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Fooling yourselves!
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Posted by: angry jim---------------------

I too would like to believe that next years supercross season will be great with James Stewart moving up. However, I refuse to fool myself into thinking that ANYONE has a chance against Stewart. Everyone will be headed back to the drawing board next year. At least the 125 class will be interesting again. I hope Reed enjoys this season, because they'll all battle for 2nd next year.

Posted by: JPIVEY---------------------

I don't know, I wouldn't be fooled into the believing that Stewart is going to dominate 250s, but, both 125 & 250s are going to tighten up.

I thought he was going 250 for the outdoors???, maybe we'll get a hint of what's to come

Posted by: ktm033---------------------

I thought he was staying with the 125's outdoors since he didn't win the championship last year.

Posted by: Vic---------------------

There may be a lot of pain and suffering as everyone struggles to keep Bubba in sight.

Posted by: nephron---------------------

What's most amazing about him (to me) is his ability to french the bike and make it land on the downside of a jump in a way that takes no forward motion away from the bike. Also, last week Reed said in the post conference (Atlanta) that, in response to a question as to why a 125 rider was posting faster laptimes...'he's got better corner speed at the moment, and that's something we're all going to need to work on.' At least he's honest about it.

Posted by: super rat---------------------

125's=Corner speed=fast laps

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

whats that smell?

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Cut bait?

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

hmmm, rotting horse flesh i think????

Posted by: Thump---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by super rat

125's=Corner speed=fast laps

Than why don't all the 250 guys ride 125's if they would be faster on them?

Daytona was a WIDE open track as far as SX is concerned. IMO the more wide open the track the faster Bubba is. The other SX tracks this year have been FAR more tight and by your assesment more adventagous to good corner speed, yet Daytona, the most open SX track was the first race where a 125 had the fastest lap time. With out the exit acceleration of the 250 the 125's have had to be substaintially faster just to be close to the 250's times on a tight course.

125=half the displacement=half the exit acceleration=slower lap times (minus the Bubba factor)

Posted by: JPIVEY---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktm033

I thought he was staying with the 125's outdoors
.

I don't know, I dont follow SX that close..........Don't get me wrong, I love watching this guys on the track, I just don't think there's going to be much checking out like we've seen he last 2 yrs

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Is this the 1st time a 125 has posted the fastest lap in a sx?? i know rc has come close when he was 125?

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thump

So the key to getting low lap times is acceleration? Damn it!! To think of all of the time I have wasted working on corner speed, all I need is a pipe and a port job. LOL!!

I'm just busting on ya thumper. It's no secret that I'm not the worlds biggest Bubba fan but the lap time thing is nothing new 125's have always turned lap times that are close to 250's so the acceleration thing is out the window, sorry. You don't really think that 125's pull only half as hard as a 250 do you?

Posted by: Thump---------------------

I know you're just bustin my chops Rat. The lap time thing is new this year though. Yes 125's in the past have posted times close to the 250's but not every week the way Bubba is doing this year and I don't recall a 125 ever posting the fastest lap time of the main in SX or MX.

Whether you are a fan of Bubba's or not you should get use to him visiting the podium. He is not just a good rider, he does things on a bike that make you question what that Newton fellow had to say about gravity. Bubba is here to stay and while he is here he is going to win some titles.

Thump's prediction for 2005 (just an opinion)
No one in the 250 class will be able to run with him. Not in SX, not in MX. I doubt he will win every race because he will probably go down a few times and give someone else the opportunity, but I would be surprised if he gets beat head to head the way Kdub has challenged Reed and Carmichael.

Posted by: super rat---------------------

There once was this guy who went by the name O'show........ I think he put down some pretty fast lap times on a 125 at this BIG race in europe..... It was a HP track big hills and what not.... Nothing new with what Bubbas doing, Sorry. I get a kick out of guys who think that you go faster on a bigger bike, at our level especially.

Hey man, I got eyes and I have seen Bubba ride, He's a freak of nature no doubt. We will see when he moves up if he has the heart to beat RC for a MX title, till then it's just alot of talk. I don't think your out in left field with your prediction thought, the kids got mad skills, there is no denying it.

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Quote:

he does things on a bike that make you question what that Newton fellow had to say about gravity.

Newton was obviously wrong, but how did Bubba know it? Did Sr bust out some Relativity lessons? I doubt it. Witness a special creature of God.

Quote:

We will see when he moves up if he has the heart to beat RC for a MX title, till then it's just alot of talk.

The 'heart' is optional. His love for riding, fame and winning is so much more effective for him than 'heart', it's not funny. Consider those races where he did fall, then worked his way through half the field in about 1.5 laps. Is that heart? Talent? Desire? What the hell does it matter? He'll do the same thing next year anyway.

Posted by: truespode---------------------

If I remember correctly Bubba had the fastest lap time last year at Budd's Creek.

Ivan

Posted by: Jon K.---------------------

[QUOTE=Thump]Than why don't all the 250 guys ride 125's if they would be faster on them?
QUOTE]

Interesting question. Overboring (to reach displacement) is allowed, but I'm thinking the homologation thing would stop anyone from riding a 125 in the 250 class.

Could you imagine the uproar?

Perhaps with some creative rules interpretation . . . .

Posted by: Timr---------------------

Here's my comment on Bubba: I was in the stands and he was clearly faster than even Reed! He had two sections of the track that no one else could get through as smoothly and quickly as he did. I'm sure you saw this on TV, after the 250 main, Reed limped over to the podium; Bubba looked like he could've gone another 15 laps.

Posted by: biglou---------------------

Timr-Reed also went down hard and knocked himself silly right before the finish.

Jon K.-I just read a section in the AMA rules in the American Motorcyclist mag about being disqualified/fined/penalized for riding a bike of improper engine size. The example given was something like: "Example-riding a 200cc bike in the 250-up class", or something similar to that. Not sure how this all translates to the SX, however.

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Hey Doc, don't underestimate how big of a part Heart is in a champion. Steel city this year is a good example on the size of RC's heart. Do you rember how fast Bradshaw was? But Stanton......

Maybe Bubba is so fast that RC's heart will be a non factor. I don't know neither does anyone else, but I doubt it.

And Bubba only did 15 laps, support class and all. I don't have Speedvision so I didn't see the race but I heard Bubba looked spent after the 15 laps, there is no shame in that, I'm just saying.

Posted by: Timr---------------------

Yes, I know that Reed went down right before the finish. Dr. Bodnar came over to check him out. Reed stayed on his bike for a couple of minutes before he limped over to the podium.

When Bubba finished the race, he rode out onto the daytona sign, burned a donut, spray painted the #3 in the D in Daytona, then ran to the fence to throw his gloves, goggles, helmet and Jersey into the crowd, then ran over to the podium to give an interview. I'm pretty sure that 5 more laps wouldn't have been that big a deal for him.

It wasn't that hot since it was night time. Earlier in the day, it was very steamy with high temps and high humidity.

Posted by: Reesknight---------------------

I'm amazed that these guys can even speak after a race on that track. Reed does 20 laps and goes down hard, possibly cracking ribs or whatever, then has a mic in his face giving an interview before he can even get off his bike and he's not even out of breath.

Posted by: Thump---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by super rat

There once was this guy who went by the name O'show........ I think he put down some pretty fast lap times on a 125 at this BIG race in europe..... It was a HP track big hills and what not.... Nothing new with what Bubbas doing, Sorry. I get a kick out of guys who think that you go faster on a bigger bike, at our level especially.

That race in Europe that you speak of.... Who had the fastet lap time and what were they riding? Who actually won the race? And by what margin did he win?

I know the answers but it would be far better to hear you tell me in this thread.

The O'show was fast that day no doubt, but not the fastest, and he did not do it on a weekly basis to the athletes racing the AMA MX series.

Posted by: whyzee---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by truespode

If I remember correctly Bubba had the fastest lap time last year at Budd's Creek.
Ivan

Good call Ivan :thumb: :
02:20.500 Moto 2 RICKY CARMICHAEL HON 250

02:20.130 Moto 1 JAMES M STEWART KAW 125

I have the feeling Bubba is clocking plenty of hours on the 250 at every private track team green can book. I'm not sure when his contract expires (I heard sometime this year) but there is a factory that is going to pay him a LOT of money in 2005. Hon...d.....!!!

Posted by: Vic---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by super rat

You don't really think that 125's pull only half as hard as a 250 do you?

The maximum torque of a 125 is roughly half that of a 250.

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thump

The O'show was fast that day no doubt, but not the fastest, and he did not do it on a weekly basis to the athletes racing the AMA MX series.

LOL!! Alright man, I'll let it go.

Posted by: BEEF706---------------------

We beating this horse again? Maybe he will be the best ever before it's all done, but he hasn't done it yet. (PS I think he will, but he has to DO it. Championships arent handed out on potential and talent; ask the Dogger).

Posted by: lwsmithjr---------------------

Quote:

I just read a section in the AMA rules in the American Motorcyclist mag about being disqualified/fined/penalized for riding a bike of improper engine size. The example given was something like: "Example-riding a 200cc bike in the 250-up class", or something similar to that. Not sure how this all translates to the SX, however.

Didn't Brock Sellards ride a KTM 200SX @ Vegas last year?

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwsmithjr

Didn't Brock Sellards ride a KTM 200SX @ Vegas last year?

yes, but it's probably not that big a deal since the US Open is a one-off event, not part of any series.

Posted by: fuzzy---------------------

Quote:

If I remember correctly Bubba had the fastest lap time last year at Budd's Creek.

Blew my mind!! It had rained for about a month straight, and only after a cuople days of drying it rained the night before the main. The track couldn't hold much power(The reason RC didn't win the 1st moto). Their HS track held my WR in a quicksand trench for about 1/2hr while I heaved trailside. Budd's was a mess last year, but I LOVED every minute of it--every year...

Posted by: dirty~d~---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timr

Here's my comment on Bubba: I was in the stands and he was clearly faster than even Reed! He had two sections of the track that no one else could get through as smoothly and quickly as he did. I'm sure you saw this on TV, after the 250 main, Reed limped over to the podium; Bubba looked like he could've gone another 15 laps.

Reed took some handlebars to the chest... Bubba did not. The fact that Reed was limping and Bubba was not means nothing.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Wanna make odds Reed has a lot of reasons to "limp" to the finish line next year?

Sorry everyone, but 259 is going to spank the world in 05.

All the naysayer's have only a few months to disagree, better get busy.

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Okie your prediction record speaks for itself. LMAO!!

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

that was just stupid rat.

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Hows that? The whole time I have been hear I can't recall one of your many predictions that you have been right on, Bubba may be your first. lol

Maybe you could dig one up for me.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

How many races has reed sat out due to injury?-not many-bubba has done a few now(in his short time in the pro ranks)-that says to me if bubba crashes at his incredible speed he will get hurt.He then misses more races and reed and kw and rc all fight it out again.

Bubba is unreal no doubt but you cant hand him nothing till he has earned it-hes not turned a 250 wheel in anger yet, its very different to a practice track, rc and the others are not the same as the current 125 riders-they wont go away and the big bikes require more respect-you just cannot get away with as much-does bubba really know this yet? in racing conditions when the title is on the line??

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

It won't take long to find out rat. Be patient.

It's so easy to say the kid won't do well, we'll see. It's as if many think there is a huge difference at the pro level between a 250 and a 125. When you are as good as some of these guys are, I really don't think there is *much of a learning curve. Only time will tell. In the meantime, I guess it's a waste to discuss it.

When are we going to stop hearing about the ONE crash of Stewart's that cost him the title (and allowed Langston to win it?) If you guys want to discuss a rider that can't handle the 250's, there's your guy!

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

instead of worrying so much about Stewart moving up another class and Stewarts lap times, i think you guys should worry a bit more about moving up to the next class and improving your own lap times

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

lol... good point.

Posted by: BEEF706---------------------

Someone times your laps????

I tried it once but everybody got tires, put down the calender and went home!

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Your alright Okie, you can take it just as well as you give it. Good on ya!!

Posted by: super rat---------------------

At this stage of my life I'm trying to move down classes. LOL!!

Posted by: angry jim---------------------

Who cares about OUR lap times!

Stewart is changing the way motorcycles are ridden. You are witnessing a revolution

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Quote:

hes not turned a 250 wheel in anger yet, its very different to a practice track, rc and the others are not the same as the current 125 riders-

I'm so tired of hearing how the 250 class is an entire world above the 125 class. Better? Yes--but not as much as it's played out. lol, all the 250 riders came from the 125 class. Consider Travis Preston, who jumps in the 250 class and scores better than in the 125. How about Nick Wey? He's better than last year as well. Short? Look at that guy fly on a 250. I don't buy it.

Marcus, you continue to claim that Bubba is injury prone. He's been injured ONCE, as I recall. Reed, at least twice. Langston, 14,546. James' injury just happened to be serious enough to require a rest.

And with this new 'no contact' racing, JBS will have free reign next year at the 25 yardline in the front of the pack.

Posted by: Reesknight---------------------

If i recall, RC had no competition in the 125s either. I think he may have something for JS in the 250s. RC hates to lose and I think JS will cause him to work that much harder. It will be interesting and i don't think anyone will be a shoe in.

Posted by: Jon K.---------------------

There will undoubtably be crashes and perhaps injuries in the 250s when Stewart moves up.

But it won't be Stewart doing the crashing, it will be the rest of the guys (in particular it will be RC!) trying to match Bubba's pace.

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nephron

Marcus, you continue to claim that Bubba is injury prone. He's been injured ONCE, as I recall. Reed, at least twice. Langston, 14,546. James' injury just happened to be serious enough to require a rest.

i think he was claiming that Stewart was accident prone, as witnessed by the number of times he fell off during that SX season- remember the one where he was under the bike and bigdaddy walked out in discust??? i think he crashed 3-4 times in that one race alone.

Posted by: JPIVEY---------------------

My prediction is it's going to be a 4 way battle, I also predict that the first time JS busts a move Mike Larocco shhhhhmacks him upside the head.

One things for certain, the runaways will be over

Posted by: jsned---------------------

The race were he crashed 3-4 times, wasnt that because his front brake was messed up?

You would think that when he is practicing or playing around these days he would ride the 250 to get as use to it as possible. For him to practice with the 125 is a waste of time. Whatever the difference (if there is one or not)between the two bikes is better to find out now before you get there. Does anybody know what he rides for practice???

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Neph not so much accident prone-just has accidents bad enought to put him out of winning the titles.So far i am right, not saying bubba cant ride a 250-just they requires more respect-look at rc-think he didnt practice like mad on one before he raced one.Its not the level of riders is so much higher(it is higher however) its the fact a 250 wont let you do what a 125 will.Thats what catches most out.

I think if bubba was willing to get a few 2nds and 3rd places he could walk off with the 250 crown-i dont think he will accept 2nd or 3rds.

As for my predictions i can root out the thread where i said reed was a real threat when he came to the states, and few believed me-now i dont hear people saying reed cant win.

Posted by: JPIVEY---------------------

Quote:

I dont think he will accept 2nd or 3rds.

There's so much hype about this already,I don't think RC or CR will either; Egos are going to get in the way and it's going to be fun too watch.

Posted by: Garyb---------------------

Stewart is going to get hurt riding the 250, and when that happens he will start to get slower.
Within 2 years he will be midpack.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garyb

Stewart is going to get hurt riding the 250, and when that happens he will start to get slower.
Within 2 years he will be midpack.

I'll assume that was a troll, lol.

Reed? No doubt a great SX specialist.
Frankly, I think you need to consider both Nats and SX to determine how "great" a rider is, if you want to have a place amoung the best ever. If Reed picks-it-up outdoors....

As it stands now, Reed has to be considered one of the best indoors, but we'll have to see how many Championships he can string together.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

I think with a better handling bike outdoors he(reed) could be a threat 'IF' RC and Bubba crash out.

Posted by: zcookie49---------------------

Bubba will also have to deal with having others right on his ass the whole time. case in point, Kdub this past weekend with Travis.
Bubba is unchallenged in the 125's, no pressure on his back wheel. his lap times are there with the big boys, which means that next year, more than likely, there should be a cluster of riders up front with about the same speed, give or take.
The only thing I will predict for 2005 is some of the Best racing ever.

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Quote:

and few believed me-now i dont hear people saying reed cant win.

I'm one of those guys, and absolutely believe you now. And I already admitted to eating crow to the big Grinch. Reed is awesome. But, your second comment about him having a better handling bike for next year....I'd hate, but have to, disagree with your intention there. Reed has got the perfect style for SX, and is just absolutely one of the funnest guys to watch out there because of it, but that style doesn't seem to translate as well to MX. Oh, it certainly translates well--but not quite as good as the hard ground-poundin' style of RC, or Windham's mysteriously perfect technique (best all around 250 rider at this point).

I'm an idiot, but that's just how I see it.

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Doc, I don't know what is funnier, you saying that you could ride your 500 wfo around the dilla or you saying that Kdub is the best all around 250 rider at this point. Have you seen any of the races this year? How many 250 titles has kdub ever won?
I got some extra cash that says that Kdub don't win a 250 title this year too, want some?

Posted by: nephron---------------------

I meant riding right now (not including RC). Didn't mean to harm your RC sensitivities, rat.

Edit--and including MX, hence the all around thing.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Neph i was talking about reeds outdoor setup was bad last year-his bike looked nervous and the back end didnt seem to want to hook up well at all.I think thats why he went to 450 for a spell.I think if reed wins the SX he will be very motivated to prove he is a good outdoor rider-you havnt seen him ride properly outdoors yet IMO. With a good bike a bit of confidance and knowing the tracks/riders alot better now he could pull of some surprises-lets not forget he finished 2nd on the world Gps 1st tiem out, he did 3rd? at the 250 nationals-this guy can do it IMO.

Posted by: Patman---------------------

Marcus I remember when you and I were taking a beating over Skippy, now here we are watching him rack up the wins :thumb:

And I happen to agree with Marcus on the whole Bubba thing too.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Hey Marcus! How many years does Reed need to set up his suspension? :whiner:

Posted by: Vic---------------------

I think the the transition will be easier for Bubba than it was for RC, due to the fact that he's bigger. Plus, he can get away with more because he's so unbelievably relaxed on the bike.

Posted by: plysWfire---------------------

The reality is, the bar is going to be raised. If JBS is not the fastest guy, I guarantee that it's because everyone else found a way to get faster. I just hope it's not at the expense of more injuries.

deano...

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

Neph LOL, i think he should have sacked his tuner-maybe he had the same guy as GL??? his looks funny bad this year IMO.

Posted by: angry jim---------------------

I bet the next guy that beats Stewart for a title is in high school right now waiting for Lorreta Lynns.
The next few years will be very boring races watching Stewart 45 seconds ahead of second place. Those guys better see if they can drop down to the 125 class!

Posted by: JPIVEY---------------------

45 seconds my

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by angry jim

I bet the next guy that beats Stewart for a title is in high school right now

they dont go to school, they are home schooled- teenage prodigies are ten a penny around here. every other week we will have a 15 yr old 105lb kid turn up, ride a 450 and raise some serious eybrows the pro class.

not heard the name Alessi?? there are two of them. Milsaps and Hepler have done OK to say they are just 16.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

not heard the name Alessi?? there are two of them. Milsaps and Hepler have done OK to say they are just 16.

No doubt! Watch out for Milsaps! Hepler looks really solid and those Alessi boys are something. Nice to know there is a crop of new talent out there.

Posted by: weimedog---------------------

I don't think Bubba has anything to worry about from the Milsaps or Alessi's. I also don't think he will have any problem moving to the 250's....Some do but I don't think Bubba is one who will adapt.

Bubba has a gift in figuring out how to get the most out of what ever he is riding. He is smarter than the rest and has has the athletisizm to execute what he's figured out. Haven't seen many like him. The closest was Bob Hanna in his time before a water skiing accident put him out(skiing with his title rival).

All the 250's will do is give more for Bubba to play with. I can't wait actually...but I'm a die hard Bubba fan.

I hope those who are not Bubba fans can enjoy this phenomenom and appreciate history in progess. I didn't enjoy Bob Hanna in his time because I had a hard time with his attitude...Deja vue. I appreciate him more now. So now I can watch and enjoy Bubba with a less cluttered outlook.

My prediction? He will be another MC, RC, etc. ...If he doesn't fall into the same trap Travis did. Image over keeping his eye on the real ball...a long term dominating MX career.

Posted by: Antman---------------------

I've seen plenty of pics with Bubba practicing with a 250. He has black side panels with a white 259, but there is no mistaking the pipe sticking out the left side of the bike. He's gonna kick a$$ barring any major injury. 2nd place is gonna be super exciting with RC, K-dub, Pastrana, and Reed battling. SX 2005, can't wait.

Posted by: Jeff Howe---------------------

The only thing Pastrana will be known for in MX is how NOT to do things. Hey, can anybody help me out? I need a picture of David Vuillemin, Grant Langston and Travis Pastrana posing together, or photoshopped together somehow. I would like to have the image printed on canvas/cloth so it can be attached to my pit chair.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

The only thing Pastrana will be known for in MX is how NOT to do things.

That's possible if you assume he's not coming back. We're not talking about a 35 year old (all tho he may have the body of one) with very little carrer left. If he rides like he did in his heat at Daytona... who knows?

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

And he's out... sheez.

Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

On the webcast, they mentioned that Pastrana was planning on racing rally cars in Malaysia next weekend. Not sure if his latest injury will keep him home, but he wasn't going to be racing the Indy SX even if he was healthy.

Travis is very fortunate to have a factory SX/MX ride to play with in his spare time.

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