Important MI Single-Track Legislation

[Trailridin]

Hi fellow DRNers. I am a lurker on these forums and a fellow CCC member. I just got my annual letter in the mail from the CCC for my membership renewal. It contained a "Legislative Alert" outlining how a bill sponsered by Senators Garcia and Leland would change the definintion of an ORV trail width from less than 50 inches to a minimum of 57 inches. This would, in effect, make all of the nice tight single-track in Michigan usable by ATVs. The CCC, AMA and DNR are opposed to the bill. It would ruin all of the nice single-track and cost a lot of money to widen the existing trails. We need to contact these senators to make our feelings known on this bill. The bill is SB 0110.

Here is a link to the bill.
http://www.michiganlegislature.org/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=2003-SB-0110&userid=

 

[fatherandson]

I just read this last night, but forgot to bring it to work.  I have a question.  How much wider is a jeep than a quad?

When I go to the DNR/ORV meetings in Lansing more than 75% of the public in attendance are people who drive jeeps looking for more places to drive.  I wonder if this legislation has anything to do with the "noise" they are making.

This is BAD legislation and everyone needs to get involved by sending letters and emails to the senators and representatives in Lansing.

 

 

[Trailridin]

Most of the ATV ORV trails are 72". That would allow jeep access I would think. The letter said the trails were attempting to be widened to allow access to the six and eight wheeled Argo (amphibious ATVs). The CCC has a nice counter-proposal. They suggest that it would be cheaper and less damaging to just open State forest roads in the Lower Peninsula to ORV travel again. I am all for that.

 

[fatherandson]

Good point.  The CCC is very active is legislative proposals.  Current members should remember that your membership expires at the end of this month.  Those people who are not members (and are reading this forum) SHOULD be members.

 

[Smit-Dog]

Originally posted by Trailridin
... The CCC has a nice counter-proposal. They suggest that it would be cheaper and less damaging to just open State forest roads in the Lower Peninsula to ORV travel again.

I'm all for that!

Joined CCC over a month ago, but haven't received anything yet. If it will help the cause, I'd like to send off a letter to the sponsors of the bill, and support what the CCC is proposing. Checked the CCC web site but couldn't find anything related to this issue.

Does anyone have more information on this bill and specifically what the CCC proposal is so that I can draft an informed, persuasive letter regarding the issue?

 

[Drew 674]

smit dog the CCC flyer i got yesterday has alittle info on it, do you have a fax machine? -drew

 

[Smit-Dog]

Thanks Drew...

I just e-mailed you my FAX number.

 

[70 marlin]

My letters will sent off! JR he heard "that our new governor" Has just bought a new gator. And wants to be able to ride all of the trails. Just open the fire roads and start their GOV!

 

[Racer#213]

OH great! Can't wait to get stuck behind some guy on a work quad going 2mph. At least on the ATV trails you can pass them.

 

[rickshaw]

This really sucks...should we draft a letter with consistent points that could be tailored by each author???

I'm ready to call Valde on this one.

Thanks for the heads up!

rickshaw

 

[Smit-Dog]

Once I get all the facts/issues and the CCC's proposal, I'll post a draft here. I'd liked to be armed with all the information possible in order to effectively oppose it.

In things like this, would it be better to create a petition-type letter and get as many people as possible to sign it, then send it to the senators?

Or is it more effective to have a bunch of individual letters sent? I would think that a boilerplate form letter may lose some impact though.

And for a petition letter, do all signatures have to be from registered voters?

Anyone have any experience in doing this?

 

[Smit-Dog]

Some interesting things I've found out....

- The only Argo dealer in Michigan is Argo World Enterprises, located in Howell. The owner is Oliver Durham (517-545-4840).

- The senator proposing the new bill is Valde Garcia. He is the State Senator from District 22. The only Argo dealer in Michigan is located in Howell, which happens to be in District 22.

- Argo will be at the Sports Fishing, Boat and Travel Show at the Lansing Center from Thursday, March 13 - Sunday, March 16. I wonder if Senator Garcia will be their special guest at the show?

- The narrowest Argo ATV is listed on the Argo web site as 57.5" wide. According to the proposed bill:

... "Forest trail" means a designated path or way capable of travel only by a vehicle 57 inches or less in width.

Now unless Argo changes their vehicle spec, or Garcia goofed on getting the width of the Argo correct, even under the proposed bill Argos will still not be allowed on trail. Doesn't stop the bill from making all narrow single track 57" wide though.

I contacted Bill Chapin at the CCC to see what is the most effective thing we can do to oppose this. Still waiting to hear back.

 

[Fred T]

Sent Senator Barcia a letter today. We need to be heard people!

 

[rickshaw]

I just hung up the phone with Marcia - Valde Garcia's assistant. She is familar with the bill and is receiving letters on SB 0110.

We talked for about 30 minutes on the impact of this bill as it relates to safety and cost to taxpayers. She had a much different picture of the impact if this bill if approved than before.

Here's the net; I offered to host a lunch at my CC with Valde and a couple of key people to present our concerns and a less expensive alternative to the taxpayers. Marcia agreed, since Valde lives in my town, told me that his "scheduler" Brett will be back in the office on Monday and will call to discuss the date and time for this event.

I'm looking for support from Mike Maurer and Ron Mollitor - prez of CCC and a business associate to attend this meeting.

I say it's a 50 - 50 chance he'll meet with us. Give me your feedback and I'm prepared to develop a presentation for the meeting.

rickshaw

 

[fatherandson]

An evening meeting would work best for me.  I think it is a great idea Rick!!

We may want to have a conference call or a meeting before the meeting with Garcia to organize thoughts.

Mike

 

[rickshaw]

Mike, I'm all over this like a hobo on a ham :aj:

I would like to get some statistical information on the number of single trackers versus 6 wheelers, compare contributions through ORV licensing revenue, and a statement of work outlining the level of effort required to "widen" a trail.

Maybe we should have one of our members get a picture of Valde sittin' in a 6 wheeler for leverage :confused:

Bill ( Smit Dog ) is this something you can dig up for us???

rickshaw

 

[Smit-Dog]

Great move Rick! :thumb:

I sent out 4 letters: Garcia, co-sponsor Leland, Nancy Cassis, my district senator, and John Stakoe, my representative.

I believe that my dad can get registration stats on ORV sales. He's in AZ right now, but I'll call to see what I can find out. If not, it may take some digging, but I imagine that this information is available to the public through some state agency.

Great point - Hypothetical: Argo ORV registrations represent .05% of all ORV revenue ($x), yet proposed legislation will cost $xx,xxx to implement. :think:

As for Valde, he was at the Argo dealer's open house earlier this year. Guest of Honor? I did find a picture of him from that event. See below...

Bill Chapin from CCC said that they were also at the Argo open house, and did present the CCC's viewpoint on the proposed bill. Chapin also said that the most effective way to oppose this at this point is by individual letters written in your own words.

Also, do not bring up the fact that Argos are 57 1/2" wide, and the bill is only proposing a widening of the trails to 57". It's a FU on Garcia's part - let them realize it on their own.

My step-dad did own an Argo back in the early '80s. He used it for hunting and fishing around the Grayling area. The thing was a clunky POS - had lots of mechanical problems with it. Sold it after 3 months.

Hey Rick - Think your CC would allow a few of us to rip around a little on the golf course? Everytime I drive by a golf course I envision launching off one of those fairway greens! I'll bring my rake and divot tool...

 

[rickshaw]

Smit Dog, amazing minds think alike!!!

The last time I rode my Elsinore on a golf course ( circa 1976 :scream: ) my bike was impounded and my ridin' bud's dad was banned from membership!!

Let's leave the short grass to the guys in striped shirts and silly hats....like fatherand son :eek:

rickshaw

 

[Smit-Dog]

Originally posted by rickshaw
... The last time I rode my Elsinore on a golf course ( circa 1976 :scream: ) my bike was impounded and my ridin' bud's dad was banned from membership!!

Wow - Sounds like a pretty exclusive golf club with stringent membership standards.

Now how is it again that you got in?





;) :)

 

[rickshaw]

different club with an alias :laugh:

rickshaw

 

[MWEISSEN]

Hey guys, got some mailing addresses for mailing letters? I'd like to give them my two cents worth as well!

 

[woodsy]

Yes, addresses please folks. Maybe a new thread started posted as "Heres the addresses please help" would be in order? And I wonder if we could get that posted in all the DRN "areas" like I have seen other necessary items?
Woodsy

 

[Smit-Dog]

Hey Mark,

Here is some contract info regarding opposition to this bill. I also copied my district representatives on the letter to Senator Garcia.

Senator Valde Garcia
District 22
PO Box 30036
Lansing, MI 48909-7536
(517) 373-2420
senvgarcia@senate.michigan.gov

Senator Burton Leland
District 5
PO Box 30036
Lansing, MI 48909-7536
(517) 373-0994
senbleland@senate.michigan.gov

Dennis Knapp
Michigan DNR Legislative Liaison
P.O. Box 30028
Lansing, MI 48909

Royce Wood
AMA
Off-Road Legislative Affairs Specialist
13515 Yarmouth Dr.
Pickerington, Ohio 43147
(614) 856-1900
rwood@ama-cycle.org

 

[Smit-Dog]

I have a draft of a post I was going to put in the Places To Ride forum. Trying to get more information before posting to the masses there.

I also spoke with my dad tonight. He used to be able to get new sales information/registration on ORVs (for mailings), but not anymore.

On another note.... Somebody please help clarify for me the ORV trail-type designations used here in Michigan. The way I understand it, there are 4 types of ORV trails/routes:

1) MCCCT: For motorcycles only.
2) ORV Route: For all ORVs - all sizes (Jeeps, etc.).
3) ORV Trail - Cycles Only: For motorcycles only.
4) ORV Trail - ATVs: For ATVs and motorcycles.

I am assuming that the proposed bill will affect #3 and #4. In the wording of the bill, these are "Forest Trails", and the current maximum width of an ORV on these trails is 50" inches or less. I believe that most if not all quads are around 40"-45" wide.

So, if the bill does change the maximum width of an ORV on these trails to 57", I don't believe that it would affect any of the current single track desigated for motorcycles only. Of the 3,100 miles of ORV trails/routes, 40% is designated as Cycle Trail, 43% ATV/Cycle, and 17% as Route (ORVs of all sizes).

Now what I'm looking for is the info/policy/rules that describes what designates a trail as a Cycle Trail.

Fatherandson?

 

[70 marlin]

MCCCT Trails. Michigan Cross-Country Cycle Trail. Designated for motorcycles only. Sections require DNR license and Secretary State plate.
As far as I know? The only trails meant for vehicles of all sizes. Is the "ORV ROUTE"?