AUTOCLUTCH: Opinion on the hand operated rear brake

[skipro3]

I didn't want to hijack another thread on the auto clutch so I thought I would start fresh. Of those riders with the hand operated rear brake modification, how do you like it and especially, how long to get used to it? I have one but not installed yet. I have a 90+ mile enduro next weekend and I'm concerned that I won't have the muscle memory to use the lever as a brake without crashing a couple times to drive the training home. I've been using the auto clutch for about 4 or 5 rides now and it is rare, (maybe once during the ride) that I grab for the phantom clutch lever.
I'm thinking of holding off installing it until after the next two races when I will have some time to practice with it first.
Also, how much pressure do you use to brake hard. I'm thinking I would like a shorty lever for the thing, like the front brake. This lever is full length and I'm hoping I can operate it with two fingers and still have effective braking power and control.
Any experiances you can provide will be appreciated.
Thanks!!!!

 

[moridin]

SK:

I have the full setup on my KTM (my RFS, not my new 200 2S). First - the hand brake is a really nice setup and I cannot imagine why you cannot order bikes in this trim.

Anyway - I know exactly what you mean and I totally understand your concern. My first enduro after the autoclutch was installed was great - but towards the end when I was exhausted - I found myself instinctivly reaching for that missing lever.

Cure that before you get that brake lever.

Once you have the brake lever and are comfy with it - you can take off your foot lever if you like - it is that good.

 

[skipro3]

The hand operated rear brake control I have replaces the foot brake lever, so when I change it out, the foot lever will be disconnected and removed. I am comfortable with the auto clutch. It was so easy to stop thinking about a manual clutch. Probably because I'm lazy to begin with and didn't use the clutch that often anyway, just when stopping, starting and the occasional hill that required a two finger slip to keep moving forward.
Is the hand rear brake control as easy to become familiar with as the auto clutch? I'm mainly concerned that I will unconciensly stab for the foot lever and end up being too late to grab the hand lever by the time my brain realizes what I need to do.

 

[shr00m]

autoclutch smotoclutch

 

[KAY DEE EXER]

autoclutch smotoclutch

Get a life !!! :nener: :nener: :)

 

[moridin]

I cant really answer that as I ride my MTB allot and of course have a good feel for hand brakes.

I say go for it. Once the habbit is cured - you will be stoked.

FWIW - is there another option than dumping the rear pedal? You would think they could tie in and share the line.

 

[1tontj]

My first day riding it, I was reaching for the foot brake that wasn't there. By the end of the first day - no more.

Rear brake slides are EASILY accomplished with two fingers on the brake handle. Makes right hand brake slides MUCH easier and more consistent.

Now that I am used to the hand brake, and auto clutch, trying buddies bikes with a standard setup feels bad. Keep clutching when I want to slow down 8(

So I say if you have a practice day before your race, then go for it. But I would not add it on the day of your race, you might be slow when you reach for the foot brake that isn't ;)

HTH,
Phil

 

[skipro3]

That's my thinking too Phil. I'll hold off until I can get a day of practice in and not have an event day as my first day of riding with the hand brake. It does help! Thanks!
I've heard of a perportioning valve that allows both the hand and foot control for the rear brake but like I've heard here, once you go with the hand brake, the foot lever won't be used much, so I'll forego that option. I am going to keep the rear brake components so that I can move the hand brake to my next bike if I ever decide to sell the KDX.
Great feed back. Thanks again!

 

[White_Knuckles]

Funny you mention "muscle memory". I was injured a couple years back and switched to a sport quad shipped with a left hand rear brake and autoclutch. Don't beat me up for havin' a quad, I'm still out there riding and there is no other option. My son has a KDX200.

After 20+ years riding with two years on the quad l never use the left lever it's still right foot. The lever gets use on a hill or loading but have to make an effort to use it on the trail. The brain telegraphs it's the clutch and doesn't want to rewire the command to pull for skid.

The autoclutch is great, never even thought about it. I'm sure pulling the rear brake pedal would force a change but as long as it's there I'm gonna stomp on it.

 

[Smit-Dog]

Wasn't one of the reasons of going to the auto clutch to get rid of having to use that lever on the left side in the first place?

I can't speak from experience using the left lever for the rear brake, but I am in much more control with both hands firmly on the handlebars at all times. My thought is that you'll be replacing arm pump and fatigue from clutching, with arm pump and fatigue from brake sliding. Personally, I've never gotten fatigued from excessive brake sliding, and I do 90% of my braking exclusively with the rear tire.

Yes, it's a new option.... but does it make it a better option? Just some food for thought, as not everyone likes the same setup.

 

[skipro3]

Probably due to the crappy rear tire I have on now, but it seems that if I even think about using the rear brake on down hill slippery stuff, it locks up and tries to pass the front tire. So I don't use it on those occasions. I keep 90% of downhill braking on my front brake. The rear brake works fine on rock and dry conditions though.
It is my hope the hand operated rear brake will assist me in the following:
1. On hills I fail to climb and engine quits, (meaning I crashed on the hill climb), and outfitted with an auto clutch, the only thing holding me on the hill is my front brake. There is no engine compression to hold me on the hill like a regular clutch operated bike. Having both front and rear hand brakes will help me get the bike situated while still having both feet able to touch the ground.
2. Brake sliding on right hand turns where I would like to stick my foot down would now be possible. Tight switchbacks are my focus here.
3. Adjustment of the rear brake control to be operated wtih two fingers like my front brake may now be possible. Just the thought of being in as precise control of my rear brake as I am with the front brake is very appealing.

As Smit-Dog points out though, arm pump is a concideration. However, I've never experianced arm pump on my left arm as I am a left hander and much stronger on that side. My archery training and bow hunting has also aided in developing some strengh in that arm as well. I do experiance arm pump in my right, throttle side though. Usually within the first 30 minutes of riding, then it goes away for the next couple of hours. Riding longer and it slowly creeps back as my hand starts to cramp up.
No doubt about it, I'm holding off on the changeout until I get some time to ride outside of the enduro season. Besides, I would like for some more folks to try out the auto clutch on my bike and if the hand brake is on, then it's more likely the brake will be too distracting.

 

[Smit-Dog]

Good point on downhill braking, where the front clampers are key. Depends on the type of terrain you ride - it's relatively flat where I live. And I've been stuck on the face of a steep, rocky hill climb, unable to kick start the bike due to the fact that the rear brake pedal was the only thing keeping me alive! Now a dual brake setup on the bars would be key there (or magic button), but again, for the other 90% of the time, I think I'd prefer a rear brake pedal.

 

[skipro3]

I'll be willing to admit making a mistake if the hand brake doesn't work the way I want it to, or it's too much of a trade-off. Time will tell. So far, no one with a hand lever rear brake is complaining. Is that right?
I got this thing for next to nothing from EFM as appreciation for the installation document I generated for them on the KDX auto clutch. So nothing really lost here. I tried talking my riding buddy into puting it on his bike as he got the auto clutch same time as me. But he's happy with his rear brake performance. I'll be trying out a new rear tire by the time I ride in Oregon again, first weekend in November, so that may keep me happy for the season with my down hill braking.
BTW Smit, out here, we have some downhills that drop upwards to 1000 feet of elevation with water bars every so often before leveling out, although most are less. Still, the riding is mainly uphill, then downhill, repeat for next 5 hours. The hardest part of that is keeping my weight back on the rear for downhill. My arms get very tired trying to keep my sack off the gas tank. It feels like I'm doing a hand stand for 20 minutes at a time. If you're ever out this way work on doing about 100 pushups without a stop. That should do the trick.
O.K. next hop-up is puting a E button on a KDX. Who's going to do that and write up their results?