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General Moto | Off-Topic Posts
Tax Day - How big is your tax burden?
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[QUOTE="robwbright, post: 1049447, member: 60515"] Lunch time! Okie, apparently you consider my factual statement (and the founder's position) ridiculous. It is certain that your argument is. Nevertheless, I'm going to answer yours. How about an attempt at a reasonable answer to mine? You used a straw man argument - not an effective way to have a debate or to prove your point. Of course the Founders (and the multitudes of other slaveowners - both North and South - were wrong about slavery. That does not mean they were wrong (or right) about other things. If you or I lived in that time, it is likely that we would have owned slaves - if we could have afforded it. Note: You might want to check your facts - Franklin owned two slaves and then came to the conclusion that slavery was wrong and freed them. BTW, did I actually say here that they were right about the standing military, or did I make a factual statement about their position and the content of the constitution. Perhaps you should put your glasses on. The Constitution was intended to be a check on government taxation/spending/expansion. If people want a standing army, then they are supposed to amend the Constitution to allow for it. Any complaints about high taxes (expansion of government power) go directly towards a refusal by Congress (and the people) to honor the Constitution as written. If you're not going to support the whole thing as written, then throw it all out. Otherwise, there's no point in complaining about taxes because without the Rule of law based on the Constitution, there is no check on the government - as we have seen. Anyway,below is a more complete answer to your straw man argument cut from a couple webpages. These people (such as Okiewan :p ) paint a false picture of the Founding Fathers and the issue of slavery. The historical fact is that slavery was not the product of, nor was it an evil introduced by the Founders; slavery was introduced in America nearly two centuries before the Founders. In fact, Supreme Court Chief Justice John Jay noted that there had been few serious efforts to dismantle the institution of slavery prior to the Founding Fathers. "Prior to the great Revolution, the great majority . . . of our people had been so long accustomed to the practice and convenience of having slaves that very few among them even doubted the propriety and rectitude of it." Benjamin Franklin explained that this separation from Britain was necessary since every attempt among the Colonies to end slavery had been thwarted or reversed by the British Crown. Benjamin Franklin, in a 1773 letter to Dean Woodward, confirmed that whenever the Americans had attempted to end slavery, the British government had indeed thwarted those attempts. Franklin explained that . . . ". . . a disposition to abolish slavery prevails in North America, that many of Pennsylvanians have set their slaves at liberty, and that even the Virginia Assembly have petitioned the King for permission to make a law for preventing the importation of more into that colony. This request, however, will probably not be granted as their former laws of that kind have always been repealed." Further confirmation that even the Virginia Founders were not responsible for slavery, but actually tried to dismantle the institution, was provided by John Quincy Adams (known as the "hell-hound of abolition" for his extensive efforts against that evil). Adams explained: "The inconsistency of the institution of domestic slavery with the principles of the Declaration of Independence was seen and lamented by all the southern patriots of the Revolution; by no one with deeper and more unalterable conviction than by the author of the Declaration himself [Jefferson]. No charge of insincerity or hypocrisy can be fairly laid to their charge. Never from their lips was heard one syllable of attempt to justify the institution of slavery. They universally considered it as a reproach fastened upon them by the unnatural step-mother country [Great Britain] and they saw that before the principles of the Declaration of Independence, slavery, in common with every other mode of oppression, was destined sooner or later to be banished from the earth. Such was the undoubting conviction of Jefferson to his dying day. In the Memoir of His Life, written at the age of seventy-seven, he gave to his countrymen the solemn and emphatic warning that the day was not distant when they must hear and adopt the general emancipation of their slaves." While Jefferson himself had introduced a bill designed to end slavery, 6 not all of the southern Founders were opposed to slavery. According to the testimony of Virginians James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and John Rutledge, it was the Founders from North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia who most strongly favored slavery. In fact, in the years following America's separation from Great Britain, many of the Founding Fathers who had owned slaves released them (e.g., John Dickinson, Ceasar Rodney, William Livingston, George Washington, George Wythe, John Randolph, and others). . . . the clear majority of the Founders was opposed to this evil--and their support went beyond words. Other prominent Founding Fathers who were members of societies for ending slavery included Richard Bassett, James Madison, James Monroe, Bushrod Washington, Charles Carroll, William Few, John Marshall, Richard Stockton, Zephaniah Swift, and many more. In fact, based in part on the efforts of these Founders, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts abolished slavery in 1780; Connecticut and Rhode Island did so in 1784; New Hampshire in 1792; Vermont in 1793; New York in 1799; and New Jersey in 1804. Furthermore, the reason that the states of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Iowa all prohibited slavery was a federal act authored by Rufus King (signer of the Constitution) and signed into law by President George Washington which prohibited slavery in those territories. "Many of the white people [who] have been instruments in the hands of God for our good, even such as have held us in captivity, are now pleading our cause with earnestness and zeal." -Former slave Richard Allen [B]Are we (you) going to continue to condemn the Founders over slavery?[/B] [/QUOTE]
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General Moto | Off-Topic Posts
Tax Day - How big is your tax burden?
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