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Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

125 Moto #1:
1. Bubba Stewart
2. Stefan Roncada
3.Ryan Hughes
4. Mike Brown
5. Eric Sorby
6. Ivan Tedesco
7. Steve Lamson
8 Danny Smith
9. Chris Goeseler
10. Brian Hepler

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

Looks like RC is happy to be back He has them covered in moto 1`

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Any questions?

Posted by: Mxracer695---------------------

250 Moto #1
1- Ricky Carmichael
2- Kevin W Windham
3- Chad Reed
4- David Vuillemin
5- Sean D Hamblin
6- Jean Sebastian Roy
7- Clark Stiles
8- Heath D Voss
9- Nick Wey
10-Rusty Holland

Posted by: bh---------------------

I cant believe anyone expected KW to beat RC...

Posted by: Mxracer695---------------------

RC had like a 13 sec lead or somethin like that on KW

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by bh

I cant believe anyone expected KW to beat RC...

Well, it's certainly never happened before

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Bubba may not kill RC like everyone has been thinking. Ron Ron, not a threat to win the 250 class, has been giving him fits. Great race in the 2nd 125 moto!!!! I'm starting to like the frenchie!

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

125 Moto #2:
1. Bubba Stewart
2. Stefan Roncada
3. Brock Hepler
4. Mike Brown
5. Nate Ramsey
6. Ryan Mills
7. Ryan Morais
8. Kelly Smith
9. Chris Gosselaar
10. Broc Sellards

Posted by: bigpa---------------------

125
Bubba
ronronmx.com
Brownie

250
RC
DV?????
KW

Bus as usual except for the frenchmen!

Posted by: CJG---------------------

250 final results

1 RC
2 DV
3 CR

No Kdub today!

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Kdub was only half a lap down in moto 2.

Posted by: bigpa---------------------

Sorry, you're right

RC
DV??????
CR

Posted by: Mxracer695---------------------

250 Moto #

1 Ricky Carmichael
2 David Vuillemin
3 Chad Reed
4 Kevin W Windham
5 Damon W Huffman
6 Sean D Hamblin
7 Jean Sebastian Roy
8 Heath D Voss
9 Michael Byrne
10 Pierrick Paget

Posted by: Senior KX Rider---------------------

250moto2

1. Ricky Carmichael
2. David Vuillemin
3. Chad Reed
4. Kevin Windham
5. Damon Huffman
6. Sean Hamblin
7. J.S. Roy
8. Heath Voss
9. Michael Byrne
10. P. Paget

Posted by: SpectraSVT---------------------

Now we got to wait a whole week to actually see it...ARRRGGGHHH!

Posted by: TwinSpar---------------------

Da Boss is back!!!!

Posted by: scottsimpson---------------------

Way to go JSR

Posted by: TheGrinch---------------------

Well, Congrats to RC. He's come back strong. I thought KW might have had something for him first race back.

RC proved his race fitness has sufferred any by missing the SX series. I guess if his fitness is good then technically after getting his ACL fixed up, he should be even stronger.

At least Chad seemed to have made the gap a little smaller this time out.

Posted by: TheGrinch---------------------

Finally someone is giving Bubba a bit more of a challenge. Good on ya Roncada

What happened to Alessi? I thought this was meant to be his debut.

Posted by: HomeMadeSin---------------------

Way to go RC. And on a 450 to boot. Sheeeeeet. I don't know who to root for next year when he goes Yeller.....

Ya think K Dub had another mental fade in the 2nd?

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Alessi can't race until Millvile.

Humm.. 250 class; three of the top four on thumpers?

Posted by: rickyd---------------------

The 2nd Moto of 125 was GREAT!! WOW!!

I think Bubba's conditioning is what won the race for him, ROnRon kinda faded back towards the end, i was actually surprised he didn't stuff Bubba..
K-Dub will be back, i didnt get too see the 2nd moto of 250 (everybody wanted too leave) But hats off too CR..

Posted by: Thump---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Alessi can't race until Millvile.

Humm.. 250 class; three of the top four on thumpers?

Who was on the 2 stroke? I thought all of the Yami boys were riding the 450's?

Posted by: super rat---------------------

I think thump is right, they are all on those damn things.

You think we will see Bubba on one soon if he keeps getting a run for his money?

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

My bad, forgot about DV on the 450.

Posted by: CJG---------------------

Okie, you must have all kinds of money as much as you like those thumpers.

Like i've said before, bump those 250's up to 275's(still 170cc less than a 450) and see how many thumpers are out there. Thumpers cost more to buy and to maintain, a real winner for the consumers, huh? Why do you think they gave them such a size advantage? And when that wasn't working as well as they had hoped, they decided to get rid of leaded gas to give the $$$$$$$$$$thumpers a little extra edge. You'll be singing a different tune when the 900cc 8-stroke comes out.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Why do the 2-stroke guys keep wanting to compare cc's? The arguement isn't about which makes more HP/cc, it's about how it makes the power and where. Thumpers make power in a way that makes a wide variety of people happy, it's that simple. The rules allow them and the fastest guys on the plant are choosing to ride them. The slowest guys on the track are buying them as fast as they are made and the vast majority are happy with their purchase. So what you have is a bike that makes power that the fast guys, all the way down to the slowest riders like... THAT is a good engine, regardless of strokes or cc's.

Posted by: Ando400---------------------

C'mon guys give it up, the thumpers are here to stay. It's also conveniently forgotten that they weigh noticeably more than a 2 stroke, so not only are the fastest guys on the planet choosing a bike with a more useable power characterisic but (shock horror) they are at the same time choosing a heavier bike. Perhaps to achieve real equality they should allow the extra 25cc as suggested, along with a set of 5kg saddle bags!!

On a different note well to RC, although I was glad to see Reed put up a good performance.

Ando

Posted by: funktree---------------------

whats up with ferry, I thought he was back?

Posted by: Vic---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

So what you have is a bike that makes power that the fast guys, all the way down to the slowest riders like... THAT is a good engine, regardless of strokes or cc's.

Yup.

Posted by: super rat---------------------

Okie said, "The rules allow them and the fastest guys on the plant are choosing to ride them."

Are those the same rules that allow guys like Brown, Huges, Langston ect. to stay in the 125 class? LOL!

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

I get it, if you agree with one rule, you have to agree with them all? Your reaching rat boy.

Posted by: motoxpress---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ando400

so not only are the fastest guys on the planet choosing a bike with a more useable power characterisic but (shock horror) they are at the same time choosing a heavier bike. Ando

I doubt they are all CHOOSING to ride the thumpers. I am guessing their sponsors (especially RC) are having a say in this.

I'm all for it BTW

Posted by: CJG---------------------

Okie,

Quote:

Why do the 2-stroke guys keep wanting to compare cc's?

Because the only reason the $$$$$$$$thumpers are competitive is they were given a size advantage! And when that wasn't enough they had to screw with the fuel! The cards are stacked for a reason,(sing along) money money money money, moneyyyyy! Why don't 4-stroke guys want to talk about cc's? Do you honestly think those pros are on the bangers because they like the power delivery? Why do virtually no top GNCC riders ride the bangers(Lafferty switched back to a 2-stroke this year)? You'd think they would love that linear power band. Oh, wait, I know why, they didn't change the fuel requirements in GNCC's! Also, those guys need a bike that will start(Josh Grant's 1st moto was over when he lost a half a lap trying to refire his CRF).
I'm not going to dispute that they are good bikes, but the guy that won the 250's yesterday dominated on a 2-stroke last year.

Quote:

the fastest guys on the plant are choosing to ride them

- Yeah, Bubba kicked butt on that 250f yesterday!

For anyone that thinks I'm starting something scroll up to my initial post, there's no mention of 2 or 4 strokes.

Posted by: CJG---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

I get it, if you agree with one rule, you have to agree with them all? Your reaching rat boy.

So as long as the rule helps the 4-strokes it's a good rule, you're reaching okieboy.

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

someone needs the waaaahmbulance

Posted by: boogbeater---------------------

just reading the results where was millsaps I must have missed something..

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

Do you honestly think those pros are on the bangers because they like the power delivery?

So why are they on them? More conspiracy? Have the top guys in MX been replaced by aliens? (there's a reach for ya)

When the name of the classes are changed, will you still make the HP/CC argument? When there isn't a single 2-stroke in the top 20 of either class, will the discussion be over? When the factories produce their last 2-stroke, will you commit suicide?

Times they are a chaningin, get over it or continue doing this

Posted by: CJG---------------------

Okie,
There are three reasons we will all soon be riding four-strokes:
1) E
2) P
3) A

I wonder why noone wanted anything to do with four-strokes before the EPA stepped in and the AMA changed the rules?
Here are a few facts(as I personally see it). If you could, please go down this list and respond to each one individually, don't just give your usual glib remark:
1) Four-strokes are heavier and the only way to change this is to make the thumpers much less reliable or much more expensive.(Two-strokes can be made much lighter than they currently are allowed to be.)
2) Thumpers are difficult to start when hot. (Ask anyone who has ever stalled one in a race.)
3) Thumpers are more difficult and time-consuming to maintain.(Just change the oil if you want proof, I'm not even going to get into valves and cams.)
4) Thumpers are more expensive to maintain long-term.
5) Thumpers don't turn as well .(You can dispute this all you want, but you can't suspend the laws of physics. Heavier+higher CG=harder to turn, all else being equal.)
6) Thumpers are much louder which will ultimately work to the detriment of ALL dirt bikers.(Implement the AMA's own unenforced regulations at the next race and see how many thumpers pass the test. By the way, I acted responsibly and put a Q silencer on my 426 when I had it and lost lots of low-end power.)
7) Thumpers cost more up front.(They're more complicated, hence more expensive to produce. And I expect to see a sharp rise in purchase price when the smokers are eventually eliminated.)

The only reason to buy any bike over another one is because you like it better. I'm glad we have two-strokes and four-strokes now because everybody has more options. And I'm glad you like your thumper. But to come out and imply that thumpers are flat out better because pro's ride them, or because you prefer them, is simply wrong.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

The only reason people ride 4 strokes is they have a massive hp advantage-a 125 matches a 250f only at peak-everywhere else it doesnt.Same with a 250 vs 450.If they were better matched eg 200cc 4 stroke to 125 2 stroke it would be different.The extra weight of the 250f doesnt offset the power advantage.Theres no point discussing it as the 4 strokes have the rules to make them better than a 2 stroke-so we will all have to ride them if you want to compete-its as simple as that.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

I wonder why noone wanted anything to do with four-strokes before the EPA stepped in and the AMA changed the rules?

You mean that crappy 4-stroke technology runs better on crappy gas?

I didn't imply anything. Why are the top MX'ers riding them? Yes, yes, JBS is on a 2-stroke... he's also got a less talented rider on his rear fender these days. What of the other 90%? You implied (or I mis-read it) they don't have a choice, is that what you meant? Do you think the best (2-stroke) techs on the planet can't make a two stroke run well on unleaded gas?

Adjusting valves is a big deal? Oil changes? Humm, I don't spend a measurable amount of time difference maintaining my thumpers and my 2-strokes of years past. Instead of pouring oil into a gas can, I pour it into the cases

The costs? Since when is dirt biking of any kind not an expensive sport? If the small cost difference is enough to keep someone out of the sport, they probably shouldn't be in it in the first place.

Again, I didn't buy thumpers to save the planet, because the EPA wanted me too or any other reason than I enjoy riding them more than 2-strokes. Nobody forced me to do anything. Is your biggest issue is that you feel someone is going to force you to buy a 4-stroke?

Posted by: super rat---------------------

“My arms were pumped from the first lap to the last lap and I was only able to ride at about 75%, but thankfully it was enough to come back and win the opening round,” said an elated Ricky Carmichael just moments after his second moto victory. “It was great to win, but most importantly it was really fun to be back on the track racing again. After taking the entire Supercross season off, I have been waiting for this moment for months and I’m excited to be back.” The win also marked the first for Carmichael aboard a four-stroke.

I got that from the good guys over at transworld

Looks like seabiscuit is going to put a real thumping on the boys this summer once he gets up to 100%.

Posted by: SpectraSVT---------------------

I think whether anyone wants to admit it or not is because people wanna think what they got is the best out there. I have a 2 stroke therefore "I think their the best" type of thing. And when they don't get their way (i.e.win a race) then lets spout some rules that limit my choice's ability to beat your choice. I have a 2 stroke by the way. Its rider ability in the 250 class not bike choice. Whatever that rider feels more comfortable on is what he will do best on.

I was definitely surprised by RC's performance...leading the entire race. Crazy. I'm disappointed in KDub and mixed feelings about how Reed did. He may be closer but he is still stuck in 3rd like last year! And 3 way tie for second!!! starting out good. i just hope RC don't get away too quick.

Posted by: bigpa---------------------

Okie, I think the contention some have is that we'll all have to pay for more expensive machines in the future if we wanna be competitive. And that's only because some green men(and I'm not talking 'bout Kawasaki) dictated it that way.

Everybody's (manufacturers, consumers, etc) been coerced to focus on this technology(4 strokes) regardless of any proof that it's more efficient/cost effective.

Now about this part...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

The costs? Since when is dirt biking of any kind not an expensive sport? If the small cost difference is enough to keep someone out of the sport, they probably shouldn't be in it in the first place.

..you didn't really mean it, did ya?

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

..you didn't really mean it, did ya?

A little tounge in cheek there. Trust me, I can't afford any of it, lol.

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

so after all the hype of Allesi, i read that my fellow REM racer Josh Grant looked really impressive on his FactoryConnection CRF250- i think he lead and gapped the 1st moto but had a small getoff and couldnt start the damn bike (see various 4stroke threads for further discussion).

i do conceed though, i doubt he would have lead that field on a CR125 though, LOL

Posted by: jboomer---------------------

They were saying on the broadcast he was pulling away from Bubba (once he (JBS) broke through the pack into second place), but he ended up washing out and crashing shortly after that.

Posted by: SpectraSVT---------------------

Where did Josh grant come from? How old is he?

Posted by: Kawidude---------------------

It was funny because they interviewed Davey Coombs over the PA right before that race and as he was leaving the mic, he told the crowd to keep an eye on Josh Grant. And then the kid rockets to the lead but couldn't hold onto it. Could have been really interesting if he stayed upright.

Posted by: CJG---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

You mean that crappy 4-stroke technology runs better on crappy gas?

Actually, I was referring to the jump from 400-450cc more than the fuel rule. Although I personally believe that the new fuel rule definitely works against the two-strokes more than the thumpers, and I'm not the only one. To quote Pro Circuit team manager Dave Osterman, "If any team manager says that the new fuel rule didn't hurt the two-stroke, he's lying." Also, "Four-strokes already had an advantage and this just made it more unfair." And from RC, "I think four-strokes are the future of racing, especially with the AMA's new unleaded fuel rule." RC also says that he believes that in the future people will ride two-strokes at some tracks and four-strokes at others, and that he will definitely be riding a two-stroke in supercross next year.

Quote:

Is your biggest issue is that you feel someone is going to force you to buy a 4-stroke?

Yes, exactly.

Posted by: nephron---------------------

...then why was he definitely going to be riding a 4 stroke for SX this year when he got hurt?

Posted by: CJG---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nephron

...then why was he definitely going to be riding a 4 stroke for SX this year when he got hurt?

I don't know about that, could have something to do with HRC? But here's an excerpt from the July issue of MXRacer-
"MXr: So will you ride a two-stroke in supercross next year?
RC: Definitely. The nice thing about the factories these days is they all have both. You can have the option. I think in the future of supercross, riders may use a two-stroke at some tracks and a four-stroke at others."

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJG

RC also says that . . . he will definitely be riding a two-stroke in supercross next year.

'cuz Suzuki don't make a 450 4stroke . . . yet.

Posted by: CJG---------------------

XRpredator,

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJG

"I think in the FUTURE of supercross, riders may use a two-stroke at some tracks and a four-stroke at others."

Quote from RC himself, I added the emphasis on 'future'. I think RC may already be in on the "secret" that Suzuki will have a 450 next year.

He may even be one the few people who has actually ridden one.
RC on the four-stroke(v. two-stroke):"The handling can be a little disadvantageous in some situations, but the added power makes up for that."

Of course, brute power is much less important on tight, technical, SX-style tracks than it is outdoors. This is likely why most east-coast pro off-road riders continue to shy away from the thumpers in favor of their more "primitive" cousins, while(except for the 500cc pingers) thumpers rule the desert where power is king.

Posted by: Ando400---------------------

Thank goodness that I can finally buy a 4 stroke MX bike. All these years I've been forced to buy 2 strokes because everyone else thought they were the best...

"'cuz Suzuki don't make a 450 4stroke . . . yet."

Yes they do, it's been racing in Japan and the GP's for some time now. Admittedly not a production bike...yet.

Ando

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

let me rephrase, then (nitpickers)

Suzuki does not mass produce a 450 4 stroke motocross bike . . . yet

Posted by: nephron---------------------

CJG--I'm just bustin' some ballz, ya know. It's not that I'm for or against the thumpers, and it's not that I'm disinterested in this phenomenon--I'm just observing it from afar, because I honest to God believe we'll NEVER have to ride a thumper if we don't want to. Wait and see. Enough market pressure to keep a GOOD 2 stroke @ the gates, and it WILL happen. Simple enough. It may take a smaller niche company like ATK or REV to continue to develop them, but you'll never lose your right to braaaap.

Hell, consider that KTM has been making both for years and years, onlly recently really focusing on their MX bikes. Remember that they've been able to produce them side by side successfully, and that their future marketing goals will likely be no different. All hail the 250sx, that's getting better every year. So is their 450, which laid down the most dyno power this year. Good on 'em. Keep 'em coming.

And the thought that RC would EVEN require a 4 stroke....even in MX is ridiculous after what he diid last year and with what these factories can do to a crankcase-inducted motor.

Oh yeah--and I still haven't ridden a thumper or ridden with a thumper that could hold a candle to my old green broad. What RC really needs is an AF---bah-bye!

Posted by: CJG---------------------

nephron,
I have no hard feelings. I'm simply one of the guys who rode, owned, and lived with a thumper, and didn't like it. Believe it or not, I don't consider myself a thumper hater either. My issue is not with the thumpers themselves, it's with the people who can't see the other side of the coin. Whenever I see someone post a question about which bike to get and someone replies that you should only consider a four-stroke because two-strokes suck, that just rubs me the wrong way because I've been there myself. After a long layoff from riding I bought my thumper because of all of the four-stroke fever and it turned out to be a bad decision(for ME). By the time it was all said and done I had to take a huge loss and trade it in because nobody around here wanted to buy a two-year-old thumper. Even one that was meticulously(read: anally-I need help!)maintained.

Funny you should mention the 250SX because it will probably be the next MX bike I buy. But I wouldn't even completely rule out a thumper, they just have a long way to go on a couple of issues to make them worth consideration for me. Right now the four-strokes pluses just don't outweigh the minuses for an out of shape, over the hill PPR like myself. But I seem to be the exception rather than the rule on this one.

Posted by: Ando400---------------------

Speaking of the RMZ450, doesn't the AMA have some rule about factories being able to run a full factory prototype 4 stroke for a year, as Yamaha did with the YZM400?

Posted by: TheGrinch---------------------

I know it's old news, but I just saw the 125 races. The 2nd moto wih Roncada and JBS going head to head was awesome. Does anyone know what happened to Ron Ron in the last lap. He dissappeared from sight. I assume he must have bobbled somewhere.

Anyone know?

Posted by: jboomer---------------------

I think he mentioned something about just trying to ensure that he didn't do something stupid and being happy with his ride and finishing second...he just backed off. I believe it was the interview with him in RacerX that I saw that.

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