Liability issues .

[c&b745XX]

Well first off , it's nice to have something to talk about. It's been awhile , lets start with someting on the serious side. I bought some land , built a home and most importantly , I built
a track . But a big concern off mine is liability issues of having some friends over to ride . I know that no reasonable person would sue me , but I guess their insurance company would . How does one handle this ??. I figure I'll start by making everyone sign a waver form that I will have to make up ..
Thanks.

 

[tnrider]

Tell them not to tell the insurance company where they were riding when they got injured. Otherwise, the insurance company will come after you to get payment for medical bills. I have seen it happen... even with a signed waiver -- they mean virtually nothing.

 

[jaction125]

+1

Tell them they were on some state supported land. Ins co's rarely will go after a state, me thinks....

 

[MX-727]

It's amazing how if they say they fell off a bicycle there is almost never a problem. Utter the word motorcycle and BAM!

It's a real tough call to let friends ride. Some examples:

1) Cool friend, you know he wouldn't blame you or hold you liable. Unfortunately, he dies in the accident. What will the wife do? Will she lie to the insurance company?

2) Same cool friend, hurt bad and misses a lot of work. Will he lie to the insurance company and his place of employment? Can he maintain that lie? Telling some friends at work what really happened might just get the ball rolling in the wrong direction for you.

3) A lot of it comes down to the injured person lying to protect you. Will they?


I let family ride, if they sue me, I'm moving in with them. ;) Even then I have big liabilty if the sister-in-law or brother-in-law can't accept that it wasn't my fault that my nieces or nephews hurt themselves.

I let close friends ride, but it's a tough call and I never stop worrying about what could happen. I usually don't ride much myself when other people are riding. I'm too busy keeping an eye on what people are doing.

I may be paranoid, but you've spent a lot of time acquiring the resources to get where you are and have what you have. Sharing is fun. Getting sued is not.

 

[gwcrim]

..... even with a signed waiver -- they mean virtually nothing.

Unfortunately, he's right.

 

[mx547]

if the accident is serious enough to warrant an ambulance ride, it will be difficult to lie about the location.

 

[c&b745XX]

Well , thanks for the replies . I was hoping I had more options . I know that I'm going to open up a large liability insurance policy to help just in case ..

 

[Thump]

See a local attorney for an hour consultation. Run you maybe $150 but could wind up saving you... well, a lot.

As for what was said about waivers meaning nothing.... I would ask the attorney. Obviously states view them differently because here in Texas if you are over the age of majority (17) and you sign a contract (ie waiver) it is a legally binding document. If the attorney says get a waiver, have the attorney draft it for you, another $500 or so and call it a day, safely.

 

[Okiewan]

The wavier thing will fail FOR SURE IF they can prove negligence... leave a dozer in harms way, you've got a problem. If you allow them to ride and don't take care to provide a safe environment for a dangerous sport, you are for SURE asking for trouble. As others have said, get with a lawyer and a) look at prior cases in your area/state and how they were ruled and b) draw up a waiver. And again, like others have said here, a rock-solid waiver may not even save you. The costs to defend yourself alone can be life changing. Maybe consider a LLC for the track, it's cheap to set-up and can offer personal protection (as I understand it).

 

[Okiewan]

You are welcome to use my waiver (for DirtWeek/DRN and Cooperland), just make sure to change the names and other specific info. Obviously I make no warranty! This document was written "for" the state of Oklahoma and it's laws/cases. Use at your own risk!!! You REALLY need to run this text by a lawyer before relying on it to protect you.

-------------------------------------------

Cooperland Raceway, Stillwater Oklahoma & DirtRider.Net / TeamDRN
RELEASE AND WAIVER OF LIABILITY
ASSUMPTION OF RISK AND INDEMNITY AGREEMENT

I have read and signed the following waiver and understand that off-road motorcycle riding is a dangerous sport. DirtRider.Net and Cooperland Raceway are not in anyway responsible for any damages to equipment and or injuries to myself or those I am responsible for. I will wear protective gear anytime I, or anyone I am responsible for, operates a motorcycle (including “pit bikes”). This includes as a minimum, a helmet and eye protection. I (and those I am responsible for) will limit speeds in the pits & camping area to 5 mph. I understand that I will be asked to leave the event should I elect not to follow these rules.

IN CONSIDERATION of being permitted to enter upon, be present at, or use the
RIDING TRAILS/TRACK on or around the Cooperland and surrounding property (herein after referred to as the "Premises"), for any and all purposes and activities including, without limitation, the operation, engagement, racing (competitive or otherwise), or maintenance of any motorized mode of transportation, including without limitation, ATV's and motorcycles, any and all other activity incidental thereto, including without limitation the passive, casual or active observance of any of the aforementioned purposes and activities (hereinafter collectively referred to as the "Activities"), the undersigned, on behalf of the undersigned, the undersigned's personal representatives, heirs, next of kin, and any and all other persons using the premises for the Activities as a guest of the undersigned (hereinafter collectively referred to as the "Undersigned"):

1. Acknowledges, agrees and represents that immediately upon entering the Premises the Undersigned shall and shall continuously thereafter, inspect every area of the Premises which the Undersigned enters, and the Undersigned further agrees and warrants that, if at any time, the undersigned is in or about any part of the Premises and feels anything to be unsafe, the Undersigned will immediately advise a representative, employee or agent of the owner of the
Premises of such and if necessary will leave the Premises and/or refuse to participate in the Activities.

2. Hereby releases, waives, discharges and covenants not to sue the owner of the Premises, DirtRider.Net / TeamDRN and principals thereof, any individual engaging in the Activities, rescue personnel, and the Premises inspectors, surveyors, underwriters, consultants and others who give recommendations, directions or instructions or engage in risk evaluation or loss control activities regarding the Premises, and each of them, their directors, officers, agents
and employees (hereinafter referred to as "Releasees"), from all liability to the Undersigned for any and all loss or damage and any claim or demands therefore on account of injury to the person or property or resulting in death of the Undersigned arising out of or related to the use of the Premises for the Activities, whether caused by the negligence of the Releasees or otherwise.

3. Hereby agrees to indemnify and save and hold harmless the Releasees and each of them from any loss, liability, damage or cost they may incur arising out of or related to the use of the Premises for the Activities whether caused by the negligence of the Releasees or otherwise.

4. Hereby assumes full responsibility for any risk of bodily injury, death or property damage arising out of or related to the use of the Premises for the Activities whether caused by the negligence of Releasees or otherwise.

5. Hereby acknowledge that the Activities are very dangerous and involve the risk of serious injury and/or death and/or property damage. The Undersigned, also expressly acknowledges that injuries received may be compounded or increased by negligent rescue operations or procedures of the Releasees.

6. Hereby agrees that this Release and Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnity Agreement extends to all acts of negligence by the Releasees, including negligent rescue operations and is intended to be as broad and inclusive as is permitted by law and that if any portion thereof is held invalid, it is agreed that the balance shall, notwithstanding, continue in full legal force and effect.

I have read this Release and Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnity Agreement, fully understand its terms, understand that I have given up substantial rights by signing it, and have signed it freely and voluntarily and without inducement, assurance or guarantee being made to me and intend my signature to be a complete, continuing and unconditional release of all
liability to the greatest extent allowed by law.



--------------------------

(rider signs and dates)

 

[c&b745XX]

Thump , I hope a waiver is indeed legally binding in Mich. and I need to get in contact with an attorney that has some experience on this subject . Okie , an LLC is a most exellent idea ,I'll run it by said attorney . I may just use your waiver form ( with a few changes off course ) ,at least for the time being . Since I have a few friends stopping by "this" weekend . I hope to have much to talk about in the future , hopefully good !.
May the force be with me , and a little luck . Thanks all again !!!..

 

[Okiewan]

It doesn't cost much at all to get the LLC done, def. do it.

 

[bleeb]

Not only do I have my brother and friends over to ride, my property is part of an "unofficial" local trail network where I get snowmobilers, quadders and bikers passing through. I've seen some sleds blast thru one field at sick speeds....it's flat and almost 1/4 mile long. Iffen someone smacks into my tractor or truck on the trails or in the fields I'll probably get sued even if they are "tresspassing". I don't want to kick everyone off the trails, because I understand the difficulty in finding riding areas up here in the Adirondacks, and that would cut them off from private lands that they are allowed to ride on. I also want to use those trails off my property too. So I am setting up a farming business for tax purposes, and it'll work for liability purposes as well. Until then I have a several million dollar liability policy, which doesn't cost as much as you would think.

 

[Papakeith]

Waivers are worthless in my state. What it boils down to is you can't sign away your rights. It's even easier to nullify a childs waiver. Who signed it? The child? Underage and can't legally enter into a binding contract. The parent? A parent can't sign away the childs rights. In otherwords, you are left holding the legal bag.
Generally, the problem isn't the people who get injured. The problem is in the subrogation department at the insureds insurance company. Once they find out where the injury took place, they will go after you to recover costs. Bet on it.

 

[Okiewan]

What it boils down to is you can't sign away your rights.

... and you can't take responsibility for yourself or your children.

Gotta love lawyers.

I LOVE Texas.

 

[ML536]

Speaking with a lawyer in your state is the best thing you could do for yourself. The laws in each state are somewhat different.

As noted above, your main concern is the injured rider's insurance company filing a subrogation case to try to recover their payments to their insured. Your injured friend has no say in whether or not the insurance company does so, and MUST assist the insurance company in coming after you. That is a standard clause in any insurance contract.

Get a waiver signed. They are often enforceable. As noted above, there will be instances were they could be challenged, like if you had some act of negligence that wasn't encompassed in the waiver, such as unexpectedly leaving a bulldozer on the track. A child under 18 cannot sign an enforceable waiver, because they are too young to legally contract. For them, you need to have their parents sign. But you most certainly can sign away your rights.

The other advantage of the waiver is that it will add another wrinkle when the insurance company's subrogation department is looking at the case and deciding whether to bring a subrogation action against you. Anything that will decrease the likelihood of their recovery will also decrease the likelihood that you will be sued.

The LLC is not a bad idea, but probably wont provide much protection. While corporations offer limited liability up to the value of their assets, that wont mean much because you could be sued in your individual capacity for some alleged act of independent negligence.

Some states have recreational use of land acts. The purpose of these lands is to limit your liability for opening your land for recreational purposes to the public. Each state's law is different, but generally a person is protected for unimproved land when you don't charge admission. The problem is what is "unimproved" land? Trails are probably unimproved. Tracks built by machine may or may not. You need to see how your state's law (if it has one) is interpreted, and will require a review of your state's precedent. This requires a lawyer.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[c&b745XX]

This is getting very interesting , and I will let you'all know what I find out as I progress with this issue .

"I just want to live alittle before my 45yr. old self die's......"
Thanks .. I'll send some pic's of my track soon . I just wish my old gallery wasn't wiped out .Not a Copperland , but it will work .

 

[mtk]

I don't know about RI, but liability waivers WILL hold up in Texas as WERA, the motorcycle roadracing organization, uses them and they race in Texas. If you want an example of their waiver, go to www.wera.com and look for one of the registration forms on their page. I compared it to others I've seen and they all seem to use about the same wording in them.

As was said, it may not be totally bulletproof, but it does help blow holes in the dirtbag ambulance-chasers case.

 

[Okiewan]

Judge: You were hurt doing something you knew was dangerous?
Whiner: Yes
Judge: And you want someone else to pay for your injury?.
Whiner: Yes.
Judge: Bye.

God Bless Texas.

 

[Danman]

Our club had some issues with the Lawyer of the land owner we leased land from. We found out there is a bill in Texas that is designed to protect land owners. Not sure of the bill's number, but its intended purpose was to protect land owners who let "recrational" activites on their land. They were defined as hunting and such. It did specificaly mention ORVs, but it was defined so that it did not include motorcycles. This was a big problem for us. The defination was recently changed in state law to support motorcycles. Its a step in the right direction for us Texas.

It might be a large state, but most of the land is privately held. Its hard to find good areas. We get insurance for any event and everybody in the gate signs a wavier. If you have children you sign for them. We have a waiver for childern. All club members also sign a waiver when joining as well as sign in when you enter the lease.