Are THe New Honda 250x's more reliable than the new xr650r's????

[joelyles2004]

A friend of mine may be choosing between these 2 bikes for trail riding. Im thinkin the XR650r will be more reliable and require less maintenance. Do u guys know how the 650r will compare to the 250x in power? Any comments or opinions would be appreciated.

 

[James]

The 650R will be much more reliable and much more powerful. It is also much heavier.

 

[LukeRips]

It's not even a comparison other than they're both made by Honda. The 650 will have loads more power than a 250. It'll chug forever and never runs out of power but it's very heavy. The 250X will be very maneuverable on trails but you'll be a throttle jockey to extract it's power. For riding in Florida the 650 will blast over those palmetto roots with much ease and sand will no longer be a worry.

 

[KDXFreestyle]

the 650 is a trail bike and the 250X is a de-tuned race bike, for the trails. The 250X will require just about the sam emaintence as the race bike, and the 650 will probably require less than half the engine maintence (besides oil changes), therefore will be more reliable.

 

[zio]

Lukerips, I rode a 250X the other day. It was my first time on any 250F. I didn't find the power to be anything but user friendly. I never felt like it was under powered, either. And I'm a 200lb guy in gear. It didn't have arm yanking power like a 450, but it moderate hills with ease.

 

[Kramer112]

Did the 250 have to be pushed to get the power out like a 125cc 2 stroke would?

 

[Studboy]

You don't have to wring them out like 125's, but it will feel like a 65 compared to that 650 in terms of torque.

 

[pyrofreak]

How about waiting until they release the CRF450Xs?

 

[Patman]

The XR650 runs the Baja 1000, it was made to do that, the 250X wasn't designed with that in mind. You are comparing two completly different bikes, not even apples and oranges but more like grapes and canned tuna.

 

[CR Swade]

How about waiting until they release the CRF450Xs?

Sounds like you want the reliability that Honda fans were accustomed to from the XR engines...ther isn't any CRF (250 or 450) engine that is gonna give you that, well w/ the exception of the XR lineup renamed CRF.

I waited on the 450X patientily, only to keep hearing of the reliability problems of the CRF. The new "X" model will probably still have the same issues plus it is a porker. 255 claimed dry weight, In Honda lingo, that is 270 real world w/ oil, anti-freeze, fork oil, battery, etc.

XR650 isn't that far off weight-wise, but a KTM four stroke is much lighter, much more reliable and for 05 has an off-road suspension that is remarkable.

 

[CR Swade]

the 650 is a trail bike and the 250X is a de-tuned race bike, for the trails. .

Detuned? There are hot rod 80's making more power than that 28hp wheezer

 

[Patman]

See! Honda just should have come to me and I would have shown them how to build it right :)

 

[john3_16]

Sounds like you want the reliability that Honda fans were accustomed to from the XR engines...ther isn't any CRF (250 or 450) engine that is gonna give you that, well w/ the exception of the XR lineup renamed CRF.

I waited on the 450X patientily, only to keep hearing of the reliability problems of the CRF. The new "X" model will probably still have the same issues plus it is a porker. 255 claimed dry weight, In Honda lingo, that is 270 real world w/ oil, anti-freeze, fork oil, battery, etc.

XR650 isn't that far off weight-wise, but a KTM four stroke is much lighter, much more reliable and for 05 has an off-road suspension that is remarkable.

I don't know about that much more reliable part.

The bolts on a KTM are so tiny it better be lighter..That's why I question its reliablity..

This is what gets me about KTM....They've got lots of high quality stuff like steel braided lines, good handle bars, powder coated frame, and hydraulic clutch..But then they fasten it all together with the smallest bolts I've ever seen.. Even critical engine components are fastened together with tiny bolts...

 

[CR Swade]

I don't know about that much more reliable part.

The bolts on a KTM are so tiny it better be lighter..That's why I question its reliablity..

This is what gets me about KTM....They've got lots of high quality stuff like steel braided lines, good handle bars, powder coated frame, and hydraulic clutch..But then they fasten it all together with the smallest bolts I've ever seen.. Even critical engine components are fastened together with tiny bolts...

same size bolts as my CR's, plus I've never heard of bolt failures on KTM's.

They are cheezy in that if you don't loctite them your bike will lighten itself. The Hondas have the best bolts/hardware to grace a motorcycle, but it sure as heck ain't gonna help those glass engines in the CRF lineup...or should I say "luck of the draw" engines. Some guys never have a problem, some guys have a CRF that stands for, "well, I guess I Could Re-Finance all of these repairs."

 

[stroker]

ktm bolt failures...

go to KTMtalk and read about the KTM bolt failures, thehead bolts on the RFS line are to light, they are breaking.

 

[CR Swade]

yeah, the cam cover bolts on the RFS. The problem came to light about a year ago, replace the 6 bolts w/ stronger ones from KTM. It has actually been decided by many that this is a wear item as even when using higher grade bolts, they eventually break. It is a high stress/vibration area that wears bolts; if you go to hard of a bolt, it wears the rocker arm. Bolts are cheap on this particular item, replace them on a semi-regular basis. Plus when they do break, it doesn't grenade the engine, just makes a mess from oil.

Sorry, but a Kawazuki or Honda 4T doesn't hold a candle to KTM RFS or even Yammie's in the long term reliability dept. If you are gonna tear them down as frequently as per instructions, the Japanese fours are fine...I don't care to have to spend that much time and $$$ on a engine wrapped in a package that weighs close to the big XR. We are talking about reliability compared to XR. Might as well get the big XR since he wants reliability also. The CRF is a joke in that dept, plus completely out of place for off-road/woods and now w/ the X model its also a tank.

The KTM RFS has the CRF"X" whooped in all aspects now especially when considering weight, the CRF"X" is nothing more than a different colored WR.

 

[john3_16]

yeah, the cam cover bolts on the RFS. The problem came to light about a year ago, replace the 6 bolts w/ stronger ones from KTM. It has actually been decided by many that this is a wear item as even when using higher grade bolts, they eventually break. It is a high stress/vibration area that wears bolts; if you go to hard of a bolt, it wears the rocker arm. Bolts are cheap on this particular item, replace them on a semi-regular basis. Plus when they do break, it doesn't grenade the engine, just makes a mess from oil.

Sorry, but a Kawazuki or Honda 4T doesn't hold a candle to KTM RFS or even Yammie's in the long term reliability dept. If you are gonna tear them down as frequently as per instructions, the Japanese fours are fine...I don't care to have to spend that much time and $$$ on a engine wrapped in a package that weighs close to the big XR. We are talking about reliability compared to XR. Might as well get the big XR since he wants reliability also. The CRF is a joke in that dept, plus completely out of place for off-road/woods and now w/ the X model its also a tank.

The KTM RFS has the CRF"X" whooped in all aspects now especially when considering weight, the CRF"X" is nothing more than a different colored WR.

CRSwade...I hear ya about the CRF...But I've heard that if ya get the kibblewhite valves and springs the CRF is quite reliable...

But Nothing has the reliablity record of the XR....I would definitely admit..That a KTM with better bolts would be a reliable machine

 

[OnAnySunday]

You are comparing two completly different bikes, not even apples and oranges but more like grapes and canned tuna.

More like grapes and pork chops....... :laugh:
(BRP= big red pig.)
Good thing i like pork.

 

[Patman]

OK fine, grapes and Spam! LOL!

 

[Ud Luz]

That a KTM with better bolts would be a reliable machine

Maybe so but I put over 10k miles on my 02 400exc and the kid I sold it to rides it like a motocrosser. He's added another 2.5k miles.

The bike has never had ANY engine work done to it.

I liked the 02 so much I purchased an 04 400exc. I'm not a Honda basher, owned an xr400 and it was a great bike.

Purchased an 04 crf250x and had so much trouble I gave it to my neighbor kid. He's trying to figure out how to put a cr250 2 stroke engine in it.

Maybe the bolts are not the best but so far the 02 has 12.5k miles and the 04 2000 miles without trouble. KTM is doing something right.

 

[john3_16]

Maybe so but I put over 10k miles on my 02 400exc and the kid I sold it to rides it like a motocrosser. He's added another 2.5k miles.

The bike has never had ANY engine work done to it.

I liked the 02 so much I purchased an 04 400exc. I'm not a Honda basher, owned an xr400 and it was a great bike.

Purchased an 04 crf250x and had so much trouble I gave it to my neighbor kid. He's trying to figure out how to put a cr250 2 stroke engine in it.

Maybe the bolts are not the best but so far the 02 has 12.5k miles and the 04 2000 miles without trouble. KTM is doing something right.

Well, I really have no room to talk since I have no experience with a KTM...Obviously you are more than happy with the performance of your KTM.

I mean, everything about the KTM is really impressive..One day I was examining it real close and noticed that the bolts were very small....

The things that came to my mind were:

1. How strong are the bolts being so small ?

2. Did KTM have to lower torque values to compensate for the bolt size and just figure the trade off for lightness is a bolt that would come loose ?

3. Is the grade of material so good that number 1 and 2 are non issues ?


I don't know the answer to these but they did come to my mind...

 

[CR Swade]

Well, I really have no room to talk since I have no experience with a KTM...Obviously you are more than happy with the performance of your KTM.

I mean, everything about the KTM is really impressive..One day I was examining it real close and noticed that the bolts were very small....

The things that came to my mind were:

1. How strong are the bolts being so small ?

2. Did KTM have to lower torque values to compensate for the bolt size and just figure the trade off for lightness is a bolt that would come loose ?

3. Is the grade of material so good that number 1 and 2 are non issues ?


I don't know the answer to these but they did come to my mind...

the bolt sizes are the same as all of my CR's for the most part, some are larger. what bike are you comparing the KTM to?

 

[john3_16]

This is comparing it to just about every MX bike..The dealership I was at is a Honda, Kawasaki, and KTM dealer.

Maybe It's just the head of the bolt that is so small ? I'm talking about the ones that hold the radiator covers and things like that...

I haven't actually pulled a bolt out to look at the threads to see if it is the same size..Is this what I'm not seeing ?

I mean, me and a friend were looking at the 04' 525SX and a couple of other KTM's and there was a definite size difference in many of the fasteners...Maybe it's just the bolt heads but they definitely looked very small for some reason.

 

[OnAnySunday]

OK fine, grapes and Spam! LOL!

Green grapes and spam??
Would you eat them Patman i am?
Would you eat them in a box?
Would you eat them with a fox?
Would you eat green grapes and spam?
Would you would you Patman i am???


(MAN, i really need to get more sleep!......) :joke:

 

[Moto_Pimp]

CR Swade and UD Luz do you guys just not like the CRF's? :think: I have an 04' CRF250R and other than the valves there is absolutely NO prob.! But thats the 04 for the 05's it's rumored that Honda has changed and redesigned the head already so now what would the problem be if they are not so reliable. So now the next topic
Power I hope the 650 has more power than the 250! But not to say the 250 is short of it in any why.
But I will agree with you guys that the KTM's are good, but I've always heard that the 250exc 4 stroke was gutless and you are saying the CRF250X is. I No Thinky So. :think: