Street rider lookin to go offroad

[CycleRob]

Howdy. I've been riding streetbikes for 6 years; mostly cruisers/tourers, though I did recently start riding a sportbike. I'm starting to think about getting into offroad. I think most of my riding will be trails, though there are tracks around that I might want to try. I don't see myself ever racing moto or other though. I'm 5' 10" and 190lbs. So two questions.

First, size of bike. Should I be looking at 250s or 400s (or something else)?

Second, type of bike. From the information I have pieced together about the offroad styles, I am gravitating to XRs and KLXs rather than CRs or KXs. Is the major difference between these styles suspension (and maybe 2 vs 4 stroke in some sizes)? It seems I'll have more comfort and control on trails with an XR/KLK; but limited jumping ability for a motocross track. Is this correct and are there any other key differences to consider?

Thanks in advance.

 

[dklink2000]

Welcome to the dark side!!!! If your use to cruisers/tourers I would go with a four stroke. Are you going to do trail or mx? For trail i would go with a xr or wr. If you are doing both go with am mx'er. As for a four stroke mx'er, you can pic from a honda cr, yamaha yz or a ktm sx. Good luck!!

 

[mackay]

I would reccomend a 2 stage bike acquisition strategy.
Go buy a Honda XR250...something less than 4 or 5 years old and get out on the trails and to a lesser extent , the track. This machine will accomplish a few things for you,
1) Its not a really expensive bike to buy
2) Its not a really expensive bike to maintain
3) It has decent power
4) It has decent suspension
5) Its handling is second to none
6) Its extremely reliable
7) Its really marketable if you decide to sell it

All these things mean that it will serve you well until you are ready to move to the second stage and that is buying what you really want to drive...and what that is ....who knows......You will find out once you
1) Learn to drive an off road motorcycle
2) see what others in your area ride
3) Try some different machines out
4) Are able to make your own decision about what to get.

My feeling is that for a first bike it should be a relativly mild mannered machine. If you get a whiz bang stump pullin top end screamin lightning fast super scoot you will probably end up in the hospital and sayin stuff like "dirt bikin sucks" :) So just start easy, check the forums here often, ask more questions about riding and look at your first bike as if you were giving advice to a new street rider...the GSXR1100 would not be a good initial bike for a newbie :eek: .
The riding skills here are totally different from street, the terrain is different, the bikes are different. Once you put on the helment the similarities stop.

 

[TWRT]

good response mackay.

don't forget equipment. helmet, googles, gloves and MX boots, at a very minimum. knee/shin guards, chest protector, MX pants and jersey add more protection and comfort.

 

[mackay]

Hey CycleRob, TWRT has an excellent point about equipment...the fact is that EVERYBODY crashed Period!!!!
Two types of dirt riders
1) Those who have crashed
2) Those that will
You will definitly get your moneys worth out of any protective gear that you buy.
Get some pics of whatever you buy and post them for us OK??

 

[CycleRob]

Thanks for the info so far! I appreciate the equipment points; having the right gear makes the ride more enjoyable. I have not looked into chest protector/pants/jersey yet, but plan to start out with boots/gloves/helmet/googles/knees and see where I go from there.

TWRT, I've been looking into places to ride here in NC and it looks like Uwharrie is the best place close to Durham. Any other areas you know of between Durham and Greensboro?

 

[TWRT]

there are a few places. I will PM you w/more information. I am kinda busy now, so I will do it as I have time.

Dave H--

 

[sspmxc400]

I have ridden both street and dirt. I currently ride a FZ1 on street and KTM 400 MXC on dirt. This is a good combination. Recommendations:

* Go 4 stroke - electric start is wonderful
* Go 400 CC or so in size
* Go a couple year old bike to save money to invest in gear (get it all!)
* Get bark busters!

Have Fun!

 

[tigerowner]

One point that wasmissed here is that you have a motorcycle licence. Try a 400-600cc 4stroke and put a plate on it. You will have the best commuter money can buy.

 

[CycleRob]

Thanks again for the info. I'm not really looking for a dual purpose bike or commuter; this can be pure off road. I doubt I'd do motocross, though I did ride mountain bikes and BMX back in the day, so I might be tempted to try a jump here and there (assuming I get comfortable with off road motorcycling).

I've been looking around at used and new bikes, and in the 250 class there are alot of 2 stroke choices and some 4 stroke choices. Some folks suggested I stick with a 4 stroke because I am used to them; but in my searching the only differences I can find folks discussing is in ease of power increase and maintenance. 2 stroke power increases can be bought cheaper than 4 stroke, and 2 stroke engines require more maintenance/attention than 4 stroke. What are the other differences between the two (or is that pretty much it)? It's looking like used 2 strokes will be easier to come by, so I'm trying to better understand what I'd gain or give up going that route.

Thanks again.

 

[sspmxc400]

CycleRob,

2 vs 4 - I can't help on the mechanics but on riding differences(generally speaking! - note: you can modify 2 strokes to overcome some of these traits):

* Engine braking - 2 strokes have virtually none - meaning your break much more often (I do anyway) - 4 stroke will be like your streetbike where you can use the engine to do some breaking

* 4 strokes are more forgiving on the powerband and generally require less shifting (saves energy) - generally easier to climb hills

* 2 strokes (moto) have a more harsh hit in the powerband that can be tougher to handle on tight trails - modifications can be made to soften the powerband

* 2 strokes are lighter and generally quicker out of corners (pending your riding style)

* 4 strokes can be tougher to start (unless you have electric start)

Hope this helps!

 

[mackay]

Allow me to restate....
go for a more mild mannered bike that is rock solid dependable just so you can get out there and try/see what others are using...if your trying to get YOUR ultimate machine for offroading in the first try good luck. The number of options and opinions is staggering and to tell the truth intimidating....
Dont dump a huge wad of cash into anything just yet, get something easy to ride and take care of...work on your riding skills and take some time to explore your options

 

[linusb]

Welcome aboard CycleRob! I'm a recent convert also... let me warn you, dirtbiking is addictive. Even more so than streetbiking....riding on the street rather pales in comparison now that I've been dirtbiking. I thought I'd be a trail rider too, but quickly discovered that the track is where it is at for me.

After reading everything I could, I had decided that an older (88-93) Kawasaki KDX200 or Suzook DR 350 was going to be my first bike. I was thinking I wanted a 2 stroke so I was more interested in the KDX's. I think either of these bikes would be excellent starter bikes. Things didn't go as planned for me and I ended up with my Husky (which I truly love).

Everything that's been posted thus far is 100% true. Riding in the dirt is nothing like riding street. On the street, falling is something that you don't really expect will happen. On the dirt, the expectation of falling is almost guaranteed. (At least in my limited experience!) :eek:

Have fun with your purchase and I hope to meet you sometime. A bunch of us ride at TNT motorsports park just south of Rock Hill, SC. It is excellent as are the group of people you will meet there.

 

[CycleRob]

Thanks all. Mackay, I hear you and I'm not looking to get a "GSXR1100" right out of the chute. ;) I am finding more used CR250s than anything else around here, so I am trying to size up the difference between a two stroke and four stroke. ssp's note is a big help, as I use engine breaking all the time on the road and would probably expect it to be there in the dirt. Also it seems the four stroke is more forgiving, and as you say, might be the mild mannered.

Thanks all!

 

[zio]

One more bit of input.... I personally love the way a 2 stroke motor hits. I had limited streetbike experience (had an old CB550, few rides on a Bonneville 650, etc). The 250 2 stroke is super snappy, i.e. throttle response is instant & they rev super quick. My first ride on a CR250 was frightening, the second less so, and by the third I was addicted. I also spent a summer riding an XR600 & didn't care much for it. Plus, you've probably heard what starting bigbore 4 stroke singles is like (royal pita). I think any experienced streetbiker can get used to a 2 stroke 250's power. And I highly doubt you'll ever really want for more power than that.

Re: maintenance, the newer 4 strokes like the Yamaha YZF's & especially kTm RFS' do require maintenance, like checking the valves. I think in some cases the 2 strokes can acutally require less. It just depends.

The differences between Honda CR250's (or other 250 MX'er) and the XR/KLX type trail bikes can be pretty extensive. For example, the 2 stroke 250's have suspension designed more for big jumps on rockless/rootless mx tracks. Trailbikes have mroe plush suspension that is designed to soak up small bumps/rocks/roots you'd find on the trail. That's what their power is designed for too. They're more mellow, controlable to help you navigate tight trees, downhills, uphills, rocky sections, big holes, logs, you name it. The MX/ers have explosive power to boost you out of turns & get you up to speed for the next double jump.

Lots of folks ride the MX'ers on trails. I did for a while. It's not the most fun way to ride, but you get around. I remember once referring to the forks on my CR250 as broomsticks. If you're confused as to what bikes are built to suit what purposes, here's a basic list of them.

Motocross/Supercross:
Honda CR's
Kawasaki KX's
kTm SX's
Suzuki RM's
Yamaha YZ's

Offroad/Trails
Honda XR's
Kawasaki KLX's & KDX's (KDX's are popular 2 stroke offroad bikes)
kTm EX/C & MC/X 2 & 4 strokes
Suzuki DR's
Yamaha WR's.

 

[truespode]

Damn this is turning into a great thread.

Thanks guys.

Ivan

 

[linusb]

I agree with Zio about the power of a 2 stroke 250 being about right for an experienced street rider. Coming from the street, you'll have good throttle control so the power won't get you in trouble (IMHO). The trick is learning how to ride off-road and maneuvering obstacles, jumps, soft sand, ruts, etc., etc. It looks a lot easier than it is. I thought I could just sit my narrow butt on the seat of the bike and wiz down a trail like I was riding on a road. It didn't take but about 50 feet of trail before I realized I was doing it wrong. :)

 

[Jasle]

Safety gear has been mentiond a little bit here. But I'll add a little. Since your new to dirt I would also reccoment elbow pads. It sounds like your not 18 and just jumpin in. rode street from 16 until 27 and then started dirt. All the little bruises were killer. I crashed often at first but even the little low sides would leave knee's and elbows bruised.
Also the chest protector was critical. Riding down the trail and a tree reaches out and nabs you. The chest protector was great to keep me in one piece.
as far as what bike. I tried the KDX200. Also the xR200. I really liked the KDX. It had plenty of power and was great for the trails. I can ride it at the track at my pace and not have problems. also go check out the kdx forum here and you will get a greater appreciation for the bike. also go check out http://www.dirtrider.net/justkdx/ there is a ton of info on this bike. The kdx has more bottom to mid than your typical mx 2stroke but still has a top end rush of the 2 stroke. Not a super radical suspension but great for trails and adequate for mild track riding.

 

[Joepro9]

Ive been trying to sum all this up, and it looks like your after the cr or mxer, great bike IMO,(i have one lol) But in this case I still agree, experience"biker" or not, learning is diffrent for everone. It might be very esay for you to pick up on how to ride a 250 mxer or ver hard,(too me 2 months to finnaly get it right) Im a honda man, truespode knows this ;) but I am ging to also reccomed a kdx, 200/220. Its a 2 stroke, but not as heavy hit as a 250 mxer. From what I read in other forums, it hands down the best beginners bike. I started on an Xr, and quickly found myself wantting more, but personally, if I started on my cr, I think I would have been in the hospital alot. I also agree about wlbow pad, I found them a little uncomforable at first, but considering the size scar I have in my fore arm/elbow areas from a previous crash, they are well worth it. Also I would put a jersy on the top gear list, esp, of your going to start on some trails. (thorn and jagger bushes hurt!)
ALso if you do start on a 250 mxer, there are ALOT of mods to tame it to make it run like a 4 stroke, but thats the beuaty of the kdx, its like in between!. Do what you think will be best for yourself!

My experience between 4 strokes and 2.
4 stroke:
Better gas milage, no premix
Same amount of matinece just a diffrent kind
Easy to putt and learn on
Mucho fun it the woods
not so fun on jumps, even the little ones i jump
4 stroke races are desinge to run kinda like a 2, but with 4 strokes.
2 strokes:
Awesome power band, and hit
not so great in low rpms
great accelration
good for jumping
good for out running cops ( joking ;))
Alot more "tinkering"
Just overall, FUN TO RIDE

I know alot of this was a repeat but my list would have been empty if I dint :(
Also i agree alot of great advice here. ANd about crashing, people are correct, everone does, I know some kids who go down 2 times a ride, just because they are crazy nuts! me even not being crazy, I find myself in alot of "near" crash situations, so all this crap I have written, I can sum it up in one sentence.

Get the bike you want after all the reccomendation and buy lotsa gear!

 

[BunduBasher]

If you really want to have a great time starting out, then the KDX 220 is probably the bike for you. These bikes can be had cheap, are easy to start, maintain etc, and you get huge bang for your buck. There is tons of aftermarket stuff for this bike, and you can do so much with this bike, great on trails, fun on the MX track.

If you do go 4 stroke, the KLX300 is a great bet, also a DRZ400E from 2000 can be had at a good price.

If you do go 2 stroke, you don't really want to go any bigger than a 250, a 300, 380, or 500 may sound great, but it will be too much in a beginners hands.

Most importantly, get the protective gear, this ain't no joke, add to that a hydration system. If you are well prepared, you will really enjoy your first couple of rides.

 

[k47k]

When i first started dirt riding i went throught the same 2stroke 4stroke dilema.

I went with a 4 stroke because i didnt want the hassel of rebuilding the top end more frequently and messing with premix.

One guy mentioned a Ktm 400 mxc. i will second that recommendation. perfect amount of power.. electric start and is good from MX and trails right out of the box.

I have a 01 ktm 400 mxc that i have setup for woods riding, handgaurds, skidplate etc. but still do some mx on the side. i truly is an awsome bike.

That being said i am selling this bike like new since i am too busy to ride and land closures. email me if interested. summersnausage@hvc.rr.com

 

[rotaxx]

I'm kinda partial to Hondas so bear with me. If you decide 4 stroke, get either an XR250R or XR400R. They make good power, and with regular oil and filter changes are bulletproof and will last forever. Up until recently 4 strokes have been built heavier than the 2 strokes. If you want a bike that you can "flick" thru the corners you'll find the 2 strokes to be more agile. What Zio said about the 2 stroke power ban is true- it's addicting. My wife rode an XR for quite a while, until one day I let her ride my CR. The following week her XR was sold and she bought a CR. It was a smaller cc bike, but it was the same seat height, lighter, faster, more responsive, and better braking. And she really didn't understand the term "hit" until my CR straightened her arms out that day. Now she's addicted to it.
It's true that offroad and onroad riding are two different animals, but alot of the skills you have now will serve you well. A CR250R may not be a good bike for a beginner, but your not a beginner and I think you'll adjust to the differences quickly.
One thing is for sure. NOTHING has improved my onroad riding abilities as much as riding offroad. Just my 2 cents. Let us know what you get.

 

[rotaxx]

Above should read "powerband" not "power ban". A "power ban" would be a bad thing.

 

[woodsy]

If there is one predominate theme here it is the addictiveness of the 2 stroke hit!! There is nothing like it!! I have 2 nephews that are also in your shoes Cyclerob. One of them has been "breaking in" on a KDX200 and the other on my old XR350. Without a doubt the KDX is more fun, more flickable (easily manuvered between the trees, got far more of that great "hit", easier to start, far easier to advance maintain (things harder then air filter/oil changes), both of them tend to fall less on it because it is extremely lighter and handles the sand better!!
Adding oil to the gas is a hassle but like I tell them "better enjoy it cause the EPA is in the process of outlawing it :))" The Honda has been a GREAT bike to have in the family but it is not as user friendly IMO as the little KDX!! Resale value seems to be about the same in our area!!
The KDX is stock, the HOnda has a supertrap on it. The KDX will run right beside the Honda to its top speed then the Honda shows its "dual sport" heritage..
The KDX could be modified cheaply to really bring some life to it (pipe/jetting/air box opened up) and the "addictive hit" would be there (less then a CR250 though)!!
Just thought I would throw my 2 cents into an already GREAT thread.
Woodsy

 

[Syck]

Great thread, im in the same situation. I started riding street a year ago, and want to learn dirt. Im leaning more to track riding/racing, cr250 will prob be my pick. My question is about riding styles. I've heard street riding compare to dirt riding style is totally opposite. When cornering, street riders hangs off and lean w/ the bike, when cornering in dirt you kind of get on top of bike and push the bike under you. And instead of dragging knees on streetbike you stick your leg out? Is this about right? I suppose countersteering is the same when cornering? Also is there anygood online dirtbike resources for newbies like me other than this awsome board? Thx a bunch.