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Returning rider needs advice (long)
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Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Hello,

I found this site today while doing some research. I was trying to locate information to help me determine how/what to select as a return to off-road riding.

I am 30, 5'8", 200 lbs. I rode a Honda XR80 from age 12 - 14, and a Honda CR125 from 14 - 16. With exception of my son (age 6), I have no memories in life that I revere more than those of my days of riding my dirtbikes.

I recently purchased a '97 Suzuki Savage 650 street bike. I'm really enjoying it alot, and now I want to start planning my return to dirtbikes. In particular I plan to get a bike for my son also (probably first), so that we can go on weekend camping trips together.

In reflection of my childhood, I feel that the XR80 provided me with a relatively lightweight, easy platform to learn the physical mechanics of riding a motorcycle. The 4 stroke motor was easy to manage and kept me out of any severe power troubles. Once I made friends to ride with, I quickly surpassed the abilities of the bike, and punished it and myself on a daily basis. This went on for along time because my parents could not get me a bigger bike. At age 15, I got a job and start saving my money. When I got to the point that my MX boots and the XR's suspension were not sparing my legs from the impact of my jumps, I bought a used CR125.

The CR125 was much more appropriate for me based on it's suspension and my weight, but it was extremely tall for me. I had a hard time starting it when it was cold because I could only flat foot it on one side. To get it going daily I'd have to put one foot on a curb or rock, and kick it off. Once warm it would start on one good jump that I just had to be sure I landed my left foot solidly on the ground. The 2 stroke motor was alot more fun to ride on, but took more practice to manage. Some times it was annoying that it didn't like the lower rpms needed for trails or quietly getting through the neighborhood. It also made some of the jumps a bit more of a white knuckle affair, but was manageable with practice. This bike provided many hours of fun until it was time for me to buy a car. With my father out of work, my bike was eventually sold for extra car money. I didn't ride again until this year when I took a MSF course for a street bike.

My son is 6, so I figure I'll be getting him one of the small auto-clutch bikes to start with. The selection for him does not seem as complicated to me. He's going to be riding 4 stroke beginner bikes for a while.

For myself, I'm going to need something that can handle trails, mudding, jumping, my occasional lapse of throttle restraint, etc... I want something versatile, but not necessarily docile. I need to be able to get comfortable with it's seat height since I'm not real tall. My limited experience has me leaning to the power of a 2 stroke, but it seems like 4 stroke motors have come along way in the last 15 years. I have no idea how to determine what I should get, but I'm not going to put my hide in the hands of a dealer when the time comes. They too often oversell for the good of comissions.

Mechanically, I'm not very qualified. I can handle technical things (I do IT for a living) when I apply myself, and therefore I plan to learn to do the basics and more for maintenance. I'll leave the complicated things to a shop though.

I'm also going to need to start locating places that my son and I could possibly ride/camp for a weekend when the time comes. I plan to make these purchases over the next year or so.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Web links to information works for me as well. Any input/experiences similiar to mine?

thanks in advance for your assistance,

Jason

Posted by: TwoStroker---------------------

If you want a 2 stroke w/ some low end power look at the KDX or EXC. Both are versitile and have smooth reliable power. As for 4 strokes a 250F MXer is pretty versitile. The WR250F is like a MXer but adhusted for the trails. You might want some more power and thats why I recommend a KDX or EXC. The GasGas Pamperas are even tamer than the KDX or EXC but hard to come by.

As for your son pick the cheapest or coolest looking 50. You might put him on a XR70 or PW80 if you wait to long though.

Posted by: kawdude---------------------

XR 70 if the boy is tall enough. It's a great bike.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Who makes the EXC?

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Nevermind, I figured out it was KTM.

I'm mainly concerned with what to get for myself since the options for my son are much less complicated. I think his size is right for the 50 but we'll find out in person soon.

Jason

Posted by: coleman---------------------

If you're concerned about starting I would suggest the wr250f or a ktm 400/450 exc. Both of these bikes have electic starters. The ktm 400 or 450 (I'd suggest a 400 because it would be more managable) would be good to right out of the box. The wr250f needs a pipe, yzf cam and a few free mods to run well. Both bikes would be really good for trails and should handle jumping alright. I ride a yz250f, which is the mx version of the wr250f, in the woods mostly and its fine too. If you dont think you need the electric start then you should look at a yz250f, crf250f or a kx250f. Thats my opinion anyway.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Coleman,

Thanks for your input!

I'm not really interested in electric start, I enjoyed kicking it over actually. I am just concerned about the seat height on the bikes. I'm assuming that these bikes can be shortened a little in the suspension to accomodate for height to some degree?

Thanks again,

Jason

Posted by: Instaurare---------------------

I lowered the height of my KDX substantially by adding Koubalinks, and by substituting low density foam (and less of it) in the seat, in place of the high density stock foam. Lowered it a lot.

Posted by: TwoStroker---------------------

I'm 5'7" and just dropping the forks and adjusting the shock worked for me(on my KDX). I don't think you'll have to worry about it much.

Coleman suggested the 400/450EXC 4 stroke which has comparable power to the 200/250EXC 2 stroke. But they are heavier and harder to control in tight situations. Thats why you might look at a 250F. As a beginner you might like it but you might want more power in the future. OTOH, if you plan to ever race a 250F is a versitile bike.

Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Grissom29:

The EXC version of the KTM bikes are great woods weapons. The SX versions are meant more for the tracks. The MXC versions are for desert / open terrain

Regarding bikes ... I am 5'10 / 165# and I bought a '02 400MXC when I jumped back in. I love the bike and still have it, but I found it to be a handful to deal with in the woods. I am getting faster on it, but still am more comfortable on my '01 KTM 200MXC that I bought this spring. I can flick it around in the woods much easier, a fact that may relate more to the fact that I grew up on a Penton and understand two stroke power better.

Both bikes are tall, but you can lower the seat by modifying the rear subframe ($75.00) and take a knife to the seat foam (free). I have lower the 400 but not the 200 to date.

What part of Texas are you in? There are a bunch of us here. Maybe you could hook up with us and try out a bunch of different bikes.

BTW - My son weighs #225 and can ride either of my bikes comfortably. They don't lack for power.

As Colman said, I would also recommend the 400 (which was brought back this year after being dropped with the introduction of the 450) as it is a short stroke engine that revs like an electric motor.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Eeds
What part of Texas are you in?

I live in Dallas near Carrollton.

That brings me to another question. What's the best way to locate riding locations? I've found a few places listed on the net that provide camping as well.

Thanks again,

Jason

Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Grissom29
I live in Dallas near Carrollton.
That brings me to another question. What's the best way to locate riding locations? ...

Jason: Check out the [color=orange]North Texas Smack Pack[/color] forum. We get together every week or so, and now is prime riding weather.

Regarding camping ....
[color=orange]Muenster[/color] has places to camp, but no hookups (that I know of),
[color=orange]Lake Murray[/color] has camping and hookups. The trails there are more forgiving although tighter,
are two locations that I have been.

I have heard that [color=orange]Barnwell Mountain Recreational Area[/color] is real nice and has all hookups available. It is reputed to be really rocky.

Tony

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Tony,

Sounds good, thanks for the info. The weather has been great lately hasn't it? I've been enjoying my new Savage wherever possible.

It's going to take me a little time to get the money together for another bike. I just bought the Savage, but I spent less than I expected, so I have some left over. That coupled with IRS and a few months savings should do the trick before summer if I find a good deal (I hope). But only time will tell for sure.

Jason

Posted by: blanc---------------------

My dad just did the same as you same size and weight just hes 45, he got a gasgas ec250, and its is absolutely great. Might even sell my Honda CR250, to get 1. Happy New Year.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

If I factor what I'm reading here based on other peoples similiar needs, and my own preference to 2 stroke bikes... it seems that I should lean to the Kawa KDX or the KTM EXC. When you factor in budgetary constraints against the fact that I just want to play and not race, the KDX seems to be the better buy for me. (Bare in mind I could easily just buy any used 125cc MX'er based on availability and budget also.)

What about the hp/displacement of the KDX200? I rode a 84 CR125 and it was as much as I could handle. A quick ride on a neighbors LCS CR250 scared the crap out of me. How should I feel about it's additional displacement? I understand that displacement does not always equal HP/torque, but does anyone have figures on the KDX200? I've not found any in google thus far.

Thanks again,

Jason

Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Out of the box, the KDX will be a good bike and if you are willing to dump some $$ into them they can become awsome bikes. The KTM will set you back more $$ on the front end, but will need little (if anything) done to them to make keep them better than your experience level. I picked up an '01 as a sweet killer deal, so I am a bit perjudiced. If you cut me, I will bleed orange.

Stan Flemming rode a KDX 220 for many years, literally growing up on the bike. StacyKDX220 now has the bike, the circle remains unbroken. Stand is now on a KTM 250. I'll get him to check in here.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Tony,

Perhaps availability with decide which of the two ends up in my garage this year?

What about the power question though? My 125 was at my limits of ability, and it's been 15 years since I've ridden that way. Though I do ride a Savage 650 about 2 days a week now, that's a different kind of ride. The Savage only has about 25(ish) hp and is therefore extremely managable.

Should I be concerned about the difference between a modern 200cc 2 stroke vs. my early 80's 125cc 2 stroke?

I'm starting to get excited, I hope we get our W2's soon...

Jason

Posted by: Michelle---------------------

http://www.dirtrider.net/justkdx/dynotesting.html
Not sure what KTM that involves, but you could ask (I'd presume an EXC, but have been wrong many times before now). There are also threads in the KDX forum comparing the two bikes.
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/sh...0&highlight=ktm (compares 125SX v KDX)
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/sh...6&highlight=ktm (compares 200 v KDX)
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/sh...9&highlight=ktm (FredT's KTM ride report - mind you, it's a 250EXC)
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/sh...1&highlight=ktm (200exc v kdx)

I'm sure there are more threads around, both in the KDX forum & the Euro bike forum.

Now a comparison between an early 80's 125 & modern 200? Hmm, can't say I remember seeing one of them (comparisons).

What this thread feels like is someone who wants us to say "buy this, it's ideal for you", but we can only point you in directions & make suggestions. You have to try out some bikes & decide. One thing about KDX's though, is stock they're a different bike from modified. An aftermarket pipe makes a huge difference & some people do prefer them stock. You can also get rev & torque pipes for the KDX, which do differ & is a personal preference thing.

Hope that helps some & good luck.
Michelle

Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Michelle ... Great finds!

Regarding power, the power of my 125 Penton was strong and smooth and the 200MXC is similar but (of course) larger. The Penton had a very smooth power band with very little apparent hit, the power band of the 200 has a definite sweet spot, but the throttle is not a light switch, like so many modern 125 MX weapons. I had a YZ125 for a year and although I could raise the front end any time I wanted, I could also scare myself silly with it in the woods, never mind that is ate spark plugs like I eat chips. It was not made for the woods.

The biggest difference between ‘70 era bikes and those of the ‘90's and on is the dramatic increase in suspension travel, almost to the point that the bikes are difficult to handle because of their seat height.

I am considering adding a fly wheel weight to my 200 as one last mod towards improving the low end grunt, not that it really needs it. I can ride the bike up virtually any hill and not worry a bit about making it. The low speed tractability is beyond compare in my book. Couple that with the 125 frame specs and you have an all around great bike without the weight of a larger machine.

Posted by: soboy---------------------

I am also 5'8 and 200, and returned to dirt bikes this year after many years of not riding. I started on a Yamaha 60 in 1973, outgrew that and rode a Yamaha DT100 for a while, then got into street bikes. The biggest problem you are going to have is seat height. I test sat all the new bikes, and the only 2 that fit were the Honda crf230F and the Yamaha ttr225. I rode the Honda on the dirt, it was great - plenty of power and suspension for my tastes. I bought an old Yamaha DT250 - 1978 monoshock model, in excellent shape, because I love the bikes from the 70's, and I wanted a dual sport. Good luck, and try the 2 I mentioned if you are looking to get a modern dirtbike.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Michelle
[BWhat this thread feels like is someone who wants us to say "buy this, it's ideal for you", but we can only point you in directions & make suggestions. [/B]

I'm very sorry you feel that way. I never wanted to be told a particular bike, I wanted to know the type of information to help me figure it out myself. It seems that people are used to saying... "Get XYZ if you like..." or "ABC if you like..."

In your defense, I did reread my post and I failed to ask one of the questions that I had in my head when IK first started typing... "How do I know if I want a 2 stroke or 4 stroke?" I hated my weakling 4 stroke motor when I was a teen, but it seems like they have changed alot since then.

I don't have the knowledge to figure this out on my own, so I thought I should ask around to people that ride. I'd love to ride some bikes and find out what I want but I don't have any friends who ride. I'm trying to start a hobby for my family, so I'll be the one doing the discovery. I'm also not one to ask to ride other peoples bikes, because I feel that motorcycles are very personal things.

Also, I have read many other threads before posting here. I believe one should try and help themself first, then seek assistance second. I've even read some of the ones that you linked to.

Thanks for trying to help.

Jason

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Jason,

Where do you live in Texas? You can post in the Places to Ride Forum about meeting up with some of the Texas DRN'ers and possibly get a test ride on a few bikes.

Ivan

Posted by: Stan_Flemmings---------------------

I had a 97 kdx200, like Tony said, but have since moved on to my 01 250 MXC.

IMO the ideal bike for you would be a KTM 200 EXC. Its light, user friendly, but has plenty of get-up-and-go as well. I ride with a guy that has one, very fun bike to play on.

The same can be said about the KDX 200/220 line. After riding a KDX 200, a KTM 200 EXC, and a 200 MXC, I'd say the KDX has the least power and is heavier. The 200 E has very linear power, and the 200 M has a good hit to it. I believe the only difference between the 200 E and 200 M is the powervalve setting, so either could be made like the other with a simple turn of a screwdriver.

It is all personal preference, but if I was in your shoes, I'd go with the KTM 200 EXC--hands down.

Posted by: Michelle---------------------

Jason, I'm not putting you down. I've been reading this thread with interest since you started it & watching how you're being torn between this bike & that bike (and am curious what you end up with).

As for not riding other peoples' bikes because they're personal things, well, the unwritten rule is "you break it, you fix it". Dirtriders are different from road riders, we do try out other peoples' bikes, when they're offered, how long a ride is depends on circumstances. I don't like taking other bikes for rides, so only take them on short ones, but I do like to try out other bikes.

As for Ivan's idea of posting in the places to ride forum, what have you got to lose? You're not a total beginner, so it's not like you'll get target fixation for the nearest cactus (or whatever the heck you guys have down there).

As for whether you want 2 or 4, dunno, it depends on whether you want a two-stroke hit or not

There have been threads about that, which I'm sure you've read. If you were over here, you'd be more than welcome to try out my KDX (if you could snare it from my husband).

Good luck with your search & it is a great sport for the family (what you getting your wife hehehe)
Michelle

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Truespode
Where do you live in Texas? You can post in the Places to Ride Forum about meeting up with some of the Texas DRN'ers and possibly get a test ride on a few bikes.

I'm in Dallas, but I'm not comfortable with the idea of asking people if I can ride their rides. Motorcycles are a very personal thing and I'm not really willing to go there. It's too bad I don't have friends that ride, that would be the easy answer.

Thanks for the suggestion,

Jason

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

This thread has helped me alot so far. Thanks to all who submitted things to consider.

I think that it would be wise for me to seek a KDX or an EXC as the more ideal rides, but I also know that funds and availability will be a factor. Therefore I will not stand against getting a 125 if a good deal comes along. If only I were lighter and could ride an 80

Thanks again everyone,

Jason

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Grissom29

I'm in Dallas, but I'm not comfortable with the idea of asking people if I can ride their rides. Motorcycles are a very personal thing and I'm not really willing to go there. It's too bad I don't have friends that ride, that would be the easy answer.

That is why I said to post that you wanted to meet up with some DRN'ers in the Places to Ride Forum. You can go, watch riding and have a good time. You will meet some good people and become friends.

You may not get a ride out of the deal but you will have a good time and meet good people. Eventually you will have riding friends but you have to go to where they hang out and introduce yourself.

If you are ever my way (South Carolina) let me know.

Ivan

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Michelle,

There is no longer a wife. She left my son and me last year, and that's her loss. Though she claims otherwise, I believe she would never have stood for this. The next one will need to have her own when we first meet.

We are moving in February from our apartment to a town home with a garage. There is low traffic there so I will be buying him a bicycle and teaching him to ride it. When I'm comfortable with his abilities (balance), I will be buying him his first motorcycle. I look forward to spending weekends on the bikes and camping with him.

He is already excited about motorcycling because I just recently bought a street bike. I'm not sure who is more excited, me or him?

Thanks again for your input Michelle,

Jason

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Ivan,

I better understand what you mean now. I'd not considered going someplace like that unless I already had one of my own. I'll consider it, but most likely I'd feel like a fish out of water.

Since you've extended an invite, I'll gladly give you a holler if I ever visit your neck of the woods.

Jason

Posted by: darringer---------------------

Grissom, if you plan on buying your son a bike first, when you take him out to ride, there will be plenty of opportunity to ride different bikes. You will be surprised how many people are willing to let you ( and actually want you) to ride their bike to see if you like it. I know you stated how it is uncomfortable for you to do this, but don't discount this option. It can be extremely helpful in choosing the "right" bike for you. Fellow riders are always ready to help each other out.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by darringer
Grissom, if you plan on buying your son a bike first, when you take him out to ride, there will be plenty of opportunity to ride different bikes. You will be surprised how many people are willing to let you ( and actually want you) to ride their bike to see if you like it. I know you stated how it is uncomfortable for you to do this, but don't discount this option. It can be extremely helpful in choosing the "right" bike for you. Fellow riders are always ready to help each other out.

That is great to know. Fellowship and brotherhood are important in any pasttime.

I initially indicated that I might get his first, but after doing some thinking I'm going to wait until he can ride a bicycle without training wheels first.

If the opportunity presents itself, I suppose I'd try some peoples bikes. I just didn't want to be the one asking.

Thanks for your input as well

Jason

Posted by: darringer---------------------

If you explain your situation, my bet is most riders will push you on the bike to ride. We're very proud of our own bikes, and like to show them off whenever possible!

Posted by: Imho---------------------

Hey Grissom29, welcome back to the fold.

Your story sounds very familiar. I started on an XR75 then jumped to a CR125 at about the same ages as you and moved on from bikes when I got a car license.

I can't comment on the the KDX (there are plenty here who can) but I can vouch for the KTM 250/300EXC two-strokes and the 400/450EXC four-strokes. They are great woods bikes and fairly easy to handle. The 300EXC has a bit more down low than the 250, which adds to the ease of use in more difficult terrain. They are also not as peaky as a 250 motocrosser. The four-strokes feel a bit heavier but make up for it in other ways. My personal preference is for the four-strokes but to each his own. Before making a decision, try and ride as many of the options as possible, the four-stroke scene has changed quite a bit from the TT/XT's of a few years back. Bear in mind that dirt bikes are a bit different to road bikes and a lot of people feel comfortable letting you ride their dirt bike when they wouldn't let you touch their road bike.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by darringer
If you explain your situation, my bet is most riders will push you on the bike to ride. We're very proud of our own bikes, and like to show them off whenever possible!

LOL, that's good to hear. Why oh why did I wait soooooo long to try and return?

Jason

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

IMHO,

Thanks for the info! I'm getting more and more excited by the post...

For some reason I'm still leaning to the 2 stroke, but I honestly don't have any legitimate supporting reasons for it. I just loved the 2 strokes then, and that still holds true. Perhaps part of it is that my Savage has a nice throttle, but I still want more at my disposal? I remember that hard hitting power and really enjoyed it. I just hope I can still handle it.

thanks again for your input,

Jason

Posted by: Imho---------------------

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating two-stroke over four-stroke or vise-versa (that would be a grave mistake). I'm just saying "try before you buy", if you can. No matter what you buy, I don't think you'll regret getting back on the horse, especially when your kids are involved too.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Imho
I'm not advocating two-stroke over four-stroke or vise-versa (that would be a grave mistake). I'm just saying "try before you buy", if you can. No matter what you buy, I don't think you'll regret getting back on the horse, especially when your kids are involved too.

I didn't think you were. Your just giving your opinion and I appreciate it. It's up to me to try and sort out all the opinions and figure out what applies to me.

Thanks again for your input, everyone has been very helpful so far.

Jason

Posted by: Imho---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Grissom29
It's up to me to try and sort out all the opinions and figure out what applies to me.

Absolutely! Opinions are like a*se-holes, everyone has one.

It's fun sorting it all out though. Nights reading forums, checking reviews, reading magazines, looking at pictures, the anticip-p-p-pation ... ah, I miss it.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Imho
Opinions are like a*se-holes, everyone has one.

Heh... a friend of mine used to say "Opinions are like a*se-holes, everyone has one. And to some degree, they all stink."

The anticipation is ok... it's the fulfillment that kicks arse!

Anyways... speaking of anticipation...

Today on the way home from work I had an interesting experience. I was talking to my son about motorcycles again. He asked about my first one so I was telling him about it. About how I used to ride around our acre yard, the nieghborhood... the first time I rode around the canal of the lake we lived by... my discovery of a bull in a pen that was really pissed off at me for parking next to his pen... Suddenly while turning into our apartment complex... I totally forgot where I was. I was lost. It only took a second or two, but for a moment I could almost smell that bull, my fear, and the excitement of goosing that throttle and running away.

Those were the days... soon... again soon...

Jason

Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Jason:

You and your son need to hook up with us and go to Muenster. You found us here so therefor you have elevated to the level of a friend because of interest, desire and commitment to learning and understanding. :thumb:

Posted by: truespode---------------------

Jason,

Tony is one of the nicest and most helpful guys on DRN (and in person) so I highly recommend meeting him and seeing how things go.

Ivan

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Eeds
You and your son need to hook up with us and go to Muenster. You found us here so therefor you have elevated to the level of a friend because of interest, desire and commitment to learning and understanding. :thumb:

I'll take you up on that offer. I'm sure it will be quite a learning experience. I have my son every other weekend; and as a point of reference, this weekend is mine.

Feel free to email me at: jason@crashbox.org

Jason

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Truespode
Tony is one of the nicest and most helpful guys on DRN (and in person) so I highly recommend meeting him and seeing how things go.

Ivan

Thanks for the headsup Ivan.

I wanted to tell you that I liked your website, and enjoyed watching your videos this morning!

Jason

Posted by: Stan_Flemmings---------------------

I think everyone you talk to will vouch that Tony is indeed a great guy :thumb:

As for the 4stroke vs 2stroke, you still seem wishy-washy there. The main differences are weight, handling, starting, and maintainance. If you go with a Honda XR, all you need to do is change the oil and clean the air filter. With a modern-day rocket fourstroke, maintainance is much more involved.

It used to be that the beauty of a 4stroke was lack of maintainance. Now, it is the other way around. That is the beauty of a two stroke-simple and easy to work on.

Just something to think about...

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Stan,

That is a very good subject that you brought up. While I am willing to learn and maintain my own machine as much as possible, I do not have past mechanical experience. It would probably be best from that standpoint to focus on simplicity.

I figure I'm going to buy a shop manual for whatever I get and do as much as I can. The local shop can earn their wage on the rest.

Thanks for pointing this out to me,

Jason

Posted by: TrailDale---------------------

FYI - I found this out the hard way.

What I found out is that riding with my daughters (9 and 13) as a parent is completely different than the riding you did as a kid. I tried riding my WR250F with the daughters on their XR70 & 80 and wore myself out. Constantly stopping, turning around, stopping, restarting, stopping again, picking up daughter #1, restarting, killing it, restarting again, where's daughter #2, she was just here?, turning around, stopping, restarting, . . .
you get the picture. It was a challenge to actually ride since the bike was always running on the hot side and all the restarting was a pain.

So I got a CRF230F with the magic button. This bike is just perfect for riding with the girls. Its a completely different experience. Trying to ride a "race bike" at a 6-year-old's pace will be a bit of a challenge.

Conclusion - until junior is a capable trail monster, riding your preferred trail bike may be less pleasurable than expected. You may need to compromise on what you ride to start with - or even consider a second bike like a dirt cheap XR200 or something like that for the days on the trail with a 6 or 7 year old.

The CRF230F is the official camp bike, and is the wife bike when she rides. Otherwise, the WR250F is just used on the buddy rides where it can be ridden at the speeds for which it was intended. Maybe a new WR with electric start would be a possibility?

Posted by: DougRoost---------------------

I had a modern 4 stroke and went back to the 2 stroke since you just can't beat the fun/$$. Maintenance is just so much less and easier, and the 2 stroke snap is a hoot and better for clearing logs and such.

Posted by: Stan_Flemmings---------------------

Some people may tell you that you need to do a top end(ie piston, rings) on a two stroke every season, every so and so hours, etc...

This isn't neccesarily true. If you're an all-out racer and your looking for that .0001 horsepower that fresh rings will add after each race, then yes. If you are just a play rider on weekends, you can go much longer. On a two stroke, you can tell when it will need a top end.
Even when it does need a top end, it is something that the average "shade tree" mechanic can do. Very simplistic. No valves, cams, etc like a 4stroke.

My dad just got a new MX 4 stroke bike, and is realizing that this bike will take more maintainace. Thats just a compromise you have to make.

You're welcome to come ride at Muenster with us any time. We just had a club ride there, and are already wanting to do it again.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Traildale,

You raise another great point to consider. Here are my thoughts...

My son will most likely not get his for another year or so after talking it over with his mother. I'm going to wait for him to develop his balance on a bicycle first. That was the concession that she wanted. I don't mind doing that, and will spend time with him developing that this year.

I think what I'll do is go ahead and get what I'd like for myself first. When I get his, I'll give it all a try. If it isn't going to work out, then I'll get something to ride with him, even if it's a little bike that I only putt around with him on. Something like an old XR like you mentioned, etc...

Thanks for sharing your experience with me,

Jason

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Stan,

I'm really leaning to a 2-stroke now that you've pointed out the maintenance issues. I do plan to do what I can, which will require me to learn things I do not currently know. I just don't think the high performance 4 stroke will be the right platform to my bike mechanics on.

When you say "shade tree" mechanic, it gives me the impression that you could do that kind of work anywhere provided there's enough lighting and weather conditions are right. Is this an accurate inference?

I think I'm going to look for a used 2 stroke... KDX, EXC, or any of the other MX'ers and just get myself something that in my budget. I'll have to wait for the IRS check to come in first though. I'll also probably need to learn what to do about the seat height to give me an inch or two advantage. 37 inches is fairly high when your inseam is 30. What can I do to get that down to around 34(ish)?

I would really like to come out and meet you all that ride here in the DFW area. It might be a good month+ until my purchase, but I look forward to getting back in the saddle.

Thanks again,

Jason

Posted by: DougRoost---------------------

Jason, I also have a 30" inseam. You do have to set the sag of the rear suspension for your weight, at which point the bike will "squat" down a bit. I do just fine on a full-sized, stock KTM 300exc. But I have to admit that until I rode it I wouldn't have believed so!

You are also correct on your assumption about the conditions you need to do the work in. A 2 stroke top end is something you can easily do in an afternoon -- 30 minutes once you've done a few.

I strongly recommend you go to Eric Gorr's Web site and buy his book called Motocross and Offroad Performance Handbook. This book tells you everything you'd ever want to know about buying and selling a used dirt bike, setting up your bike, doing top ends, and all the weaknesses of many of the most popular bike, going back 20 years! The companion one on riding techniques is also excellent. Go to http://www.ericgorr.com/books/books.html and you can read all about them. These 2 books were the best ~$50 I've spent in this sport and answer 80% of the questions you see posted on forums like these.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Doug,

Thanks. This is probably the best forum thread I've ever been a part of. I have learned alot and am greatly appreciative of all the infomation and insight.

I'm going to go check out that site now.

Thanks again,

Jason

Posted by: Smit-Dog---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Grissom29
... When you say "shade tree" mechanic, it gives me the impression that you could do that kind of work anywhere provided there's enough lighting and weather conditions are right. Is this an accurate inference?

It's funny some of the expressions we use....

Now, don't take offense Grissom, but just curious...

Are you from outside the States originally?

Or maybe that expression isn't familiar to those from Texas... but Stan is from Texas...

FWIW, "shade tree mechanic" just refers to the classic situation of a guy working on his car, in his yard, under a shade tree. Meaning the average handyman can do it, without specialized tools, and you don't need a professionally certified mechanic to perform the work. It does not mean that these bikes in particular are especially easy to work on under a shade tree!

Anyway, it just reminded me of funny expressions we Americans have, and just as other countries/cultures have. Spent New Year's Eve with a guy from England, and this came up. Those Brits have some weird sayings!

When my son was 5, I was telling him about septic tanks, and how they are buried about 8' underground. After a minute or two, he asked me "Is that 8 of your feet, or 8 of my feet."

< Back on topic warning...>

I also have a 30" inseam, and straddle a KDX with no problem. The seats on them are fairly soft. You would not have a problem. I also ride with guys shorter than me who ride bikes taller than a KDX. They take off the seat cover, trim down the seat foam with an electric knife to lower the seat height.

Posted by: darringer---------------------

I agree with the above posts. Also a 30" inseamer, I have shaved down the seat foam and even shortened my subframe on my cr250 to make it more comfortable for trails. As far as maintenance, since I'm not racing around that much, there really is no need for top end service very often. I ride every other weekend, on average, so I do a top end about every 2 years. And the cost is only $120. I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to work on your bike once you start. Eric Gorr's books are an excellent source of info, as are these forums. Both have helped me on numerous occassions, especially with bike setup. For me, the 2-stroke was the only way to go because I wanted the lightest bike I could find. Also, that is all I rode as a kid, and love the snap of the motor.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Smit-Dog
Now, don't take offense Grissom, but just curious...

Are you from outside the States originally?

Or maybe that expression isn't familiar to those from Texas... but Stan is from Texas...

FWIW, "shade tree mechanic" just refers to the classic situation of a guy working on his car, in his yard, under a shade tree. Meaning the average handyman can do it, without specialized tools, and you don't need a professionally certified mechanic to perform the work. It does not mean that these bikes in particular are especially easy to work on under a shade tree!

No offense taken.

I was born in Arlington, Texas and have lived in Tx most of my life. The family moved to Louisiana for about 5 years with my father's employment when I was a kid. We came back to Texas as soon as we could!

I have never heard that expression before. Perhaps it's because I've not been around many environments to have mechanical discussions. Though I didn't convey my interpretation very well, I basically understood your meaning but may have viewed it a bit more literal. I got a connotation of being able to do the work anywhere (even the field or campsite, not just the garage) with some basic knowledge, not requiring professional assistance.

It's always good to learn new terminology. Thanks for sharing.

Jason

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by darringer
I agree with the above posts. Also a 30" inseamer, I have shaved down the seat foam and even shortened my subframe on my cr250 to make it more comfortable for trails. As far as maintenance, since I'm not racing around that much, there really is no need for top end service very often. I ride every other weekend, on average, so I do a top end about every 2 years. And the cost is only $120. I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to work on your bike once you start. Eric Gorr's books are an excellent source of info, as are these forums. Both have helped me on numerous occassions, especially with bike setup. For me, the 2-stroke was the only way to go because I wanted the lightest bike I could find. Also, that is all I rode as a kid, and love the snap of the motor.

Wow, your my size and you ride a CR250? That is great to know. I did manage fairly well when I was a teen on my CR125, and I weigh about 30 more pounds than I did back then.

I think you have pushed the final inch for a 2 stroke for me. I will prefer lighter weight, and I loved the snap of the motor as well. I will likely tune mine more for low to mid-range but will want it to scream when I request it. My street bike is causing me to realize that I still have those tendencies, and the dirt is the place for it.

Thank you Darringer,

Jason

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

BTW...

I can be contacted directly now at: *EDIT* jason@_thiswebsite_.net[/email] :thumb:

*EDIT* I removed the address because I'm getting spam on this account now... I knew better than to do that. GRRR!!!!

Jason

Posted by: Tony Eeds---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Grissom29
BTW...

I can be contacted directly now at: jason@dirtrider.net :thumb:

Jason

Thank you for your support SIR. The support is appreciated.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Eeds
Thank you for your support SIR. The support is appreciated.

It was my pleasure! This is a great forum! You guys didn't make the decision tough at all. :thumb:

Now if I could just get my boss to give me my W2 early so I can get that IRS check sooner... I'll be riding something soon.

Jason

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

I just wanted to say that this thread has been extremely helpful to me in my research.

I also wanted to share some of my thoughts that have been developed as a result of my research.

I have decided I want a 2 stroke, and ultimately I would like that to be either a KDX or an EXC.

From what I'm seeing available via ebaymotors, cycletrader, and my local papers though... there doesn't seem to be as many KDX or EXC on the market. That speaks volumes to me about the fact that people like their rides and want to keep them. There have been a few available but the price range is not going to be in my range. We shall see when we get there though, you never know what's going to pop up.

In the event that I do not find what I'm looking for at that time, I am not opposed to buying a 125 MX bike to ride for a season. This would get me up and getting reaquainted with the sport. My studies indicate that this would not be an ideal long term bike for me, but I have ridden one before and did fine with it on a similiar type of riding. I'm more interested in getting back up there than getting the perfect ride. I've got the rest of my life ahead of me to save to buy a brand new KDX or EXC as an upgrade if I need to.

For now I think I will try and research the different characteristics of the various 125's so that if I need to go that route, I know more about how my preferences relate to them. As always, input is welcome here..

Thanks again for all the input everyone!

Jason

*Edited for spelling*

Posted by: Smit-Dog---------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Grissom29
... From what I'm seeing available via ebaymotors, cycletrader, and my local papers though... there doesn't seem to be as many KDX or EXC on the market.

You'll probably see a spike in used bike ads around February/March/April as people get the dirt bike bug in the early spring.

Also check your local AMA district web site or district newspaper for classified ads. Not sure what your district is, but my AMA district (D-14) has classified ads on their web site and monthly newspaper.

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

Smit-Dog,

That is good news for me then, as I should be shopping in March. Thanks for pointing this out to me.

I'll look into the AMA as well. I'd not thought of that.

BTW... that's a great looking KDX your selling. I hope I find something like that in March.

Jason

Posted by: Grissom29---------------------

I also just came across this listing of classifieds as well in case anyone else needs the resource.

Texas Offroad Network

Jason

Posted by: darringer---------------------

After my 20 year layoff, I started back up on a 125. It was a good way for me to re-acquaint myself with the fundamentals of riding again. What surprised me was that although my brain knew what to do, my 40+ year old body was not quite as quick to follow. The 125 gave me a margin of safety that my 250 does not. Transition to the 250 was much easier after about a year on the 125. After about 6 months I was getting bored with the 125 power. By the way, all 3 of my recent bikes came from Ebay. I have been fortunate, as you must be exteremely careful with the quality of bikes that are found there. Also, in my case, the mechanical condition was not a major issue if the price was right, since working on the bikes are not a chore to me, but a pleasure. Sorry for the long post, but thought this might help.

Darrin

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