Ruptured Disc Surgery

[madmatt]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on here in a while, but two weeks ago I had surgery to remove part of a disc in my back that had ruptured into my spinal cord. They had to go in and physically move all of my nerves back to where they were and sew them into place.

Turns out, the disc had probably been ruptured for about a year and a half and I had been riding motorcross and hauling hay and lifting weights the whole time. The doctor told me that I could have been paralyzed pretty easily. He also told me it would be a good idea to never ride again. That is pretty hard for me, since I am 21 years old and I now have two discs in my lower back that as the doctor says "look in the MRI about like a 45 year old's."

I was wondering what advice yall could give me. It really bothers me that I might have to give up something that I am so passioniate about. Anyway, just thought I would see what you all had to say!

 

[madmatt]

Come on guys! I know yall have something!

 

[muddobber]

I will at least tell you my experience, but please listen to somebody in the medical profession first. At 21 you do have a lot of life in front of you. 5 years ago I had a disc that was herniated in 3 places. Had probably had part of this problem for at least 10 years, just when it really went, it went and I was done. Had surgery and got along great, as a matter of fact I raced an Enduro in Southern Ohio 2 weeks after surgery. The Surgeon told me there was a 10% chance of that same disc rupturing again, but it could just as easily rupture sitting in a chair as riding a motorcycle. But every person is different and your nerve damage may have been worse. I have also noticed over the years a difference in the Medical profession of how they view injuries and sports. A good Sports Clinic is not a bad place to go and get a second opinion if you did not have surgery at one. Take it easy for a while and listen to your body and a Doctor. Good Luck.

 

[madmatt]

Thanks muddobber, I really appreciate it. The surgeon that I went to was one of the best that does lots of sports related injuries. My best friend referred me to him because he had the same thing done last summer. My friend went back to playing college football the fall after and seems to be doing fine. I am glad to hear that you are doing better and were able to return to racing, I just hope that I can too!

I think that your idea of getting a second opinion would be a bad idea. Do you have any pains and aches that have seemed to increase as you age? Or any after your ride? What I am mainly worried about is not hurting my spine any further. Well, thanks for your help!

Madmatt

 

[lawman]

i have a degenerated disc at L4-L5. it was diagnosed when i was 32, i'm now 43. i was told i'd never run again, so i trained up & won 2d in my age group in a 5k & finished a 1/2 marathon (easily); was told i'd never ride a bicycle again so i trained up & won trophies in road races. then i got back into dirt biking & it hurts my back less than running & road biking. i'm careful to do my exercises every day & careful lifting, but that's about it. the thing that hurts it the worst, believe it or not, is standing still for an extended period. a girl in my club just had a fusion at the same location, now she is back riding & racing (& she's pretty good). i'd get another opinion.

 

[MilkJuGGz]

Madmatt,

I'm in similar shoes as you are. I'm 20, and I have severely herniated disks at L4 and L5. These were the result of maxing out on power cleans in weight lifting class... in high school, when I was 16. I know what you're going through, and my God if I could have one thing in my life, it would be the absence of pain.

Listen to your doctor and do what he recommends for the meantime. This is your priority in your life, and you need to make sure it gets better at ANY cost, even if that means not riding for a while. Get better so that you can train hard and ride again another day, perhaps in months, without worrying about reinjuring yourself.

The way I look at it... you're 21 and you have a lot of riding left to do in your life. You need to get better now so that you can still whoop the hell out of young guys when you're 60. If you don't pay attention now, then maybe motorcycles will only be a dream later on in life. Get well now, and ride later. And just like Lawman said, to hell with the naysayers and shove it back at them with first place trophies.

Since I just learned that my injury has gotten so severe, it's in my best interests to pursue a lawsuit against the district on terms of neglect by the weightlifting instructor. I never wanted this to happen, but I'm forced to secure my medical financial future because my dad's insurace plan will be dropping me. Physical therapy is out of the question due to the severity, so I need to now seek specialists. I'll probably have to say goodbye to riding for a while, but I will be back to race.

~JuGGz

You and me Madmatt, we're going to whoop our injuries!

 

[madmatt]

Thanks to both of you for all of the help. I just got back from my neurosurgeon appointment yesterday and he said that things were looking good. He said that I just needed to lay off all really physical stuff for about a year so that I can heal to the fullest. Milk- I really think that the beginning of my degeneration on my disks started in high school powerlifting. I hurt it a few times, and then it has gotten worse ever since.

We can over come this, let me know how things go and I will keep yall informed of my progress as well. This has been a life altering experience for me and I just hope that everything works out.

 

[sfc crash]

blah blah blah..i have 3 ruptured/herniated disks. one bad enough for surgery. i was in a wheel chair for 2 weeks after the initial injury..more blah blah blah, l5s1 was the one they cut, it had totaly encompassed my nerve colum by the time they cut on me. i saw the MRI, it was wild. i was at DW 02 riding 2 weeks later. any probs, go to www.spineonline.com and tell 'em crash sent ya. now rub some dirt on it and drive on!

 

[flynbryan]

Heres to ya Milk......remeber anything is possible with enough heart, drive, and determination. I feel for ya with the whole legal side of your injury. Good luck again and if anything good comes out of this situation let us know.

 

[MilkJuGGz]

Thanks to everyone for the support. It really does mean a lot to hear what y'all've said. Wow that was a hell of a contraction.

Matt, some of the things are still hitting me about how an injury like this "changes your life." Running was one of my passions and then I realized yesterday that I probably can't do this like I used to for quite a while. Also weight lifting... I'm going to miss that. Hopefully we'll be strong enough again that we won't lose too much definition :-)

I went in the other day for stereoid shots. The surgery staff gave me the strangest look when I told them I liked the procedure. I guess getting stuck deep into the spine with a load of huge needles isn't appealing to some! The tranquilizers must have been what made it seem like a party. Anyways, my back already feels much better and I'm amazed. Still need to take it easy though as only the pain is masked and not the injury.

As far as the long run goes I'm optimistic. By the time we're into mid life, I'm sure that the technology and development of artificial disks will yield something very usable. They've already had decent success with the metal replacement disks, but perhaps in the future there will be something developed that is more like the natural disk. Sounds great? It's something to look forward to just in case. Perhaps we'll heal well enough that we'll forget about replacement disks.

Keep us updated on how you're progressing after the surgery. Also, what kinds of things have you been doing to rest? I've made it a goal to lay down as much as possible while at home. This should help the disk heal. Blah, feels soooo lazy I don't like it =\

~George

 

[txvintage]

Madmatt, in Plano there is a Dr. Shellakov (sp) who is one of the original founders of the Texas Back Institute, although he is out on his own now.  He is a real arrogant jerk, but an excellent surgeon.

He performs a proceedure known as "full cage fusion" where two titanium slugs are inserted in your spine to stabilize discs that are basically gone.

Other Dr.s perform the proceedure as well, but he is one of the pioneers and has done thousands.  My life has been for ever changed for the better since he repaired mine at L5-S1 in 1998.  Prior, I had been medically discharged after 10 years of Naval service and I hadn't been able to lift my daughter since she was three and born in 1990.

It's a real biotch of a proceedure involving a spinal, hip, and abdominal cut, but it is oh so worth it.  Recovery time is 6-12 months, but being in your early 20's has to be an advantage.  This guy has pro and olympic level athletes who are still competing. 

Now if someone could just come up with a magic bullet for my knee and shoulder.......:think:

 

 

[u8dirt]

I am going through the same thing right now! About three mo. ago I hurt my back at work liffting. Went to their doctors, and after an x-ray and three weeks of working with restrictions, they said I was fine and go back to work as normal. Well about two weeks after, I started getting the most grueling pain down my left leg and then my toes went completely numb!Went to my own doc and had mri, L4 and L5 discs are herniated.And the one is pushing on the sciatic nerve.

 Going through hell with pain right now, and the freakin' workers comp. people right now while they figure out what they are going to do now! Told them maybe if they would have did the right tests to begin with, I nor they would have had to go through this!My doctor  said the only way now was surgury, the shots wouldn't work.And workers comp. is going get a few more opinions. In the mean time I get to wait!                       

 

[lawman]

yes, there are some interesting back therapies on the horizon. there are several new cage products that just came on the market or are about to. soon the iliac (hip) part of the fusion operation won't be necessary, they won't need the donor bone. before long, carbon fiber replacement discs will be no big deal (remember john penton, that great american who is responsible for that triumph of human ingenuity known as the ktm dirt bike? he has a set of carbon discs in his back). the companies are still dealing with the r & d & approvals & ramping up production, marketing, etc. (how do i know? my town happens to be the headquarters for some of these companies, & they are constantly suing each other, so we "poor country lawyers" get to learn all about it every so often). so son't despair! back trouble happens sooner or later to every creature that happens to walk upright. it's a shock when it happens to you, but better treatments are on the horizon.

 

[eibellk]

When I was 24, I herniated the disks between C5 & C6 in a non-riding incedent). Never did I miss a race due to my neck, and I am now 37. Two years ago, I twisted my pelvis (non-riding incedent), pinching the nerve at the L5. This immobilized me for a week, but didn't keep me from racing 30 days later. I have a laundry list of other injuries that will plague me for the rest of my life - most are motorcycle related.

Here is the point. You have to decide if the hazard is worth the risk. At 21, you have your whole life ahead of you and you can live a full and very happy life without dirt bikes. There are plenty of "hobbies" that are less stressful to the body and are just as enjoyable, but ultimately the choice is yours. You will have to live with your choice.

I chose dirt bikes.

Kurt.

 

[madmatt]

Thanks a whole lot for all of your input, I appreciate all of it. It is now about 4 1/2 weeks after the date of my surgery, and I feel pretty good. I started going back to college classes a week and a half after the surgery and that was pretty hard. It starts hurting after about 20 minutes worth of sitting. It has slowly gotten better though, I can sit a little longer now. I am also back at work, which is good because I walk across campus all day, and my doctor said that walking was the best thing you can do for your recovering back for the first 8 weeks.

Milk- Most of the things that I have been doing is, like you, just trying to lay down as much as possible during the day. I know, I feel like a lazy A$$ just laying around when I am home. I am used to running and being athletic all the time, but I am optimistic because I know that if I take care of myself now, that I will be able to do it again. As far as excercising and stretching, I am doing some halfway crunches to strengthing my abs, and I am doing some minor stretching. I also walk about 2 miles a day at the fastest pace I can without jogging. All of this is what the doctor told me to do. You might try some of it, but he said that if it starts getting sore, than that is a good sign that you are over-doing it. I still have some pain, but it is mostly just aching because my muscles where the incision is are weakened I think.

u8dirt- GET THE SURGURY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I was going to wait until my spring break to get it done and go skiing over christmas instead, but my doctor told me that if it herniated any further, than it could and would cause permanent nerve damage. That would not be cool, cause I really enjoy being able to WALK to class instead of WHEEL myself!

Eibellk- My doctor told me not to race anymore, seeing that I have about 50% of two disks left when at my age I am supposed to have 100%. I have decided to give myself 8-10 months and then just ride for fun. That is going to be hard because I am a really competitive person, but I think that being able to hold my children when I am 35 means more to me than whipping some peoples butts on the MX track. I am still going to ride, but maybe just not beat myself up so much doing it. You know, kinda lower the intensity of it. I can't see myself just getting out of the sport right now, I love it too much.

Thanks tx and lawman, some of those things I didn't know about, I will have to look into them!

Madmatt

 

[eibellk]

Just a note on dealing with the problem. I found that regular stretching (religously) of myback and neck muscles along with regular exercise (riding) helped me most. After the first incedent, I was told to "lay around" and that only compounded the problem later on. I was put into physical therapy for over a year to build the muscles in my back and stomach to support myself. Some of those exercises I continue to this day to ensure I remain in top condition. Additionally, I race off-road and try to avoid those big jumps that can so easily remove you from the gene pool. (Learned that lesson the hard way from failing a triple at Loretta Lynn's)

Kurt.

 

[nephron]

Alright, I try to stay out of here.

Look, Sarge is absolutely right, and very eloquent to boot. ;)

There was a large study approximately 8 years ago that looked at the sensitivity, specificity and positive predictive value of MRI in diagnosing and treating disc disease. What they found was that about 30-40% of NORMAL HEALTHY 18 YEAR OLD VOLUNTEERS WITH NO BACK PAIN OR NEUROLOGIC SYMPTOMS WHATSOEVER HAD MULTIPLE HUGE HERNIATED DISCS WITH NERVE IMPINGEMENT.

Don't ever forget that. The other thing you need not forget, is that if the lesion is below L1, where the conus medullaris of the cord is (end of the spinal cord), nothing serious in terms of paresis can occur, because nothing's below that but nerve root. Sure, if you have complete dislocation of L3/4 and anterolisthesis of L3 on L4 and you crush all you roots, you'll lose bowel and bladder like Sarge does every day while typing :moon: , but you've got to be in a car wreck at 90 or something like being crushed between a tractor and 3 point hitch (like me, at age 17, with (listen up here, cuz my back is NORMAL now) bilateral laminar fractures and spondylolisthesis of L4/5) before anything like that will happen.

Basic tenets of back pain:

1. Everyone has it.
2. It's rarely serious.
3. Grin and bare it.

I played high school football 6 weeks after my ordeal. You, my friend, can go ride TODAY!!!!! :thumb:

 

[nephron]

Oh, one more salient point. In Britain, disc herniation is treated conservatively (NO SURGERY--even with impingement, neurologic dysfunction or motor loss)--and their outcomes are BETTER than in the US.

Why? Because back surgery itself causes scarring and chronic pain, particularly at the level of foraminal ostia/zygapophysial joints. If you just let a herniated disc be, usually with steroids and physical therapy, it will "autodessicate" and shrink back to the point of causing minimal symptoms.

But hey, what do I know? Just an unbiased doc with no financial interest in doing back surgeries.... :laugh:

 

[MilkJuGGz]

Nephron, what you've said is definitely some of the best stuff I've heard someone say in a long time.

I still don't understand something though. If I keep up with the active lifestyle I've had going on (working out, bicycling, working, motorcycles) will they not autodessicate? That's what I'm trying to find out. I don't want to beat the rest of the pulp out of my disks between L3-L4-L5, if my active lifestyle is what's making it worse. I don't see how the disk can shrink back if it's constantly being flexed and compressed. Please explain this to me? Hold on lemme see if you're on my insurance first :-)

~George

 

[nephron]

I seemed someone flippant there, so let me qualify my statements whilst answering your last questions the best I can. The confusion regarding what to do immediately after a back injury is fairly common. In the old days, conservative therapy meant BED REST. Now, they're not doing that anymore, as apparently bedrest increases time to meaningful recovery as compared to "semi" conservative measures. Basically, what's recommended now is what you can find in any Barnes & Noble bookstore: a good "care of the low back" type book written by medical personnel of some type. Your doc, and certainly your Orthopedist or Physical Therapist will have info. You might even find all the info on the Internet for all I know. Sure, you don't want to go out and pound the crap out of your back with repetetive "blows" to your spinal column, but there are exercises that are designed to stretch/relax the paraspinous muscles, stretch/relax zygapoph lig's, and create strength in the abdominal muscles. The last part being most important, as now you're going to learn how to support yourself with abdominal muscles instead of your lumbar vertebral column. It took me roughly 2 weeks to almost fully recover from my injury and you could probably be well-advised to perform gradually increasingly intense physical therapy and start riding anytime you feel comfortable about it again. As it is now, my L/S is whacked on films, but I rarely have backpain. Cased a big double hard enough to break my talus in 2 and dislocate it, but never had backpain. :laugh: