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Seville SX Tonight!
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Posted by: JuliusPleaser---------------------

The World Supercross 125 class will air tonight at 8pm Eastern time on ESPN2.

The 250's are on Sunday at 1pm Eastern.

Woohoo!

Dec. 6 2004 THQ WORLD SUPERCROSS GP (125 CC)
SEVILLA, SPAIN 8:00 pm to 9:00 pm

Dec. 7 2004 THQ WORLD SUPERCROSS GP (250CC)
THQ WORLD SUPERCROSS GP
SEVILLA, SPAIN 1:00 pm to 2:00 pm

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Cool!!!! Thanks for reminder Pony!!!!

Posted by: biglou---------------------

Provided, of course, that the World Series of Poker, or the Women's Division 1A Collegiate Backgammon Tournament, or the National 3rd Grade (7-8 y/o) Spelling Bee doesn't go long...

Posted by: Erick82---------------------

Check your dates, I think it is this year.

Posted by: mx547---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by BigLou
Provided, of course, that the World Series of Poker, or the Women's Division 1A Collegiate Backgammon Tournament, or the National 3rd Grade (7-8 y/o) Spelling Bee doesn't go long...

they actually had a scrabble tournament on a couple weeks ago.

Posted by: biglou---------------------

I saw that listed. Personally, I can't see why ESPN doesn't cash in on the "cool factor" of dirtbikes and even show reruns of races past. Heck, I just watched Bar To Bar 2002 and 2003 a couple weeks ago, and realised a couple things-One, I forgot how much drama there really has been in the last couple seasons, and two, I forgot who won most races and found myself excited to watch them again and rooting for riders to win! On another note, "World Series of Poker"? It was on the other day at the gym. I figure, if you're smokin cigarettes (really) while your participating in your "sport", it ain't a sport! Although one of the other members said he enjoyed watching it and that it was actually quite interesting after I verbally beat it down... oops!

Posted by: vern#19---------------------

Did You ever notice that when you have TV covarage the LIVE web cast doesnt work?

Posted by: KXTodd---------------------

Wow! What a mess that race was, that's the worse I've seen except maybe the Canadian motocross race last year.

Posted by: jfisher304---------------------

That was UGLY......looked like a really bad indoor GNCC

Posted by: TOTALL---------------------

Holy crap!!! What a mud bog :scream: :scream:

Posted by: James---------------------

GO Suzuki!!! Who would have thought there would be 4 Suzukis in the top 7 at any event???

That race looked like Truespode and I at the local series.

Posted by: mxer842---------------------

who says suzukis are not reliable? congrats to daryl hurley and paul lindsey they have come along way in a few years

Posted by: prvt.pyle---------------------

That was really impressive, those rm 250 2 strokes

Posted by: zcookie49---------------------

That was absolutely crazy!!!!
Definately not used to seeing riders having both of their legs out walking over the jumps!!!
I cant believe they even had the race.

Posted by: ScottYZ250---------------------

That was rediculous, yet impressive. Metal Mulisha on the podium, sweet!

Posted by: kelsorat---------------------

At first I was getting pissed that there was no coverage of the heat races. Now I know why--what a mess.

Posted by: JuliusPleaser---------------------

The show kinda sucked without Bailey.

Posted by: DPW---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Julius Pleaser
The show kinda sucked without Bailey.

I thought the show kind of sucked with all the mud and the fact that they only showed about 15 minutes of racing and a bunch or crude from last year....

Posted by: Sawblade---------------------

That has to be one of the biggest jokes ever for professional SX. They should have pulled the event. I'll be the first to say it, just like GL's 125 championship. There may not be a asterisk in the offical race book, but in many people's mind there will be.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

I would have rather watched that than the Big 12 Championship, lol.
It made it easy to stop switching back and fourth though. Both shows SUCKED!

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Sounds like we have alot of fair weather fans here. I thought it was cool and some good racing.

Posted by: jboomer---------------------

Good racing? Pfft! Heck, one of us could've won that race! 8 laps, zero skill required (although Langston did a pretty good job), no REAL racers, and the announcing sucked! It was funny to watch, but I agree it should've been cancelled.

Posted by: rv6junkie---------------------

Looked like me at DW04 on Monday!

What a shame. I don't blame the racers or the event managers, but that was some of the worst racing I've ever seen.

Posted by: kmccune---------------------

Why should they cancel it, a bunch of guys lined up and went as fast as they could. One guy went faster or lasted longer then the rest. Sounds like a race to me. Besides it was on dirt (or mud) and they rode on two wheels.

Kevin

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

and they rode on two wheels.

Yeah... with outriggers, lol!

Posted by: truespode---------------------

I absolutely LOVED that race. It was awesome!!

The heart and stamina of riders really showed through. It was amazing.

I have ridden quite a few mud races so I know a lot of how they feel even though the mud I rode was A LOT less and easier to ride.

Like James said it reminded us of some of the local races we have done. They are not fun but afterward you are rewarded if you finish jus by having a great story to tell.

I enjoyed watching that race a lot but I understand why some of you didn't. I told a friend it was a race that most people would hate unless they were like me and a few of my friends.

BTW, did any 4-strokes finish the race? I think every 4-stroke overheated or blew up in one shape or form.

Iavn

Posted by: DPW---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Truespode

BTW, did any 4-strokes finish the race? I think every 4-stroke overheated or blew up in one shape or form.

Iavn

Ahh....4th Heath Voss

Posted by: kelsorat---------------------

Let's just hope that the new TV format doesn't continue to show abbreviated "back-story" in lieu of televising the heat races. And those commercial breaks were long and too frequent. I hope that the reason for both these bores was because of the track conditions.

Posted by: Ol'89r---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Truespode

The heart and stamina of riders really showed through. It was amazing.

Iavn

I agree Ivan.

That made me tired just watching those guys paddle thru that slop.

Ol'89r

Posted by: Bill Hibbs---------------------

I think Voss was on a two stroke.

Posted by: truespode---------------------

I just re-watched the heat races (today's show has the heats) and Heath was on a 2-stroke.

Ivan

Posted by: atc3434`---------------------

Not racing hah! That was racing, and a whole lot of work. Looked like a fun challenge to me. That guy on the KTM in the first 250 heat was fly'n. It was pretty amazing to see all those bikes taking such a beating, so many of them blew up. Congrats to zuki, they obviously have a pretty strong bike. There wasn't a bike there that didn't boil out the coolant. Pretty wild race. The announcing was pretty crappy...

Posted by: James---------------------

I hate that the KTM guy wiped out in the first turn because it would have been nice to see him fly around like that again. Unfortunately, it looked like the track was turning to glue.

Todays show was closer to what I expect out of a supercross broadcast....but still lacking in many ways. I even watched the main event again. I am just happy that there are some motorcycles back on the tv.

Posted by: JuliusPleaser---------------------

Today's version was MUCH better than last night's.

I'm with James - at least we have races to watch during the darkest days of winter.

Here's hoping Arnehem will be a better show. :thumb:

Posted by: oldguy---------------------

not at all impressed with the announcers. If it wasn't for Jamie telling them who and wht was happening they didn't seem to have a clue. Maybe they were back home in a studio and she was the only one doing her job :thumb:

I also really liked it when Brown fried his clutch and the announcers figured "he was rotating his kill switch"

Glad I didn't pay to see the race but at least SX is back on TV

Posted by: mxer842---------------------

yeah, speed channel does so much better with daytona last year than the espn2 coverage, it pissed me off that for half the show they didn't even have racing and then we only had 8 laps of a main, this is mx do 20 friggin laps or dont race at all.

Posted by: HiG4s---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by jfisher304
That was UGLY......looked like a really bad indoor GNCC

It wasn't supercross, but I loved it. But like truespode, i've been in races like that.

If only Kreidowsik (sp?) had know what it was going to be like. He could have made a come back to SX in that stuff.

Posted by: Wraith---------------------

I almost thought I was looking at a tape of us riding on the track at Cooperland on Monday and Tuesday :o I liked the race myself. I know it is supposed to be Supercross, but if they are going to race outside of a dome. Let them race in whatever mother nature gives. As far as I know, that is what riding is all about. Remember when you where a kid sitting in the house while it was raining. I know the first thing I did was go out to ride

Even though each lap did lack some of the allure of the high jumping Supercross we have grown to know. It did show at the end that all the riders did have a good time.

Posted by: kelsorat---------------------

Well now I'm really cornfused. I saw the new version of the 250 coverage with the heat races as well. Much better. Does anyone know if ESPN2 plans on televising a quick turnaround version with just the main events and then following up with a more thorough coverage version, like we saw with Seville?

Posted by: biglou---------------------

Next week it's a two hour show on Sunday with "all the heats and mains" according to what they said last night. 4:30-6:30PM EST Sunday Dec 14th. Hopefully it will be the 125's and the 250's. It's obvious that one extra day gives them much more time to get the production sorted out. I can wait one day...

Posted by: TheGrinch---------------------

Didn't see the race, but as far as I'm concerned you race in whatever the conditions are on the day (as long as it's not a major safety hazard to the riders themselves). Good on them for not cancelling the race.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

'specially when the good-guys win , eh grinch

Posted by: mxer842---------------------

if they didn't cancel this race then what would troy have been like if it warrented cancellation?

Posted by: kelsorat---------------------

Unfortunately the TV Viewing stats for SX is much larger than for nationals, so there is much more to lose by cancelling the event. And I'm not sure if the AMA sanctions those Euro Rounds.

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Troy was under water.

When my son and I turned this thing on, I just started bawling with laughter. My first thought was: "How ignorant are these people? This is 1) a Supercross, not an MX race, WORCS or GNCC, 2) That track's been a mud bog for over a week, and no one has attempted to rebuild it (see Bailey's website from last week), and 3) it was supposed to be an indoor-like race, and again--they sat on that mud bog.

This kind of thing is great for MX, but SX? How many times in history has this happened?

BTW--did anyone try to pull out the paddletires?

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Sounds like a job for the 2 wheel drive yamaha 450-have they banned them in mx/sx?? i saw one at the biek show recently, they are selling in limited numbers in 04.Yamaha are very impressive for going down new roads like with the original YZ400,BASS brakes, YPVS etc.Still dont like the YZ but got to give the little japs credit.

Posted by: flynbryan---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by nephron
Troy was under water.
This kind of thing is great for MX, but SX? How many times in history has this happened?

BTW--did anyone try to pull out the paddletires?

Yep it sure has happened already. 95' season, I forget what race it was(I think it was Dallas), but Doug Henry was out there jumping the triple in pouring rain and HAIL!!! :scream: Only one doing it, and he did it ALL TWENTY LAPS!! It was just crazyness. The only other one I saw do it was Tony Amaradio(anyone remember him?) He was on Team KTM at the time. Very cool race to watch, but even that one wasn't as nasty as the Spain race. I thought I too was watching a GNCC from the begining of this year.

Posted by: nikki---------------------

I think paddle tires in AMA pro competition are now outlawed for some reason. But yeah that Henry SX race was cool!

For some people to comment that the Seville race wasn't racing makes me really sad. I respect and admire every racer that was out there and giving it their all and didn't give up or back out because of the crappy conditions. They really echo the true spirit of a racer to me. Anyone can ride on a smooth prepped track, but it takes a lot of courage and heart and hard work to ride on something like Seville. I will bet money that someone like MC wouldn't have even lined up on that gate. Congrats to everyone that tackled Seville

I don't know if they finished all of their laps, but I believe Stiles (9th), Oehloff (10th), Gibson (11th), and Thomas (15th) were all on 4-strokes.

Troy was impossible to run not only because the track was under several feet of water at spots, but so were the pits and pit roads making it impossible to move in the team rigs or anything else required to hold a National. Seville was just a bunch of muck - not standing lakes of water. Hasn't Europe ever heard of covered stadiums? :confused:

Posted by: whitesands26---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by kmccune
Why should they cancel it, a bunch of guys lined up and went as fast as they could. One guy went faster or lasted longer then the rest. Sounds like a race to me. Besides it was on dirt (or mud) and they rode on two wheels.

Kevin

Dude.....What do you think whoops and jumps are for? They couldn't even ride the track the way it was meant to be ridden...

It's always a mud race when a rider that's not considered a serious threat wins.
It's so slick that it wouldn't matter how much skill you had, just the luck of staying uprright.

That guy that won would be lucky to make a main event in a 250 supercross.

Posted by: whitesands26---------------------

That was horrible...It should've been cancelled...

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

You watch a good mud rider and he shows his skills-its just as skillful if not more than normal racing.it always a race even if the leader only does one lap-im hearing too much stuff here about mud-it is motocross not road racing.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

It's IS motocross... it usually isn't SX.

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Daytona was a tough mud race (although not like this) and it was an SX too.

My first ever live SX was Charlotte and it was a mud race. John Dowd won.

Mud happens, even in SX. It is part of the sport you have to deal with unless you put everything indoors but if you do that I think 7 or so events would have to be relocated (Aneheim, LV, etc.).

What I saw Saturday was tough racing. It seperated the workers from the merely talented. I bet if RC would have raced he would have won b/c the whole track was about effort, strength and stamina.

Hats off to those who had the guts to race the SX. You take what the track gives you.

Ivan

Posted by: LocoCD---------------------

Racing - yes it was. So is mud bog, swamp buggies and sand drags.

However, SX is the "Formula 1" version of the sport. This was not up to that standard. Remember the old adage: 90% rider and 10% bike? In this case it was 99% track that determined the outcome - I agree there are thousands of riders that could have won that event and NEVER have a chance at winning - or even qualifying for a normal SX.

I thought it was entertaining and at the same time negative for the sport. It took a showcase event and made it look like backyard mud slinging - so much for highlighting world class skills and technology in font of a national audience!

Posted by: nikki---------------------

Agreed Ivan! And I think you're right on the money with RC as well. SLC was another muddy SX... I remember seeing a Honda completely buried and left in the deep mud. The show must go on and only the strong will survive.

I really doubt the only reason Hurley was the only rider to stay on 2 wheels during the Seville main was because of luck - have you read his interview on RacerX - he's always been a mud rider. And I also doubt that the consistency of Langston and Evans and Voss was a fluke based on luck and not skill considering Langston finished 2nd in both his heat and the main, Tyler won his heat and finished 3rd in the main, and Voss finished 2nd in his heat and 4th in the main. Anyone can ride groomed dirt, but it takes skill, concentration, strength, and determination to conquer the muddy and rutted track.

Posted by: James---------------------

I guess you can't always.....I mean, there will always be.....

Well, I doubt anybody was forced to watch it at gunpoint!! :confused:

I am sure there was plenty of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy", "Real World", or the "Fabulous Life of Britney Spears" on other channels for you.

:thumb:

I'll watch a mudrace SX anyday over some of that other stuff I have to flip through.

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by LocoCD
SX is the "Formula 1" version of the sport. This was not up to that standard.

Do they race Formula 1 in the rain? Not sure really b/c I do not watch it but if they do then wouldn't a wet track make a big difference at the speeds they run? Does that negate the racing?

Quote:

Remember the old adage: 90% rider and 10% bike? In this case it was 99% track that determined the outcome

Personally I saw it as 95% rider and 5% bike. The only reason some of the bigger names didn't win it is b/c there bike gave out. However, the riders whose bike didn't blow still had to push through the mud with stamina and hard work.

This race was not about the track. Sure it was muddy but it showed us that the 2-strokes can survive the harshes elements better than the 4-strokes (nobody has told me yet definitively if a 4-stroke even completed all 8 laps) and it showed us that only the strong can survive.

I don't stop watching a football game b/c of a blizzard even though the weather has an impact on the outcome. Take a windy, no visibility game and a team that throws a lot will probably lose a game they normally would be favored to win.

Ivan

Posted by: TheJunkMan---------------------

Especially that OH-OXYGEN channel I guess they spell diferently cause I spell OH-Oxygen- C R A P

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

F1 go in the rain-even when i wouldnt like to drive my road car at 50 mph, indy cars dont go in the rain i think , hmm a pattern is emerging LOL.

Posted by: James---------------------

EASY Marcus.....

Posted by: LocoCD---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by nikki
Anyone can ride groomed dirt, but it takes skill, concentration, strength, and determination to conquer the muddy and rutted track.

Perhaps on an MX course, I've been around a lot of SX races over the years and I flagged the SF race last year - up close and personal. Anyone can ride the track but there are only a handful of riders in the world that can race the track at SX speeds without killing themslves. Perhaps there is confusion around MX vs SX, they really are different animals.

I'd bet money that Mike Lafferty, Hawkins, Ty Davis or even Burleson would have won the Mudder of all Races in Seville but they wouldn't likely consider a regular SX event.

F-1 cars do race in the rain. They simply change tires and then maintain a high percentage of their speed.

My point is one of support for SX racing and that this was not SX racing, simply a globberfest on an SX track.

By the way, they cancel baseball games due to weather - because it fundamentaly alters the game (like SX). Football is incrementally impacted but not fundamentaly altered (like MX).

Posted by: mxer842---------------------

you guys anger me. do we race motocross because it is easy?no, we race for the challenge, if every track had perfect powder berms and three feet of loam how interesting would this sport be? i dont race because it is easy, i race for the challenge, and that means rain, mud, or blazing heat ill be out there. because this is motocross, it is a challenge!!

and how many of you guys have actually ridden a mud race?if you have you will know that the balance required to keep a bike upright is amazing, even for the speeds they rode at, that was an interesting race. secondly, i've ridden a few mud races and know that after i pull off the track i am mentally exhausted from the concentration needed to keep that bike upright and the physical exertion one puts into racing in the mud. the best man won, daryl rode the smartest race by not riding faster than the conditions allowed and preserving his bike, he was the rightful winner!!

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

LOL the thing is i know some US riders dont ride the deep mud, steve (who i bet is reading this now) will back me up, none of his friends would go out in the deep mud-they waited 2 hours for it to dry, i was out there getting a good workout by the time they did a lap.Another interesting point, steve and his friends dont own a jet wash, we have to own one-in fact many of my friends own more than 1.

Its all about keeping the bikes looking pretty

Now that must stir some of you good old, US loving, mud sissies into a reply

fish fish fish

Posted by: nikki---------------------

Quote:

Anyone can ride groomed dirt, but it takes skill, concentration, strength, and determination to conquer the muddy and rutted track.

Let me rephrase myself then... "anyone can finish 8 laps on a groomed SX track, however very few riders can finish 8 laps on SX track when you throw in the challenge of mud and ruts like Seville."

Even the detuned KTM 50's can turn laps around a groomed SX track just 20-30 seconds a lap slower than the pros. Heck some of the 50's even jump some of the bigger doubles. I've raced the Pontiac SX track on amateur day - it doesn't take much skill, concentration, strength, or determination to complete 8 laps at a halfway decent pace. All I'm saying is I have HUGE respect for the guys like Hurley, Langston, Evans, and Voss who were out there putting in two consistent races (heat and main) and top finishes in that crap. It wasn't luck, there was a little skill behind their consistency as well. Regardless, they came to race and nothing was going to stop them. They aren't quitters. That's the attitude some of us obviously need to adapt instead of "put the bike in the trailer I think it might rain today" :confused:

Posted by: steve125---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by marcusgunby
LOL the thing is i know some US riders dont ride the deep mud, steve (who i bet is reading this now) will back me up, none of his friends would go out in the deep mud-they waited 2 hours for it to dry

Yep! Marcus had no problem with the mud, but he did have the most fun when the track dried out and he could let er rip!!!

 I really respect those riders at Seville and it was fun to watch. Ive raced alot of mud races and have never found it "Fun", but I did find it a challenge thats for sure.

I think riders who like mud, like it cuz it gives them an excuse not to have to jump, right Marcus?

Posted by: DPW---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Truespode
I just re-watched the heat races (today's show has the heats) and Heath was on a 2-stroke.

Ivan

Weird I thought Voss was going be to riding a 450 indoors...my mistake

Posted by: 2smoke---------------------

Yep if you dont get off the ground its not dirt bike racing. For real??? Marcus you keep telling them.... F1 race in very crap conditions and they dont hang a yellow flag out everytime a seagull pee's on the track ala Indycar. Riding in the deep mud is sh#t to do but there is most definitely a skill to it. I would have liked to see Stefan Everts at that one. He floats through deep mud feet up all the way. Oh and congrats to Hurley Ive seen him race lots in Oz for Team Suzuki......(he's a Kiwi Boy not an Aussie)....... he done good. Cause he won.

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by mxer842
how many of you guys have actually ridden a mud race?

Just my guess but I'd venture to say that those that have ridden more than one mud race realize how great of a race the SX was. Those that have ridden only one and packed up or ridden none at all are those that are hatin

My favorite race this year was a mud race. It makes me mad that earlier in the season I passed on a couple of races just b/c of rain.

Ivan

Posted by: kiwi_925---------------------

2smoke, your not trying to claim Hurl's aint an aussie....thats gota be the first time thats happened!! I mean look at Merriman, and im sure there's other riders out there that you're claiming to be aussie

Yes i loved watching that mud race, though i watched the one with the heats first up and then it re-aired last night and was the one with only the main in, i can see why everyone seemed so pissed at it. Steele should be the main talking guy and Coombs as the other guy saying wahts happening with that rider, and Baliey there in the mix as well.
But Hurl's was the better rider on the day, and he rode best int he conditions that were infront of him. One thing people can not control, mother nature, the great equalizer(sp). Its about your mind set, if you hate the mud you would have probably hated watching that race, i love riding in the mud over riding in the dry, maybe its something to do living in new zealand where it seems to be raining more times than not, or if its a dry day the usually find some sort of bog to put us through.
1st new zealander to win a SX, and it wasnt one of the King brothers! Kudos Hurl's. Another poduim this weekned will help his cause and stop the only cos it was wet people.

Posted by: 2smoke---------------------

Kiwi 925 Yeah I know Ive given you sh@t about that before!!! But that was tongue in cheek and you know it!!! No I actually get pissed off with the amount of expat Kiwis the papers claim over here as Aussies....I like to set the record straight cause Ive seen him referred to as an Aussie before. Plus I got the impression some people think he's a talentless schmuck who was all luck. He won cause he was first accross the line....enuff said.

Posted by: whitesands26---------------------

It's a freaking SX race...Not a truck and tractor pull....

I can't believe how many people think that was great racing....It was absurd...Grant langston didn't know what position he was in..I'm pretty sure most of the guys didn't know what position they were in....

It's actually like having an AMA superbike race or and f1 race on ICE....How in the Heck do you think Nicky Haden would be able to use his superior skills on the ice ? He wouldn't ! That's why you would have some no name winning because he lucked out by staying upright or crashing less then everyone else.

It's mostly luck of the draw in races like we saw last weekend.

For all you Yahoooos that "love ta go racin in dat der mud over yonder" then go right ahead and proceed to blow up your bikes and do all other sorts of damage to your bike for one stupid mudslingfest so you can "get dem valuable points in that there beginner seeeeries at the local track over yonder".....

Ignorance must be bliss..lol

Posted by: Chili---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by whitesands26
Ignorance must be bliss

I'm not sure if it is or not, but I'm certain you'll be able to confirm.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Well if the world packed there bikes away every time a track was muddy it hit the sales real hard

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Let's just go for it, as far as these 'natural' conditions for 'sx' are concerned. I say open up in Alaska @ several locations, and our boys can jump off snow banks and pull off huge ice triples on spikes. Yeah baby, that's SX. au naturale' eh? In that way, we could make sure the ice riders don't have a hand down to the mud guys, and by the time we hit some closed stadiums RC, CR and KW will be in last place. Now that's a true demonstration of SX, its meaning, its original intent...not the least of which was to create something different and spectacular that could be recognized as separate from MX (which FOLLOWS SX, and for a reason).

Now maybe I'm wrong (and I would defer to Nikki to some degree since she actually races), but SX is about tight track skills, deep whoops, big jumps and cornering speed...not sloshing up one side of a jump for 5 seconds, and down the other for 2.5 seconds. Mud on an SX track ( to the degree that we all saw) prohibits any meaningful riding, while in MX it's just great (for obvious reasons).

LocoCD--good rationale.

Posted by: Rcannon---------------------

I was at that Salt Lake race. Kyle Lewis's bike did get stuck in the mud, but only after crashing over the berm. The track was in fairly decent shape despite all the rain.

 

The dozer would go out and scrape off the top two or so inches of mud and put it into a pile. Poor Kyle happened to land right square in the center of it! He was pushing and pulling, trying to get the bike out. He was laughing like crazy! He showed a good deal of sportsmanship in a bad situation. He ended up leaving the bike right where it landed, mud clear up to the swingarm!

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Quote:

posted by whitesands26
It's mostly luck of the draw in races like we saw last weekend.

If you've ever raced in mud you would realize just how ignorant that statement is.

Quote:

posted by Nephron
Now maybe I'm wrong (and I would defer to Nikki to some degree since she actually races), but SX is about tight track skills, deep whoops, big jumps and cornering speed...not sloshing up one side of a jump for 5 seconds, and down the other for 2.5 seconds.

The series I run is called an SX series. They run heat races and mains. They have a lot of jumps (mostly table tops though) and it is a tight course with a long whoop section. I have raced more than one mud race there and have passed on a few too.

SX does have to face the challenges of the environment. It is part of it.

I understand that only the spectators think it should be high flying triples all the time but those that actually race in the stuff realize just how tough it is to race in the mud.

Honestly, I have a much better shot at clearing an SX triple than I do completing one lap on a track like Seville was.

I would not want the racing to be like this all the time b/c I do like watching the air and the whoops but I do enjoy it happening every once in awhile. For me it was even more entertaining b/c you had absolutely no clue what was going to happen, who would take the wrong rut, who would reach for a tear off at the wrong time, etc.

Ivan

Posted by: James---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by whitesands26
For all you Yahoooos that "love ta go racin in dat der mud over yonder" then go right ahead and proceed to blow up your bikes and do all other sorts of damage to your bike for one stupid mudslingfest so you can "get dem valuable points in that there beginner seeeeries at the local track over yonder".....

Ignorance must be bliss..lol

POSER :confused:

Posted by: LocoCD---------------------

Since we seem to be stuck on the differences between SX and MX - they are prety clear to me... and local MX tracks are generally NOT SX tracks, they just use the name to get riders there. Lets take a different tack...

Was this a "Championship Caliber Event"? AMA does "decertify" events if they are not championship quality. At every level. Did that track and race represent a championship caliber event in anyone's eye's? Should it be the determining race (and it could be) in a champioship race?

Entertaining? Yes
Difficult? Yes
On par with a championship SX event? No Way, sorry fellow mudders (and I race/ride in the mud all the time) your wrong on this one.

Posted by: nikki---------------------

Here is a post from Motonews by Paul Lindsey - Motoworld Racing Team Manager:

---------------------

Thanks to everyone for the props on Daryl's win

He deserves it! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy! I'm still on cloud nine! Side bar / major bummer of the weekend and little know fact: Andrew, from dead last passes Langston for 2nd with a half a lap to go......then falls :-(.....still dwelling on "what could have been" on that one. By the way, Boniface was ALSO in 3rd at one point, with about 3 laps to go (which was actually an eternity out there so that one didn't hurt as bad, but hey a 5th is good too!) I'm SUPER proud of our whole team and the extra effort that our mechanics put in to help Daryl win. From my point of view it looked like a blast!!! I was wanting to be out there, I love the mud!! :-) Oh well, thanks also to Clear Channel for inviting us over. I still can't understand how people whine about some things like the TV coverage, the open stadium, etc. All that I can say is educate yourself before you spout off, Clear Channel is the reason our sport is where it is today. There are many reasons that stadium was a very good choice, not the least of which was the fact that it only rains about 4 days a year in Seville. They may not always get it right, but they give 110% and they DO care about the riders and the sport, not just the money. I can guarantee you nobody could do it better than they are doing. Just my 2 cents as a fan of the sport mostly.

Paul

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by James, referring to Whitesands26
POSER :confused:

I could not have said it better myself. Now, Whitesands, why don't you go put on your Fox Racing hat (tweaked a little sideways, for just that right touch of style), your Ricky Carmichael T-shirt, and go polish on your bike some more, since it's probably too dirty outside to ride it.

It's a freakin' DIRT bike race, man! They ride on DIRT, which when wet, becomes this stuff called MUD!! Cripes, maybe they should cancell all races when it rains enough that it might dirty some poor sap's gear a smidge. :silly:

Cripes, if I waited until optimum conditions before I rode, I'd never be able to ride!

Posted by: Rooster---------------------

Amen Pred.

A thought: Rain and mud doesn't stop Dirt Bike Races, but NANCYCAR will scramble for cover at the slightest hint of rain.

Maybe someone should get into another form of racing instead of dirtbikes?

Posted by: LocoCD---------------------

Is arenacross a dirt bike race? No chance of mud there.

How about supermotard - would they cancel one of these because of weather/track conditions?

Dirt Track - mile, never seen one on a real wet track.

Did you know they cancel hare scrambles and enduros when conditions get too bad?

I wonder why?

Posted by: kmccune---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by oldguy

I also really liked it when Brown fried his clutch and the announcers figured "he was rotating his kill switch" 

 

Did you catch the follow-up to the rotating his kill switch..... that's and old cross country trick :scream:  They really do need David back!

 

Kevin

Posted by: Rooster---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by LocoCD

Did you know they cancel hare scrambles and enduros when conditions get too bad?

I wonder why?

I guess I have never heard of such a thing. Hey, learn something new every day

LocoCD - that post was all tongue in cheek humor. :silly:

Posted by: James---------------------

Quote:

Entertaining? Yes
Difficult? Yes
On par with a championship SX event? No

I can basically agree with this.

I don't understand why all the fuss over technicalities though?? I admit that Truespode lost me on his comments about our local races being called Supercross too...but that is just him

But why fuss about how this was or wasn't exactly a supercross race?? The place had a hole in the roof......

Quote:

Is arenacross a dirt bike race? No chance of mud there.

There is if they have a hole in the roof too.

Quote:

How about supermotard - would they cancel one of these because of weather/track conditions?

If it was a safety issue...probably

Quote:

Dirt Track - mile, never seen one on a real wet track.

Maybe this is the one you should be comparing to Nascar...I dunno, do they regularly bring knobby tires just in case? Aren't these dirt ovals usually set up to drain water rather quickly?

Quote:

Did you know they cancel hare scrambles and enduros when conditions get too bad?

Probably because they don't want to excessively damage the course. They had to bulldoze that track in Seville anyway.

I surrender.

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by James
I admit that Truespode lost me on his comments about our local races being called Supercross too.

I was pointing out that I race as well and that Nikki wasn't the only one here that does (although she may be the fastest).

Also, SX is just a term and anyone can use it. That was the other point.

It's like pred said, it is a dirt bike race and dirt can get wet.

I have seen HS and Enduro's ran in worse conditions at the top level so if they cancel them it must be really bad... sorta like the MX finally.

Ivan

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Ok, I had a good talk with James and understand where the miscommunication is coming from. Maybe I can do better this time :-)

I am in no way equating the SX series I run to what the pro's run. I am just saying that the SX we see now is only that way b/c of how SX has evolved. Those saying SX is supposed to be high flying and whoops and such are mistaken I believe. SX is a marketing term.

SX was designed to take MX into a smaller stadium so more fans could see the races easier. The turns, closeness of jumps and the way the obstacles were put together were done so to utilize the most space in the small area.

SX did not start out with tons of rythm sections and long whoop sections. AAMOF I remember the 1986 Anaheim race having a rather short whoop section.

SX has evolved into what we expect to see which is triples, rythm sections and unbelievable whoop sections. This evolution came about as the promoters wanted different things and the bikes became better and the riders were willing to push both the bike and the track to the limit.

Mud races are not uncommon in SX. They are not the norm however.

To say that b/c of mud it was not an SX is not giving the sport respect for its history or the riders respect for their effort. Mud races are extremely difficult and it takes a lot of talent and training to prevail.

We expect lots of jumps and high flying action in SX. Every once in awhile a race doesn't meet our expectations. The personal taste of the particular fan will mold their appreciation or dissatisfaction of the race but it still is a SX.

Ivan

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Hmm not enough biting here, i will have to play elsewhere , like the politics forum -you can always get a good catch there LOL.I think i need to re register under a different name, as you all know me too well and wont play my games

Posted by: James---------------------

I would bite (you probably knew that :confused: ) but I haven't really taken exception with anything you have said so far.

Well, there is one thing:

U.S. RIDERS DO IT BETTER!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: kiwi_925---------------------

How about supermotard - would they cancel one of these because of weather/track conditions?

No supermoto guys still race in the rain, well the world guys do at least, it happened at the 2nd to last round, it was as bad as the spainish rain.

2smoke i know what you mean, just a bit of tounge and check, its all good, but Hurl's has been in aussie for what seemed like sooo long.
They all raced and it was the same for everyone, it just happened to be someone without the high profile that RC or Reed or Bubba has, and because those guys are hurt it means that he doesnt deserve it?? Bullocks!!

Posted by: LocoCD---------------------

The final test... if you would have flown to Spain, bought your ticket, paid for your hotel and gone to the event would you have been satisfied that it was a great race? Or would you have asked for your money back?

Hey all you old guys, didn't trials use to be about horrific conditions and impassable trails? How did it become rock crawling/hopping?

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by LocoCD
The final test... if you would have flown to Spain, bought your ticket, paid for your hotel and gone to the event would you have been satisfied that it was a great race? Or would you have asked for your money back?

I would have been satisfied. I also have one hell of a bench racing story to tell about how all the factory riders dropped out so they asked me to race for Honda America and I won!!!

Ivan

Posted by: LocoCD---------------------

The benchracing would have to include stories about the impact you had on Spain's dating scene since US riders pull all the hottest chicks!!! The many Penelope Cruz look-alikes that melted in your presense like an SX track in the rain!!! Marcus get me another COLD Bud Light while I entertain these European babes...

Loco

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by LocoCD
The benchracing would have to include stories about the impact you had on Spain's dating scene since US riders pull all the hottest chicks!!!

That is one stereotype I can squash rather quickly!

Ivan

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

How about a warm stout LOL-what is stout BTW??? sounds and looks horrid, drank by old crusty people who look a bit scary.

Posted by: 2smoke---------------------

True Marcus!!!.....for scary crusty people...Im going out to buy some Stout....

Hey LocoCD I think your getting confused...the ISDE used to be the ISDT. T for trial because it was a trial of endurance and ability...yes impassable trails and water crossings kind of like a cross country safari. Trials ridng has always bee about stupid rock faces and inpossible rock ledges. Ahhh to be old and crusty........and actually be able to watch a mud race and enjoy it.

Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

2-Smoke,

I believe Loco was thinking of something along the lines of the Scottish Six Days Trial, one of the all time great motorcycle events.  It was started in 1909 as a 'reliability' trial, and it is still run annually.  The Scottish was considered the premier trials event by the 1920's, and they did not even start taking points for putting your foot down until the 1930's.  

Trials has certainly evolved over the decades.  Check out the history section at the SSDT home page,     www.ssdt.org

 

Posted by: 2smoke---------------------

I thought thats what I was referring to. Guys in flatcaps and goggles in an endurance or reliability trial. But I thought that evolved into Enduro racing as Scrambles evolved into motocross which then bore the ******* child that is Supercross (god bless it) which apparently cant be run in anything other than indoor climate controlled conditions. Hey thanks for the link I shall look....and learn.....after all I do like my motorbike history.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Seems to me the big issue here is fan acceptance / winning new fans... not the attitude coming from people who actually ride.

To say that the average fan that tuned into Seville enjoyed a mud race vs. a "regular" SX race, is kinda silly. If we are looking for more TV coverage, that wasn't a good ambassador for the cause.

From a rider/racer's standpoint, racin' is racin'. From Joe Blow sitting on his couch, it was big time boring.

Posted by: TheJunkMan---------------------

and I can't believe this post hasn't been closed yet... because it is BIG time boring

Posted by: kmccune---------------------

Yup!
( to Okie, another post got in the way :whiner: &nbsp

 

Kevin

Posted by: whitesands26---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by XRpredator

I could not have said it better myself. Now, Whitesands, why don't you go put on your Fox Racing hat (tweaked a little sideways, for just that right touch of style), your Ricky Carmichael T-shirt, and go polish on your bike some more, since it's probably too dirty outside to ride it.

It's a freakin' DIRT bike race, man! They ride on DIRT, which when wet, becomes this stuff called MUD!! Cripes, maybe they should cancell all races when it rains enough that it might dirty some poor sap's gear a smidge. :silly:

Cripes, if I waited until optimum conditions before I rode, I'd never be able to ride!

"Errr......That there mud won't hert yer bike....it's made fer it..Can't miss that there race or I'll be a losin som of dem valuable points in the That there Turkey bowl seeeries"..lol

Posted by: whitesands26---------------------

I can't freaking stand mud racing...The triples were built to be jumped....You call that racing ?
I call it Trying your best not to fall....

I'm glad the guy won but really...I highly doubt the guy will make the podium in another supercross race this year.

Posted by: whitesands26---------------------

Predator...why don't you go to the cross country/enduro forum if you like mud racing so much...

Now...Go comb your mullet, put your cowboy hat on, pull up your double striped socks, cutoff shorts and cowboy boots and "get ta ridin partner".....lol

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by TheJunkMan
and I can't believe this post hasn't been closed yet... because it is BIG time boring

And sometimes I wonder why YOU haven't been closed yet.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

that was all I needed "whitesands"... strike 3. Bye.

Posted by: mxer842---------------------

paul lindsey is a world class motocrosser and all around nice guy, he grew up riding with my best friends dad as the two up and coming stars in the SRAC he has risen to the top of the sport the hard way. he and the motoworld guys are easily approachable and always willing to lend a hand to me when i need help. paul has even offered me a bike to race next year, he is an amazing person and would not hesitate to help a fellow racer in need. it pains me to see some of you to disregard the performance of daryl in seville. daryl is an amazing racer and dedicated to his sport. everyone raced the same track and daryl rode the smartest race and in racing that can be more important than sheer speed.

Posted by: 2smoke---------------------

Funny about perceptions, TFs at motnews.com reported the fact that is was a mud race got some good coverage of it on the AOL web news page with a muddy first turn photo.....it may not have been spectacular but it did get noticed.

Pred you can ride with us anytime, hairstyle dont matter, mismatched riding gear welcome, type of bike.....totally irrelevant....just as long as you dont park the pickup in the middle of a dry field and ride around your toolbox all day. Toolbox riders........enuff said.

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Quote:

but NANCYCAR will scramble for cover at the slightest hint of rain.

Now you're talkin' baby! However, Loco was talking about meeting the basic requirements for a quality race (in the SX category), while you're now just talking about freakin' putting the spectators in danger.

Imagine 20 some odd toothless good ol' boys circling a wet track in suppository-shaped monte's and such with the wrong frame and steering geometry. ...massive crowd plowing @ the first turn, and a major Budweiser can pileup.

(nothing against you good southern girls and boys, or even Nascar fans--I'm just still pissed about losing my Speedchannel).

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