mx547

Ortho doc's wet dream
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 24, 2000
4,787
102
is it really that bad now? i heard memberships were way down since they went to $75 fees. this was on a tulsa forum:

I have to say though, even though the red trail is the "premier" trail, I took my older boy with us to ride the quad around the blue and it was so jacked up it wasnt possible. He had to ride around the pits and down in the bottom area. While we were down close to the first bridge crossing I hear some girl screaming bloody murder. I jump off my bike and take off running up the trail and find this girl pinned under her quad with was completely upside down from the trail being so washed out. It was her first time there i think and probably her last. The moto track is non existant with 2 foot deap washouts and overgrowth all over it. I expected with the price increase the place was going to see more regular maintanence. Its in the worst shape I think Ive ever seen it.

They should just label it a motorcycle only place if they arent going to make the atv trails passable. My boy still had fun but i was dissapointed he couldnt do more trail riding.
 

BSWIFT

Sponsoring Member
N. Texas SP
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 25, 1999
7,926
43
It wouldn't surprise me that the quad trails are in bad shape. Rarely do the quad riding groups show up on work days to help improve the trails. The fee change was the City of Stillwater's idea to raise money, NOT to improve the park. The fee hike lowered the interest of riders to support the park and they don't want to volunteer to work after paying the fee. The track simply takes a beating from the weather. Typically, the Stillwater Trail Riders pay to have the track maintained but it is done thru donations and race proceeds. It the weather is uncooperative, the track does not get maintained.
Apalachia Bay is unmaintained yet hundreds go there every weekend for free. The 500 is still maintained by volunteers and the fees the City collects go towards gravel in the parking areas and trash pickup. The small group of regular volunteers are all bike riders so they concentrate on the trails, simple as that.
 

2strokerfun

Member
May 19, 2006
1,500
1
Has anyone seen what the actual numbers of memberships are compared to when it was $25 ?? I was a member in 08 and 09. I got out there a total of four times during those two years. Now I have to admit, $25 for a family of four was probably not enough money. But for a guy like me that gets out there once or twice a year (usually by myself), I also consider $75 too much. I think $50 would probably increase membership among those occassional riders like myself. For someone who goes quite often, $75 is still a bargain. Personally, I think the city should sell day passes for $10, but it would be difficult to do on weekends, since the P&R department isn't open on weekends. It's a supply and demand dilemma and I don't think anyone with the city gave any consideration at all to the "demand" side of things when they tripled the fee (Getting 400 memberships at $50 is more money than getting 200 memberships at $75). It seemed more of an arbitrary and capricious increase with no real thought given to any economic realities.
As far as maintenance goes, I guessing it's the same dedicated handful of people putting in their time, money and sweat year after year after year to keep it maintained (But I don't remember the trails being particularly quad-friendly even in the best of times).
It's just a great place, but I do worry about its long-term future if the city sees it as nothing more than a revenue source.
 

tx246

~SPONSOR~
May 8, 2001
1,306
1
75 would be a bargain for where I ride but I am used to $15 a day. I love the 500 but it is too far to make multiple visits and 75bucks to run one day is not going to work.

If you do live and ride 4-5 times a year, it is still a smoking deal.

Consider this. In the Dallas/Ft Worth metro, there is only one real premier place to ride and you can only ride on Sat/Sun at $15 a day. You cant camp unless you purchase a $50 membership on top of your daily fee. It adds up in a hurry if you have family. Your wife or any non riding members have to pay a daily fee too.
 

wake_rider

Member
Feb 21, 2007
481
2
The 500 isn't even that enjoyable anymore. I went out there about 2 months ago and realized that my $75 could have been better spent in buying T. Boone Pickens stadium tickets(yep, season tickets for me and my whole family :D ), and I'm a Sooners fan! Really though, the trails were rain rutted to the 10th degree, and the track was non-existent and a sadder excuse than the the Draper "mx track."

That place has all of the potential of any riding location in Oklahoma that I've been to, but it doesn't have the organization to fulfill its potential, and for the price they charge to ride that place, it's just not a location that I'll make the mistake of traveling for again...
 

2strokerfun

Member
May 19, 2006
1,500
1
wake_rider said:
realized that my $75 could have been better spent in buying T. Boone Pickens stadium tickets(yep, season tickets for me and my whole family :D ), and I'm a Sooners fan! ..

Sigh........ a real pet peeve of mine............ $75 won't even get a four year old into an Okla State football game anymore. I bleed orange, but I won't set foot in Pickens stadium until Mike Holder is no longer athletic director. I'm an attorney and I can't afford to take my family of four (still at home) to an OSU home game without jeopardizing our finances. $90-$100 a ticket x 4, plus gas ($20 Tulsa and back), plus snack and a soft drink and we'd be out $500 for one game. As nice as it is, it ain't Yankee Stadium and those prices are outrageous.
I digress, though, my deepest sympathies on that sooner thing.
As far as the condition of the 500 goes, In the six or so times I've ridden there, I've seen it good and I've seen it bad. But there is no way the small handful of dedicated volunteers can possibly keep a place that size up all the time (and those "motocross" tracks there simply scare the living hell out of me).
I probably ought to just re-up so I can't sit back and whine and bitch if we ever lose this place without ever trying to help.
 

wake_rider

Member
Feb 21, 2007
481
2
2strokerfun said:
Sigh........ a real pet peeve of mine............ $75 won't even get a four year old into an Okla State football game anymore. I bleed orange, but I won't set foot in Pickens stadium until Mike Holder is no longer athletic director. I'm an attorney and I can't afford to take my family of four (still at home) to an OSU home game without jeopardizing our finances. $90-$100 a ticket x 4, plus gas ($20 Tulsa and back), plus snack and a soft drink and we'd be out $500 for one game. As nice as it is, it ain't Yankee Stadium and those prices are outrageous.
I digress, though, my deepest sympathies on that sooner thing.
As far as the condition of the 500 goes, In the six or so times I've ridden there, I've seen it good and I've seen it bad. But there is no way the small handful of dedicated volunteers can possibly keep a place that size up all the time (and those "motocross" tracks there simply scare the living hell out of me).
I probably ought to just re-up so I can't sit back and whine and bitch if we ever lose this place without ever trying to help.


This is the same issue that I have with Draper. If you're paying to ride an area then the preparation and maintenance should not solely be the responsibility of you, as well. It has nothing to do with sitting back and whining, it has everything to do with the fact that the funds brought in by the selling of permits should be directly apportioned back to ensuring both the longevity and condition of stated area, and both of those coincide with the one another.

When your cost of use increases to be able to use the area while the conditions degrade, you will lose both paying supporters and place a heavier burden on the minority group of volunteers who service the riding area.

While I have this same complaint with Draper, at least the Crosstimbers Off-Road Park is slowly making improvements to the park with the income they receive in the form of grants and the sales of permits. The parking areas are growing and becoming more organized, and there seems to be a more established and better organized supporting group of leadership for the volunteers. I've been involved both recently and in the past with volunteer work out at the Draper facility, and it has become much better organized from the leadership standpoint whereas the work-dates are more consistent and better planned, and the turnout for volunteer work has grown in size. This all being said, is it good enough where it is and should everything remain in its current state? Not at all. If you take the amount of income made from the sale of just one permit and multiply that by the number of annual permits that place receives (although I don't know any exact numbers, I do know the number is likely high in comparison to most locations), there is more than enough funding to legitimately hire out some of the servicing of the trails. With state equipment at the disposal of the workers, and equipment being of the highest cost of operation, there is no reason that ALL work responsibilities should be absorbed by volunteers.

The same goes for the 500. The conditions have progressively become worse over the past decade, and it's now in a pathetic state. What needs to happen in order to begin the restoration process? The city, who makes income off the property, needs to quit relying on everyone else to step up and take care of the situation for them, and actually show some initiative to repair and improve a solid income opportunity. Just look at walking/biking trails as they're often improved and repaired, and the people using them never pay a dime...
 

craig_enid

Member
Mar 23, 2000
872
0
One man's trash is another man's treasure?
Wednesday was great!
Met Derek and Don at 10AM. Went to Hideaway for pizza and beer a little after 5pm.
In between was 38 odometer miles and 2.5 hours on the hour meter. Lots of leaves, lots of downed trees, and lots of fun! Since Derek was in the lead, he usually had the trail cleared by the time Don and I straggled up to him.
We've been waiting for this kind of weather!
 
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