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Looking to get a new 250
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Posted by: bigred20---------------------

Hi everyone. I am looking at getting a new 250 motocross bike. I remember a couple years ago when I was looking at getting a bike that everyone I talked to said that they were pretty much the same it was just a matter of what color you like and how they feel. is it still pretty much the same way?

since I'm new, let me give you some background info on myself. I'm pretty new to bikes. I mean I've riden them before, but never have owned one. I'm 5'11, 170lbs, and am a senior in high school. About two years ago, when I was dead set on getting a KDX200 and almost had one, my uncle let me go down to his lake house and ride his 94 kdx200 and I fell in love w/ it. I wanted to get a MX bike, but since the closest track is like a 2 hour trip for me, and at 16, the finiancial constraints made me put off anything for a couple years. Then I found out that the college I am going to, Averett University, is in Danville and there is a track in Danville so I'm going to buy a MX bike to ride. Thanks for your help guys

Posted by: va_yzrider---------------------

KDX's are awesome bikes. I had a '99 that I loved, but I moved on to riding strictly on motocross/supercross tracks. The KDX doesn't perform up to par in this scenario. The bikes are basically the same, but they each have their niche. Also, you have to decide on whether you like the 4 strokes or 2 strokes. Personally, I would buy a 2004 YZ 250 (would do it tonight if I had the money in my pocket). The YZ's seem to have the best motor with fairly good suspension, CR seems to have the best suspension, RM's motor is right up there with the YZ, but a little different feel, KX sits lower and usually fits the shorter riders better and I hear the steering is great. KTM is all hopped up out of the box. So basically, all the bikes are good bikes, just a little different here and there.

Posted by: zookieman---------------------

Buy an RM250, KX250, YZ250, or a CR250. just look for the best deal on the newest bike possible. If you are going to ride a track you do not want a KDX, that is more of a woods enduro bike, and its suspension is geared more towards the trail than the high flying track. But if you want an all around bike get the kdx.

Posted by: bigred20---------------------

yeah I'm going to a few motorcycle shops this saturday to sit on them al and see how they feel. Now that you mention it, when I was at the cycle shop this passed weekend, the KX seemd to sit lower than the kdx. maybe it was just me. I like the YZ and the honda. I'm not sure about the RM though. which is eaiser to modify though, engine or suspension? I would say get the YZ b/c you need a good engine to start out w/. any thoughts?

Posted by: va_yzrider---------------------

I don't think it really matters as to which is easier to modify. You will definitely want to modify suspension before the engine. Have you ridden a 250 2 stroke? They are real beasts! I don't know many people who can actually use all of the power of a 250 2 stroke (well, maybe in the desert, but certainly not on an MX track). You will be faster on a bike that has the suspension set up for your riding ability/style, weight, and height.

The KX seems to be the favorite for the shorter riders and the price tag is usually the lowest too. The RM's seem to have skyrocketed in price due to the magazine ratings lately.

Also, I would like to point out that the dealer should play a large role in your selection. If the dealer seems like the type that won't want to help you out if you have problems, then don't buy from them.

All in all, I would go with the YZ for the simple fact that my YZ has been an overall awesome bike.

Posted by: bigred20---------------------

Thanks for your help guys

Va yzrider- what part of Virginia are you from? I'm from Richmond

I just got the call today that I got accepted into averett and I am awarded and 8600 dollar scholarship. Time to work the parents to see if I can get some of that for a bike

Posted by: showtime586---------------------

I would give some thought to a 250f too, unless you are hard core two stroke.

Posted by: bigred20---------------------

I haven't really thought of 4 strokes at all really. I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the suggestion

Posted by: va_yzrider---------------------

bigred20, I live in Richmond.

It might be a good idea to ride a 4 stroke to see what they are like. I guess either you love them or you hate them. Me personally, I hate 'em (but that's just me). Finding a really good dealer to work with in the Richmond area might be tough.

One other thing to consider if money is a problem, there are a lot of used (like 2002, 2003) 2 stroke 250's for sale right now for pretty good prices due to the popularity of the 4 strokes. You could probably get a great deal on one if your funds are short. New 250's are pretty expensive.

Posted by: bigred20---------------------

yeah I live in Richmond and yeah, it is hard to find a good dealer. I live on the west end of henrico and am going to burchams and ken's this sat.

No one I know owns a 4 stroke, and I'm almost positive that a a dealer wouldn't let me ride a new one, so that might be a little hard.

I was planning on buying new so that I can start fresh and not have any problems arise from a previous owner. How worried should I be of buying a used bike? are there a lot of things that could go wrong w/ it or b/c its a 2002 or 2003, being not that old, it won't have many problems, if any?

Posted by: va_yzrider---------------------

Well, sometimes you can find used bikes that have hardly been ridden. I was lucky enough to stumble across one. Buying used bikes can be tricky, but sometimes it is worth the gamble. I understand wanting to start fresh with a new bike. That is what I will do next time unless I find another shiny used bike with about 10 hours on it. The suspension is the first thing to check on a used bike. Also, feel out the owner and try to determine if they are the type of rider that would really give a bike a pounding or if they babied it.

Since you don't have the option of riding a 4 stroke, I'll give you my opinion (keep in mind that I am biased toward 2 strokes). They do have a ton of power down low, so if you tend to ride in the bottom of a gear, then a 4 stroke is the way to go. Me personally, I make sure to use every bit of a gear and always ride on the pipe, so the low end power didn't impress me much. I actually felt that my 2 stroke was faster overall than the 4 stroke, but that may be due to lack of 4 stroke experience. I didn't like the extra weight and the bulky feel of the 4 stroke. I felt it didn't handle turning as well, but my suspension is set up for me, the other guys bike wasn't. The bike rattled like nothing I've ever ridden. After a couple of laps my hands were numb. I think this is fairly common among 4 strokes. The power seems to be really stretched out throughout the powerband (what powerband?, oh well). This made it a little more difficult for me to set up for jumps in the last few feet. That could be learned with time though. Lastly, the engine braking drove me NUTS! Again, engine braking can be managed with experience, but overall the 4 stroke isn't for me.

Good luck!

Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

An 03 or 04 YZ250 seems like the bike for you. Around here you can get a barely used 03 yz for a couple thousand less, so I think that could save you some cash so you can hop it up and do the suspension. Good luck!

Posted by: bigred20---------------------

Again, thanks for your help guys.

One quick question regarding 4 strokes. why does a 250f race in the 125 class? but it displaces ~250cc? is it b/c being a 4 stroke, it only produces the power 1/2 the time that the 2 stroke would? but being a four stoke and having ~250cc of displacement, the two cancel each other out?

I'm 5'11" and 170(losing the weight). I know that I'm still growing and I want this bike to last me a while, I know that I would probably want to stick w/ a 250, but does a four stoke 250 still have the same power of that of a 2 stoke 250? I understand that a 250f would have more engine braking and low end, but overall, powerwise, are they the same?

Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

They race in the 125 class becasue thats what the rules say. They are faster than 125s, only because there 250s.
A 250f will not be the same as a 2502s. A 250 2-stroke will have about 10-15 more horsepower and twice the torque. It will not have more low end. They are completely differnt animals.

Posted by: _j0kA_---------------------

04rm250

Posted by: va_yzrider---------------------

KDX Todd is right, it takes a 4 stroke twice the displacement to produce approximately the same horsepower due to the inherent nature of the 4 stroke engine. You can't even compare a 250 4 stroke to a 250 2 stroke (heck, you can barely compare a 250 4 stroke and a 125 2 stroke - just two totally different bikes). If you like the hard hit of the power band over power that is spread throughout the spectrum of the gear, then go with the 2 stroke (or vice-versa). The 4 stroke will cost you more money than the equivalent 2 stroke though.

jOkA - Can you give us some insight on what you like about the '04 RM 250? Unfortunately I haven't ridden one, but have heard really good things.

Posted by: bigred20---------------------

Thanks for the clarification guys

Posted by: hug747---------------------

If they are all the same or pretty close; I'd go with the cr 250r. The visual exterior appearance looks more detailed than the others. For example: ignition and clutch covers are not plastic, renthal handlebars, front disc guard, good seat, good plastic, good top triple clamp, lightest weight in 250 class, and a motor proven it can win in the right hands.
The magazines give the motor a beating, but give everything other than the motor excellent ratings. If it has an electric feeling power delivery, (no abrupt hits in the powerband) that is a plus in my thinking. The YZ's have good motors, but before I spent alot of cash on one, I'd look for a
chance to ride an 04 CR250r
Good luck with whatever you choose. Beware of that 2-stroke 250 power and treat it with respect.

Posted by: _j0kA_---------------------

hey va, my bike is super thin, it handles amazingly (better then any other bike ive ridden, my 125/friends 125s/250s/250fs/etc), the suspension is great with some clicker adjustments, the motor is really really fast and loves to rev, it jets perfectly - it will run great all morning through afternoon and seems like it will run trhough most of the year on the same settings.. theres basically not enough i can say about how much i love this bike, i have some wicked bar dragging pics and stuff like that on my website, check it here

http://members.rogers.com/tojcic
let me know what you think, send me an email if you want toask more questions (found on my website)

Posted by: va_yzrider---------------------

Thanks jOkA, that's pretty much what I've heard from some other RM riders. I do like the ergonomics and the thin feel of the bike (noticed this when I sit on them in the showroom). I might have to try one out b/c I like for my bike to rev really high, luckily my YZ gets the job done there, but more would be nice.

Posted by: _j0kA_---------------------

the RM250 will knock the socks off your yz125 in any way shape or form, hell it will knock the socks off many other 250s

Posted by: bigred20---------------------

Well I went and saw them today. sat on them a lot. The only one I didn't sit on, was the RM 250 b/c they were out. the closest thing was a used 2001 rm250. but anywho, my thoughts: THe yz250 felt the best follwed really really closely by the honda and then the kawasaki. THe YZ was actually 5895, where the kawasaki was 5995. I went to the honda house and sat on the CR250. it felt eally good. that price was 6K out the door, but that included helmet, pants, jersey, and gloves, (all thor, but I don't know the quality of all that stuff).

Just thought I'd share my thoughts

Posted by: 04-yz-250---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by _j0kA_

the RM250 will knock the socks off your yz125 in any way shape or form, hell it will knock the socks off many other 250s

Kid, finish school, get a job, get married and have some children; that will impress me. Your Suzuki with it's cracked case from the factory and leaky shock's won't. In one post you ask for advise on your problem's and other post's we see these statement's. NO bike is perfect but quit putting your brand of bike ahead because it's NOT...

Posted by: _j0kA_---------------------

those are obviously defects that can happen to any bike, suzuki stepped to the plate and got me a new cylinder and worked that out with the dealership.. suzuki also agreed to cover my shock work, so ive got no worries with them..

you must feel good for going off on a kid, considering you probably have a job/wife/kids.. for one i have a job, ive finished school and am atheist so i will not get married.. i have no kids planned for the near future so theres nothing to worry about

Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by _j0kA_

you must feel good for going off on a kid, considering you probably have a job/wife/kids.. for one i have a job, ive finished school and am atheist so i will not get married.. i have no kids planned for the near future so theres nothing to worry about

I guess dirt bikin is your religion

Posted by: _j0kA_---------------------

.. then technically im happy married to an 04RM250 and 01RM125

Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

would that also make you a ploygamist

Posted by: _j0kA_---------------------

hahaha :D :D

Posted by: va_yzrider---------------------

Well, if nothing else, it's good to know that a 250 still produces more horsepower than a 125.

Posted by: showtime586---------------------

Let me offer you a differing opinion of my Yamaha 250F four stroke.
I came off of a 250 2-stroke. Before that, a 125 2-stroke.
The compression braking helps me go deeper into the corners than I ever could on my 2-stroke. The power delivery is very smooth, no hit, just constant acceleration. It jumps with very little effort. My 2-stroke has more vibration (in my hands and legs) and engine noise than my baby thumper has. Very few average 125 riders can keep the 2-stroke bike on the pipe. I couldn't so the 250f works much better for me. The bike is without a doubt the most enjoyable bike of the 12 that I have owned. The reason I also have a 2-stroke is because the 250f is not real competitive in the open classes that I race in.

Now, for the used bike issue. Some people might say to avoid bikes that were raced, but I have a different philosophy.
I drive a few hours, and spend a few bucks to race. I won't show up with a bike that is not 100% ready to go. In other words, I won't race junk.
If you go the "used" route, there are some things to look for to indicate possible abuse or "hard" use.
The first thing I look for is flat spots on the underside of the frame cradle. Flat spots indicate "cased" landings from jumps. I also look at the rest of the frame, the subframe and the swingarm for possible crash damage as well.

Posted by: MWEISSEN---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by showtime586

I would give some thought to a 250f too, unless you are hard core two stroke.

I'd second that, especially since you're pretty new to MX bikes. Also consider the Honda new CRF250R.

You'll find both really fun, a lot more forgiving than a 250MX bike, and also really good at MX or trail riding, whichever you happen to decide to do.

My son, whose ridden for years, prefers his '01 250F over his '03 CR250 because of the power delivery.

Posted by: bigred20---------------------

alright, I've been looking at the four stokes now. I have a quick question. The yamaha frame is more of a box type set up. THe kawi and the honda have a diagonal frame member that goes up to the fork of the bike. How do the two compare? I really like the looks and reviews I've been reading from the CR250F

Posted by: kdxtodd---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by showtime586

Let me offer you a differing opinion of my Yamaha 250F four stroke.
I came off of a 250 2-stroke. Before that, a 125 2-stroke.
The compression braking helps me go deeper into the corners than I ever could on my 2-stroke. The power delivery is very smooth, no hit, just constant acceleration. It jumps with very little effort. My 2-stroke has more vibration (in my hands and legs) and engine noise than my baby thumper has. Very few average 125 riders can keep the 2-stroke bike on the pipe. I couldn't so the 250f works much better for me. The bike is without a doubt the most enjoyable bike of the 12 that I have owned. The reason I also have a 2-stroke is because the 250f is not real competitive in the open classes that I race in.

Now, for the used bike issue. Some people might say to avoid bikes that were raced, but I have a different philosophy.
I drive a few hours, and spend a few bucks to race. I won't show up with a bike that is not 100% ready to go. In other words, I won't race junk.
If you go the "used" route, there are some things to look for to indicate possible abuse or "hard" use.
The first thing I look for is flat spots on the underside of the frame cradle. Flat spots indicate "cased" landings from jumps. I also look at the rest of the frame, the subframe and the swingarm for possible crash damage as well.

I have just come off a 250 2-stroke, and have ridden many 250efers. I felt that ridding the 250f on the track to be less work than a 125, but more work than a 250. You have to keep that 250f reved all the time(like a 125) to go fast. but on a 250, you have more power everywhere and its just way easier to go fast. Engine braking is overrated. The biggest complaint that my friends have that own 250fs is the engine braking. As for 125 riders who cant keep them on the pipe, those are the ones who go and buy 4-strokes. I have no problem keeping my buddies 02yz125(stock) on the pipe, and I wiegh 200lbs. and most people i know can keep em on the pipe, except cr125s

The 250 2-stroke will be much more versitile than a 250f, desert, track, trail riding, hillclimbing are all things that a 250 will do easly.

also, looking at things like frame wear and swingarm wear is all good, but won't show that the motor was abused. Buying a used 4-stroke you just have to take the guys word for it, or go and rebuild the engine yourself. Thats expensive
just my 2 cents

Posted by: Micahdawg---------------------

One big consideration for me is the maintenance that is required to keep a bike up. No one can argue that a 4 stroke is "easier" to work on than a 2 stroke, because quite simply, it is not. With a four stroke you have an entire valvetrain to keep in time and many extra moving components to worry about (valves, rockers, cams timing chain, etc...). It also seems to be the case that four strokes run hotter than 2 strokes. If you sit idle for too long you might find that a 250F or 450F will start puking coolant out of the overflow. Four stroke carbs are also more complex with more jets, hot choke and a cold choke. And they can be finicky to get restarted when warm.

Some of these problems might have been reduce with the new 250F's, but I think most of them need to be taken into consideration.

On the otherside of the spectrum, a 2 stroke will foul plugs quicker (especially if it's not properly jetted). It's a relatively minor issue to deal with though as plugs don't break the bank and don't require any skill to change out. But a two stroke engine won't last anywhere as long as a four stroke. They wear out quickly and need to be rebuilt fairly often in comparison. But again, thanks to the REALLY simple design, it's actually not that hard to rebuild yourself. Again, in comparison to the complexity of the four stroke.

I just wonder how long these 250F/450F's are gonna last engine wise. And how costly it will be to rebuild one with new valves, retainers, springs, valve grind, reground or aftermarket cams...specialty tools to degree the cams, timing alignment? It's gotta cost a fortune to really build one up either for performance or if you really toasted the engine. And that's not even getting into the bottom end.

I just don't see the big advantage. 250 two strokes these days offer all the power you could need for the trails and the track and usually a riders skill level will make the difference between the winner. The only way I would ever own a four stroke is if it was going to be temporary (keeping it 2 years max) and I got a killer deal on it. Otherwise I'm holding out for a 2004 RM250 and plan on keeping it for quite a while!!!!!!

Micah

Posted by: _j0kA_---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micahdawg

Otherwise I'm holding out for a 2004 RM250 and plan on keeping it for quite a while!!!!!!

bingo!

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