89 KDX200 Headlight. Help & win a cookie: PART II

[SS109]

I guess right now I'm wondering about the 3 light switch wires and the 2 horn wires. Like I said, I haven't actually hooked them into the switches yet (I don't have a horn switch yet...been slackin), cause the terminals are so tiny, I didn't want to hook them up incorrectly and have to go back and redo them.
So looking at that diagram, can anyone tell which wiring connections would produce which results?
I mean, it could be something as simple as I had flooded the engine or or whatever.

Oh...and here's my dumb for the day. That little valve connected to the carb...not the fuel line valve, but the little one with the knob on top that just goes up and down...that is the choke right?

As long as you didn't cut through any of the existing wiring running to the CDI then it should be fine electrically. Just make sure the wires to the switch are not shorting to one another or to the chassis.

Yes, the little valve with the knob is your choke.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Pretty sure I didn't cut an of the wires leading to the CDI. Pretty much just did everything as it was shown in the diagram...I think the closest I ever came to the CDI was either grounding the horn & VR. I dunno...I'm gonna pull plastic off again today I think and have a closer look. Part of me is just praying I'll go over and it'll fire right up, idunno...I'll post more probably in about 3 hours here....any other thoughts or ideas or whatevers in the meanwhile are appreciated. Cause right now I don't even know where to begin to look for the problem.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Well, I don't think it's a flooding thing. The bike sat all last nite and into the day and I just now tried kickin him over with nothing magical to report. Gonna go tear it apart again and hopefully figure out what's wrong...I don't mind there being a problem...what bothers me is not knowing what that problem is or where it's located....arghhhh.

 

[SS109]

Are you getting spark to the plug?

 

[DirtyRyan]

I haven't checked yet. I would think I would have to be though...I mean, it was firing perfectly fine before I started rewiring. Fired up on first or second kick every time...

 

[m007gunit]

I would double check all your wiring but first I would check fuel and spark first cant have ignition without either. then I would check to make sure all your wires are correct.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Yup....just checked. There's spark for sure. I was almost hopin that would have been it...but alas. Part of me is wondering if maybe it could just have something to do with the fact that those switches arent actually hooked up? Imean, I can't understand why that would matter if Im manually connecting the wires where the switch would...but idunno. I mean, I'm still getting a little faint flash of light when I kick it...so idunno right now....anyone?

 

[DirtyRyan]

Just thinking out loud....maybe this has to do with the fact that I just used that larger gauge wire (which worked out to be 14 compared to factory 18 gauge). Just thinking maybe considering the larger diameter of the wire, combined with the overall length of the wires used, maybe that's adding just enough resistance in the circuit to not allow enough juice to get all the way back? Thoughts?

 

[SS109]

No, the larger gauge wire is not causing the problem. I am 100% sure on that.

Did you say you are getting some flicker when trying to kickstart it even though the switch is not hooked up?

 

[DirtyRyan]

You don't think that that wider gauge would cause problems? I just kinda thought that with the wider stuff on there the velocity of the current would slow down, maybe even enough to where if thee was only a "just barely" amount of juice, that it might cause problems. I don't understand how that wouldn't effect things, but I'm taking your word on it...just curious about it all.
Yeah, I've got the yellow at the switch connected to one of the two wires running to the headlight switch. My roomate has to watch for it, but he says it's there, and I could tell it was gettinga tiny bit of light going to it when we tried it in the dark. I don't think anythings going to the tail though. Which, was leading me to think...that if juice is getting to the front, and then not making it to the back...that

A) wire to thick, providing more resistance through the wire than can handle
B) A connection made after the headlight is bad.
C) Maybe the diodes were damaged from the fire applied to the heatshrink around them?

Obviously there could be other variables...like maybe the taillight unit itself is gimpy, or...possibly hooked up incorrectly. I did however go like we thought...

Brown to factory red
Green/White to factory Black/Yellow
White to one of the 2 hotwire brake light switch wires.

Perhaps that's the flaw?
Or idunno...is it possible that the wiring for that switch is more picky than just "plug one of them in here, and the other there?"

My logic was that I should re-do the wire with a smaller gauge, thereby making sure connections were stronger, and replacing diodes. Figured this trident approach would do it, but maybe not?

 

[reepicheep]

Its not the gauge of the wire. Trust us. If wire is too small, it's resistance is higher, and as current is forced through it, then (amps * amps * ohms = watts). Watts through a wire mean heat. Think about grabbing the business end of a 15 watt soldering iron, or a 100 watt light bulb, to get a sense of what a watt is. So if the wire is too small, it'll work fine (with a bit of a voltage drop) until it melts the insulation.

If the wire is too big, it just has less voltage drop, and just works, and never heats up. The biggest issue with big wires is that they are a hassle to run, connect, they are stiff, and they are more expensive.

Which schematic did you follow? What was the post number? We should be able to tell you if the diode should be able to keep the bike from starting... but you probably did something you don't know about (and therefore can't tell us about), and that is what is probably keeping it from starting.

Stupid question, but you do have fresh gas in there, right? This hasn't been sitting for a long time, has it?

 

[DirtyRyan]

Ok, so bigger wire not an issue, check. The schematic followed was the one on page 6 of this thread, located here:

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=175031&page=6&pp=10

As far as the gas goes, it's the same stuff that was in there when I bought the bike Around the end of July. It was running through the bike fine when I had started taking it apart, but I guess it's been sitting a bout a month. Thoughts?

 

[SS109]

Keep the lights unhooked until the bike is running. Then you can switch them on.

BTW, did you wire the diodes in the correct direction? There is an "in" and "out" to them. I wouldn't think the small amount of heat seen from heatshrinking would affect them to the point of destroying them.

OK, are you getting fuel into the carb? The fuel could be a tad weak but should be OK. However, it probably wouldn't hurt to have fresh stuff in there. I know some will cringe at this suggestion but you could hit it with a touch of starting fluid to help the starting process. Just open the airbox and lift the edge of the air filter and give it a half second squirt, let the air filter close, and then kick start it. Be very careful using it if you do. A little bit goes a long way.

 

[reepicheep]

I think I see a problem in that schematic, but I think it would burn up the brake light switch, not stop the bike from starting...

You have the yellow (+12V) wire shorted to ground (through the brake light switch) when you put on the brakes.

 

[SS109]

I think I see a problem in that schematic, but I think it would burn up the brake light switch, not stop the bike from starting...

You have the yellow (+12V) wire shorted to ground (through the brake light switch) when you put on the brakes.

If he has grounded the Yellow wire then, yes, there would be a problem. However, the brake light switch is 100% hot "in" and "out". It should run from the positive Yellow (or Red) wire to the switch and then from the switch to the positive terminal of the brake light bulb. If it is wired to the common ground on the tail/brake light bulb then there could be a problem.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Hey gang....update:

The bike not starting did indeed turn out to be (like so many things) , a case of bad gas. Got it changed out and replaced it with some new stuff, and then there were smiles.

Headlight works, adding the switch now. Horn works. Tail light works. License plate works. Only problem is the brake light isn't coming on when I hit the brakes (front or rear brakes).

So I'm working on finishing up the wiring thing right now. Lemme know what info ya'll need for trouble shooting here and I'll get it to ya. Thanks for the help thus far. Almost there :D

 

[SS109]

I'm glad it was something as simple as bad gas. :cool:

About that brake light... make sure all other lighting is off. Now, make sure the bulb itself is good. Run 12v to the brake element using jumper wires. if it lights then the bulb is good. However, is it brighter or dimmer than the tail light?

 

[DirtyRyan]

I'll need a bit more direction on this one. When you say 12v added by jumper wire, you're presumably not meaning to hook the bike up to my truck right? I would think that would just make bad things... though my roomate was reading how he can jump this scooter we sort of inherited from our last roomate, by hooking it up to a car battery with the car turned off so as not to pull extra juice from the alternator. Is the same applying here, or ?
Also, wondering if you knew which wires went to which terminals. I went ahead and wired that 12 gauge straight into the smaller 18 gauge wire, and then ran those into the terminals. I think the 18 should be fine. I rode the bike down the block and back with the lights on...the wires didn't seem to be getting hot or anything so *shrugs... But I hooked em up where yellow is in the middle, and then high and low on either side of it. One worked, (seemed like the low), but the switch wouldn't run any light from what should have been the high. So which wires go to which points?
Oh, I was also gonna ask...anyone know off the top of their heads how to adjust the angle of the headlight? Right now the headlight seems to think that I intend to ride this bike off into the night sky like I was Elliot and it was ET or somethin....I'd prefer to stay on the ground....well, at least during the evening anyway...

 

[SS109]

I'll need a bit more direction on this one. When you say 12v added by jumper wire, you're presumably not meaning to hook the bike up to my truck right? I would think that would just make bad things... though my roomate was reading how he can jump this scooter we sort of inherited from our last roomate, by hooking it up to a car battery with the car turned off so as not to pull extra juice from the alternator. Is the same applying here, or ?

OK, forget the jumper wire. Switch around the leads going to the tail/brake light bulb. Connect the tail to brake and the brake to tail. Does the bulb work as a tail light still or is it dead?

Also, wondering if you knew which wires went to which terminals. I went ahead and wired that 12 gauge straight into the smaller 18 gauge wire, and then ran those into the terminals. I think the 18 should be fine. I rode the bike down the block and back with the lights on...the wires didn't seem to be getting hot or anything so *shrugs... But I hooked em up where yellow is in the middle, and then high and low on either side of it. One worked, (seemed like the low), but the switch wouldn't run any light from what should have been the high. So which wires go to which points?

So, you have lights when on the low beam circuit but not on the high beam circuit, correct?

You should have only three wires on the headlight bulb. One is ground, one high, one low. Make sure you have the correct terminal from the bulb going to the proper wire.

Oh, I was also gonna ask...anyone know off the top of their heads how to adjust the angle of the headlight? Right now the headlight seems to think that I intend to ride this bike off into the night sky like I was Elliot and it was ET or somethin....I'd prefer to stay on the ground....well, at least during the evening anyway...

Sorry, can't help with that.

If you don't get it sorted soon I will post up some picks of mine. I will hopefully be doing it next week.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Here's the latest:

Tried running a jumperwire from the red (into brown) going to the tail light, and ran that over to one of the brake light switch wires. The brake light didn't light.
We were thinking however, that maybe whats going on here might be more mechanical than electrical. Ya think maybe if a little brake fluid was lost in the process, or if there's air in the line, that could be the problem?
We'll probably end up bleeding the brakes later tonight.

Which reminds me, there isn't any sort of special brake fluid I'm supposed to use on this or anything is there? I asked the guy I bought it from to email me the basic "babysitter do's and don'ts" list of what fluids, fuel, brands, parts, etc he'd been using, but he never did so *shrugs....

In other news, figured out how to angle that headlight where I want it, and I got the high and low beam working.

 

[reepicheep]

I still don't see how this isn't just shorting the voltage regulator output to ground when you hit the brake switch...

Follow the yellow highlighted line... it goes from V+ from the regulator output, through the brake switch, to ground. All that will ever do is burn up a brake switch or the associated wiring (provided the stator can put out enough current).

The green highlighted line would in theory light up the tail light.

I think there is supposed to be a dual filament bulb back there, and the yellow line should go to the other filament then the green line went to, and the other end of those filaments should be grounded. Or maybe that is what the schematic is trying to show, and I was just too dense to get it... that the yellow highlighted wire isn't to the BK/Y line, but actually to another filament in the bulb. And the BK/Y wire goes to a common ground at the other end of both filaments. That would work.

Now that I study it, the headlight end of the diagram is just as confusing... that green highlighted wire needs to go to the "other filament" in the dual filament bulb, and the BK wire should be a common ground for both filaments.

So I think the schematic is right, just with a few really non obvious important details (which were probably described somewhere in the text for the thread, I haven't been following that closely...)

 

[DirtyRyan]

Yeah, it's still early here so I'll have to reply to the wiring stuff when I'm awake and in the garage later. As for the bulb, I pulled the lens off last night to get a closer inspection. Interesting bulb...dual filament, and there's a third little light within it that serves as the license plate light. The filaments are all intact.
I'm just kinda confused... I touched a wire from the red back there carrying the power, to the white going to the brake light, and the bulb didn't light up. The filaments ok, so I'm presuming it has to be something at the switch.
Like I said, I'm gonna try a brake bleed on it. I'm thinking maybe there just isn't enough hydraulic pressure to trip the wire or something. I only lost a little fluid when putting the switch in, but then my measurements are traditionally gauged comparative to large, old chevy truck. So maybe that is it...seems simplest at this point.
The headlight situation is working top notch right now, though I still need to actually solder the connections to the switch and mount it. Got the mirror installed yesteday....that was kinda cool. I like that it collapses...kinda neat.

 

[SS109]

Follow the yellow highlighted line... it goes from V+ from the regulator output, through the brake switch, to ground. All that will ever do is burn up a brake switch or the associated wiring (provided the stator can put out enough current).

The green highlighted line would in theory light up the tail light.

Yes, the bulb should be a dual filament bulb. I have assumed the '89 is the same as the '90 (like mine) and has a dual filament bulb (1157) from the factory even though it only uses one filament.

The brake light switch connects to NO ground anywhere. It should be run to the brake light filament (not tail light filament) and be (+) positive only. If it is grounded anywhere then, yes, there would be a short.

...Or maybe that is what the schematic is trying to show...And the BK/Y wire goes to a common ground at the other end of both filaments. That would work.

Yep!

...that green highlighted wire needs to go to the "other filament" in the dual filament bulb, and the BK wire should be a common ground for both filaments.

You are correct.

So I think the schematic is right, just with a few really non obvious important details (which were probably described somewhere in the text for the thread, I haven't been following that closely...)

Yeah, instead of drawing a completely new schematic I reused the original and "improvised" a bit. I can see how it would be confusing without the associated text that goes with it. I'll do a slightly revised version of it.

 

[SS109]

OK, revised to be just a little clearer. I just added the necessary text. I would hope someone would know that you don't connect a positive (+) to a ground (-).

 

[reepicheep]

You should see my collection of "used to be wire cutters but now are wire strippers"... they are in the drawer below my "used to be drill bits but are now welding rods". :uh: