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its inevitable.....Bubba to the thumper....
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Posted by: bclapham---------------------

Some local guys saw Bubba testing on the thumper at Perris on Monday and at Cahuilla creek today.

Posted by: elf---------------------

He seems to be a 2 stroke die hard, but if he signs with a team like honda he would have to ride a 4 stroke eh? After smoking everyone at highpoint what other reason would he have to be testing the 4stroke?

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

southwick sand?

Posted by: elf---------------------

Ah yes. Maybe, guess we will find out this weekend.

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Southwick sand? My God, the fastest I've ever seen him go was at Southwick. He keeps it pinned and stays on top. Realistically, the 4 might be a bit of a liability in what I remember of Southwick's step-up, deep sand corners where James just chose really, really tight lines to stay on top of it all. Say bah-bye, 2 or 4--as it should, it makes no difference for those few that want to actually WIN the race, rather than focus on 'not allowing others' to have the 4 'advantage'.

I was thinking he'd be switching, too--until the High Point show, where he was as fast as RC on a 450 thumper. Makes no sense for him to change now, but what do I know.

Posted by: Reesknight---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nephron

Makes no sense for him to change now, but what do I know.

If he does I'm sure its $ related, depends on his contract. Maybe he gets a larger bonus to win on a 4-stroke.

Posted by: Thump---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nephron

Makes no sense for him to change now, but what do I know.

Unless he is faster on the thumper.... remember, RC was a die hard until he did some testing. After turning laps on his works 250 then on a bone stock 450 he found that his lap times were faster on the stock thumper.

These guys don't care about 2-stroke or 4-stroke, they just want to go faster and will ride whatever gets the job done best. If you think Bubba or RC would ride either bike because of corporate pressures or an assed bonus you're nuts. The corporate pressure is for them to win championships.

Posted by: steve125---------------------

I'll bet come SX time, the 250 pro's will all be switchin back to the 2 smoke! At least Reed, DV, RC and Bubba.

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

RC doesn't have a choice, silly

Posted by: steve125---------------------

Sure he will!! The RMZ 450 for 05.

Posted by: Reesknight---------------------

Guess I'm nuts cause I think the corporate pressure is to sell bikes!

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

and not sell certain bikes that they still make?

Posted by: Reesknight---------------------

Well no, they make several bikes but I don't think he can ride them all. My theory is, all the manufacturers are wanting to sell 4-strokes for whatever reason, so they give their pro riders incentives to ride them over the 2's. Bubba has proven he can win on the 2 easily, now they want him to show the 4 is as good or even better. Don't get me wrong, I think the 4's are great, but I'm just not one to buy into thinking they're better because someone who gets paid to endorse the bike he is riding says it is better or that the fastest riders on the planet are still the fastest on 4's. To me, its a business and its all about sales and profit.

Posted by: nikki---------------------

Bubba could win on an 85.

Since none of us really know what will take place, here is my "guess".......

Bubba will be on a 125 this weekend at Southwick. He will easily win both motos by 30 seconds or more, extending his points lead to at least 35-40 points over Brown and Hepler.

Then, the next weekend, Bubba will ride the KXF250 at Budds Creek. Remember when Bubba returned from his broken collarbone last year at Budds and had faster lap times than the entire 250 class (2:20.1 compared to RC's 20:20.5)? Bubba was a good 3-4 seconds faster than the rest of the 125cc class. Well, this year he will do the same, but on a 4-stroke. If he stalls it in a turn or throws a valve through the motor one moto, it won't matter much because he will have almost a 2 moto points lead by then. Might ruin a perfect season, but I think Bubba is up to the challenge.

That's my guess - Bubba on the 4-stroke at Budds Creek (Bubba's Creek?) setting the track on fire!

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

at the Glen Helen prequel event, Motoworld took 4 riders, 3 RMZ250s blew up in practise and they only bike they could field was a RM125! we have seen quite a few hotrodded rmz/kxf take a dive after not many hours either!

a freind of mine raced that event, he said the 250f that stood out powerwise in practise was the YZF

i wonder what procircuit have done to make them KXF go the distance with upto 40HP- i did remember ochster saying that when they made the unleaded switch at the SX, the 125s were just managing to finish one race because of detonation! wonder what bubbas cylinder head will look like after a moto in that sand?

Posted by: nephron---------------------

Bruce, by what Rich referred to on one occasion, it appears Pro Circuit has focused on cylinder head mods & huge valves, possibly some cam changes set up for minimal valvetrain trauma. Furthermore, the cylinder head was modified such that a majority of the combustion chamber were the valve reliefs themselves. If you added balancing to that equation, you'd have a hellaciously powerful motor with minimal change in reliability. The guys out there that are going to try to increase VE by raising compression ratio and valve lift are going to be tearing down a lot of broken motors.

On the offhand, Ty Davis had to go back to a 2 stroke 250 for WORCS and H&H simply because his 450F was only making it through 2 out of 3 races. It'll be interesting, and IMO sad, to see Destry on a 450F after coming off a 500 while Ty will be sticking with the 250. The tables are gonna turn.

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

i am sure PC has had to tear down their fair share of blown up thumper motors, nudge, nudge, wink wink!

heck even the stocker arent to reliable. but it sounds like PC made a good move getting that dude from toyota.

Posted by: dirt bike dave---------------------

FWIW, there was an interview with Hannah awhile back where he revealed that Yamaha gave him a huge bonus to drop back down to the 125cc class on a YZ. Yamaha's motivation was they had a warehouse full of unsold YZ125's, and knew the only way they were going to sell them was if Bob was winning on the bike.

Following that logic, Kawasaki should pay Bubba extra to stay on the KX125. I am sure it would become very difficult to sell the KX125 if Bubba (and everyone else on the team) switches to the KX250F.

I agree with Thump and think Bubba is the one who gets to make the final decision. But it would not surprise me if his race win bonus is much greater if the rides the 125.

Posted by: yota---------------------

James would be fast in the sand on anything, he grew up riding in it.

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Quote:

am sure PC has had to tear down their fair share of blown up thumper motors, nudge, nudge, wink wink!

Didn't Kawasaki have to do the same last year with 125 motors? Seems I recall Bubba nuking them as well.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

You dont get close to the ragged edge by not blowing them up-a perfect formula one engine is that it wins the race and blows across the finish line

Posted by: bclapham---------------------

ahh, who cares anyway. anyone with a brain in their head knows that the AMA nation production cup is lame, just a good place for all the riders that couldnt make it in the GPs to hang out.

Posted by: Thump---------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reesknight

My theory is, all the manufacturers are wanting to sell 4-strokes for whatever reason, so they give their pro riders incentives to ride them over the 2's.

The biggest incentive is to win a championship. You think Ricky or Bubba would ride a bike that they felt was inferior to their 2-Stroke? Obviously Bubba can win on the 125. Would RC be winning on the CR250? Think about it. KW is turning faster lap times consitantly that RC was last year on the same tracks and still loosing to him. RC is spinning laps 1-3 seconds faster than last year on his 250? Did his riding improve that much while he was rehabing?

Posted by: zcookie49---------------------

ronron probably shook his cage a little bit in the recent past, plus compiled with statements mentioned above about RC being faster on the Thumper; plus instances for example, like the entire yamaha team switching from 2strokes for supercross to 4 strokes for nationals, it seems to be a trend that most agree with.
IMO, the 4strokes seems to pull better for the stretched out national tracks and the 2 strokes seem to perform better for the tight cornered, technical supercross tracks. Thats not to say that talent cant win either in the right hands of the rider, case in point windham with his thumper with sx, and rc in past with his 2 smoker... just seems this way after the last sx and this years outdoors.
come on Budds Creek !!

Posted by: nephron---------------------

We're all forgetting O-Show. It's all rider. All. RC would still be beating K-Dub's ass on a 250. Bubba will go no faster on a 4 stroke. I just don't believe it. Think of it this way...every damn time these guys change manufacturers, they've suddenly gained 3 seconds a lap. The biggest offenders here have been Lusk & RC. Remember when RC said his SX times were 3 seconds faster than on his KX? You believe that? Do you believe now that he's SIX seconds a lap faster on his 450F? All I've got to say about that is Bulls.......t! No way. Hell, Lusk's so-called laptimes have improved 26 seconds over the last 4 years.

And where do these guys get their valid comparisons? Are they riding the same track in the same conditions, same topical conditions, no alterations, same temperature and barometric pressure on a day where they feel, physically, exactly the same? I think these so called comparisons are generated by the almightly $$$$ as well as newfound 'forced' loyalty.

I watched an SX race b/t MC & RC the other day (from 2000 or 2001), and they both looked faster than anyone out there now, except maybe Reed. How's that possible, providing my judgment at least levels out these laptimes, if they're oh so much faster on these new bikes?

If Lusk keeps this up, his laptimes in 2010 will .2sec. Should LaRocco be lapping the field on the first lap by now?

In the end, I think these pros are still subject to the same product schemes and advertisement, hype, etc.---if not moreso than we are, because they DO NOT want to lose a championship and will take any reputed advantage they can. The guys I think that are not affected by this phenomenon---LaRocco (obviously--what a stud), K-Dub--he honestly loves that bike and for HIM, he's done well on it. It fits his style, if I can be so bold....

and Bubba--no comment. Reed switched thinking it would provide an advantage, but it hasn't (in terms of results---now, those 15 sec laptime improvements are another story

Posted by: steve125---------------------

The 2 different bikes that won the last 125/250 nationals at HP couldn't be any more far apart in engine design and size. Yet out on the track their within 1 second of each other in lap times. Seems the rider plays a more important role here, at least at their level. RC rides the 4 stroke well and maybe the win came easier for him? I still feel he would have won on the 250.

Posted by: marcusgunby---------------------

I just think its down to level of work, on a 125 you go as fast as a 250f but you work harder, you cant do the same amount of work riding the 250f(compared to the 125) as they dont really respond to that technique.

Posted by: steve125---------------------

Marcus, just about everyone agrees that riding a 2 smoke gives one a higher heart-rate than riding the 4 stroke.

Think that may be,

because their more fun and exciting to ride???

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

No... just more work.

Posted by: steve125---------------------

It's the FUN!!!

Posted by: Okiewan---------------------

Less Work.

Posted by: XRpredator---------------------

tastes great

less filling

Posted by: zcookie49---------------------

Agreed that RC would have still whipped everyones ass on a 250 so far this year.
Maybe RC made the switch thru his superstitious ways, (ie-remember him wearing the orange gear nonstop couple of years back....)... maybe he feels that Kdub had a competitive edge on his thumper than his own skills.. so maybe RC feels that if he levels the playing field, he will have no problems cruising ahead of Kdub this year.
who knows.......
One thing that is certain, as mentioned on earlier posts, it is most definately the rider.....
.......
Is it me or does it seem recently that every race spoiler tails off into a 4stroke vs 2stroke debate????

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its inevitable.....Bubba to the thumper....

This is the text version of DirtRider.Net
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