Margin of safety

[23jayhawk]

I rode in my first hare scramble last weekend, and ended up breaking a few bones in my foot. Not the result I had in mind, as I’m 41 and just getting back into the sport after being away since my teen years. I hope to have a good 10 to 15 more years of enjoying this sport, but broken bones simply cannot be part of the game plan in the future. So I could use some advice from the DRN veterans.

I initially insisted that I was not going too fast, and was being careful to pace myself, as conditioning is still very much an issue for me. I believe that most of the time, this was true. I could have driven deeper into most corners, and carried more speed over many of the sections. In reality, this can’t be true, because I dropped the bike at least 5 or 6 times in about 18 miles of very tight woods riding. The actual crash that broke the foot was really a fluke where my foot caught on the peg as the front end washed out. But in all humility, the other crashes were clearly where I had gotten over my head.

It seems the critical issue was how quickly that margin of safety evaporated, leaving me on the ragged edge (and occasionally over it). This sometimes came out of literally nowhere, resulting in many close saves, etc.

So the main questions, how do you recognize when the edge is approaching before it’s too late? And just as importantly, how can you expand the envelope without exceeding it? Sorry for the long post, but this is important. With the right approach, I believe I could ride the same course both faster AND safer, by being able to recognize that margin of safety.

 

[yzeater]

First off, were you wearing boots? And if so, what kind?

 

[23jayhawk]

Answer Team 2's, plus every other conventional protection device aside from knee braces. Brands - O'Neal, Scott, Moose, Fox, etc.

 

[Gardener]

When you say crashes, were they large get-offs or tip-overs? If they were varing degrees of tip-overs, I would think you are probably riding at the speed you should be, ie. challanging yourself. On the other hand, if you are doing high speed bush cruises, you are over your head. You also mention conditioning, as a fellow 41 year old, I know that every time I tip-over and pick-up, valuble energy is drained and consequently each sucessive tip-over, the energy drainage level is increased exponentially. Loss of energy = more dropped bikes. My advice to you is to try to ride as smooth as possible and try to stay as loose as you can. When you do a sighting lap, pay close attention to the good lines. You will know when you've reached your personal top speed as fear will keep you safe, unless you're a complete nutter. IMO, your broken bones were a freak mishap. Racing through the bush, close shaves are a reality, without them, you really aren't pushing yourself to improve. The key is to recognize your personal top speed. Easier said than done but with pratice, it'll come. Now tape-up that foot and hit it!

 

[23jayhawk]

By crashes, I mean caught a tree with a bark buster & turned hard left; washed out the front end at the exit of a turn in 2nd; front end deflecting off a rock/root & into the sticks. I don't count tip-overs, or being knocked down by other riders as I'm picking up.

The key seems to be that a given level of intensity is difficult to judge with respect to reading the terrain ahead. If I'm trying to maintain around 80% max effort, the actual speed I ride through a given section seems to be either way under (or over) my actual speed limit. That ability to read the ground is hopefully something that comes with several hundred more trail miles - I've only put in a couple hundred since getting back into it.

 

[WoodsRider]

Originally posted by 23jayhawk
I rode in my first hare scramble last weekend, and ended up breaking a few bones in my foot. Not the result I had in mind, as I’m 41 and just getting back into the sport after being away since my teen years. I hope to have a good 10 to 15 more years of enjoying this sport, but broken bones simply cannot be part of the game plan in the future. So I could use some advice from the DRN veterans.

There is a certain amount of inherent risk in anything you do, be it driving a car, sitting on the couch or swinging a leg over a motorcycle with the latter being the most risky of the three. Participating in an off-road race brings on additional risk that’s why insurance for off-road motorcycling competition events has sky-rocketed in the last few years. It’s also why some health insurance companies will not cover medical expenses from injuries sustained in off-road competition.

Did you read the yellow sign posted near sign-up or the release form that you printed and signed your name to? Don’t worry, I’m not busting your chops. I’ve never read them myself either. It’s difficult to tell when you’re riding at the edge of your abilities especially when your adrenalin is pumped up during a race and other riders are flying past you.

The simple fact is broken bones, torn ligaments and other, more serious, injuries are a part of our sport. It’s the reason we spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars on protective gear. Maybe by not competing you’ll be less likely to sustain an injury. Unfortunately if you ask most people here, who’ve been riding for at least 10 years, you’ll find some of their worst injuries actually happened while they were out play riding and not during competition. Just look at National Enduro Champion Mike Lafferty.

As long as you participate in this sport you’re going to be taking a greater risk than if you were sitting on the couch at home watching football. You either need to accept this additional risk or find another sport with less risk.

 

[JPIVEY]

Hey JayHawk, I understand were your coming from, I'll be 49 here soon and the mind says go-go-go and the body says whoa hoss, but you are doing the right thing by starting out slow and then trying to push the envelope, because that's the only way you can expand it, there really isn't a way to recognize the edge and push the edge at the same time without getting off once in awhile.

Ride/race as much as you can, the envelope will get larger faster than you think.

Also get your suspension setup for the kind of riding you do the most,then learn to trust it, the more relaxed you are the more you will go with the flow and the result will be less crashes

And remember @ 41 you have another 41 years to practice

 

[2001yz250]

As far as your foot goes, you should buy a better pair of boots. Protective equipment is not a good place to try and cut corners. It will cost you more in the long run. Skipping off rocks/roots can be minimized by using a steering damper, another expensive item. Sounds like your other get-offs were caused by improper body positioning. This is one of the most important things when riding a motorcycle. Unfortunately, this is probably the first thing that suffers when your out of shape. If your like me, your mind knows where your body should be but the body won't cooperate. :whiner: No-one can tell you where the edge lies for you. The only way to find out is pushing until you crash and learn from your mistakes. Just make sure you have the proper, effective protection and equipment, and get in a lot of seat time. :thumb:

 

[23jayhawk]

Thanks for the feedback. Woodsy, I completely agree with you, and believe me I'm not about to park it on the couch. Just taking a cold analytical approach to how I can minimize risk through improved skills. Kind of like a pitcher takes a home run out of the game plan by throwing fast balls low & away - he'll still get burned now & then, but he's done all he can to manage the risk.

yz, you nailed me in the one area that I was feeling guilty. From the beginning, I knew that buying the Answer's was for budget reasons. I figured I would invest in the Gaerne's or Alpine's next year. You can be sure that a pair or Tech6's or better will be on my feet in 8 weeks.

JPIVEY - 41 more years? You are an Iron Man! :worship: Also, a good point on suspension - I procrastinated getting stiffer fork springs. That will help much.

 

[Big Tuna]

When I decided to get back into riding I read everything I could get my hand on, that's how I ended up here, and on an MX technique site they stated that a good rider would recognize a crash many steps before it took place, and could most of the time make corrections before ending up on the ground. I was like "huh? am I going to become clarivoint(sp?) or something, but the more I ride the more I learn to feel the little signs of an impending crash. So, in time your arse will tell your brain more than "hey I've got to poop", it will tell your brain "hey man lay off the front brake, and get on the gas or we're both gonna be hurt'n units.
:moon: listen to me and I will lead you to the promised land

 

[jw380]

Sorry to hear about your injury.I hope you wear more than just a jersey and kidney belt,like most people do,in addition to your lack of knee braces.Dig into your savings account and buy the asterisk braces.I've tried the EVS RS6 and AMX5 with miserable results and the asterisks are great.If you're just getting back to riding,you can improve your skills better and safer without the pressure of people pushing you to go over your limits.If you race,make sure you do it for yourself and not because,seemingly,everyone else does it.When I ride,I can go as fast or slow as I feel like(with a 380,it's mostly fast)and when I get tired,I rest and then go again.Ride fast when you're tired and you can find yourself in a wheelchair.Sure,you can get hurt just play riding but just be safe and keep it fun.

 

[drjperrin]

Sorry to hear about the injury. I also injured my foot in an unusual get-off that ended up causing a couple of small fractures and a lot of soft tissue damage. I am 40 and getting back into the sport after a 15 year lay-off. My fall came when I knew I was tired but did not heed my body's warning. My conditioning at that time was not up to snuff and although I think I had the skill to ride the pace I was going, I did not have the endurance (also cheaped out on the boots). My arms were beginning to pump up and I realized that it was getting harder and harder to get my finger off the bar and onto the brake. You can imagine what happened next. Sounds like you got a lot of good advice from everyone so I dont have much to add. However, the psychological aspect of our sport is a huge one. Maturity and common sense often gets consumed by youthful dreams and over exuberance. Dont let your capacity to self-monitor your psychological and physical state get lost. Oh yeah...and dont fight with your spouse before an event, dont ever watch free-style mx videos with your kids the night before and if youve managed to catch up to that 18 year old on a trick CR250, keep your killer instinct at bay for a half a lap, ride smooth, let your arm pump fade and then make your move. Advice I should have heeded. Good luch and keep on riding!

JP

 

[yz250-effer]

Originally posted by jw380
Sorry to hear about your injury.I hope you wear more than just a jersey and kidney belt,like most people do,in addition to your lack of knee braces.Dig into your savings account and buy the asterisk braces.I've tried the EVS RS6 and AMX5 with miserable results and the asterisks are great.If you're just getting back to riding,you can improve your skills better and safer without the pressure of people pushing you to go over your limits.If you race,make sure you do it for yourself and not because,seemingly,everyone else does it.When I ride,I can go as fast or slow as I feel like(with a 380,it's mostly fast)and when I get tired,I rest and then go again.Ride fast when you're tired and you can find yourself in a wheelchair.Sure,you can get hurt just play riding but just be safe and keep it fun.

Good advice jw, but just so we don't pick on his choice of gear, he did say he was wearing everything except knee braces. Knee braces are still not considered essential equipment as a whole, IMO. Some people swear by them and some don't and it might always be a debate. I personally wear one on my left leg ( no acl ) , but not on my right. The injury I sustained on the left leg would not have been prevented by a knee brace and my orhto doctor will not prescribe them. He says, "If they make YOU feel better, then go ahead and wear them". Not that he is correct, who knows? But it does show that the Medical profession is not convinced that knee braces will reduce or prevent an injury. Force does have to go somewhere? Like I stated, I wear one for an obvious missing acl, but I feel the equipment manufacturers are doing some aggressive marketing to get us all the buy their product. To each his own on knee braces, IMO, I am not trying to start a debate. But it does not sound like jayhawk was skimping on gear at all.
My only advice to Jayhawk would be to be very aware of any small mistakes you make. If you can't correct those mistakes, it is very wise to slow down until you can and get home in one piece. ;)

 

[DirtBikeRider125]

I know your never supposed to blame the bike but i have a KDX too and the same things happen. A lot of the front end is the bikes fault, the front end just isnt planted like moto cross bikes and it takes time to find the right bar set up and to get to know your bike. I have gotten now so that i know what i can and cant do with my front wheel and have to adjust. Just keep riding and practice or try a 125, thats what i did.

 

[Ol'89r]

Originally posted by 23jayhawk
That ability to read the ground is hopefully something that comes with several hundred more trail miles - I've only put in a couple hundred since getting back into it.

;) Good answer, good answer. :thumb:

 

[jmics19067]

being out of shape ,slow and pretty much a chicken when it comes to pushing the envelope the only advice I could give that I believe saves me is that, the first time you say to yourself "whoa that was close" after the fact instead of "ok I see something I should be aware of" before it happens its definately time to slow down. I tend to think my problem in that area is that although the body feels fine running on adrenaline the brain is getting either tired of the concentration or lack of oxygen to to consciensessly realize exactly whats going on around you or is to slow to process the data needed to safely ride within your normal mode. the best answer is to quit smoking, exercise,eat right ,practice etc etc.

it is perfectly good sense to never go faster than what you can see due to blind turns rain fog whatever but it is awful hard to realize than in perfect conditions the brain does get tired and you dont see all that you should. Especially when the body is feeling good running on adrenaline.
Take a good look at your goals, if you race hare scrambles for competition than training should be a big part of your preperation for it if you are only entering for a place to ride that isn't usually open to you then slow down and just enjoy the trail ride. if you are aware of whats going on you pose less of a problem for the true competitors than if you are flailing or worse yet on the ground in a blind spot. Well that is my take on it anyway.