popular local 4x4 trails. I'm convinced its gonna take a big bore to satisfy my craving for HP. I will also be doing quite a bit of riding up in the forests of northern AZ which are at approx. 7000', so I have some concerns about any of the big 4 strokes due to the fact that I know the 2 strokes don't take as big of an hp hit from the thinner air.

Sorry for rambling, I'm just so excited to get another bike. I'll look into the XR650 mods a bit though, as that has me curious.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

Did a little looking into the XR650 possibilities. Found a desert racers bike and other info. Looks like they are nice out of the box, but in an effort to conform to emissions, Honda has them fairly restricted on the intake side. I think it said 45 hp (I think is was) stock, with factory mods 55 hp, and then if you go for max they claimed this guys baja bike had 67 hp. I read a test of this guys desert bike and they claimed it would run with out of the box 500 2 strokes, or so they felt. This guys bike had been either clocked or radared at 114 mph in some last race prior to this particular article. The testers said that with the factory upgrades/mods you could expect approx. 105 mph or a little better with proper gearing. They really liked the bike and couldn't believe how hard it pulled and how stable it was. The only short coming they mentioned was that if you came down hard such as over shooting a landing jump, well then you absolutely noticed the increase in weight as compared to your average MX er. However, they indicated there was a benefit to the added weight that I hadn't thought of but makes sense, which is that you didn't feal certain bumps like you would on a lighter bike, because the added weight of the bike forced the suspension to absorb more (interesting).

My fealing at this particular point is that for the added money to make the XR650 rock, at least if your starting with a new bike, that a person could get on the CR500AF.

I also came across some video clips from a guy in some races with a camera mounted on his helmet. He was riding a CR500 and man I forgot just how awesome a 500cc 2 stroke sounds.

When I finally have the funds together, it will be a tough choice. The cost may certainly dictate my decision when the time comes. If I can afford it, I will be all over the CR500AF. If thats just not feasable, it is going to be a very difficult choice between the XR650 or a CR/KX 500. The sound of a 4 stroke just doesn't do much for me, at least not compared to a 500cc 2 stroke. C Ya.


Posted by: cactusreid---------------------

You might want to try a big 4 stroker like a ktm 520/640 series or a te 610 husky for your high speed desert fun. I rode a stock 2000 610 husky( with works suspension) in baja last fall for a 10 day trip. if you want speed and power the husky's a great choice. when you lift your head up going across a dry lake bed in 6th gear the wind just about rips your head off. as far as I'm concerned that's plenty fast enough!! they will also handle the long drawn out high speed runs a lot better that the 2 smokes.Don't get me wrong,I love my gasgas Ec 300 2 stroke for the tight bush, hills,xcountry kind of riding I do here in B.C. canada-but in the desert I'd take a big 4 stroke every time.


Posted by: gwcrim---------------------

The day will come when you will no longer have the choice of two stroke or four. Don't wait until The Man outlaws them. You know you love two strokes. I can hear it in your voice. Follow your Zen.

Either a KX640 or a CR500AF is what will make you smile the most. A "plain old" KX500 would suffice. (Like that's a bad thing!) The sound... the smell... the arm yanking hit of a big bore powerband...... aaahhhhhh....... Yeah, you know what you want!

But seriously, the KX and the CR are both backed up by deep parts bins and a big dealer network. Parts for the ATK may become hard to find and expensive.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

I guess I am having some difficulty with the concept of having a 4 stroke, its not that obvious is it.

I went by my buddies house (who has the XR650) last night. As if I needed more torture of not having my own bike. I didn't get another ride on it (it was to late), we just rapped about bikes all night. My friend and I were always very competative. He has already told me he's gonna "stuff me in a corner". "I said your not going to be anywhere near close enough". So we have picked up right where we had left off years ago when we used to go riding. He has forgotten that I used to be the better rider. Operative word being, used to be. My gut fealing is that even on my first ride, I will have some moments of my old WOT speed and that within a matter of weeks he's gonna be in trouble. My friend also informed me that he still has a 98' XR600 that he is probably getting back from another friend as they couldn't agree on a sales price on it. Aparently his old 600 has some mods and will run with his 650 and due to gearing changes its actually got quite a bit more top speed. So I may at least get some riding oportunities before I even get my own bike. Which is good, but man I hate having to take it easy on someone else's bike.

My friend was touching on one of the reasons in his opinion that the XR's dominate (his words) Baja. Was that the 500's won't rev as much in reality as the big 4 strokes, so his fealing is that there is a speed advantage there. My friend also reiterated the fact that the added weight really does add alot to the stability at speed and keeps the bike from reacting to as many bumps.

I really am getting the fealing that when I start riding with my friend again, that the majority of the riding is going to be 15 - 25+ mile runs, as thats what he and his friends have been doing. Which is making me give more consideration to a big 4 stroke. I can't believe I just actually said that, as I am still having trouble realizing that 4 strokes are for more than just enduros these days.

I think eventually I will just have to have both a big 2 stroke and 4 stroke. But initially its going to be very difficult for me to decide.


Posted by: nephron---------------------

There was a 'shootout' :silly: in DIRTBIKE several months ago b/t the KX500, XR650 and KTM520mxc or exc. The XR650, with the fenders and number plate pulled off ran a few miles an hour faster than the KX on top end, while the KX pulled everything from a start or roll on. Pretty badly, too.

As I recall: Topend--1)XR650 2)KX500 3)KTM520
Acceleration--1)KX500 2)KTM 520 3)XR650
'Throttle response'--1)KTM 520 2) KX500 3) XR650
Most stable--XR650 and KX500 were both good.
'Handling in the tight stuff' 1) KTM 520 2) KX500 3) XR650


The biggest 'brute' to ride: KX500, of course.
However, the KX500 had the Zip Ty pipe and tank, which takes some off the top end (I've got it on mine).

Their conclusion was: where has the open bike gone? 'We've not come as far as we thought'.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

So other than the missing parts on the XR, these were basically stock bikes???? Like as in no major mods to the engine.


Posted by: nephron---------------------

Yeah, they were stock. And all the bikes were stripped to some degree. I can't recall exactly. It makes sense, since the XR650 is higher geared before the countershaft sprocket (I think) and that huge thumper motor probably doesn't suffer torque deficiencies against a serious wind.

Have you ever been over 120 on a dirtbike? I'm sure there's a little resistance. I made 4900 miles in 9 days on a VMax once, which required valley and canyon speeds of 140 plus--frequently--no windshield or anything. I felt like a piece of leather after that ride.

If you're looking for a 'primarily' desert bike, you can't beat a KX500. I'm not being biased at all either. The results speak for themselves, and this bike with a Scott's damper is unmovable at speed. Nothing jigs it. Nothing scares it. Not even a slight wiggle when you hit a cement block at 40. It's as stable as they come, and faster than hell.

When I'm done with this motor, I might have Gorr port it for more top end. I might try it myself. :scream: If I ruin it, I guess he can epoxy it. If not, there's probably a replacement cylinder out there for a few bucks.

BTW, I've ridden the KTM, and it's an AWESOME bike. Very, very fun to ride. I want one. The KX is just a different beast--really pissed and vibrating a lot, but can be tamed with throttle control.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

First I want to thank you for all your input nephron. Likewise thanks to everyone else. I've been out of the bike loop for along time.

So, nephron, what were your thoughts on the KTM 520, and was it an MXC or EXC ?


Posted by: nephron---------------------

It was an MXC. I rode it at a small track. It was absolutely awesome. The motor spooled up quick like a 2 stroke (NOT like the XR650), the bike felt VERY light (no matter what the ignorant mags say), the power was JUST right. A lot of torque, very quick throttle response, very nimble...I could tell on this SMALL track that I was probably faster than I would have been on the beast.

I liked it so much, I almost bought it. I want another bike...just because. But I can't make my mind up b/t an Orange Thumper (they're beautifully built), or a really light, nimble 125 (I'd go RM, most likely. I love those Yellow Turds (drn term...), and am just about to kill myself on the tracks with this KX500. Then again, I'm just an average rider. Somebody better than me, like little Jeff Ward, could make a KX500 sing on a small track. You might be able to as well.

Your best bet would be to go to Dirtweek (which I can't--yet ). I've read multiple posts where a lot of these nice gals and guys were loaning each other their bikes for any and whatever reason.


Posted by: ArmPump---------------------

I just picked up a buddy's 2000 Service Honda CR500 a month ago. It is so much better handling than the steel frame units. It carves corners like a scalpel, tracks well thru the whoops, gets airborne well, stops on a dime and mid-corner line changes are easy, too, and it's only 7 lbs heavier than a CR250. I don't say that easily, either, as I just got off my 5th in a row steel frame CR500, the last being a '98, set up well.

I've wanted an AF since I first saw them. There are AFs for sale used and most people take good care of them. Do it, you won't be sorry.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

I'd love to get my hands on an AF CR500 also. Considering what I've read, I believe you, without any doubt.

If you don't mind me asking, what did you have to give for your buddy to let that CR500AF go? I'm curious what the going rate is for a used one? I'm also curious why would someone sell one (excluding a need for money)?

Thanks, Laurence.


Posted by: nephron---------------------

Quote:
I'm also curious why would someone sell one (excluding a need for money)?


Not everyone wants a handfull?


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

You mean some people want to own just one bike for all situations? I thought you need a bike for each local riding oportunity? lol.....Just kidding, ya I thought of that after I posted it. Who knows, when I get back into riding maybe I won't be such the WFO nut that I used to be. However, my hopes are that I still have the need to push the limits a bit. Thanks.


Posted by: nephron---------------------

I'm starting to wonder about the same thing. As a kid, I rarely injured myself. In this last 15 months, I've injured myself pretty badly several times, once requiring surgery. This weekend I woke up in a cornfield surrounding a local track, broken helmet, concussion...

It's just gotta be a series of bad luck--can't be that I'm just gettin' old, can it?


Posted by: gwcrim---------------------

OUCH! Sorry to hear that. You otherwise OK?


Posted by: nephron---------------------

Yeah--other than balance and thinking slow to improve..and new bruises popping up every day. Both my hands got butchered, and I don't know how. My helmet's no good anymore.


Posted by: BadBronco---------------------

Yeah, I'm really sorry to hear that as well.

Hope you recover quickly. Sounds like a hard hit.

Were you out for long?

Thats got to be a bit scary to wake up in that kind of situation.

Any damage to the beast?

Take care, Laurence.


Posted by: TexKDX---------------------

Ask Patman - he MXed the 500AF at Dirt Week a few years ago.

Compression releases in a 2 stroke? Ah you kids these days. Used to be lots of 2 smokes with 2 sparkplug holes had them. Really popular in flat track, short track particularly.

Nothin' like a Bultaco 360 screaming into a turn neck and neck with an Ossa, then PFFFTTTT the biggest fart sound you ever heard as they pull the compression release with the throttle still WFO.


Posted by: scooter1130---------------------

Now that ATK is the new owner of Cannondale, do you think they will try to make a 700cc fuel injected 2 stroke



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